Samsung F8000 -- 2013 Flagship Models - Page 53

Glad you liked it. I've always thought that one article illustrated the ratio best myself. About your other question though, I'll try to answer it without inciting violence lol. I want to preface that it wasn't that annoyance that made me go to plasma initially since I would have lived with that, it was screen uniformity (specifically banding). However, once I 'arrived' I started to notice things about the picture quality that made me try to understand why my eyes were so much more pleased and why the picture and color had more depth. It wasn't the type of observation I could have made in the store, but one that only a few nights sitting in my living room enjoying both tv's watching a good show like 'Fringe' could have provided. I think someone mentioned how reviewers tend to miss these types of things...i'm not sure, but I could easily see how.

More specifically. Any scenes with black or darker shades (even if just a trench coat, a scarf, or the black parts of a large fire's smoke) that also had bright parts (like a city night scene) had a range that I never had on my LCD. With my LCD there would be scenes set in one room that had varied light sources and as the camera angles would change the algorythyms used to dim the LCD would change the dar,ness/brightness to a point where different camera angles in the same set would seem a bit disjointed because one angle would be interpreted as a darker scene than the other. My plasma on the other hand has a consistency that is pleasing and I'm not going to go into shadows and all that stuff - to me it really is just about the wide black to white range that isconsistent throughout my content that is pleasing. If I could somehow sum it up it was as if black and white could really coexist on one frame without any tradeoff, whereas on my LCD it was one, the other, or a dynamic mode crushing/losing detail, and also the visible switch from the led's turning off and on like Eagle notes is distracting. Of course there are the known tradeoffs of plasma's in general, but for me it was the uniform and deep consistent range from frame to frame that has me happy to have ended up here.

I should also mention that I have never noticed any type of weird dimming going on with my Sony XBR8. Is this because it has full array local dimming? Is CE dimming only a problem with edge lit panels?

Well CE-dimming is a Samsung thing. That's their own terminology. Other companies may or may not have similar "features" , I don't know, but CE-Dimming is exclusive to Samsung.

dimming is dimming whatever any company wants to call it and however they want to split it apart and allow customization of it. Full array local is better than edge from what I read, but I've never owned a full array so i can't comment on how well or not it works and whether I'd notice the visual problems reviewers do or don't - I couldn't afford one though in the size I like =]. I can say that clearly one edge lit tv can do it better than another, such as the Sony hx950 (think they call it smart led) - it doesn't have the annoying transitions I noticed in my samsungs. Its possible that its not just the hardware that matters but also how well the signal processing/algorythym department does their job?

Sony has always had great processing in its XBR line.

Micro-dimming is nothing like CE-Dimming. It's totally different. Micro-dimming is Samsung's name for software dimming, which is used to replace local dimming.

CE-Dimming is a blunt tool that simply dims the entire screen all at once when the screen displays dark images. It's totally unnecessary. CE Dimming affects video negatively. It's bad. Micro-dimming on the other hand is necessary - it's how the tv displays the image.

All sets have either local dimming or software dimming. That use of the word dimming means that each LED is adjusted separately to display the image. It's how the image is processed and displayed. On the other hand, the dimming that is used in CE-Dimming does the same thing as if you just went into the settings and dropped your brightness down 50% lower every time a dark scene is displayed.

Thanks. Do you think its Desktop I.E. 10 browser fast? I saw in that manual that was posted online that you can add a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse. Samsung does have their own all in one wireless keyboard and mouse.

http://www.staples.com/office/supplies/StaplesProductDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogIdentifier=2&partNumber=106375&langid=-1&cid=PS:GooglePLAs:106375&KPID=106375

CE dimming to Samsung, at least on the ES8000, effectively drops the backlight to 0 during dark content. It is not "smart" and just dims the entire picture.

Can anyone comment on what this sets like in regards to gaming, the input lag figures scare me on this set otherwise this tv is my next purchase

AGuy, do you see any difference in black levels between the Sony and the F8000?

Well actually one of the examples they give (text on a black background) is something that a good LED is fully capable of even though it appears they don't think that. You can most certainly get a black background with very bright text (like their image on the left) without haloing and scene to scene inconsistencies with a good LED and good edge or full array dimming.

In many it's not.

Be careful how you word it. Samsung's 55 inch panels destroy the Sony 750 and 850 models in regards to 3D especially if the Sony viewer is not smart enough to be using polarized glasses. I'm not so sure the difference is as great compared to the HX950 with it's higher processing power over it's little siblings. It's still better, but it's not quite so obvious unless someone knows what to look for in regards to crosstalk subtleties and 3D rendering.

Also....the same can not be said for the 2012 60 and 65 inch Sammys. 60 inch does not use a "sammy" panel which are the ones known for outstanding 3D and the 65's banding destroyed the 3D presentation albeit a flawless one.

But in 2012, the 55ES8000 was tops for 3D among 55s and I expect 2013 to be no different.

Again, I understand what you meant, but you were making a broad across the board statement they way you worded which certainly is not the case.

Glad to hear you're happy, but yet here you are, in an LED thread, looking around.

It's funny that I see lots of the plasma guys in LED threads like this one.

Just sayin.

Only the Sony 950 is a full array panel, not edge lit.

It could just be a question of the settings of the display the reviewers use vs the settings of the display that eagle used.

Mo's in the LED fraternity though. You can never truly leave even if you wanted to.

eagle, refer to the article I posted and it shows why it dims the whole backlight to account for contrast range of the scene. it shows the movie credit example even (i think I remember you taking issue with movie credits in the 8000 thread)

there's more to it than that, it even drops the backlight to a lower level for extremely dark scenes - such as outerspace and movie credits IME.

