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Samsung F8000 -- 2013 Flagship Models - Page 99

post #2941 of 3645
I was going to go into the F8500 thread just to ask a question or two over there, but I changed my mind. There's so much rudeness, bickering, and fighting over there, I have no interest in even taking part in it. I did do some reading, and it looks like all the same issues I was having with the D7000 and E7000 is still plaguing the F8500 set this year. Brightness popping in bright scenes and floating black levels are still an issue this year, and "supposedly" a "fix" is coming. Yeah, where have I heard that before? Plus the usual plasma issues. And I'm surprised to hear that some are saying the blacks aren't much better than the F8000.

I have no idea what to do, but I guess I'll just keep watching movies until I decide I can't stand the dimming any more. As far as the lousy blacks go - I guess if I bought an LG or Vizio or Panasonic LED the blacks wouldn't be any better than the blacks on this set with SMART LED off, right? So then I guess sticking with the F8000 and leaving SMART LED off is no worse than buying any other set. I swear my girlfriend's folks Vizio from 3 years ago has better blacks than this set has with SMART LED off. Of course it's backlit, not edge-lit. But it was $500 - not over $2,000 like this. For this price I was really hoping for better blacks without the need for dimming tricks to be engaged.

The reviews should not even consider the black levels with SMART LED on, since it has such a drastic and negative effect to the original image. The only benefit SMART LED has is dimming the panel to give the illusion of better blacks. Thus pro reviews should stick to what the set can really generate for black levels -not what they can do with dimming tricks that just hurt the image in other ways.
post #2942 of 3645
If I were you and if possible, eagle, I'd probably hold off on buying a TV at the moment. It's actually what I should have done, too, regardless of my generally positive opinion of the F8000. I do feel like I rushed into my purchase. A lot of 2013 sets aren't out yet and those that are don't have many or any reviews. That might leave you without a TV for a short while, but think of it as a liberating experience from the dominating coils of technology! wink.gif
post #2943 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by AGuy01 View Post

If I were you and if possible, eagle, I'd probably hold off on buying a TV at the moment. It's actually what I should have done, too, regardless of my generally positive opinion of the F8000. I do feel like I rushed into my purchase. A lot of 2013 sets aren't out yet and those that are don't have many or any reviews. That might leave you without a TV for a short while, but think of it as a liberating experience from the dominating coils of technology! wink.gif

Probably not bad advice. But I did get a really good price on this set, and the replacement because of my dead pixel is on it's way. I still have 60 days to evaluate the new set, so I think I'll watch closely to see what other manufacturers come out with. The problem is that I know Sony is already ruled out for me thanks to them making only 1 under-50" panel closer to their higher-end sets, and that's sadly a passive 3D set which I have no interest in. Their better model will start out over 50" and thus will be far too expensive for me knowing Sony's previous prices. And LG and Vizio also both embrace Passive 3D. The LG threads last year were full of screen uniformity issues and odd bugs and problems, so it's not like LG makes a great set either. Panasonic LED/LCD sets last year got really bad reviews, and I thought their plasma last year had lousy 3D. So what's left? Perhaps Panasonic will knock our socks off this year with their LCD lineup, but considering their financial struggles lately, I wonder just how much advancement they've made since last year. I wish LG would release an active high-end set, but even if they did, they seem to have uniformity issues too.

I really feel like as much as I hate the lack of choices, Samsung may be the only viable option for the features I want. If only they could make a set with a more stable image. I mean do they watch these sets themselves? Don't they see the constant dimming issues and think to themselves , "Wow, that's annoying - maybe we can make that better"? They seem perfectly content to leave the set's performance completely reliant on technology that makes the image unstable.
post #2944 of 3645
Just curious - does the F8000 deliver proper 24p film cadence when playing blu-rays or other 24p material?

I know it has a special 24p mode because whenever I spin up a blu-ray or play a 24p file on my media player, the tv switches to 24p, which is verified by hitting the source button. But is it truly delivering proper 24 cadence? I know the F8500 has a special "Cinema Smooth" mode that needs to be manually entered to give proper cadence, and doing so hurts black levels. I know last year the ES8000/ES7500 did deliver proper cadence - but I swear sometimes with this set the motion in 24p mode looks just a tad smoothed-over. It might just be that I'm focusing so much on the issue now though thanks to AMP/custom messing with me so much.

CNET said this about last year's ES8000:

"First and most important, it delivers the correct cadence for 1080p/24 film-based material, namely when Auto Motion Plus (AMP) is set to either Off or Custom with a 0 on the "judder reduction" slider."

I should think this year it would be the same - but I know AMP/custom has issues, and causes unwanted motion smoothing when custom is enabled on certain sources (25.000fps, PAL, some HDTV channels), so I wouldn't put it past them to add some subtle smoothing to 24p this year. I'm not saying that's the case - most of the time blu-rays in 24p look correct with motion, but every now and then I wonder if something is going on when a pan happens and it looks just a tad smoother than film maybe should. CNET and I imagine FlatpanelsHD will cover that if they ever get their reviews out.

