or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Plasma Flat Panel Displays › CES: Panasonic Unveils 2013 TVs; New Smart TV Interface
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

CES: Panasonic Unveils 2013 TVs; New Smart TV Interface - Page 5

post #121 of 516
Wow! That 55VT60 is absolutely beautiful! I love how the stand looks to be made of clear plastic or glass, no more dusting a glossy black stand everday! I'm hoping street price hits around $1, 500 as it looks to be the best blend of size, price and performance with the ZT series sitting above it.
post #122 of 516
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonblair View Post

Any word on which models will motion interpolate to 96frames? The Amazon comparison says that for the 2012 models, the VT50 is the only one that will interpolate 24fps movies to 96 frames. Since HDGuru and Cnet generally hate motion interpolation, they never discuss it in their reviews. I personally love it, so I don't want to buy a set that doesn't have that feature.

I don't understand that - 96Hz isn't motion interpolation, it's less interpolation than 60Hz, which inserts frames into 24p source, no?
post #123 of 516
I believe the 96Hz mode simply repeats the native film frame four times, rather than interpolating additional content. Plasmas don't need motion interpolation since they don't have the motion issues that LCD's suffer from. LCD's need motion interpolation to counteract the sample and hold effect inherent to the technology.
post #124 of 516
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarddTimezz View Post

Wow! That 55VT60 is absolutely beautiful! I love how the stand looks to be made of clear plastic or glass, no more dusting a glossy black stand everday! I'm hoping street price hits around $1, 500 as it looks to be the best blend of size, price and performance with the ZT series sitting above it.

$1500? MAYBE during clearance next year...
post #125 of 516
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Max View Post

I believe the 96Hz mode simply repeats the native film frame four times, rather than interpolating additional content. Plasmas don't need motion interpolation since they don't have the motion issues that LCD's suffer from. LCD's need motion interpolation to counteract the sample and hold effect inherent to the technology.

Correct. 96Hz is 4:4 pulldown (24p sans any frame-rate conversion). On the other hand, almost all (not sure about the U50) of Panasonic's 2012 plasmas have a "Motion Smoother" option that interpolates frames and mimics the soap opera effect of LCDs. Not sure why anyone would ever want to use it, but different strokes.
post #126 of 516
Any more details on the ZT60 series today?

Won't there be some specs/measurements released? Also, do we have any accounts of the ZT vs. VT side by side?
post #127 of 516
Yeah, the ST is 1599.99 MSRP so good luck on the VT being less any time soon.
post #128 of 516
Quote:
Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

Any more details on the ZT60 series today?
Won't there be some specs/measurements released? Also, do we have any accounts of the ZT vs. VT side by side?

Yea, I would love some dimensions. Somebody at ces must have a tape measure!
post #129 of 516
Thread Starter 
Panasonic Debuts World’s First 4K Printed OLED TV, Just Half An Inch Thick

http://techcrunch.com/2013/01/08/panasonic-debuts-worlds-first-4k-printed-oled-tv-just-half-an-inch-thick/
post #130 of 516
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

The VT60 will come in 60" and 65" sizes:
http://shop.panasonic.com/shop/model/TC-P60ZT60
http://shop.panasonic.com/shop/model/TC-P65ZT60

The 65" already got a great review on the link above smile.gif I would have dinged it pretty bad for the reflective edges, the lack of larger sizes, no new filter but Panasonic decided to give itself a 5 out of five.
post #131 of 516
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

If the ZT has Kuro blacks then I suggest that Kuro owners sell their Kuros asap because they are going to be worth much less when the word about the ZT gets around if you know what I mean. The days of a FD151 selling for 3G plus might be over soon.

Meh, if they're really that close to start with, why sell the Kuro anyway if it's operating fine?

That's what it keeps coming down to for me and my 9G Kuro. Sell it for 15-$2000 and get what? A fantastically similar-performing Panasonic for $3500?

Just doesn't make a lot of sense to me...and trust me, I'm TRYING to justify spending the money to get a 65".

Copy that on a let down for the lack of a 70". A much more enticing jump going from 60 to 70" than 65".

Oh well. Sigh.

