Samsung F8000 -- 2013 Flagship Models - Page 42

Keep in mind that, more than likely, the "Eco Sensor" or whatever it's called, was engaged. I've found that in two F8000s I've played with. When the Eco is disengaged, there is a huge increase in 'pop'. With that said, I suspect that most people calibrating the display will dial that 'pop' back down to much tamer levels.

But my point is that I'm not sure how much less pop there really is relative to the E8000 once you play with the settings. It may be more a case of Samsung wanting the 'out of box' experience to be more to the liking of the videophile.

Well although I know what you're saying, let's be fair. The majority of movies are shot in such a way that they don't come close to depicting 'real life'. Between the endless 'stylized' color palettes and the other weird things that directors do to deviate from a 'real life' look, if someone prefers their picture altered somewhat from 'director's intent', I say live and let live. If the guy prefers to set his display so that instead of having a hue that already deviates markedly from 'accurate' color per director's intent, his deviates even more markedly, so what? It may not be what you or I prefer, but I can certainly hear someone say "Hell, the director's colors are already screwed up, so why should I care about my color deviating from 'accurate'". As long as they enjoy the picture, it's great.

Buzzaard, I question #1. Why is it a given that a high end plasma will 'beat the crap' out of the F8000 when the black levels haven't even been measured yet? This is far from a scientific approach to display evaluation. The reviews I've read thus far tell a different story (whether you believe them or not is something else). I'll tell you this, I've seen the F8000 is several different settings (though admittedly not yet in a truly dark environment). From what I've seen, I doubt that any high end plasma will 'beat the crap' out of the F8000 on black levels, just as no high end plasma can beat the crap out of my current LED, the Elite. Now it's quite possible once the lights are out I might be surprised and find the F8000's black levels really aren't that great. It's certainly possible, but I doubt it.

What I do believe is that many of the better LEDs can beat the crap out of any plasma from the standpoint of luminance values and I do think that counts too. This is what makes the F8500 so intriguing, the potential for the best of both worlds in a plasma. The F8500 may be the display that brings me back to the world of plasma, but I doubt any other plasma will. The Elite's ability, unmatched by any plasma, to impart such a real life feel to full-screen bright scenes and still retain exceptional black levels and shadow detail, has truly spoiled me. If the F8500 lives up to the hype, for the first time even LED lovers will have a choice to have the virtues of an LED wrapped up in a plasma.

But I see too many people making the assumption that no LED can even compete with plasmas on black levels. This is just false. Sure, if you take the black levels of the native panel and refuse to engage whatever dimming approach the manufacturer has incorporated, whether it be a good implementation of edge dimming as the F8000 apparently has or full array like the Sony 929/950 & Sharp Elite, then it's true. But hell, those dimming approaches are there for a reason, to be used.

Isn't it a shame that manufacturers don't ship these displays already calibrated? They certainly know the values required to bring it to close conformity to Rec709 and I refuse to believe that it would be an extra expense to do that. I'm not talking about hand tuning every display off the line, but merely inputting the values on all the displays that get them all close. It's not a case of needing to have the display 'stand out' from the rest of the displays on the wall with their super blue/whites, they can have that setting too. But what's so difficult to implement a setting that if the user so chooses, brings them in close conformity to standard? Granted unit to unit variation will make some units deviate more than others from the standard, but you can bring them into the ballpark. At that point a user might say 'Hey, close enough!' and save $300-$500. If he wants the display 'spot on', he can still call his favorite ISF tech and have him over for drinks.

I think some manufacturers are doing a better job of that than others. The F8000's out-of-box colors seem to be better than the E8000's in that regard...at least to my eyes.

