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Samsung F8000 -- 2013 Flagship Models - Page 57

post #1681 of 3645
You are correct, but apparently Samsung added many more. They were approximated during a calibration. I don't think any of us really knows what they've done in terms of engineering this display.

All the technical talk is great, but I suggest you take a look at one and forget the tech that goes in to it and see how you like it. I've seen over the years how the tech talk can deviate markedly from what this actually translates to.

I've been disappointed by displays that, on paper, sounded great and in person not so much. I've also doubted some displays that didn't sound great on paper, yet looked very good.
post #1682 of 3645
Can anyone tell me if the ES8000 push button remote ( AA59-00637A ) will work with the F8000?

With the price tag of the F8000, should have came with second remote.
post #1683 of 3645
I just looked into what it would cost to get the replacement standard remote for the ES8000, which is what you would want for this set from what I understand.

To order, you will need to call the parts company that handles Samsung replacement parts. For the US, this is:

J & J International, Inc.
8 York Avenue
West Caldwell, NJ 07006

1-800-627-4368

You will need to tell them you want the standard remote, not the touch remote. Their website only lists the touch remote. The cost of the standard remote is $27.46, plus shipping (the cost of shipping to my state was $11). So that makes the replacement remote around $39.

To compare, the replacement standard remote for my Panasonic 2012 blu-ray player, which only included the lousy touch remote, was $10, plus $5 for shipping. So that makes this standard remote more than twice as expensive as that. I'm actually disappointed that it costs that much. It really shouldn't.
post #1684 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pickstv View Post

Can anyone tell me if the ES8000 push button remote ( AA59-00637A ) will work with the F8000?

With the price tag of the F8000, should have came with second remote.

Yes, in fact, the remote I was just referring to in my above comment about ordering a replacement remote is that remote.

And I agree, it should have come with it. Shame on them for making us have to fork over close to $40 to get the standard remote when other regions get it included in the box.
post #1685 of 3645
Found the AA59-00637A remote on Amazon for 29.99 plus 5.49 S&H if anyone is looking for one.





http://www.amazon.com/SAMSUNG-REMOTE-CONTROL-MODEL-AA59-00637A/dp/B0089Z7BD2
post #1686 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

You are correct, but apparently Samsung added many more. They were approximated during a calibration. I don't think any of us really knows what they've done in terms of engineering this display.

All the technical talk is great, but I suggest you take a look at one and forget the tech that goes in to it and see how you like it. I've seen over the years how the tech talk can deviate markedly from what this actually translates to.

I've been disappointed by displays that, on paper, sounded great and in person not so much. I've also doubted some displays that didn't sound great on paper, yet looked very good.

I'd love to demo it, but there's no place around me that has one in a suitable environment. The Best Buy does have one, but it's set up at the end of an aisle in their bright showroom. Experience with the HX850 has made me skeptical of "local" dimming on edge-lit sets, and experience with the Sony EX645 together with all the usual complaints about edge-lit sets in general has made me skeptical about this type of backlight as a replacement for CCFL. So, I'm hoping for a review that will test it in a dark room with specific material known to be problematic on other edge-lit sets that do local dimming.

And more zones wouldn't necessarily help the HX850. Suppose it had 200 zones on each side instead of 8. The only advantage of more zones would be finer control of the strips above and below the ones necessary to illuminate an object on a dark background, which doesn't really solve anything. It would be quite something if Samsung cracked this problem, along with all the other problems that have plagued LED sets to date.
post #1687 of 3645
Am I correct that they don't include the full (186 page) product manual with the tv, only the limited (36 page) manual?
post #1688 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstone001 View Post

Am I correct that they don't include the full (186 page) product manual with the tv, only the limited (36 page) manual?

You are correct. The full manual is through the TV itself, a practice that is becoming more and more common these days it seems. I miss the days of massive manuals, rain forest be damned! Now everything is a pdf or interactive file on the software or devices themselves.