James
Edited by mastermaybe - 1/8/13 at 1:02pm
post #132 of 516
It's a good thing I have a 50" Kuro...even a 60" Panasonic would be a considerable upgrade if the black levels can keep up.
post #133 of 516
I just read this quote:

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/panasonic-tc-p55zt60/4505-6482_7-35567247.html

" I was also told the ZT60 has a slightly better light-rejecting filter than the VT60, but it was tough to tell any difference in the booth. Suffice to say I'm psyched to get my hands on a shipping sample, which Panasonic says will be in the April/May time frame."
post #134 of 516
Thread Starter 
Form CNET - Promising?

"got a quick look at the ZT60 compared to the VT50 in a dark-room demo at Panasonic's booth, and the new panel did produce slightly deeper black levels than even that vaunted set. Panasonic's rep mentioned the company was still tweaking the software, but the improvements, while subtle, were clearly visible. Blacks didn't look quite as deep the "absolute" seen on OLED TVs, but they were pretty close. I was also told the ZT60 has a slightly better light-rejecting filter than the VT60, but it was tough to tell any difference in the booth. Suffice to say I'm psyched to get my hands on a shipping sample, which Panasonic says will be in the April/May time frame."
post #135 of 516
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Meh, if they're really that close to start with, why sell the Kuro anyway if it's operating fine?
That's what it keeps coming down to for me and my 9G Kuro. Sell it for 15-$2000 and get what? A fantastically similar-performing Panasonic for $3500?
Just doesn't make a lot of sense to me...and trust me, I'm TRYING to justify spending the money to get a 65".
Copy that on a let down for the lack of a 70". A much more enticing jump going from 60 to 70" than 65".
Oh well. Sigh.
James

Just as an FYI - I just got back from handing off my 111fd. Sold it for $1650. Could've gotten more but didn't have packing materials so I had to sell it locally. Bought the 65VT50 for $2534 out the door including taxes. Out of pocket $884. Get free BB ISF (which will probably suck) but if I get a good BB calibrator....a $300 value. Then out of pocket for a calibrated 65 inch is $584. If the ZT is all that, I'll get it and sell the VT. I'm the original buy high, sell low guy.

As we packed up the Elite I couldn't help but comment to myself...man, is that an old school looking panel. I'll miss the Elite but won't miss it's massive heat and it's 2008 appearance. I have to use the LR as my HT area so I like that the VT looks super sexy.

I'm not asking anyone to take my path, just defining it for edification purposes.
post #136 of 516
Would it be safe to say the black levels of the VT50 are at the point already that further improvements will be small? If the OLED with absolute blacks only looks a little better than the ZT60? The VT models are a good bargain, I would think.
post #137 of 516
^I don't think so...perhaps when the 500M/100FD black levels are reached, we can all safely say that (but even with some viewing scenarios/content, there is room for visible improvement).

Wow, Glashub, not bad. I wouldn't dream of shipping one due to the fear of breakage, though I do have the original packaging for my 111FD.
post #138 of 516
Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd68 View Post

Would it be safe to say the black levels of the VT50 are at the point already that further improvements will be small? If the OLED with absolute blacks only looks a little better than the ZT60? The VT models are a good bargain, I would think.


You have two somewhat different situations.

In a totally dark room (think bat cave) even a slight difference in black level when compared side to side will show up. But turn on some room light and you won't be able to tell the difference. It's how our eyes work.

The other situation is in a moderately well lit room, which tech has a darker looking black. In a bright room, my 65VT50 has better blacks than my Pioneer 6070 did.
post #139 of 516
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Meh, if they're really that close to start with, why sell the Kuro anyway if it's operating fine?
That's what it keeps coming down to for me and my 9G Kuro. Sell it for 15-$2000 and get what? A fantastically similar-performing Panasonic for $3500?
Just doesn't make a lot of sense to me...and trust me, I'm TRYING to justify spending the money to get a 65".
Copy that on a let down for the lack of a 70". A much more enticing jump going from 60 to 70" than 65".
Oh well. Sigh.
James

This is my dilemma as well. I really want a 65 inch but if it's no better than my Kuro, it's hard to justify spending the cash.
post #140 of 516
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

^I don't think so...perhaps when the 500M/100FD black levels are reached, we can all safely say that (but even with some viewing scenarios/content, there is room for visible improvement).
Wow, Glashub, not bad. I wouldn't dream of shipping one due to the fear of breakage, though I do have the original packaging for my 111FD.

Thanks Vinnie. You should be able to get even more for yours if its in good shape like I suspect it is. But you'd have to insure it and ship it.