All the sets that I have that with the THX settings look "close enough" to me. I never even got my vt50 calbrated because everyrhing looked so nice out of the box. I agree there is no reason all TV's cant ship with a similar setting.

thanks for greystone website.
i just walked in to the BB with a copy of the price from greystone appliance, got BB to price match it. sweet. thanks for the info..

i am going to down load the Calibration ISO from this forum ..
here are some pictures






Edit:: can someone point me to the calibration ISO that AVS forums offers?? i cant seem to find it. i dont know what its called. if i did i will do a search for it.
Edited by Lwood - 3/14/13 at 9:00pm

Unfortunately, I do not think that an accurately calibrated set would sell the television. The average consumer doesn't know what calibration is and would probably find an accurately calibrated set to be dim and bland, especially compared to other sets in the store. What does sell to the average consumer are televisions that are extremely bright and vibrant with saturated colors (i.e. "Vibrant" mode). When looking at a wall of tvs the uneducated consumer is going to be drawn the the brightest and most colorful model with the thinnest bezel and that is what Samsung has mastered.

this for AGUSTINFOREVER
yes the F8000 has smart LED

thank u , man, it was getting me crazy ( I was about to kill my english teacher 'cause nobody understood my question. I'm glad to see that the american version of the f8000 has not dropped out the smart led feature ). Now, we're all waiting for the pic of the movie mode whith the lights off in order to prove if samsung could, at last , get rid of clouding !. thanks a lot over and over again....

I forgot to tell u, why don't you see the review of the f8000 at avforum : http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Samsung-UE-F8000-55F8000-55-47F800-47-75F8000-75-Inch-3D-LED-LCD-Smart-TV-Review_491/Review.html , there, all you have to do is to take a look of the f8000's menu pics ( by making them double click ) and try some settings as : white balance ( 25-25-25-33-25), etc.

Pdta : I guess cinema black is under the smart led , isn't it ?

Turn off the automotion plus unless you like the soap opera effect ( or choose " clear " ).
Edited by AGUSTINFOREVER - 3/14/13 at 10:36pm

i just try out the avengers movie.
i am getting some kind of trace from the characters .. i dont know what its called.
when a character moves fast he or she will live a slight trace. how do i get rid of that??

Turn off the Auto Motion Plus or select clear option.
Turn off the Digital Clean View and MPEG Noise Filter too.
By the way...Congratulations!!! Nice tv
Edited by agkss - 3/14/13 at 10:21pm

Hear hear. I don't understand this either.

Many people in these forums copy settings by cnet review or a calibrator like d-nice and prefer them over the mfgr's. I did too and damn if it didn't make my vt50 look better. (maybe it's just the placebo effect, but really, it did look better) To me, this should not happen. Due to variance in production and viewing environment, I can see why a calibrator may improve a specific unit, but if people can improve their sets by applying calibration done on some other random set, that implies the mfgr doesn't know how (or care to) calibrate their own display. They employ video technicians, don't they?

The argument that displays are calibrated for the store or to appeal to the average viewer only makes sense if TVs only come with one display mode, but they don't. Even the cheapest models now have at least three modes, eg, Dynamic, Standard, and Movie. Many sets even have a selectable store mode and home mode.

What's the excuse for a set costing thousands of dollars to not have pretty much spot on colors in best mode? Is this some kind of collusion to keep calibrators employed? (ok, I'm kidding. Maybe.)

Well, there would first have to be a 12k OLED set to buy. Then we can only hope there will be many people with unsound mind willing to gobble it up, for the advancement of science.

thanks. for the info..
could you tell me where to find the calibration ISO file that AVS forum offers. ??

Here's the link: http://www.avsforum.com/t/948496/avs-hd-709-blu-ray-mp4-calibration

Did switching those things off do the trick then?

I agree 100%. That's why I said they can still have that torch setting, but simply provide the videophile with the option to change that setting to a calibrated setting (within the obvious panel to panel variances).

I don't disagree with anything you said Mark. I'm just basing my comments on the F8000s I've seen thus far in somewhat subdued lighting. As I said, it's quite possible that in a dark room the blacks don't hold up as they appear to in the somewhat subdued lighting I've seen. Time will tell.

I was never interested in the E8000 for the reasons you stated. But it seems to me Samsung has done something different in the F version. What that is, I have no idea. I'm simply saying that what I've seen in terms of black levels thus far, is impressive...at least in the ambient lighting I've seen them in. Certainly in this lighting I've not seen any plasma that would blow the F8000 out of the water.

Will this be the case when the lights go down? Maybe not, we shall see. But wouldn't it be great if Samsung has found a way to produce impressive black levels in an edge lit display?