To be fair, though, the e-manual is pretty cool.
post #1689 of 3645
Just to clarify something, the ES8000 has at no time had the Smart LED feature, and I've had the set since release. Nor did it have Cinema Black. I had both features on the D8000 however, and wasn't all that impressed because of its issues with banding even in the 55" series

Rogo I happen to agree with most of the things you say, especially related to the limitations of edge lit local dimming. Exchanging from a D8000 to an ES8000 because I was one of the many afflicted with such banding due to the edge lit array (Sony HX50 had the same banding/DSE issues look it up) - I was actually relieved to see that the ES8000 didn't have the same banding issues as the D8000 for the most part (with the exception being the 65" ES)

I don't know if this issue will be there with the D8000, but it was possiby the reason they scrapped the edge lit dimming in the ES series. Have they now solved these issues with the new implementation in the F8000? We won't know by a handful of reviews, but when these sets are in the hands of the masses time will tell
post #1690 of 3645
I haven't spotted any banding yet. I noticed it fairly quickly on the Sony HX850, which was one of the reasons I returned it. So far so good on the F8000.
post #1691 of 3645
Thread Starter 
I'm going to be honest... I'm happy with my TV, but I'm feeling a little bit of F8500 envy right now. smile.gif
post #1692 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

I'm going to be honest... I'm happy with my TV, but I'm feeling a little bit of F8500 envy right now. smile.gif

That is until they start spontaneously cracking inside the screen like so many other past Samsung plasmas. eek.gif
post #1693 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmay91472 View Post

That is until they start spontaneously cracking inside the screen like so many other past Samsung plasmas. eek.gif

This I have not heard. I will have to do a little research on this problem
post #1694 of 3645
It always appeared the F8500 would be a winner, so I can't say I'm surprised. But I'm a bit disappointed by Robert's commenting on the brightness relative to the 8000 since Samsung did claim "LED brightness". Robert did say it was brighter than the VT50, but that's not the benchmark I was hoping for. I was really looking for a nice leap in plasma brightness and not having to put up with a dull look in certain scenes or lighting conditions.

With that said, maybe it's in the same ballpark as an LED with certain setting parameters dialed in, we'll see.
post #1695 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimShaw View Post

This I have not heard. I will have to do a little research on this problem

I was just trying to make a joke you know?

But since you asked....

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1330304/samsung-plasma-internal-crack-and-samsungs-response-ongoing

Just one of many threads if you google it.
post #1696 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamermwm View Post

Just to clarify something, the ES8000 has at no time had the Smart LED feature, and I've had the set since release. Nor did it have Cinema Black. I had both features on the D8000 however, and wasn't all that impressed because of its issues with banding even in the 55" series

Here is a link to an ES7500 review with the reviewer's settings included. Note the listing for "Smart LED".

http://reviews.lcdtvbuyingguide.com/samsung-lcd-tv/samsung-es7500-picturesettings.html

Is it possible that it was removed in an early firmware update? Now I'm starting to wonder if I ever had that setting or not on my ES7500. I know I had LED motion plus as an option, but I'm not sure about smart LED.
Edited by eagle_2 - 3/20/13 at 4:50pm
post #1697 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Jim, I especially like the 'significantly brighter than the VT50" and the 'whites are much whiter'. Those are key elements to me coming from LED.

I've asked Robert how much dimmer the 8500 is than the 8000. That's another key element of consideration.

I think the big question isn't just the brightness of the F8500, but the stability of the brightness. The ABL in last year's Samsung plasma caused the brightness to fluctuate wildly when displaying very bright images, that's one of the reasons I gave up on plasma. It was far too annoying for me to overlook. I need a stable image, not one that jumps up and down in brightness depending on the scene. That's also why I hate the CE-Dimming on these LED sets.
post #1698 of 3645
I'm not too upset about choosing the 8000 over the 8500. I just don't want to deal with plasma buzz, running slides, image retention, being careful about what I watch, etc. They look great, of course, but every time I looked up information about them I saw checklists of what not to watch and for how long. I watch and play a lot of content with static images, too, so no thank you.
post #1699 of 3645
Well it seems no F8000 for me...But F8500 is another story rolleyes.gif
Edited by agkss - 3/20/13 at 5:50pm
post #1700 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by mono2dolby View Post

It is my understanding that, although the Hobbit was shot at 48fps, Blu-Ray only supports 24fps. So no matter what we'll get a "dumbed down" rate (like we've been looking at since forever).

