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Samsung F8000 -- 2013 Flagship Models - Page 91

post #2701 of 3645
Does the band show up when you do have a signal?
post #2702 of 3645
Hi Guy`s ,

Many thanks for all your well wishes biggrin.gif

I made that stand back in `96 !

I knew that flat panel tv`s were on there way , so I drew out a design,

The overall dimensions are 43' wide / 21" deep / and 25' high.

The 4 bays are 19-3/4" wide , the top 2 are 12" high and the bottom 2 are 10" high.

Top is made with cross-grained maple 3/4' / the middle shelf is 1" oak / while the bottom is matched grained 3/4"maple.

All up-rights are match grained poplar and the overall finish is Min-Wax Golden Oak - 210 / over that are about 4 coats of polyurethane gloss.

At the time there was nothing in any store like it , and I figured since I could not find what I wanted I might as well design something and build it. !

I had help wink.gif , it was a lot of work , but it has lasted and seen many a tv !!

Thanks for you complements ! biggrin.gif

Now back to the tv , sorry , still way to soon to tell . but like I said , I am very impressed with the sound , there will be no sound-bar`s needed for this tv.

Of course not everyone has a 5.1 system , and many will get use from a sound bar , and Samsung even has a place to plug one in !!

More to post , the tv is still settling-in , and I won`t even attempt a solid calibration for at least a week to 10 days.

However , I do plan to follow and post on this thread. The F8000 is probably one of the most setting intense tv`s out there , the most adjustments I have ever seen on a tv ! eek.gif , If we can even call it a tv !! LOL

O__+___O == , I did try out the web browser for the heck of it and the search engine used is "Bing" , no surprise there. It was really quick , not like my Mac Mini that I have hooked up to it , but for those who don`t have a computer or HT-PC hooked up to the tv , will be very please with there web-surfing fun !!

Downside is space , not size space , well maybe ! , No I am talking about there internal memory for storage , it`s not much , I think 1.3 or 6 GB something like that.
Unless you can use a flash drive ??? , Like I said , a lot of work ~!

Later , smile.gif

Gary 
post #2703 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcthomas View Post

Does the band show up when you do have a signal?

no it doesn't . Also after using the TV for an hour or so, I dont see it anymore even on no signal screen. Not sure what the issue is.
post #2704 of 3645
Well here's some early thoughts on my 46" F8000 now that I've spent several hours with it. Warning - this will be long! I hope some find it useful to at least get an idea of what's in store for them if they take the plunge and buy the set.


Part 1:

- First, Uniformity. - I have yet ot see any clouding. That alone is huge for me. Last year the clouding on the ES7500 was totally unacceptable. It ruined everything I watched. So far there is none - zero! No "V" cloud either. The screen is very clean looking overall. Seriously, not a hint of clouding anywhere on the screen, regardless of picture mode or settings used. There is some flashlighting in 3 of the 4 corners. It's a bit distracting, though sometimes, even on a black screen, it seems to be difficult to see. I really wasn't thrilled to see flashlighting honestly, and this concerns me. But the rest of the screen is a huge improvement over last year. There's also a couple areas on the top of the panel where you can see light leaks if you look at the panel from above looking down - brighter areas where it appears as though there are LED right there leaking through - but I thought the LEDs were placed on the sides of this panel, not the top and bottom? Not sure, but those small areas of light leak cannot be seen when looking at the panel from a normal height. Also, there's a slight amount of banding, but I wouldn't say I expect it to be bothersome. It's very mild and even on a greyscale image the screen looks quite uniform overall. Of course it's LED LCD so it won't be perfect. The dead pixel I have means no matter what I won't be keeping this particular set. I ran the set for several hours so the panel had plenty of time to get warm - I saw no heat-related issue on-screen, and no clouding appeared at any time.

- "We're gonna need a bigger table". The included Arc stand is really ridiculous. It's absolutely huge, and requires an A/V rack intended for a 50-55" tv to hold the 46" model because of the stand. The stand is well made though - it feels very high quality. The set itself looks gorgeous on the Arc stand. On my new black glass and metal A/V rack, it appears to almost float. Very sleek, and the bezel is ridiculously thin. A metallic silver border runs along the entire perimeter of the bezel. The back is very sleek as well - very clean and polished. There are included covers for both the input area and the AC cord area, so the entire back looks incredibly sleek when the covers are in place. The optionally-lit Samsung logo underneath the panel is very small - smaller than last year. It looks very nice illuminated, though I'm not really a fan of illuminated logos so it will remain off. I love how you have the potion for it to be always on, always off, illuminated when on, or illuminated when off. You have full control over it. Perhaps setting it to illuminate when turned off would be nice for some owners, to draw attention to it, though it doesn't need the illuminated logo to draw any attention. It really looks stunning. The whole set seems very solid and well-built. It feels like a set of this cost should feel.

