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CES: Panasonic Unveils 2013 TVs; New Smart TV Interface - Page 12

post #331 of 516
1/13/13 at 10:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

I dont buy $5000 for a second.

You think it can be more ? My guess is very close to 5K. One question mark is if the ZT will be widely available , like the VT, or will only be sold by very few stores. Not all sets can be bought by half the MSRP, like the Panasonics now. If the ZT becomes a niche market, expect to pay big bucks for it.
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post #332 of 516
1/13/13 at 10:07am
Same was said about their 2012 stance on VT's, and they werent that hard to get, but the price stayed a little higher. With the VT being the middle man, I see a lower price and the ZT filling in the higher tier. Which means I dont think anywhere near close to $5000. Lets face it, its a 65" plasma, nothing special there, and no matter what panasonic says about a new panel, this is played every year and the improvements are incremental.

It's what would have been a VT with a new name, if they go over $4000, they can keep it.
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post #333 of 516
1/13/13 at 10:16am
Here's my guess:

65ZT60 - $4499
65VT60 - $3499
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post #334 of 516
1/13/13 at 10:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HAmmer32261 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatuglyguy View Post

I wouldn't count on it. For what it's worth I never used any of the smart features or the touch remote on mine after the first week of ownership.

Same here, to me all those apps,voice commands,touch screens ect... are basically useless to me

I don't use anything other then NETFLIX. Never even put the batteries in the touch remote.
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post #335 of 516
1/13/13 at 10:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TWD View Post

Here's my guess:

65ZT60 - $4499
65VT60 - $3499

Only thing I dont buy there is where is your middle tier, the difference between a VT and ST is going to be ridiculous. I still think the VT comes down, maybe it gets neutered on features.
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post #336 of 516
1/13/13 at 10:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Same was said about their 2012 stance on VT's, and they werent that hard to get, but the price stayed a little higher. With the VT being the middle man, I see a lower price and the ZT filling in the higher tier. Which means I dont think anywhere near close to $5000. Lets face it, its a 65" plasma, nothing special there, and no matter what panasonic says about a new panel, this is played every year and the improvements are incremental.

It's what would have been a VT with a new name, if they go over $4000, they can keep it.
The difference with this year is they introduced a new high tier panel, something that doesn't happen ever year.
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post #337 of 516
1/13/13 at 11:11am
"Just about" every thing said in this thread is speculation, hope, or a guess. Until they are released to the public and tested. Then it becomes a fact. With this being said everyone is entitled to there own opinion/interpretation, so post away biggrin.gif
Cleveland Plasma Insider
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post #338 of 516
1/13/13 at 11:53am
Code:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

"Just about" every thing said in this thread is speculation, hope, or a guess. Until they are released to the public and tested. Then it becomes a fact. With this being said everyone is entitled to there own opinion/interpretation, so post away biggrin.gif

I know but it is fun.
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post #339 of 516
1/13/13 at 12:01pm
Thread Starter 
^^^^^^
Ah Chris, this happens every year. Soon there will be the annual anticipation thread! Off topic but why is it CNET and all of the reviewers I read never test for buzzing and fan noise?

Panny seems to at odds with itself. Touting its 3D tech and the ability to scale and bring OLED to market cheaply while touting stunning new plasma tech. If they price the ZT at 5-6K why pay that when Panny has already stated they are near to bringing OLED to market cheaply? See what I mean?
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post #340 of 516
1/13/13 at 12:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Avarice_ View Post

If it beats the black levels of 9g Kuros, I'll be in....I've had a 9g Kuro for three and a half years; biding my time for something bigger and blacker tongue.gif

I don't know about blacker than 9G Kuro (I own a couple of 9G Kuro), but it is at least as black as the 9G Kuro, 3,000 Hz FFD (the Kuro runs at 800 FFD), plus being lighter and about 80% more energy efficient that of 9G Kuro. Furthermore, the ZT series employs the EXACT same single-sheet-filter technology used in the 9G Kuro (this info obtained from a Panasonic engineer friend of mine who used to work together with me while we were at Pioneer several years ago).
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post #341 of 516
1/13/13 at 1:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

I don't know about blacker than 9G Kuro (I own a couple of 9G Kuro), but it is at least as black as the 9G Kuro, 3,000 Hz FFD (the Kuro runs at 800 FFD), plus being lighter and about 80% more energy efficient that of 9G Kuro. Furthermore, the ZT series employs the EXACT same single-sheet-filter technology used in the 9G Kuro (this info obtained from a Panasonic engineer friend of mine who used to work together with me while we were at Pioneer several years ago).
Good to hear versus the Kuro. Sounds like one won't be able to easily differentiate black levels between 9G and the ZT at the very least.
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post #342 of 516
1/13/13 at 3:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

The difference with this year is they introduced a new high tier panel, something that doesn't happen ever year.

