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Samsung F8000 -- 2013 Flagship Models - Page 96

post #2851 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by adgrimes View Post

Who is your FIOS provider eagle?

I have FIOS tv through Centurly Link "Prism TV".

RMSko stopped his stuttering through turning it to "clear". His was only stuttering evey 10mins...not ever minute like yours. Custom should not cause this much stuttering across the board...very odd.


As far as the tv turning on and off--I HATE it too. When it first happend I though that was how "black" it got but then I realized the tv was off for the last split second!! I wonder if this an energy saving deal??

Verizon is my provider.
post #2852 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by barth2k View Post

huh, I thought fios tv was an exclusively verizon thing I guess now when I hear fios I won't assume it's the same as what I have.

The turning off thing: I'm pretty sure they're just trying to boost their full on/full off contrast measurement. Plus, fool casual viewers.

Yeah used to be Verizon only but now there are some other companies who are handling FiOS in some areas, or so I thought?
Edited by eagle_2 - 4/30/13 at 7:52pm
post #2853 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derbel View Post

What size F8000 are these numbers from? Those numbers look good. Has anyone tested this TV with the Bodnar lag tester?

The tv I did these tests on is the 46" version. Those numbers in PC mode are indeed quite good.
post #2854 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast GTO View Post

Guess what. I have an HX950 and they use tricks as well. The backlit LED's and their dimming technology result in horrible halo's of light when a 'bright' object is placed on a black background. Perfect examples would be a stary sky or a scene with lots of candles. I had both scenes in the last 24hrs on my HX950 and it resulted in horrendous blooming that destroyed the pictures and turned all the blacks grey. Scenes were during Vikings and a movie. I have backlight turned all the way down to 2 on the 950. I can also tell you that the picture is no where near as sharp as my es8000.

Pro's of the 950 are great blacks when the scene is setup just right. Generally good uniformity, again if the scene is setup right (i.e. no objects to result in blooming). And generally great color and white levels.

I'm thinkig of swapping to the F8000.

Hilarious. Thanks for sharing that. Just proves my suspicion that there are no great sets out there - they all have their faults, and no matter what tv someone owns, the grass is always greener...

Owners of the Sony sets want to switch to the Samsungs. Samsung owners are thinking of switching to the Sonys. Might as well just stick with whatever we already have - just different implementations of the same types of frustrations.
post #2855 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Hilarious. Thanks for sharing that. Just proves my suspicion that there are no great sets out there - they all have their faults, and no matter what tv someone owns, the grass is always greener...

Owners of the Sony sets want to switch to the Samsungs. Samsung owners are thinking of switching to the Sonys. Might as well just stick with whatever we already have - just different implementations of the same types of frustrations.

Only issue is that the Samsung F8000 is $500 cheaper than the 950 and in my opinion the slightly better color and white level is not $500 better. Sure as hell not worth the jump in price from an ES8000 to a 950 unless you have the money to spare. Only reason I jumped ship on the ES8000 was because of the V cloud that annoyed the **** out of me. Now I have to deal with halo's of light surrounding bright objects in dark scenes.

WTF OVER!



The biggest thing that stuck out to my wife was that the Sony was much less sharp compared to the ES8000. I had to point out that while the ES was sharper the 950 was 'blacker'...she was like, "oh." So clearly the jump in black level wasnt that noticeable.

I will say that when the picture is setup just right the 950 looks amazing with inky blacks and great color balance. I noticed that the one true benefit the 950 has over the Samsung is in white level...at least to my eye.
post #2856 of 3645
This whole "no signal/no 1080p" thing is really starting to piss me off. It makes no sense to me how seemingly at random the TV decides the HDMI connection is no good and it will boot at 1024x768 and that's it...
post #2857 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaitlyn2004 View Post

This whole "no signal/no 1080p" thing is really starting to piss me off. It makes no sense to me how seemingly at random the TV decides the HDMI connection is no good and it will boot at 1024x768 and that's it...