- The remote. Yeah...I'm just not a fan of this remote. It sure looks sleek and futuristic. It feels quite heavy and feels very high quality. Until you try to remove the back battery cover that is. Ridiculous! I needed to check the manual to figure out how to do that. You need to pry a coin or credit card or other object in a tiny slot to the side, and pry off the back! It literally feels like you're snapping the back off. The back feels incredibly cheap. Very thin plastic, and it just relies on tiny little edges to snap back on when you put the cover back. I have no doubt that it will break at some point when replacing batteries. The touch motion seems fairly accurate at times, but when lying down, I tend to move in the wrong direction often apparently as I keep selecting the wrong things. It feels awkward to use honestly. It's downright frustrating to use when inputting a ton of settings. A standard remote would be much better, and I highly recommend ordering a standard 2012 ES8000 remote from Samsung, as it will be the better remote for at least some activities, and the touch remote will likely not last forever with the cheap back. The entire touch panel is actually a button and can be pressed. Something I discovered that was a real nice surprise is that it's illuminated! I had no idea it lights up - the buttons illuminate a very pleasant white when turned on with the illumination key. Nice touch!

- I haven't payed with the interface too much yet, but it's very sleek. Very smooth menus and animations. Moving the "highlight" window is very nicely done - it just "glides" over to the next selection. I have the device extended attached, and to my surprise, it works well. I controls my FiOS box very well, and allows me to change the channels and even use the guide and menus.

- Voice: The voice feature works "okay". Better than last year, and I haven't done much with it honestly yet, so I'm sure I haven't seen it's full range of capabilities yet with voice. I can change channels with voice thanks to the extender, which is cool, but I can't say what channel directly, at least not that I've seen yet. I can say "channel up" or "channel down', but I can't say "channel 512" - it doesn't go directly to a channel. Same with volume. I can say "volume up" or "volume down", but not "volume 30". This needs to change, or it's just no t worth even bothering with. If I could actually say the volume or channel I want, I can it being a somewhat valuable feature actually. But I'm not going to say "channel up" dozens of times until I hit the right channel. This needs to be fixed. I thought that was the point of the enhanced voice interaction this year? Fun tip - read the privacy policy on the voice feature in setup - you may never use it again. Creepy. They record your voice and spoken commands and words, and reserve the right to store that and even make it available to third parties! Super creepy!

- Motion: Improved over last year for sure. This year it actually can see my hand without needing every light in the apartment on. Actually it seems to work in fairly limited light light. It still seems mostly pointles though. At least half the time it doesn't see my hand or it drops my hand in the middle of using the motion feature. It seems quite awkward and clunky, and I can't imagine using this. It' s just tiring and frustrating to use. Wasted effort on gimmick technology. At least I could see the voice being useful if it could actually let me tune directly to a channel. Motion is far more trouble than it's worth.

- I used the AVS and WOW discs to do a basic quick setup. Using the white clipping patterns for both standard and movie modes was really weird. The bars stay greyish until around 80-85 for the contrast setting, but then after that, the bars turn very pinkish. With the contrast at 95 or 100, the bars are very pink, not grey, yet virtually all the bars are still visible - the whiter than white bars ares till clearly visible and pink. Even at 100, all the bars, (or stars on the WOW disc) remain visible. I don't know what that means, but it doesn't seem right. Why does everything shift pink?

- Standard and Movie seems to look quite different, even with identical settings dialed in for both. Movie mode seems duller than standard, like last year. It also seems a bit darker at the same backlight setting. Currently I have a backlight setting of around 10 for standard - for Movie it needs to be bumped up to around 12 it seems to get the panel around the same brightness. Colors are different too. In standard, a white screen looks very bright and white indeed. In movie, a white screen looks dull and off-white. I feel standard looks more impressive without appearing overly processed like the unusable Natural and Dynamic modes.

- Standard does quite a bit to diminish flashlighting. In movie, flashlighting doesn't seem too bad, but is sometimes noticeable, like when watching 4:3 with the pillarboxed bars, or cinemascope, or in a very dark screen. Standard makes them much harder to see.