CNET didn't love the ES8000 last year, and wasn't impressed by the black levels - I wonder if ultimately, this year they'll feel the same as last year: "Lighter black levels and imperfect screen uniformity hamper its picture significantly, especially for such an expensive TV. Samsung charges too much for extra features that are largely unnecessary and poorly implemented. Although it hits plenty of high points, the Samsung UNES8000 LED TV cannot ultimately justify its high price."
post #2945 of 3645
Hey Eagle I have had this set for over a week now and I can tell you that I have seen the same AMP problems you have. Custom is just broken in my opinion. It doesn't work right at all on any source from my cable box and I don't use it at all on any of my Blu Rays or DVDS. I just have it off and only turn it to clear when I am watching sports. I had it on the others, standard, smooth, custom and they were all just bad and didn't work right. Stuttering like crazy. So for me it's off all the time except for basketball and whatever other sports I'm gonna view.

My parents have an older model Samsung about 4 years old right before 3D came out. They have it on clear or custom and I see no stuttering at all on either setting on their set. Also no soap opera effect when on custom. I was over at their place on Tuesday and watched some DVR episodes of pawn stars with them and asked to check out the settings. It was on clear and later I tried it out on custom not one stutter and no soap opera effect. I have tried custom, blur 10 judder 0, on the History Channel HD on my set. It had a little stutter here and there but very noticeable soap opera effect.

I have gotten used to the tv now and can start to see the soap opera effect more clearly now. When I turn AMP off I can tell you I haven't seen any, so at least that is good as I read somewhere someone thought they saw it even when it was set to off. My girlfriend is very sensitive to that and she agrees with me when it is off she can't notice any.

As for the black level I have it on movie mode, with smart led on standard and cinema black on, when I was watching the Dark Knight on Blu Ray and I thought it looked fine. I didn't have any problem with the dimming, didn't notice it, but I'm not as sensitive to that I guess. I didn't notice any extra smoothness with the pans in that movie so I am going to say that the 24p seems fine on this set.

Lastly I can tell you that no matter what settings I had set up it auto updates the firmware. It doesn't seem to matter that I have never told it to and that I had it set up to auto update off, it does it anyway. I didn't loose any of my apps or settings though so I'll give it that. I also didn't notice any change to the picture either good or bad after any of the updates. I had it on original firmware for at least a day before it auto updated. If anything, and this might be my paranoia, I could swear I didn't notice and problems on original firmware that first day with it set to custom on AMP 10 blur 0 judder. However I didn't use that for more than two shows before I turned it off for the night and the next day it updated.

I would say that this is the best picture I have seen on any led tv. I am keeping this because I got a good price match and for the size I'm not going to get anything better for the price. I hope they can fix the AMP with an update then I really wouldn't have any problem with this tv at all.
post #2946 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben818 View Post

Hey Eagle I have had this set for over a week now and I can tell you that I have seen the same AMP problems you have. Custom is just broken in my opinion. It doesn't work right at all on any source from my cable box and I don't use it at all on any of my Blu Rays or DVDS. I just have it off and only turn it to clear when I am watching sports. I had it on the others, standard, smooth, custom and they were all just bad and didn't work right. Stuttering like crazy. So for me it's off all the time except for basketball and whatever other sports I'm gonna view.

My parents have an older model Samsung about 4 years old right before 3D came out. They have it on clear or custom and I see no stuttering at all on either setting on their set. Also no soap opera effect when on custom. I was over at their place on Tuesday and watched some DVR episodes of pawn stars with them and asked to check out the settings. It was on clear and later I tried it out on custom not one stutter and no soap opera effect. I have tried custom, blur 10 judder 0, on the History Channel HD on my set. It had a little stutter here and there but very noticeable soap opera effect.

I have gotten used to the tv now and can start to see the soap opera effect more clearly now. When I turn AMP off I can tell you I haven't seen any, so at least that is good as I read somewhere someone thought they saw it even when it was set to off. My girlfriend is very sensitive to that and she agrees with me when it is off she can't notice any.

As for the black level I have it on movie mode, with smart led on standard and cinema black on, when I was watching the Dark Knight on Blu Ray and I thought it looked fine. I didn't have any problem with the dimming, didn't notice it, but I'm not as sensitive to that I guess. I didn't notice any extra smoothness with the pans in that movie so I am going to say that the 24p seems fine on this set.