I wish I could help. I have no idea what's causing that. What source device is on when it boots up into that 1024x768 mode? I'm assuming a PC? I can't remember if you mentioned earlier.
post #2858 of 3645
Well after looking at more clips and watching a movie tonight, and after updating the tv tonight with the new firmware and testing some more clips, I can say that I'm really disappointed with the black levels. With Smart LED on, even on low, the blacks become much closer to what I was hoping for with this set. But the full-screen auto-dimming whenever the screen gets darker is unacceptable to me - that's part of why I hated the ES series - this year we can control SMART LED which greatly reduces the dimming effect, but doing so means having pretty lousy black levels. The only way to achieve decent blacks on this panel is by using SMART LED and just living with the constant auto-dimming.

Now based on what I heard from comments in last year's ES8000 thread, some will insist the dimming is a non-issue. If it is for them, that's great. For me, the dimming can be very annoying on the right material. Sometimes you don't notice, and in general it appears to help improve the blacks as well as affect contrast, but the dimming of the screen is not something I would be happy with. This means I have to decide if this tv is worth keeping. It's obvious the blacks in this set aren't what I was hoping. Yet I'm not convinced there are better sets out there for the money. I have a good mind to go get a $1,000 Vizio and save $900. If I'm going to be frustrated, even with an expensive set, I might as well save a ton and get a far cheaper set. But I hate the passive 3D they use. Plasma is out of the question - I've tried that route before.
post #2859 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Well after looking at more clips and watching a movie tonight, and after updating the tv tonight with the new firmware and testing some more clips, I can say that I'm really disappointed with the black levels. With Smart LED on, even on low, the blacks become much closer to what I was hoping for with this set. But the full-screen auto-dimming whenever the screen gets darker is unacceptable to me - that's part of why I hated the ES series - this year we can control SMART LED which greatly reduces the dimming effect, but doing so means having pretty lousy black levels. The only way to achieve decent blacks on this panel is by using SMART LED and just living with the constant auto-dimming.

Now based on what I heard from comments in last year's ES8000 thread, some will insist the dimming is a non-issue. If it is for them, that's great. For me, the dimming can be very annoying on the right material. Sometimes you don't notice, and in general it appears to help improve the blacks as well as affect contrast, but the dimming of the screen is not something I would be happy with. This means I have to decide if this tv is worth keeping. It's obvious the blacks in this set aren't what I was hoping. Yet I'm not convinced there are better sets out there for the money. I have a good mind to go get a $1,000 Vizio and save $900. If I'm going to be frustrated, even with an expensive set, I might as well save a ton and get a far cheaper set. But I hate the passive 3D they use. Plasma is out of the question - I've tried that route before.

Sorry to hear about your frustration Eagle.
Why don't you give the F8500 a try? I never owned a plasma but very much considering the F8500 as my first choice
post #2860 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

Sorry to hear about your frustration Eagle.
Why don't you give the F8500 a try? I never owned a plasma but very much considering the F8500 as my first choice

I've tried both Samsung and Panasonic plasmas in the past. I loved the image quality, but with Samsung, it was plagued by brightness pops on bright scenes. Instead of dimming issues with LCD, there were brightness pops with their plasmas. Samsung has no concept how to make a good tv with a solid, stable image. And I hated the image retention issues. I had to babysit the thing constantly, and if I left something on pause for more than a few minutes, it would take hours or even days to reverse the image retention. Panasonic had discoloration and a line on the screen, and image retention issues as well, plus really lousy 3D. Even still, I was almost considering the F8500 the other day. But there are already discussions about image retention and brightness pops on the F8500 thread - I've already read some of it, so nothing has changed there either. In the end, Samsung is still Samsung.

If I didn't need a tv, I'd give up and wait. If I had a nice set already, I would sit back and wait a couple more years to see what else comes out, but I really don't think the market will improve. These tvs are just headaches now. Unfortunately I have no tv at this point, so I really do need to find a set. Every year these companies make promises, and every year they fall short.
post #2861 of 3645
I'm in a similar boat, eagle. I can't get a plasma (I see the Rainbow Effect/green flicker badly on all of them), as much as I otherwise loved the Panasonic ST60. But no LCD/LEDs seem to be able to touch the picture quality on the plasmas for anywhere near the same cost. I'm looking for a 60"-65" LCD/LED right now, and in my research thus far I'm lost. Aside from sets that cost ~$5k, there appear to be zero options.