- Auto-Dimming/CE-Dimming: To my utter shock - standard uses auto-dimming very subtly this year, from my early experiments with it. This is in huge contrast to last year, where I found standard unwatchable due to the very aggressive use of full-screen auto-dimming with darker content. So far it looks like as long as SMART-LED is off, auto-dimming is minimal. The image seems much more stable, and I may be able to use it this year without it becoming intrusive to my viewing. Movie mode is completely stable, with SMART-LED off - no auto-dimming or brightness fluctuations. But again movie mode does appear a bit dull compared to standard. The opening credits sequence of Star Trek: The Next Generation work very well for testing the stability of the image, because it's like a torture test for auto-dimming - when the bright blue names appear against the black of space with the stars as a backdrop, it can play havoc with auto-dimming as the names appear and disappear. It makes it very easy to spot if the screen is dimming, as it causes the auto-diming to trigger when the screen gets darker in-between names. In standard, there is very mild dimming. Very mild, to the point where it's very hard to notice, and that's something that I found very annoying last year. White names against a black screen look very white and bright in standard - not dull and dimmed like last year. This is thrilling news for me, and I pray they don't change it later and make it more aggressive.
post #2705 of 3645
Part two:

- SMART LED: Okay, right off the bat I will say that I can't imagine ever wanting to use this feature, at least not with feature films or favorite tv shows. Enabling SMART LED in either standard or movie mode, even at its lowest setting, introduces unacceptable full-screen auto-dimming/CE-Dimming. It's a very weird feature. It seems to act a lot like the Dynamic Contrast setting, while introducing auto-dimming into the mix. With SMART-LED off in movie, the brightness is completely stable, regardless of content - with SMART-LED enabled, even on low, the screen dims and fluctuates when playing darker content. The same thing happens with standard mode. Standard mode appears to have very mild auto-dimming when SMART-LED is off - but when it's on, it becomes much more aggressive. White text becomes dim and dull against a black screen. The Star Trek: TNG credits play havoc with SMART-LED - the screen pops up and down constantly in brightness, as each name appears in the opening intro. When a bright blue name appears against the space backdrop, the screen gets brighter accordingly. When the name fades away, the screen instantly drops very noticeably in brightness - when the next name appears, the screen gets brighter again. You can see the pillarbox bars dimming and brightening also. The entire screen is like a strobe light with SMART-LED enabled. It does seem to make a noticeable difference in image quality - I'm not sure yet if it's a good difference or bad - but the dimming means it is unusable to me. Very sad, because I had high hopes for this controlling microdimming. I have no idea if that's what this feature does, but I was hoping I could use it on low without drawbacks - alas, even on low the dimming it introduces is too annoying to ignore.

- Dynamic Contrast - like last year, it can help or hurt. I tend to like it on low, but absolutely no higher. It can hurt some types of images, but can also help quite a bit with others.

- Black tone - like last year, this just crushes black. Leave it off. It may be of some use with very basic animation that might not have subtle details in the blacks, but generally, leave it off. It may be tempting because it can appear to darken blacks, but it just harms the image by crushing shadow details.

- Auto Motion Plus: Like last year, it still stutters on some FiOS content on anything other than "clear". Even setting it to custom and leaving judder reduction off can still cause stuttering on some channels. It may be broadcast issues, but this has been an ongoing issue, and it still remains an issue. Clear looks to be the best choice if you like a bit of smoothing without going overboard or introducing stuttering. Something that seems to not be right is in custom, even with judder reduction on 0, there's' a noticeable amount of soap opera effect. This should not be the case. The whole point is you should be able to leave judder reduction on 0 and blur reduction on 10 and get the benefit of blur reduction with zero frame interpolation or soap opera effect. Yet it's obvious that setting custom judder to 0 still introduces some motion interpolation, as well as some stuttering. This is with FiOS BBC America with the new Doctor Who playing, so I don't know yet how this affects Blu-rays. I'll have to look into this further.

- 3D: Extremely good 3D. Very little to no crosstalk, except in some torture tests. Scenes with extremely high contrast ratios like a bright white object against space can certainly cause some distracting crosstalk, but this was only on a video I use for a torture testing for crosstalk (Lichmond in 3D - a very cool CGI musical journey, has very high contrast ratios in some scenes - particularly the opening song, which always causes very noticeable crosstalk). In almost any video, I can't imagine crosstalk being any issue whatsoever. Stunning 3D quality. The brightness is also amazing. In the 3D menu you have an option for 3D brightness - low or high. Default is low. This is separate from the backlight setting. I've found setting 3D brightness to high and then dropping the backlight down a bit from the default 20 works very well, but of course I"m likely to tweak it more as I play around with it more. If there is any forced frame interpolation in 3D mode, I'm not seeing it. And I'm very sensitive to the soap opera effect. I saw no sign of the soap opera effect when I watched some scenes from The Avengers in 24p, with AMP set to off. When I set it to "clear", there was a noticeable smoothing of the motion, though in 3D it does seem to have merit. I still prefer to have it off, but I can see many people liking the look of motion smoothing in 3D mode. I feared base on some reviews that all 24p content in 3D would have an accompanying dose of smoothing applied, but I really didn't notice it. I certainly saw some judder even with AMP off. I saw no flicker.