It's funny you say that cmay. That's the problem I'm facing, having lived with both technologies, I think I'll find it very difficult to go back to plasma. It's possible the newer plasmas like the F8500 and possibly the ZT60 will be bright enough to remove that plasma drawback, but that remains to be seen.

I'm also a bit nervous about having to once again be more careful with content. Since I've gone with an LED, I don't have to watch and warn my wife if she's watching something with burning logos. It's still an issue regardless of what some say.

I go through all sorts of threads just because I'm curious and when there's a point where I feel like giving my opinion or sharing my experience or knowledge, I usually do; I'm certainly happy that others do as well since that's how I've learned and I encourage everyone to do it. Not here for a fight if that's what you are suggesting though. I'm a tv guy and I look forward to the day a new tv comes out that gives me my plasma PQ without the limitations it has (phosphor trails etc.).

I didn't realize since I thought they just didn't make them anymore. In that case I can easily answer the original question.


Gweempose - yes, you are going to notice all those issues if you downgrade from a full local array to an edgelit at this time.

My experience when it comes to reviewing products....at least way back when I did it for a living was that we were told by the PR representatives to not say anything negative. You don't have to praise it, you just can't rip it otherwise you will soon find yourself not on the invitee list to the product launches when credentials are mailed out. That's why most reviews are either positive or neutral. Rarely do you see a product review ripping a product unless you have a rebel reporter. Also keep in mind, the industries I covered were not consumer products per say either (Pharmacueticals and Credit Card companies.... can anyone guess which city?) and I made only $10 an hour as well so I wasn't in position to go back to my editor and explain why I wasn't invited to a product launch. As you can guess, I didn't stay at that job for to long. Got to switch to sports and covered the Phillies and Sixers for two seasons.... but at a whopping $15 an hour. Woohoo!

No, I never thought you were looking for a 'showdown' mo, you don't strike me that way.

I guess I used my own thread searching tendencies in saying what I did. Personally I never venture into threads where I have no real interest in the product and no real intent of buying it. I spend way too much time in the product threads of things I'm interested in as is.

But as you well know, we do get some plasma guys that come to LED threads to pick a fight (you should have seen some of the many posts in the Sharp Elite thread) and LED guys who venture into plasma threads with the same intent. Weird stuff.

I would say with the possible exception of the Sony 850 and the new Samsung F8000. The new Sammy really does seem to be a different animal even though it's edge lit. I haven't yet seen the effects of CE dimming, so I don't know if it's an issue or not. I'd probably be using the Movie mode where everyone says it was always disengaged anyway. But even playing with the display in Standard mode I didn't notice the issue.

I'll certainly be looking for it though before I make any decision. Besides that, I'm really looking for the 65", so who knows what, if any, issues will surface with that. Cmay already has me looking out for banding on that model.

I agree to an extent, but reviewers certainly have been mentioning clouding, uniformity and other issues with other displays. So they appear ready to point out problems that they do see. So I'm not sure if this is simply a case of not having seen the CE dimming issue yet or simply doing all their observing in the Movie mode which most critical reviewers would use. I know I haven't seen it yet. I'm pretty sensitive to this stuff and I'm almost sure I'd notice it if it was there. By the same token I haven't spent a ton of time with the display either.

Ken, My 65VT30 served me well. When I was looking for a new TV, I logically gravitated toward the 65VT50. I had some issues with the Panny's (nothing serious), but in the end... I realized I would be foolish to have two TVs that I feel a need (even if you really don't need to - debatable.... my Oppo IR issue I always point to) to "baby" anymore. Hence, the switch to LED. Had disastrous results with QC as you know with Sammy, but still loved what I saw from Sammy and LED and finally settled on the 65HX950. Would I buy another plasma? You bet. Would I buy another LED? You bet. I honestly could care less in the end what I'm watching, as long as I'm happy with the picture be it plasma or LED. I guess I just happen to be in that fraternity that either own both or have owned both at separate times, and see the pros and cons of both objectively... or at least I think I do

We think alike. In the end I'm sure I'll go with the display that, to my eyes, produces the best picture. I, like you, am technology agnostic. Let the chips fall where they may.

I seek to understand and at times 'pay it back'. I walked into a store to upgrade my big *ss 65" CRT and walked out with an edge lit LCD. Coming from 540p to 1080p was of course a huge step and I loved it....untill I sat with it and started noticing all the artifacts. I'm always interested to see how they deal with these artifacts and when they do so to my satisfaction, i'll be buying one and becoming fully initiated into the fraternity. Looking forward to seeing the experiences and improvements along the way though as well =D

I thought it was clear I was referring to my Sony and Samsung. Semantics! Now we must fight with our fists!


I've only played a Japanese RPG on it so far, Ni No Kuni, and it's fine. However, on the HX850 I played Tomb Raider with certain television effects and motion smoothing enabled and any input lag that was there didn't impact my performance. I can't imagine the F8000 will be too far off. The F8000 does have a game mode that can be enabled, and reviews have mentioned renaming the input to PC greatly reduced the lag.


I notice a difference in two areas. The first is that my Sony 55HX850's blacks would get a little lighter around brighter content. I don't necessarily know yet if the Samsung bests it in that regard, but with Cinema Black enabled, I don't see that same effect when watching 2.35:1 aspect ratio films.

The second is that the viewing angles on the F8000 don't seem quite as wide. If I'm sitting off center or are a little close to the screen, the gamma shift can be noticeable. I may have to move my couch back just a few more inches.

In other news, my copies of The Hobbit and Dredd (3D versions) just came. I'm excited to test them both out today.
Edited by AGuy01 - 3/19/13 at 1:59pm