Can anyone recommend anything (LED) at least a little more affordable that has even close to the ST60's picture quality?
post #2862 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

I've tried both Samsung and Panasonic plasmas in the past. I loved the image quality, but with Samsung, it was plagued by brightness pops on bright scenes. Instead of dimming issues with LCD, there were brightness pops with their plasmas. Samsung has no concept how to make a good tv with a solid, stable image. And I hated the image retention issues. I had to babysit the thing constantly, and if I left something on pause for more than a few minutes, it would take hours or even days to reverse the image retention. Panasonic had discoloration and a line on the screen, and image retention issues as well, plus really lousy 3D. Even still, I was almost considering the F8500 the other day. But there are already discussions about image retention and brightness pops on the F8500 thread - I've already read some of it, so nothing has changed there either. In the end, Samsung is still Samsung.

If I didn't need a tv, I'd give up and wait. If I had a nice set already, I would sit back and wait a couple more years to see what else comes out, but I really don't think the market will improve. These tvs are just headaches now. Unfortunately I have no tv at this point, so I really do need to find a set. Every year these companies make promises, and every year they fall short.

You are right about the brightness pops in the F8500, However they are not problematic with everyone. Those who are watching more Hockey are being the most who were complaining about it. Hopefully there will be a firmware update to address this soon. The IR is not that big issue even with last year models. That is what I have been hearing and reading. IR is more problem with Panasonic TVs and less with Samsung.

One thing I have to fully agree with you is that with Plasma you need to babysit the TV. Even though I'm saying that IR might not be a problem but deep inside me I know I will be babysitting this TV. However, the TV I will be getting will replace a Sony LCD which gets Image retention from 5 - 10 minutes still image!! It is a rare case that LCD gets an IR that fast but for me it does, so I decided why not get a Plasma instead. After all this IR did not bother me and goes away by viewing materials.

Regarding any TV you will get there has to be pros and cons, you just need to know the pros you cannot sacrifice and the cons you can live with. There is no perfect TV as you said and there will never be one.
post #2863 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

You are right about the brightness pops in the F8500, However they are not problematic with everyone. Those who are watching more Hockey are being the most who were complaining about it. Hopefully there will be a firmware update to address this soon. The IR is not that big issue even with last year models. That is what I have been hearing and reading. IR is more problem with Panasonic TVs and less with Samsung.

One thing I have to fully agree with you is that with Plasma you need to babysit the TV. Even though I'm saying that IR might not be a problem but deep inside me I know I will be babysitting this TV. However, the TV I will be getting will replace a Sony LCD which gets Image retention from 5 - 10 minutes still image!! It is a rare case that LCD gets an IR that fast but for me it does, so I decided why not get a Plasma instead. After all this IR did not bother me and goes away by viewing materials.

Regarding any TV you will get there has to be pros and cons, you just need to know the pros you cannot sacrifice and the cons you can live with. There is no perfect TV as you said and there will never be one.

The problem is I've heard before that IR isn't as bad as it used to be - I heard the same things last year about the two sets I tried, yet I still had IR issues. And the brightness pops drove me nuts on bright scenes (bright beach scenes, lots of purposely overexposed shots on Battlestar Galactica, etc.

I'm not sure what I'll end up doing yet. I'm still testing different videos and seeing how everything works out. The black levels are one of the more annoying issues for me - it's either lousy black levels or CE-Dimming type stuff. What a choice. I've been hoping since last year that I could get around the CE-Dimming and now that I can the blacks are so bad I might end up using SMART LED.
post #2864 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

The problem is I've heard before that IR isn't as bad as it used to be - I heard the same things last year about the two sets I tried, yet I still had IR issues. And the brightness pops drove me nuts on bright scenes (bright beach scenes, lots of purposely overexposed shots on Battlestar Galactica, etc.

I'm not sure what I'll end up doing yet. I'm still testing different videos and seeing how everything works out. The black levels are one of the more annoying issues for me - it's either lousy black levels or CE-Dimming type stuff. What a choice. I've been hoping since last year that I could get around the CE-Dimming and now that I can the blacks are so bad I might end up using SMART LED.