- Game mode is virtually useless this year. There is virtually no difference between gaming in regular mode and gaming in game mode. It's very sluggish, and I could see this killing your game. I plan to do a lag test soon, but I can say that gaming in game mode is not very good.

- PC mode is entirely different. I use my PC for gaming, which is connected to my receiver, then through the tv, via HDMI. IN PC mode, the game feels much snappier, and more responsive. I believe games are very playable in PC mode. But you do lose most all settings. Something strange that didn't happen last year - if my PC sends out a signal in a non-standard HDTV resolution, it automatically engages PC mode. For example - I select my Nvidia control panel to use the tv as my only monitor. It switches to 1920x1080 resolution and is displayed on my tv. I have full control over all settings, and it's just like a regular HDMI input - I can enable game mode, AMP, everything. It's a just another video signal as far as the tv is concerned. If I play a game in 1920x1080 resolution, it's the same thing - I can manually select PC mode of course, or I can stay in regular viewing mode or select game mode, and have full access to the available settings. BUT, if I play a game that can't do 1920x1080, and it needs to switch to a lower resolution (say 1280x1024), the tv automatically switches to PC mode when it detects the resolution. There is no way to leave PC mode. Last year I wasn't forced into PC mode. I could use game mode for instance. This year with a PC, if you aren't playing in 1920x1080 resolution, the tv forces PC mode, with no option to use game mode even if you wanted to. You must play in 1920x1080 to have the option of not using PC mode.

- It may be for the better anyways to use PC mode when gaming - not only due to the vast improvement of input lag, but because PC mode supports full 4:4:4 Chroma. Try putting your desktop at 1920x1080 on the tv, and leave it in regular or game mode. Right-click on something to bring up a dialog list - now look at the text. It's very hard to read - the letters are very poorly formed and have a strange "edge" that makes everything unpleasant to read. Now switch to PC mode - Instantly the text is nice and readable, and everything is improved. This is because of the proper 4:4:4 handling in PC mode. This is a huge benefit for using the set as a monitor for surfing or gaming or whatnot.

- I haven't yet played around with Cinema Black, so I'll to post about that later after I have time to experiment with it.

- I haven't used the built-in speakers too much yet, since it was late when I was playing with it, but wow! - the speakers can get really loud. I think the sound in the set will impress people. I can't wait to try them out properly.

So there's what I've taken away so far. I like that I may be able to use standard this year without the awful aggressive CE-Dimming of previous years. On the other hand, I'm disappointed that I can't use SMART-LED, which I had high hopes for, because it results in the dreaded CE-Dimming or auto-dimming that I dislike so much. I get the feeling the same will be true for Cinema Black, but I'll certainly giv
e it a try. The uniformity is vastly improved from last year - especially noticeable is the complete lack of any clouding. There's mild flashlighting, but it seems to be improving if that is even possible - it already doesn't seem as bad as it did when I first saw it. I'll keep everyone posted as I make some new discoveries. It's a shame I have a dead pixel - I certainly don't want to keep it because of that, but over the next few days, if I feel happy about the set, I might get it swapped out for another one and see it how it goes.
Edited by eagle_2 - 4/25/13 at 3:33pm
post #2706 of 3645
Wow, jedi29, that's a great stand you built! Very nice indeed.
post #2707 of 3645
Hi eagle ,

Thanks for the review and info , very helpful ! smile.gif

I am still going to wait it out for a week or so before I do any serious adjustments. I tv as complicated as the F8000 has so many features and components , that I feel it would be a waste to try have thing permanent.

Don`t get me wrong , I have played with the settings just about all night long !! eek.gif

Just way to may settings that I am not familiar with , some I don`t even now what they do until I try them , crazy confused.gif

Anyway , thanks again for the info , O__ , so far I am not seeing any flash lighting at all , of course if I was to max out the brightness , I am sure there would be some , no way around it really. For a tv to be completely flash-light free it would need to be OLED , yup , you won`t see any with those sets !!

Of course they cost more than 2.2k !

Take care , later biggrin.gif

Gary 
post #2708 of 3645
Hey eagle , thanks for the complement , I really appreciate it.

It took about a day to design and about a month and a half to build !!

A ton of work and I was lucky to have help, but the fun part was picking out the right wood ! , really smile.gif

Later , biggrin.gif

Me 
post #2709 of 3645
Looks very professional - nicer than the stands I've been seeing in stores for sure!
post #2710 of 3645
Thanks for the impressions, eagle! I'm looking forward to more and hopefully what settings you end up using.

I have to disagree about game mode, though. I noticed a huge improvement when enabling it. I'm sure the response time is still higher than what it should be, but when I was testing it in Call of Duty and Dragon's Dogma, enabling it made the games go from feeling sluggish to smooth. This might just be different levels of personal tolerance, however. Regardless, what you wrote about 4:4:4 Chroma is pushing me to start using PC mode. I haven't tested that one yet.