Man, you guys buy into this every year, its almost comical. VT30, VT50, etc...
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post #343 of 516
1/13/13 at 3:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Man, you guys buy into this every year, its almost comical. VT30, VT50, etc...

Its not comical. Its fact...some of us have seen it in person. Its a whole new ballgame.
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post #344 of 516
1/13/13 at 4:14pm
Thread Starter 
^^^^^^

Until its discovered it buzzes or that there are other issues like it costs way to much with OLED coming very soon. Or until 2014. Every year the hype gets to heart threatening levels. The VT was called stunning, unbelievable, inky blacks, rivals Kuro...for exactly one year. It is comical because we including me act like trained seals for what the manufactures always call the next greatest thing.
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post #345 of 516
1/13/13 at 4:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

^^^^^^
Ah Chris, this happens every year. Soon there will be the annual anticipation thread! Off topic but why is it CNET and all of the reviewers I read never test for buzzing and fan noise?

Panny seems to at odds with itself. Touting its 3D tech and the ability to scale and bring OLED to market cheaply while touting stunning new plasma tech. If they price the ZT at 5-6K why pay that when Panny has already stated they are near to bringing OLED to market cheaply? See what I mean?

"Cheap" OLED will be MAYBE $9k by the end of the year. It will also only be available in limited sizes, i.e. not 65". Their play is not at all "at odds". The 65ZT will be closer to $5k than it will be to $4k.
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post #346 of 516
1/13/13 at 4:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by yamvmax View Post

Its not comical. Its fact...some of us have seen it in person. Its a whole new ballgame.

And we hear this every year, just sayin...

Im going radio silence for now, I should know better than to get involved in the annual January drooling and high fives.
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post #347 of 516
1/13/13 at 4:43pm
Not sure you understand the definition of irony. But regardless, the bottom line is that trying to make any kind of judgement about black levels from a picture of a different device than the one you are viewing it on is not only not "adding any value" to the discussion, but is down right silly. The number of issues besides the limitations of the display you are viewing it on is not limited to: compression of the camera, camera processing, exposure time, internet compression, lossy encoding, camera sensor light sensitivity, etc.... Once you add in the fact that you are viewing the image on a device with worse black level and contrast than the picture you are trying to judge, and you have basically gone into pure fantasy land in thinking you can tell anything about how that display peforms relative to any other's black level. Acknowledging the amazing amount of misjudgement in your attempt at "adding value" would be a good place to start to try and regain credibility. Not to mention wanting to see something that isn't there (ZT not being as black as your Kuro), but that is a topic for another day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

Here's irony: you have contributed nothing to the thread except to show up and try to slam me for trying to add value. I owned 2 Kuros and now own a VT 50. I included caveats in the post you reference which ironically enough you didn't read apparently.
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post #348 of 516
1/13/13 at 5:20pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKnobber View Post

Not sure you understand the definition of irony. But regardless, the bottom line is that trying to make any kind of judgement about black levels from a picture of a different device than the one you are viewing it on is not only not "adding any value" to the discussion, but is down right silly. The number of issues besides the limitations of the display you are viewing it on is not limited to: compression of the camera, camera processing, exposure time, internet compression, lossy encoding, camera sensor light sensitivity, etc.... Once you add in the fact that you are viewing the image on a device with worse black level and contrast than the picture you are trying to judge, and you have basically gone into pure fantasy land in thinking you can tell anything about how that display peforms relative to any other's black level. Acknowledging the amazing amount of misjudgement in your attempt at "adding value" would be a good place to start to try and regain credibility. Not to mention wanting to see something that isn't there (ZT not being as black as your Kuro), but that is a topic for another day.


You're right...I don't understand the meaning of the word "ironic"...how have I ever become so successful in so many areas of my life when people like you are so obviously superior. I'm humbled. That said, let's try this; you're being mean spirited and confrontational from your safe little underweb world of anonymity. What's really going on with you? Was my post that powerful as to require your focus on it's inaccuracies?

Be well. This business of living is hard on all of us.
Edited by Glashub - 1/13/13 at 5:33pm
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post #349 of 516
1/13/13 at 5:21pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speakerphile View Post

"Cheap" OLED will be MAYBE $9k by the end of the year. It will also only be available in limited sizes, i.e. not 65". Their play is not at all "at odds". The 65ZT will be closer to $5k than it will be to $4k.