One more thing I have noticed since I have been reading Both the F8000 threads and the F8500 thread is that the LED version is having way more problems than the plasma one. Besides the brightness pops, there is hardly any other issue with the F8500, One or two users experienced the IR but they said it went off within few minutes. But in the F8000 threads I'm reading many countless issues and I can really understand your frustration since this is not a cheap TV. Which Samsung plasma did you have in the past? E8000?
post #2865 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

One more thing I have noticed since I have been reading Both the F8000 threads and the F8500 thread is that the LED version is having way more problems than the plasma one. Besides the brightness pops, there is hardly any other issue with the F8500, One or two users experienced the IR but they said it went off within few minutes. But in the F8000 threads I'm reading many countless issues and I can really understand your frustration since this is not a cheap TV. Which Samsung plasma did you have in the past? E8000?

In 2011 we bought the D7000, and although it had issues, especially the IR and the brightness pops, we kept it hoping it would improve. Luckily we also bought the Best Buy buy-back program which is no longer available. After about 7 or 8 months I just wanted to get rid of the set I was so sick of the constant brightness pops, so I sold it back to best buy for half price. Foolishly, we then "updated" to the E7000 plasma, hoping that it would improve those issues, and paid the difference. It did not improve anything - nothing had changed. Still wanting to stick to plasma, I tried out the Panasonic ST50. Upon noticing a vertical line across the screen and color blotches and more IR issues, I decided I had enough of plasma and went with the ES7500. I had that until a couple months ago, when, after 3 repair attempts, a tech finally said the set was no good. Samsung then refunded the full purchase cost through a Best Buy gift card. That leaves me where I am now.

Since 2011 we've been trying to get a decent tv, and it seems virtually impossible. I don't expect perfection, but dimming, lines, clouding, brightness pops, stuttering issues - I never, ever had issues like this with any of the CRT sets I owned throughout my life. TV shopping is no fun. It's just stress.
post #2866 of 3645
I'm curious - since I was going to swap this set out anyways if I do plan on settling with the F8000 (still quite undecided), thanks to the dead pixel/s, I thought I'd take a look at the current price on Best Buy's site. They are now giving away a Galaxy Tab 2 with this set! Now, last year, they allowed you to bring in an item and get a price-match after you purchase it, and you could even get the free item if they were offering that currently but not when you originally bought it.

But now, since they've changed their polices, their site says this in their faq for low price guarantee:

"Does Best Buy price match "free gift with purchase" offers?

No. Best Buy does not price match "free gift with purchase" orders. This includes free gift card with purchase offers."


So does that sound like if I brought my receipt in to arrange for the swap (if I end up doing that), they wouldn't let me have the Galaxy Tab 2, even though I just bought the set like 10 or 12 days ago, and I'm a silver member? Or does that mean they won't match other store's free gift giveaways? I can't figure out what they mean by that. I wonder if they have any wiggle room to allow the tablet even if their official policy says no? Seems lousy that last year they would do that, and if I just bought the set this week instead of 10 or 12 days ago, I'd have gotten the tablet. They also price-matched the set to Abe's when I made the purchase so I wonder if that would factor into things?

I still don't know what I'm going to do. But if I'm sticking to the F8000, and I have to arrange a swap in the store anyways, I'd like to get the tablet of course if I could. But I'm not going to let that sway my decision - since they probably won't do it I guess. I'd just like to know if I did would I get the tablet?
Edited by eagle_2 - 5/1/13 at 3:56am
post #2867 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

In 2011 we bought the D7000, and although it had issues, especially the IR and the brightness pops, we kept it hoping it would improve. Luckily we also bought the Best Buy buy-back program which is no longer available. After about 7 or 8 months I just wanted to get rid of the set I was so sick of the constant brightness pops, so I sold it back to best buy for half price. Foolishly, we then "updated" to the E7000 plasma, hoping that it would improve those issues, and paid the difference. It did not improve anything - nothing had changed. Still wanting to stick to plasma, I tried out the Panasonic ST50. Upon noticing a vertical line across the screen and color blotches and more IR issues, I decided I had enough of plasma and went with the ES7500. I had that until a couple months ago, when, after 3 repair attempts, a tech finally said the set was no good. Samsung then refunded the full purchase cost through a Best Buy gift card. That leaves me where I am now.