Just as an FYI as we all know the 9G blacks are the best. Here's what I like about the VT...the whites look really white and the colors look super accurate and rich without looking over saturated. Not really good at the jargon/tech so don't hold my feet to a fire but this is what I see.
post #141 of 516
I guess I can call myself lucky in a way, I never owned a Pioneer. That would have spoiled me! I can say the VT50 is a big step up from my GT20, much better all around, especially dark scenes..
post #142 of 516
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

Form CNET - Promising?
"got a quick look at the ZT60 compared to the VT50 in a dark-room demo at Panasonic's booth, and the new panel did produce slightly deeper black levels than even that vaunted set. Panasonic's rep mentioned the company was still tweaking the software, but the improvements, while subtle, were clearly visible. Blacks didn't look quite as deep the "absolute" seen on OLED TVs, but they were pretty close. I was also told the ZT60 has a slightly better light-rejecting filter than the VT60, but it was tough to tell any difference in the booth. Suffice to say I'm psyched to get my hands on a shipping sample, which Panasonic says will be in the April/May time frame."

If they're saying it's close to OLED, then this is touch 500m territory.

There are noticeable differences between the 500 and the 111, but they would also be considered subtle. And they're still working on it...
post #143 of 516
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatuglyguy View Post

Correct. 96Hz is 4:4 pulldown (24p sans any frame-rate conversion). On the other hand, almost all (not sure about the U50) of Panasonic's 2012 plasmas have a "Motion Smoother" option that interpolates frames and mimics the soap opera effect of LCDs. Not sure why anyone would ever want to use it, but different strokes.
So they have frame interpolation on all models (except maybe the U series)? Amazon's comparison table says that the VT50 is the only version that has this. I've been overlooking the ST and GT series because Amazon's info page said they lacked this feature. It's a must-have feature for me, as I personally love the effect. I have them cranked to maximum on my Samsung 55D8000 and Panasonic AE7000u projector. (I still haven't gone to see "The Hobbit," as I really didn't like any of the "Lord of the Rings" movies, but I'm very interested to see the high frame rate in theaters.) Which also leads me to ask (off topic) -- Do all of you motion interpolation haters who say that it destroys the "director's intent" plan to crank your frame interpolation to maximum when you watch "The Hobbit" on blu-ray? wink.gif
post #144 of 516
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

Form CNET - Promising?
"got a quick look at the ZT60 compared to the VT50 in a dark-room demo at Panasonic's booth, and the new panel did produce slightly deeper black levels than even that vaunted set. Panasonic's rep mentioned the company was still tweaking the software, but the improvements, while subtle, were clearly visible. Blacks didn't look quite as deep the "absolute" seen on OLED TVs, but they were pretty close. I was also told the ZT60 has a slightly better light-rejecting filter than the VT60, but it was tough to tell any difference in the booth. Suffice to say I'm psyched to get my hands on a shipping sample, which Panasonic says will be in the April/May time frame."

I just want to know the actual differences between the ZT and VT series (other than this filter). I am ready to be done with my LHX55.
post #145 of 516
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonblair View Post

So they have frame interpolation on all models (except maybe the U series)? Amazon's comparison table says that the VT50 is the only version that has this. I've been overlooking the ST and GT series because Amazon's info page said they lacked this feature. It's a must-have feature for me, as I personally love the effect. I have them cranked to maximum on my Samsung 55D8000 and Panasonic AE7000u projector. (I still haven't gone to see "The Hobbit," as I really didn't like any of the "Lord of the Rings" movies, but I'm very interested to see the high frame rate in theaters.) Which also leads me to ask (off topic) -- Do all of you motion interpolation haters who say that it destroys the "director's intent" plan to crank your frame interpolation to maximum when you watch "The Hobbit" on blu-ray? wink.gif


Yep. Amazon lists the VT50 as the only model with 96Hz playback of 24p content, which is true. I think you're confusing it by equating a higher refresh rate (96Hz here) with the "soap opera" look. The look you're going for is not a direct consequence of higher refresh rates of film-based (24p) content (in this case, 96Hz, or 240Hz in the case of your D8K), rather the result of interpolated (approximated) frames and/or the removal of judder from the image.