I think there's some sort of "committee" that will need to change the specs of Blu-Ray to support 48fps. Most likely Blu-Rays will need to be larger capacity discs to hold twice the data, too. I figure they'll change the name to Super-Rays or something (I just made that up). X-Rays? Hoo-Rays?

I'm not Mr. Expert on this. I think I read it on another AVS forum.

Yea, but it should look a little different than a regular Blu-Ray at 24fps though and I think that's all the OP was wondering. I don't really like the movie but "Crank" was shot at a higher fps, I think, and it looks really weird on HBO, let alone a Blu-Ray.
post #1701 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

The ABL in last year's Samsung plasma caused the brightness to fluctuate wildly when displaying very bright images, that's one of the reasons I gave up on plasma. It was far too annoying for me to overlook. I need a stable image, not one that jumps up and down in brightness depending on the scene. That's also why I hate the CE-Dimming on these LED sets.

It sounds like you're not a big fan of plasmas or LCDs. You may have to wait for OLED to be truly happy. wink.gif
post #1702 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Here is a link to an ES7500 review with the reviewer's settings included. Note the listing for "Smart LED".

http://reviews.lcdtvbuyingguide.com/samsung-lcd-tv/samsung-es7500-picturesettings.html

Is it possible that it was removed in an early firmware update? Now I'm starting to wonder if I ever had that setting or not on my ES7500. I know I had LED motion plus as an option, but I'm not sure about smart LED.

Nope never had those features. Maybe that review is one of the many copy/paste reviews out there from the previous year, or just a review of an early prototype of the ES8000
Quote:
Originally Posted by AGuy01 View Post

I haven't spotted any banding yet. I noticed it fairly quickly on the Sony HX850, which was one of the reasons I returned it. So far so good on the F8000.

HX850 banding? Exactly what I was talking about, which seems more prevalent in edge lit local dimmers. When you run some grey screen tests on the F8000 please post the results here. Everyone is looking for flashlighting/corner bleeding but banding should not be overlooked
post #1703 of 3645
I saw the F8000 for the 1st time today. I played around with it for about 15 minutes. I was actually very impressed with the remote. It worked really well and figured out how to use rather quickly. They just had their typical loop of video being played on it but it looked good. I changed the picture to Standard and turned the precision black on high, I think that's what it's called, and watched for a few minutes. On one particular scene there was an up-close shot of a tail-wing of a plane at dusk. The picture was very rich and colors looked inky. I didn't notice any judder as the camera panned very slowly to the right and stopped with the tail-wing of the plane in the bottom-left corner of the TV. It was completely pitch-black. The section of the TV where the plane wing was located looked to be off. Granted, this was in a store with tons of lighting but it was next to the ES8000 which was also on Standard and the blacks on the ES were terrible compared to the F8000. I don't know how much stock to put into that though because the ES8000 did not have the new update that everyone's ranting about. I would've had more time with it but a sale's person was showing it to some customers. They work off commission there so they're eager to fill you full of BS to make a sale. Long story.
post #1704 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

I think the big question isn't just the brightness of the F8500, but the stability of the brightness. The ABL in last year's Samsung plasma caused the brightness to fluctuate wildly when displaying very bright images, that's one of the reasons I gave up on plasma. It was far too annoying for me to overlook. I need a stable image, not one that jumps up and down in brightness depending on the scene. That's also why I hate the CE-Dimming on these LED sets.