Since 2011 we've been trying to get a decent tv, and it seems virtually impossible. I don't expect perfection, but dimming, lines, clouding, brightness pops, stuttering issues - I never, ever had issues like this with any of the CRT sets I owned throughout my life. TV shopping is no fun. It's just stress.

Boy that is lots of hassle. The TV I'm replacing is Sony LCD that I bought in 2008. Worked well for me, as I said now it is suffering from IR. Haven't noticed that until last year. So replacing it, but 5 years for a TV is fair enough. I just hope the new TV I will get will last that long.

So what are you going to do Eagle? Are you going to send your TV back?
post #2868 of 3645
Hi Eagle ,

My amp is the very old , Yamaha DSP-A1 / G !! eek.gif

The best it can do is convert composite video to S video !! LOL

Well , as I mentioned , the workaround is not calling a PC a PC , at least for my Mac Mini 4.1 ( HDMI version ).

If I call ( name ) it a PC , the I get no audio from HDMI and only 2 video modes.

I can label it anything else and I do get audio out via HDMI as well as all 4 video modes.

Page 89 in the user manual is wrong , that is only for DVI hook-up.

Yes , I have ran into some fairly poor tech support , but Samsung should really be ashamed of themselves , they have not a clue about the products .

Also , after much trouble shooting , the problem that I am having with my DV79 is very similar , however I have not found a work-around yet.

Either the Samsung`s software or Pioneer`s software needs to be hacked. When I first boot up my DV79 , it first goes into DVI mode and then to HDMI , that is why I don`t get any sound from it.

All these hours of fudging around and neither Samsung or Pioneer , could figure it out.

Now all I need to do is fine a way to fix it , if there is a fix. The DV79 works fine with my old Sony XBR2 , but not with that messed up F8000.

Like you said , in image is very impressive , but is it worth the cost...

Very good question , and the answer is , if you care more about how a tv looks , than how it performs , then the F8000 might be worth it. However I want proper performance and a great picture , and very sadly the F8000 is the best there well be in 2013 , in a 46 or 47 inch size.

Next year will be worst , with the full transition to OLED and Ultra HD.

A big can of worms my friend , I don`t know what to do , still working....

Later smile.gif

Gary 
post #2869 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

I'm curious - since I was going to swap this set out anyways if I do plan on settling with the F8000 (still quite undecided), thanks to the dead pixel/s, I thought I'd take a look at the current price on Best Buy's site. They are now giving away a Galaxy Tab 2 with this set! Now, last year, they allowed you to bring in an item and get a price-match after you purchase it, and you could even get the free item if they were offering that currently but not when you originally bought it.

But now, since they've changed their polices, their site says this in their faq for low price guarantee:

"Does Best Buy price match "free gift with purchase" offers?

No. Best Buy does not price match "free gift with purchase" orders. This includes free gift card with purchase offers."


So does that sound like if I brought my receipt in to arrange for the swap (if I end up doing that), they wouldn't let me have the Galaxy Tab 2, even though I just bought the set like 10 or 12 days ago, and I'm a silver member? Or does that mean they won't match other store's free gift giveaways? I can't figure out what they mean by that. I wonder if they have any wiggle room to allow the tablet even if their official policy says no? Seems lousy that last year they would do that, and if I just bought the set this week instead of 10 or 12 days ago, I'd have gotten the tablet. They also price-matched the set to Abe's when I made the purchase so I wonder if that would factor into things?

I still don't know what I'm going to do. But if I'm sticking to the F8000, and I have to arrange a swap in the store anyways, I'd like to get the tablet of course if I could. But I'm not going to let that sway my decision - since they probably won't do it I guess. I'd just like to know if I did would I get the tablet?