So, let's take a 24p source, a Blu-Ray. Playing said source on any model below the VT50 will mean that at the TV's native refresh rate (60Hz), it can not show said 24p content frame-for-frame, since 24 does not divide evenly into 60. As such, the display must engage in 2:3 pulldown, which can introduce unwanted motion artifacts or hitching/stuttering into said source. (For a better explanation on this, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine#2:3_pulldown )

The VT50 is able to natively refresh at 96Hz, only meaning that it is capable of displaying 24p sources without engaging in 2:3 pulldown. It only has to show each original frame four times without any conversion (4:4 since 24 divides evenly into 96 four times). This feature is meant to preserve the intended look of things shot natively in 24P, judder included. Generally, in the US, this feature has been reserved for Panasonic's flagship plasmas, although it remains to be see if both the ZT and the VT60 will support it for 2013. other implementations of this exist, like 3:3 pulldown (72Hz). 5:5 pulldown (120Hz), and 10:10 pulldown (240Hz). 2012 U, UT, and ST models also support 2:2 pulldown (48Hz), but it flickers quite a bit.

What you're looking for is a mode that removes judder from the image by interpolating frames rather than repeating original source frames. It would appear after a quick google search that the 2012 UT, ST, GT, and VT all have a dejudder option called Motion Smoother (the U50 does not). It's located in the advanced picture settings menu, and has four modes: Off, Weak, Medium, and Strong depending on your preference -- this will provide you with the intended look you're going for. The only caveat being that Motion Smoother is not able to be turned on when using THX picture modes on GT and VT models. I'm not an authority on MEMC/Judder reduction expert by any means, so parts of my posts may be inaccuarte or worded incorrectly, but I am just posting from my understanding of the matter. In short, any of the 2012 1080p 3D Pannys will suffice for you. Hope this helped tongue.gif
post #146 of 516
The new ZT60 is not borderless is it? Panny still can't get over that chrome edge. Why can't they just make it black all over? I wish they have a 42" version for my bedroom!

So the VT was upgraded to the ZT, the GT upgraded to the VT and the ST upgraded to the GT but is still named ST while the GT is taken out of the series, correct?

post #147 of 516
Good to see Panny bring the Z series back.

I have the P54Z1 and it has been an awesome panel. Great picture and I like the look (brushed aluminum).

The part that makes peoples jaws drop is the wireless aspect of this set. Full 1080 and audio beemed in my instance through a 3 inch solid wood top to the panel, no wires run. Is there any mention of this for the new Z series?
post #148 of 516
Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire415 View Post

The new ZT60 is not borderless is it? Panny still can't get over that chrome edge. Why can't they just make it black all over? I wish they have a 42" version for my bedroom!
So the VT was upgraded to the ZT, the GT upgraded to the VT and the ST upgraded to the GT but is still named ST while the GT is taken out of the series, correct?

The St is the ST. The GT is gone. The VT is the VT. The ZT is new. Everyone is so cynical about this, I don't get it!
post #149 of 516
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speakerphile View Post

The St is the ST. The GT is gone. The VT is the VT. The ZT is new. Everyone is so cynical about this, I don't get it!

Sad the GT is gone but I would imagine that it is due to sales of the ST eating away at the GT model. I thought for the price difference the GT50 was a good value with a better look and a faster chip set inside to handle things.

So you keep your ST to placate the low end buyer who wants a big screen but doesn't want to pay too much and still deliver a quality image.

86 the GT because they weren't flying off the shelves and it gives you more breathing room between the ST and VT in picture quality and features for the $.

Offer up the ZT to AV snobs that will spend the dough to have the best and for bragging rights in the spec department.
post #150 of 516
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speakerphile View Post

The St is the ST. The GT is gone. The VT is the VT. The ZT is new. Everyone is so cynical about this, I don't get it!


Keeping in mind that pricing for the VT has not been announced (or has it?), and the ST60 is a little bit cheaper than the ST50 and if the VT60 pricing is about the same as the VT50, Panasonic will have 2 series, VT and ZT, that are very expensive and will probable not be more than niche sellers. Panasonic must figure that the price point of the GT was not good enough and will push the ST to the lower end of the market and the VT and ZT to "high end" market. That is unless they end up having to push the VT to the GT price points.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Plasma Flat Panel Displays
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Plasma Flat Panel Displays › CES: Panasonic Unveils 2013 TVs; New Smart TV Interface