And as far as Movie Mode, I found I liked using Warm 1 instead of Warm 2 for certain movies. It made it look closer to Standard while having the benefit of making the colors pop more, too.
post #2711 of 3645
Thanks again eagle , I truly appreciate your complements !

Yeah , I could not find anything at the time , they were all for those gigantic 36" er`s LOL smile.gif

AGuy01 ,

Please post any suggestion you may have as well , in reference to Samsung adjustments , this is my first Samsung product !

Later guy`s smile.gif

Me 
post #2712 of 3645
Another weird example of how SMART-LED messes with brightness - if I switch off my FiOS box, it displays a message on-screen in white saying that the FiOS box is switched off, and like a screensaver, that message hops around the screen randomly. In standard mode, the text is nice and bright white, very different than last year with the auto-dimming. As it hops around the screen, the image remains stable, and the remainder of the black screen stays consistent. But, turn on SMART-LED, set it to low, and now the screen dims somewhat, and as the message hops around the screen, a bright "edge" sort of bar follows it around the screen, while darkening the rest of the screen. It's truly bizarre to watch, and difficult to explain. Say the message is on the bottom, and the rest of the screen is black - with SMART-LED on, the top majority of the screen is very dark, and there's a lighter strip of light covering the entire length of the panel, right across where the message is displayed. Now, if the message hops over to the middle part, the bottom part of the screen gets darker, and dims, but the middle part of the screen brightens, left to right, where the message is. Now it jumps to the top of the screen, and the middle of the screen dims and the top brightens for the message to display. It's like a beam of light that follows the message around the screen - where the message is, a bar of light follows it around to illuminate it, while dimming the remainder of the screen. The same behavior happens in movie mode with SMART-LED enabled.

It looks like it's dimming whatever part of the screen doesn't need to have a bright object, so if there's a bright moon on a the black screen, most of the screen will dim to look darker, but it will keep the moon area of the screen brighter - but not just the moon - the whole panel left to right along that horizontal part of the screen is lighter, due to the nature of edge lighting. I really don't think I'll benefit from SMART-LED. It just seems to dim all parts of the screen that are darker, but it results in constantly changing the brightness of various parts of the screen, instead of remaining a consistent brightness throughout. Samsung has always struggled with keeping their panels consistent with brightness, and this year is no different. Their plasma panels have had "brightness pops" during bright scenes for years, as I've seen first-hand.

On another note - I don't know yet how I feel about the black levels - I need to watch a lot more programming and blu-rays, and I plan to watch some movies this weekend, but the blacks seem a tad unimpressive to me. On an all-black screen, I want to do something to make it blacker, but I can't without using SMART-LED which I don't want to do.
Edited by eagle_2 - 4/25/13 at 4:16pm
post #2713 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by jedi29 View Post

Thanks again eagle , I truly appreciate your complements !

Yeah , I could not find anything at the time , they were all for those gigantic 36" er`s LOL smile.gif

AGuy01 ,

Please post any suggestion you may have as well , in reference to Samsung adjustments , this is my first Samsung product !

Later guy`s smile.gif

Me 

To be honest, I've never been very good at calibrating my own sets. I tend to follow the advice of others. Different settings just tend to look... different to me, not necessary better or worse. So long as the colors are good and bleeding and uniformity issues are non-existent, I'll gravitate more towards features. I ended up choosing the F8000 because of Auto Motion Plus and 3D after I had read reviews stating it had a perfectly uniform screen.

So far I've kept most of my settings at default levels, but I've toned down the Backlight to mid-levels, Contrast to around 80-90, Brightness to 45, Sharpness from 50 to 20 (I like some amount of Sharpness, as it brings out details a bit more), and I may prefer Warm 1 over Warm 2 on Movie with 3D content. I'll have to experiment with Smart LED more after reading eagle's impressions, as well as trying Dynamic Contrast on the Low setting. Reading AV forums has trained me to leave DC off, but I've heard some good impressions of it on Low for the F8000.
post #2714 of 3645
Thanks for the advice AGuy01 , when I turn off my Mini , I`ll be sure to check that.

I`m not a whiz at calibrating either , I am more or less like you , whatever looks the best !

Later smile.gif

G.  
post #2715 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by gweempose View Post

I don't think this is true. Based on what I've read in this thread, I think it's safe to say the F8000 is an improvement over the ES8000. The flashlighting, clouding and overall poor uniformity that was so prevalent on the ES8000 appears to be much better on the F8000. Unfortunately, it's looking like some of the problems on the previous sets such as AMP stuttering and CE-Dimming have carried over to the F8000.