Great point you made here. As a perfect example, how many films lately have been getting their color timing altered for it's Blu-Ray release? Many, and there are active discussions in several forums I've visited where this is discussed, and disliked by many people. Aliens, Night of the Living Dead (remake), The Matrix, Masters of the Universe, The Terminator, Lord of the Rings triogy, the upcoming Lifeforce (color timing changes already announced), and the list goes on and on. Too many directors are mucking with the color timing "because they can", and many people hate this unnatural "comic-book" style of color. Die Hard 4 was completely tinted green for the whole film, even it's theatrical release, for no apparent reason.

Myself, I prefer natural skin tones, unless there's a reasonable reason for the deviation. I hate it when people look jaundiced in a film, or blue, or green, or orange. I don't mind a little added color for mood, etc., but when colors start looking overly exaggerated, I reach for the remote to dial back the color saturation. So I totally understand how some people, like myself, aren't too concerned with the rec 709 standard that some people insist the tv should be calibrated to. Yeah, I want white whites, but I also want skin tones to look reasonably accurate.
Edited by eagle_2 - 3/15/13 at 6:17am

I agree - one of the things I never understood with plasma owners is how they endlessly brag about the black levels, and pretend the ABL doesn't exist (for those who are unfamiliar, ABL is a system that currently all plasmas have that reduces screen brightness, thus creating a very dim and murky bright screen). I've tried 2 plasmas in the past, a Samsung and Panasonic, and other issues aside, it was the ABL that ultimately drove me away. Plasmas have great blacks, but lousy whites once they take up a certain percentage of the screen real-estate. I got sick of seeing dimmed, murky whites, and dim beach scenes that were meant to be bright and sunny.

I think this is an area that the F8000 should excel at - the ability to display dark blacks and bright whites at the same time. I'm just hoping that CE-Dimming isn't an issue this year. Last year it was dreadful - every time the screen got dark the auto-dimming darkened the entire screen even further, to "enhance" black levels, and dimming any whites that were in the scene along with it. I really hope that's not an issue this year.

I've always thought that. Why can't they just ship the sets already adjusted to be closer to a decent calibration? Last year, the out-of-the-box settings were enough to make an owner immediately box it back up and return it - dynamic mode, AMP on , sharpness and color saturation through the roof. It was awful. I thought the THX setting was a great idea with the Panasonics - a pre-calibrated setting that gets you really close to a great picture immediately. I guess Samsung doesn't want to pay the licensing fees to carry THX.

There's no reason they can't have a "THX" type mode for videophiles, and still have a "dynamic" setting for displays at Best Buy.

I believe you'e correct about their line of thinking regarding the store displays - but I wonder if that's really what would happen? People do go to the theatre. People know what a normal looking image is (when the director isn't going nuts with stylized colors). Maybe people would be more responsive to a good-looking calibrated set than these stores give them credit for?

Lwood, can you try the web browser to see how fast browsing is? Also if it has pinch to zoom and can you read the text clearer? Thanks.

yes it work thanks.


thanks for the link. i didnt know the name . so i didnt know what to look for.

yes it did.

it has clear text. out of the box. but i changed some setting now the text is kind of blurry . i dont know what made it do that i am trying to figure out the setting.
for the browsing and zoom i will check after work.

Amesome pics., that Table is perfect for the Stand.

I'm not so sure about that. When the average person is looking at a wall of displays on a typical showroom floor, they are immediately drawn to the brightest, sharpest one with the most saturated colors. It's simple physiology. Our brains are wired to think that something with more "pop" is better. I can almost guarantee that if a set shipped from the factory in a mode that was close to the rec 709 standard, it would sell terribly, at least at a store like Best Buy or Costco. The only people who would potentially buy it are videophiles like us, and we account for a very small percentage of TV buyers. I definitely agree, however, that all sets should at least come with a THX type of mode that is fairly accurate right out of the box.

You might be right about that. Ultimately, this is a result of all the companies trying to outdo each other with "dynamic" settings. Now, if all the sets on display were all aiming for accuracy, so that all store displays had that toned-down look, then one set wouldn't look pale next to the other. But you're right - next to all the others that have dynamic mode blasting away, I suppose the average shopper might think there's a problem if one set appears to look different from the others. Too bad that once again the videophiles have to suffer because of a misinformed general public.