Hey Eagle, See the HDTV Review of F8500, posted today
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/samsung-ps64f8500-201305012945.htm
Highly Recommended
post #2870 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast GTO View Post

Guess what. I have an HX950 and they use tricks as well. The backlit LED's and their dimming technology result in horrible halo's of light when a 'bright' object is placed on a black background. Perfect examples would be a stary sky or a scene with lots of candles. I had both scenes in the last 24hrs on my HX950 and it resulted in horrendous blooming that destroyed the pictures and turned all the blacks grey.

Interesting. This is not the case with my 70" Sharp Elite. I am constantly amazed by how well it can handle tough scenes like the ones you describe. The only real picture anomaly that bothers me on the Elite is DSE. If you are watching something with a light background such as a hockey game, the DSE can be quite severe as the camera pans back and forth. It's not enough to make me return the set, but it does go to show that no set is perfect.
post #2871 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

I've tried both Samsung and Panasonic plasmas in the past. I loved the image quality, but with Samsung, it was plagued by brightness pops on bright scenes. Instead of dimming issues with LCD, there were brightness pops with their plasmas. Samsung has no concept how to make a good tv with a solid, stable image. And I hated the image retention issues. I had to babysit the thing constantly, and if I left something on pause for more than a few minutes, it would take hours or even days to reverse the image retention. Panasonic had discoloration and a line on the screen, and image retention issues as well, plus really lousy 3D. Even still, I was almost considering the F8500 the other day. But there are already discussions about image retention and brightness pops on the F8500 thread - I've already read some of it, so nothing has changed there either. In the end, Samsung is still Samsung.

If I didn't need a tv, I'd give up and wait. If I had a nice set already, I would sit back and wait a couple more years to see what else comes out, but I really don't think the market will improve. These tvs are just headaches now. Unfortunately I have no tv at this point, so I really do need to find a set. Every year these companies make promises, and every year they fall short.
This post is very interesting to me eagle. On the Owner's thread, I posted almost this identical dilema. I have wall mounted a 60" F8000 in my basement. While there aren't any windows, I do have high hat lighting that my wife and I like to keep on while watching. There are in total 4 high hats, each 75 watts. We dim two of them about 80% and the other two we have just about fully on. I just got the set about a week ago and am debating whether to keep it or exchange it for its plasma sister (F8500).

The reasons I'm considering the plasma are for viewing angle and blacks. However, I do love the design of the LED vs the plasma and already have some modest screen reflections due to the glossy screen and am concerned that the plasma would be even worse (is that right?). Also, probably 90% of the time the only people watching are me and my wife and so viewing angle is probably not critical. Plus, I wasn't aware of the retention issues, and that would probably drive me crazy.

That said, given my setup and usage, have I missed any pros/cons? Interested in hearing thoughts about whether to keep the 8000 or go for the 8500?
post #2872 of 3645
eagle_2: wow, you've had a rough time. I feel your pain.

FWIW, there is SUPPOSED to be a firmware forthcoming shortly that will fix the brightness pops on the F8500. Keep an eye on the F8500 thread. Obviously, having been burned twice you won't want to touch it until a fix is rock solid confirmed.

IR, you will just have to deal with. If you don't game and don't watch the same few channels with logos >50% of time, you should be ok.

Your other option if you want good blacks is full array dimming LEDs. They're expensive and I don't think any comes in <50". The Elite is discontinued and later builds have problems. The HX950 has haloing but I think that can be reduced with adjustments. Or maybe wait and see what the new edge lit Sonys look like.

Of course none of these will have that ultra sharp, clear look of the Samsung LED. Such is life.
post #2873 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMSko View Post

This post is very interesting to me eagle. On the Owner's thread, I posted almost this identical dilema. I have wall mounted a 60" F8000 in my basement. While there aren't any windows, I do have high hat lighting that my wife and I like to keep on while watching. There are in total 4 high hats, each 75 watts. We dim two of them about 80% and the other two we have just about fully on. I just got the set about a week ago and am debating whether to keep it or exchange it for its plasma sister (F8500).

The reasons I'm considering the plasma are for viewing angle and blacks. However, I do love the design of the LED vs the plasma and already have some modest screen reflections due to the glossy screen and am concerned that the plasma would be even worse (is that right?). Also, probably 90% of the time the only people watching are me and my wife and so viewing angle is probably not critical. Plus, I wasn't aware of the retention issues, and that would probably drive me crazy.