You'll probably prove to be right.
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post #350 of 516
1/13/13 at 5:26pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

And we hear this every year, just sayin...

Im going radio silence for now, I should know better than to get involved in the annual January drooling and high fives.

I come to this forum and I feel the impulse...I have to get a ZT60 now. Then I sit in front of my out dated, humble 65VT50 and I think....this is a nice TV. I miss my Kuro's but I don't miss the 50" and I don't want to pay about $3500 for a 3-4 year old Kuro 60". Those of you with the 151 or 141, enjoy; you're lucky you don't have to participate in the madness....you already own the benchmark.

I'll see you guys in about April when the ZT is out and will probably buy one next fall when it's been vetted by owners. Until then I'll struggle by with the VT50. wink.gif
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post #351 of 516
1/13/13 at 5:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Man, you guys buy into this every year, its almost comical. VT30, VT50, etc...
I haven't bought into anything...in fact, I was fairly confident the product deliveries from the last 2 years that you've wasted time listing were not going to measure up. Time has marched on. Growing a little wearisome of your snark.
Edited by vinnie97 - 1/13/13 at 5:50pm
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post #352 of 516
1/13/13 at 5:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

I come to this forum and I feel the impulse...I have to get a ZT60 now. Then I sit in front of my out dated, humble 65VT50 and I think....this is a nice TV. I miss my Kuro's but I don't miss the 50" and I don't want to pay about $3500 for a 3-4 year old Kuro 60". Those of you with the 151 or 141, enjoy; you're lucky you don't have to participate in the madness....you already own the benchmark.

I'll see you guys in about April when the ZT is out and will probably buy one next fall when it's been vetted by owners. Until then I'll struggle by with the VT50. wink.gif

How ever will you cope? eek.gif...Enjoy your TV, while us mere plebes duke it out in the trenches!
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post #353 of 516
1/13/13 at 5:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

^^^^^^

Until its discovered it buzzes or that there are other issues like it costs way to much with OLED coming very soon. Or until 2014. Every year the hype gets to heart threatening levels. The VT was called stunning, unbelievable, inky blacks, rivals Kuro...for exactly one year. It is comical because we including me act like trained seals for what the manufactures always call the next greatest thing.

That's never been my findings. Even without comparing the calibrated VT50 vs Kuro, I can immediately tell that the VT50 is only ALMOST as good as the 8G Kuro, but this ZT black level is indistinguishable from the 9G Kuro (which is 500% blacker than the 8G Kuro, which is still blacker than the current VT50)
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post #354 of 516
1/13/13 at 6:33pm
More first impressions from S+V...

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/blog/2013/01/12/ces-2013-panasonic-2013-zt60-vs-2012-vt50
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post #355 of 516
1/13/13 at 6:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Netrat View Post

and the TH Professional series..is it still the Panasonic flagship?

The TH series is basically an electronic sign, not a flagship. Several years ago they were preferred over the consumer models because they had more picture adjustments, but nowadays the mid-to-high end consumer models have better picture quality and the TH models have been de-contented.
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post #356 of 516
1/13/13 at 7:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speakerphile View Post

More first impressions from S+V...

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/blog/2013/01/12/ces-2013-panasonic-2013-zt60-vs-2012-vt50
thanks
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post #357 of 516
1/14/13 at 5:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

That's never been my findings. Even without comparing the calibrated VT50 vs Kuro, I can immediately tell that the VT50 is only ALMOST as good as the 8G Kuro, but this ZT black level is indistinguishable from the 9G Kuro (which is 500% blacker than the 8G Kuro, which is still blacker than the current VT50)

Couldn't agree more. Great post. People will be shocked when these panels come out. I don't care how much they will cost. The blacks looked like my old sony CRT.
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post #358 of 516
1/14/13 at 5:59am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by yamvmax View Post

Couldn't agree more. Great post. People will be shocked when these panels come out. I don't care how much they will cost. The blacks looked like my old sony CRT.

Pioneer marketed the 9G as 80% blacker than then the 8G not 500%. Easily researched.
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post #359 of 516
1/14/13 at 7:13am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by yamvmax View Post

Why such a tool? Are you trying to justify your recent purchase of a vt? Whatever....you WILL regret it when you see the zt AND Sammy f8500 in person.

I don't understand why you're upset. If you call a post great, it should be accurate. The 9G was never marketed as 500% blacker than the 8G. Think about that number for a minute...500%. I owned an 8G and a 9G and 80% seemed about right. I will own a ZT60 if it is all that you proclaim it to be.
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post #360 of 516
1/14/13 at 7:41am
500% blacker....WHAT DOES IT MEAN?eek.gif
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