Hi, i own an UE40F8000, and i've swapped it 4 (!!) times becouse of: clouding, bleeding and a stuck pixel. The later model has still some bleeding on the right side of the panel, but it's not noticeable in normal use, but it's there.
Plus i must say that the panel has poor viewing angles: moving a bit from the perfect center will result in "violet blacks" and some not uniform backlight effects. To lower the problem the only way is to take down the backligh power.
That's a shame for samsung.
post #2716 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post


I will say this - no matter how I end up feeling about this set (and my feelings are mixed), this one has to go back - I found a dead pixel! First time I've personally come across a dead pixel in any of my panels. Clear as day with color slides up for testing. Even from a bit of a distance it can be easily seen. So this one's going back no matter what.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michele Gurrado View Post

Hi, i own an UE40F8000, and i've swapped it 4 (!!) times becouse of: clouding, bleeding and a stuck pixel. The later model has still some bleeding on the right side of the panel, but it's not noticeable in normal use, but it's there.

That's a shame for samsung.

+2, Sorry to hear about the problems- but Bravo for not settling.

You should enjoy the HDTV, not be annoyed by it.
post #2717 of 3645
Blur Reduction in Auto Motion Plus is broken currently. I'm convinced of this. Last year, custom mode could be used with Blur Reduction on 10 and Judder Reduction on 0, and this would eliminate motion blur without adding any motion interpolation (soap opera effect). Not a hint of it. This year's reviews of the UK sets also say this is how it should work, and it is recommended to set AMP to those settings to keep motion blur under control while avoiding motion smoothing effects.

Yet I can confirm that doing so adds a significant amount of soap opera effect. This is bad. This is not how it is supposed to work. I used that setting often last year, and it never added a hint of motion smoothing or frame interpolation. This year it's very noticeable. This means there is currently no way to reduce motion blur without adding frame interpolation.

How can this be brought to Samsung's attention in a way that they 1) understand what we are talking about, and 2) that it gets to a department where it will end up being addressed? Samsung is famous for just ignoring their customers for the most part. Whenever you call to report a bug they say they've never heard of that before, and you just know you're hitting a brick wall with them. This is important - it needs to be addressed because currently blur reduction is essentially broken. Also having custom blur reduction on 10 and judder reduction on 0 results in constant stutters or hiccups. This did not happen last year with these settings - AMP has always been famous for hiccups with frame interpolation on, but I never once saw it hiccup or stutter last year with this custom setting as set above. Blur reduction alone never caused stuttering last year.

I don't know if this is broken only on the US sets, or this particular firmware, but this has me worried. If they don't fix this promptly, I'm not sure if I'll be owning an F8000. Blur reduction without soap opera effect was an important feature last year and it's no longer functioning currently.

EDIT: Weird. This doesn't seem to be an issue with blu-ray playback at 24p or 60p. Yet it does seem to be an issue with some HDTV 60Hz content. Some channels have no motion smoothing going on, and others do. BBC America with the new Doctor Who on right now looks like it's playing in fast forward the motion smoothing is so high, and there's tons of severe stuttering. This is with judder reduction on 0 and blur reduction on 10. Even on channels that don't appear to have the motion smoothing, there's still a large amount of stutter. Very unfortunate that Samsung cannot get AMP to work after years. Note my FiOS box is outputting 720p 60Hz.

I'd like to know if anybody else has this issue.
Edited by eagle_2 - 4/26/13 at 1:43am
post #2718 of 3645
Regarding "Cinema Black", this is another "feature", like "SMART LED" and "Black Tone" and "Motion Control", that I'm paying for that I will never use. I tried it out tonight. Yes, it does darken the letterbox bars. Not pitch black but a noticeable difference. Except it does indeed affect the whole image, for reasons I can't fathom. Just another thing that adds brightness instability and fluctuations to the panel. It was very weird what it was doing in a number of spots - during the end credits you could easily see the wacky things it was doing - as lists of names scrolled up, followed by a single name near the bottom, you could see dark areas of the screen dim, and the letterbox bars were not consistent - if there was a single name near the bottom of the screen, the bottom letterbox bar would be darker while the top bar was lighter.

I don't know why Samsung can't deliver what it promises with these useless features. They promised it would turn off the letterbox bars during CinemaScope films. So why doesn't it? Why does it have to fluctuate the brightness of the whole screen, including the bars too? What's so hard about dimming the bars only, while not touching the actual film portion of the screen?