I'm with you on this Eagle and I've asked Robert that question. When he gets a handle on this I'll let you know. ABL is unquestionably a downer for me too.
post #1705 of 3645
http://www.twice.com/articletype/news/samsung-reveals-2013-tv-prices/105422

Samsung revealed its prices and looks like this time the Plasma is higher in price than the LED!!


"The F8000 series adds to that a pop-up HD camera, quad-core processor, full Motion Control, speech recognition and MHL adapter.
Screen sizes include 46 inches ($2,200), 55 inches ($2,700), 60 inches ($3,000), 65 inches ($3,500) and 75 inches ($8,000).

The 2013 plasma line this year is divided between the top-end F8500, the midline F5500 and F5300 series and the entry F4500 series.

The F8500 models include the 51-inch ($2,200 suggested retail), the 60-inch ($3,200) and the 64-inch ($3,700) screen sizes."
post #1706 of 3645
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AGuy01 View Post

I'm not too upset about choosing the 8000 over the 8500. I just don't want to deal with plasma buzz, running slides, image retention, being careful about what I watch, etc. They look great, of course, but every time I looked up information about them I saw checklists of what not to watch and for how long. I watch and play a lot of content with static images, too, so no thank you.

And, again, just to be a broken record, many of us with plasmas:

* don't run slides
* don't have image retention
* are not careful about what we watch
* have plenty of static images
* don't have any detectable buzz under any normal viewing conditions (I have a tad under very weird conditions that really isn't bothersome enough to even call for service...)
* pay no attention to whatever these checklists supposedly tell us
post #1707 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by AGuy01 View Post

You are correct. The full manual is through the TV itself, a practice that is becoming more and more common these days it seems. I miss the days of massive manuals, rain forest be damned! Now everything is a pdf or interactive file on the software or devices themselves.

To be fair, though, the e-manual is pretty cool.

The e-manual is good, for as much as it has. For example, I guess I can control my Tivo box with the F8000 remote? But I can't find in the e-manual how to set it up. It tell me that I can hook the tv up to something with ARC. It doesn't tell me what ARC is or whether I want it. I think you need to be an engineer to fully understand what the tv can do. I guess that's not really a valid criticism though.

Is there a way to save the picture mode? I change it to "Natural", but the next time I turn the tv on, it's back to Standard.

For 3D, I push the button and it tells me to choose which of the 3D icons is suitable. As far as I can tell, none of them are. None actually give me 3D tv, unless 3D just means "too blurry to watch."
post #1708 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

And, again, just to be a broken record, many of us with plasmas:

* don't run slides
* don't have image retention
* are not careful about what we watch
* have plenty of static images
* don't have any detectable buzz under any normal viewing conditions (I have a tad under very weird conditions that really isn't bothersome enough to even call for service...)
* pay no attention to whatever these checklists supposedly tell us

The operative phrase here is 'many of us'. Let's be fair, there are many reports from plasma owners, including the VT50 that do have issues with IR and buzzing. I'm not saying that it's a big problem, but it's certainly not an issue that's been 100% solved.

Personally the buzzing never bothered me even though I did have it on my Kuro, but some are more sensitive to this than others.
post #1709 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

The operative phrase here is 'many of us'. Let's be fair, there are many reports from plasma owners, including the VT50 that do have issues with IR and buzzing. I'm not saying that it's a big problem, but it's certainly not an issue that's been 100% solved.

Personally the buzzing never bothered me even though I did have it on my Kuro, but some are more sensitive to this than others.

Permanent burn in may no longer be an issue, but severe IR definitely still is. As mentioned before, the large Oppo logo IRed itself into my 65VT50 after only being on the screen for 15 minutes prior to the screen saver kicking it. Did it show up on anything other than break in slides? No.... But imagine what it would have beenimr had there been no screen saver on the Oppo.
post #1710 of 3645
Not so sure if it's permanent or not cmay. That CNET report indicated they hadn't gotten rid of all the IR after attempts to do so. Maybe over time it would have, but it's still an issue.
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