That said, given my setup and usage, have I missed any pros/cons? Interested in hearing thoughts about whether to keep the 8000 or go for the 8500?

Tough choice I know. They both have their pros and cons. Some owners complain about a buzzing sound coming from some of the plasmas. Some insts they hear no buzzing. I never had a buzzing issue unless I stuck my ear behind the set. The plasmas put out a lot of heat, and I mean a lot - don't let anyone tell you differently. In a small apartment like mine, it could literally help keep the room warm in the cold weather. In the summer, that could become a real concern for some. Image retention is still an issue with plasmas, regardless what some plasma fans say. And of course off-angle viewing is great with plasmas. Also gaming is usually excellent regarding lag, though you have to constantly worry about image retention, so I would never feel comfortable surfing or gaming on a plasma. Also, plasmas just don't seem to have the vibrancy that LED has - the image looks nice, but lacks "life" at times. Dithering is another negative with plasmas.

Another issue with Samsung plasmas - in the past Samsung had issues where engaging Cinema Smooth (the only way to properly display the true film cadence of 24p material - in other words, properly display the true film motion of blu-ray material). Going into Cinema Smooth caused black levels to worsen. So you had a choice of better blacks and deal with not getting true 24p motion, or lose some black level for the correct motion. That was something else that swayed my decision to get away from plasma. I don't know if that has changed. Also brightness pops were a real issue for me - whenever something really bright was on screen, the panel would visually "pop" as it would try to tame the brightness down - a quick drop in brightness, which then got brighter with another pop if the scene changed to a different brightness level. All plasmas have ABL (Auto brightness limiter) tech built-in, so while plasmas are great with black, they aren't so great with very bright scenes - they dim down the image the brighter the screen gets. As bright as they say the new plasmas are, they still have ABL to deal with.

Of course you know of the issues with their LEDs. Shame that both technologies come with their own set of issues. Then add in quality control issues and firmware bugs, and it's a mess out there. Good luck with whatever you choose.
Edited by eagle_2 - 5/1/13 at 11:37am
post #2874 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

Boy that is lots of hassle. The TV I'm replacing is Sony LCD that I bought in 2008. Worked well for me, as I said now it is suffering from IR. Haven't noticed that until last year. So replacing it, but 5 years for a TV is fair enough. I just hope the new TV I will get will last that long.

So what are you going to do Eagle? Are you going to send your TV back?

Still working it over in my mind. I plan to test a few more videos later and see how it handles them. Really not sure. I really don't think there's much better out there. But could I get a set with less goofy complications and save some money? Of course this is one slick tv for sure - I admit to really liking the interface's appearance, not the touch-remote, which I hate, but the interface. I was amazed how old and dated and sluggish the Sony 850 interface was was when I was looking at it a few weeks ago.
post #2875 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by barth2k View Post

eagle_2: wow, you've had a rough time. I feel your pain.

FWIW, there is SUPPOSED to be a firmware forthcoming shortly that will fix the brightness pops on the F8500. Keep an eye on the F8500 thread. Obviously, having been burned twice you won't want to touch it until a fix is rock solid confirmed.

IR, you will just have to deal with. If you don't game and don't watch the same few channels with logos >50% of time, you should be ok.

Your other option if you want good blacks is full array dimming LEDs. They're expensive and I don't think any comes in <50". The Elite is discontinued and later builds have problems. The HX950 has haloing but I think that can be reduced with adjustments. Or maybe wait and see what the new edge lit Sonys look like.

Of course none of these will have that ultra sharp, clear look of the Samsung LED. Such is life.

I can rule out Sony already, because I am limited to 46" or 47" mostly due to cost. Sony's higher-end set coming out won't be released in a smaller size this year, unlike last year, so that rules that out. Their smallest size will be far too expensive for me to consider. I looked at their site, and the only set that is available in a 47" uses passive 3D instead of active - and I prefer active. Samsung's 3D sure is outstanding.
post #2876 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

Hey Eagle, See the HDTV Review of F8500, posted today
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/samsung-ps64f8500-201305012945.htm
Highly Recommended

Thanks for the link. Giving it a read now. The greyscale tracking looks like a mess before calibration. I wouldn't be getting a calibration, so greyscale looks like it might be an issue for those who would be using it out-of-the-box with no calibration.