EDIT: It looks like part of what might be happening is because the panel can't dim only the exact LEDs that are precisely where the bars are, it dims all the ones that affect the bar, and part of that dimming of the bars "bleed" into the picture area - since the last bulb near the edge of the bar also illuminates a portion of the film itself, that results in the edges of the film getting dimmed along with the letterbox bars. so the dimming of the bars basically "bleed" into the video are a bit and dim the top and bottom edges of the video. It's hard to tell what's happening precisely but if you pause a blu-ray on a bight scene, and then switch back and forth with Cinema Black, you can see the dimming bleed into the picture area. Note you have to click the selection in the Cinema Black setting to make it active - you can't just toggle back and forth - you actually need to click it to enable or disable it.
Edited by eagle_2 - 4/26/13 at 1:30am
post #2719 of 3645
Hey eagle what firmware are you running on your set. I just got this a couple of days ago and didn't update the firmware. I haven't really tried it out yet with AMP on but when I did for a few minutes I didn't notice the soap opera effect with it on custom and judder at 0 and blur 10. I only had it on for about 30 minutes when watching one show. I turned it off and didn't notice any difference. I am coming from an older 60hrtz lcd about 6 or 7 years old so I might not really notice any blur but it's much nicer than my older set. I have smart led on but not dynamic contrast. I might try smart led off and dynamic contrast on. I have it on movie mode because I didn't like standard mode as it dims the set according to your room light, even if I turn everything off, and that drives me crazy. I assume you tried smart led with dynamic contrast off in movie mode and it still did that weird dimming. I think it's going to be that way because this is an edge lit and not full array. If it were full array then I think it could just turn off that one section of led on the screen and not the whole area. At least that is my understanding of the technology but I could be wrong; Just going by what I've read that's why I was asking if you tried smart led with dynamic contrast off. I still don't really know what all these options are really supposed to do but I'm going to give myself a couple of weeks to get used to the set as it is and then start changing things so I could see If I can notice the differences like you have. I hope the AMP thing isn't a bug that can't be fixed, again I didn't really see what you are seeing but I might not be as sensitive to it as you, I really liked Samsungs settings in custom to use the blur but no judder. I hope after I get used to it I can see the difference it makes right now I kinda don't see any motion blur or skipping with it off but I haven't watched any sports on it yet or played any games yet. I hope to this weekend. I am very happy with it so far no dead pixel or any banding. I only noticed a small amount of flashlighting in the top left corner and only if I got really close to the tv and stood up and looked at it off angle. Normal watching position couldn't see any.
post #2720 of 3645
Hi eagle ,

You have a dead pixel ! , I just read that , I just glanced through your review and first thoughts too quickly. rolleyes.gif

Man , that is a bummer frown.gif , I feel bad for you , but , did you do the firmware up-date ? , I`m sure you have , I know with mine as soon as it recognized my network , it could not wait to download it.

Is it just one or is it a small cluster ? and if you don`t mind , where is it ?

I understand that even if it was a m.m. up from the left bottom of the screen , it still there and you know it`s there.

One thing to consider , if you only have that one dead pixel , run the set for at least a week ( not all the time , just use it normally ) , and then do a picture reset and see if it helps.
You could also try a damp "microfiber" cloth and gently wipe the screen in the area of the dead pixel in a circular motion , you never know , it may be a stuck pixel and not really dead.

The other thing to consider is that the next one you get may be worse , should be better , but it`s a "roll of the dice" , in any event ! wink.gif

Best of luck to you , you don`t need all that ...- ( expletive beginning with f ) BS ... frown.gif

Take care , keep us posted , and I hope it is only stuck !

Later smile.gif

Gary 
post #2721 of 3645
Just to elaborate on the Damp Microfiber Cloth. Use Bottled or distilled water only, Not Tap water or any cleaners even if it says Flat Panel cleaner.
post #2722 of 3645
tried buying the 55" 8000 at bestbuy yesterday with the abe's of maine match. they wouldn't allow it frown.gif. I live in New Jersey too (where they are located).
post #2723 of 3645
Yes , don`t use tap water , you never know what comes out of public drinking water ! , really smile.gif

I never drink the stuff , Poland Spring / Diet Coke & Coffee ( + an accessional beer & single malt Scotch at least 12 yr`s old ! ).
Even my ice cubes are made from spring water wink.gif

I know , BB is getting harder to buy from , sad.