Also, reviews said IR was "rare' last year about the sets, but there was nothing rare about it. It was a regular occurrence for me.

The thing is the F8000 has also been called "highly-recommended" by many pro reviews already, but get it home and you discover lots of annoying issues that the review never even touched upon.
Edited by eagle_2 - 5/1/13 at 11:41am
post #2877 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Tough choice I know. They both have their pros and cons. Some owners complain about a buzzing sound coming from some of the plasmas. Some insts they hear no buzzing. I never had a buzzing issue unless I stuck my ear behind the set. The plasmas put out a lot of heat, and I mean a lot - don't let anyone tell you differently. In a small apartment like mine, it could literally help keep the room warm in the cold weather. In the summer, that could become a real concern for some. Image retention is still an issue with plasmas, regardless what some plasma fans say. And of course off-angle viewing is great with plasmas. Also gaming is usually excellent regarding lag, though you have to constantly worry about image retention, so I would never feel comfortable surfing or gaming on a plasma. Also, plasmas just don't seem to have the vibrancy that LED has - the image looks nice, but lacks "life" at times. Dithering is another negative with plasmas.

Another issue with Samsung plasmas - in the past Samsung had issues where engaging Cinema Smooth (the only way to properly display the true film cadence of 24p material - in other words, properly display the true film motion of blu-ray material). Going into Cinema Smooth caused black levels to worsen. So you had a choice of better blacks and deal with not getting true 24p motion, or lose some black level for the correct motion. That was something else that swayed my decision to get away from plasma. I don't know if that has changed. Also brightness pops were a real issue for me - whenever something really bright was on screen, the panel would visually "pop" as it would try to tame the brightness down - a quick drop in brightness, which then got brighter with another pop if the scene changed to a different brightness level. All plasmas have ABL (Auto brightness limiter) tech built-in, so while plasmas are great with black, they aren't so great with very bright scenes - they dim down the image the brighter the screen gets. As bright as they say the new plasmas are, they still have ABL to deal with.

Of course you know of the issues with their LEDs. Shame that both technologies come with their own set of issues. Then add in quality control issues and firmware bugs, and it's a mess out there. Good luck with whatever you choose.
Great summary eagle, thanks. Where do you think 4K comes out in this - is it the perfect technology (putting aside cost, which will come down)?
post #2878 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMSko View Post

Where do you think 4K comes out in this - is it the perfect technology (putting aside cost, which will come down)?

No, it's not necessarily the perfect technology. It all depends how it's implemented. For example, the new Sony 4K sets are still edge lit. Granted, Sony tends to do a better job with their version of edge lit local dimming than Samsung, but the technology undeniably has some major drawbacks. The only set I can think of currently on the market that possibly fits the definition of "perfect" would be the 4K 85" Samsung with full array local dimming. Of course, there aren't very many of us with $40,000 just burning a hole in our pocket. smile.gif
post #2879 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

The thing is the F8000 has also been called "highly-recommended" by many pro reviews already, but get it home and you discover lots of annoying issues that the review never even touched upon.

I just got the F7100 Today and am very impressed.

I also went through my issues with the ES series and other than the rare slowdown / stuttering its a real step-up.
post #2880 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by PiratesCove View Post

I just got the F7100 Today and am very impressed.

I also went through my issues with the ES series and other than the rare slowdown / stuttering its a real step-up.

Although getting a 7100 you sacrifice control over the Smart LED dimming feature correct? Obviously it still has dimming, just always on. Wonder if they leave it on a "normal" setting thats hidden?


Eagle-- I'm at the point where I believe I'm keeping my set BUT seeing the free tablet(in BB details it states only for purchases after sale date), I really could use it as my last tablet was a dud(asus transformer prime 2..wifi issues). Greystone Appliances price has dropped their price again too so I'm going to try and tell best buy BOTH things and see if I can't get one or the other.
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