Later biggrin.gif

Me 
post #2724 of 3645
Eagle, lets face it Sammy is just out to get you. Good luck on the replacement.
post #2725 of 3645
I am noticing no soap opera effect with Blur Reduction 10 and judder effect 0 on any of my sources. I might not be as sensitive as you though...I've noticed the "soap opera" effect before on many sets in stores though.
post #2726 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

Has anybody compared the F8000 to the F8500? Both are considered FLAGSHIP models in two different technologies both of which present no drawbacks in my viewing environment. From reading all (yep, every one) the posts in both threads as well as Samsung's own advertising it looks like these two displays should really offer a great deal of what the other offers. Not a bad thing at all of course. Is anybody else in my boat and looking at the 64"/65"?

same here. I don't have high hope for the 65F8000, though. The 65ES8000 I see at magnoila has obvious awful problems.
post #2727 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Regarding "Cinema Black", this is another "feature", like "SMART LED" and "Black Tone" and "Motion Control", that I'm paying for that I will never use. I tried it out tonight. Yes, it does darken the letterbox bars. Not pitch black but a noticeable difference. Except it does indeed affect the whole image, for reasons I can't fathom. Just another thing that adds brightness instability and fluctuations to the panel. It was very weird what it was doing in a number of spots - during the end credits you could easily see the wacky things it was doing - as lists of names scrolled up, followed by a single name near the bottom, you could see dark areas of the screen dim, and the letterbox bars were not consistent - if there was a single name near the bottom of the screen, the bottom letterbox bar would be darker while the top bar was lighter.

I don't know why Samsung can't deliver what it promises with these useless features. They promised it would turn off the letterbox bars during CinemaScope films. So why doesn't it? Why does it have to fluctuate the brightness of the whole screen, including the bars too? What's so hard about dimming the bars only, while not touching the actual film portion of the screen?

EDIT: It looks like part of what might be happening is because the panel can't dim only the exact LEDs that are precisely where the bars are, it dims all the ones that affect the bar, and part of that dimming of the bars "bleed" into the picture area - since the last bulb near the edge of the bar also illuminates a portion of the film itself, that results in the edges of the film getting dimmed along with the letterbox bars. so the dimming of the bars basically "bleed" into the video are a bit and dim the top and bottom edges of the video. It's hard to tell what's happening precisely but if you pause a blu-ray on a bight scene, and then switch back and forth with Cinema Black, you can see the dimming bleed into the picture area. Note you have to click the selection in the Cinema Black setting to make it active - you can't just toggle back and forth - you actually need to click it to enable or disable it.

Another one of those things that sound good on paper but doesn't work out as well in practice frown.gif

Has anyone figured out what microdimming is?

Is there a lower model that has the same panel minus all the fancy enhancements?
post #2728 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by jedi29 View Post

Hi eagle ,

You have a dead pixel ! , I just read that , I just glanced through your review and first thoughts too quickly. rolleyes.gif

Man , that is a bummer frown.gif , I feel bad for you , but , did you do the firmware up-date ? , I`m sure you have , I know with mine as soon as it recognized my network , it could not wait to download it.

Is it just one or is it a small cluster ? and if you don`t mind , where is it ?

I understand that even if it was a m.m. up from the left bottom of the screen , it still there and you know it`s there.

One thing to consider , if you only have that one dead pixel , run the set for at least a week ( not all the time , just use it normally ) , and then do a picture reset and see if it helps.
You could also try a damp "microfiber" cloth and gently wipe the screen in the area of the dead pixel in a circular motion , you never know , it may be a stuck pixel and not really dead.

The other thing to consider is that the next one you get may be worse , should be better , but it`s a "roll of the dice" , in any event ! wink.gif

Best of luck to you , you don`t need all that ...- ( expletive beginning with f ) BS ... frown.gif

Take care , keep us posted , and I hope it is only stuck !

Later smile.gif

Gary 

About the firmware, nope - strange thing is it already had the latest firmware. I checked the site and downloaded the latest firmware, and it matched the version under "contact Samsung" in the tv menu. And when it checked for updates it said nothing available.

The dead pixel - this is the first time I have encountered a dead pixel. It appears to be maybe a small cluster because depending on what color is displayed, there appears to be several small black dots that make up a larger black dot when looking at it from a distance. It's on the bottom third of the screen, about 2/3 to the right of the panel.

Yeah, I'm a bit nervous about a swap because other than that, this panel looks rather gorgeous, especially after coming from my dreadful ES7500. The swap could be worse - no dead pixel but maybe clouding or something. I have zero clouding. None. Nada. I'm stunned. If the majority of sets are like this, then I shouldn't have to worry about a swap. I really don't want to settle for the dead pixel though.
post #2729 of 3645
eagle_2: great review! Have you tried movie mode with warm1? warm2 is supposed to be more accurate, but it may look "dull". warm1 may be a good compromise vs standard mode.
post #2730 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenee View Post

Just to elaborate on the Damp Microfiber Cloth. Use Bottled or distilled water only, Not Tap water or any cleaners even if it says Flat Panel cleaner.

Thanks for the elaboration. Yeah, tap water is out of the question from what I've read previously. And due to the coatings on the panels now, even "LCD/Plasma safe" cleaners should be avoided. Those should be removed from stores - they shouldn't be sold.
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