Lastly I can tell you that no matter what settings I had set up it auto updates the firmware. It doesn't seem to matter that I have never told it to and that I had it set up to auto update off, it does it anyway. I didn't loose any of my apps or settings though so I'll give it that. I also didn't notice any change to the picture either good or bad after any of the updates. I had it on original firmware for at least a day before it auto updated. If anything, and this might be my paranoia, I could swear I didn't notice and problems on original firmware that first day with it set to custom on AMP 10 blur 0 judder. However I didn't use that for more than two shows before I turned it off for the night and the next day it updated.

I would say that this is the best picture I have seen on any led tv. I am keeping this because I got a good price match and for the size I'm not going to get anything better for the price. I hope they can fix the AMP with an update then I really wouldn't have any problem with this tv at all.

BEn,
Once you got it all tuned in did the stutter/judder fade away in movies like Dark Knight and in sports? I'm considering swapping mt new vt60 plasma 55in for the f8000 however I know big screen led tvs or curswd when it comes to these type of issues. Especially with sports and high action movies.
post #2947 of 3645
It seems not only the AMP settings influence motion but also the settings for movie mode, as can be read in this review of the F8000: http://tweakers.net/reviews/3021/5/samsung-f8000-arc-de-triomphe-beeldeigenschappen.html

Although most of you aren't able to read it, because it's in Dutch wink.gif

Well it states that movie1 causes some stutter, not seen with off or movie2. Off course this only applies to sources where the movie mode setting is available.
post #2948 of 3645
Thanks for that link to the review. I translated the review in Google Chrome - it's a descent enough translation that you can easily understand what they are saying. It's a very long and fairly thorough review, but I'll post a few points of interest below:

"The F8000 also reverses the Cinema Black feature of the D8000 back. The ES8000 this feature for darker bars above and below in movies was not possible, because in that model were less LEDs used on the edges of the panel. This 2013 model, this option is added again."

I did not know this, but it seems that this year the F8000 has more LEDs than last year's ES series. Interesting.

"The Off-and Low-state of Black Cinema shows in our model to make no difference, but in both the Medium-and High-Class we measured a brightness of 0.0143 cd / m². That is less than half of what deactivates the feature was measured and the TV at this point the better plasma TVs in the eye. A disadvantage is that the active movie image shows both the upper and the lower side what 'vignetting'."


Being the EU model they're reviewing, the Cinema Black over there has Low, Med and High settings for Cinema Black, unlike the US, which just has on and off. They, like others, have stated that Low has no effect. Since in the US "on" does have a noticeable effect, I would say over here in the US the "on" setting must either be "Med" or "High". The reviewer also states the same thing I noticed - the "vignetting" near the upper and lower parts of the active image when Cinema Black is on - I posted about this the other day - near the top and bottom edges of the active movie image, it dims near the edge as the extra dimming of the bars "bleed" into the image. This dulls the edges of the movie window by creating , just as they described, a "vignetting" effect. If you toggle back and forth with it on and off with a paused image, you will more easily see just what the dimming around the edges looks like. So while it does darken the bars, it's not without a price. According to the review the vignetting dims the edges by around 15%.


"The new Clean View Digital Noise Reduction Samsung is doing excellent work. The Low-Class has been very effective to combat noise in the image and the High mode, even the images with the most noise even to clean without the detail there too suffer. Other hand, seems to get. The block noise from highly compressed images with the MPEG Noise Filter little difference"


So they seem to say that "Clean View" is effective at reducing noise without stripping away detail, but the MPEG Block filter is mostly ineffective.

"Gives the TV when connected to a PC or laptop via hdmi not stand the full color information. This applies to all imaging modes, including the Game Mode. To be able to give 4:4:4 chroma again it is necessary to the HDMI input to label. With 'PC' This can be simply selected from an input label list"

Just a confirmation that PC Mode does support full 4:4:4 chroma for your PC over HDMI when naming the input PC. This is important, otherwise you're not getting all the information your PC is putting out.

"The Movie picture mode with an average of 92ms for the input was not really suitable for games that a short response questions from the gamer. The special Game Mode is to bring about 76ms this back. And that is surprising for such a mode high. The ES8000 just had a very low image lag, ie 32ms. However, by labeling them as "PC" is a much lower input lag to obtain. The HDMI port This then drops to a respectable average value of 36ms. It's just a shame that the game mode, which ignorant users will use, not initially have the lower frame delay."

They confirm the same thing I measured the other day myself - game mode is absolutely ineffective and useless this year. Their numbers are very similar to what I measured. PC is the only mode to game in, period. This is a shame because they effectively broke game mode this year. The review said last year's ES8000 came in around 32ms in game mode, and I can confirm that with my own experience. Last year's game mode is about the same as this year's PC mode. I thought the quad-core processing would if anything improve the lag further, instead the tv is literally twice as bad with lag. This alone may make anyone interested in gaming back away from this set, unless they're okay with using PC mode. For those of us using a PC for gaming, like myself, I want PC mode anyways, due to the proper 4:4:4 chroma - but for gamers using PS3 or Xbox360 for instance, they wouldn't require PC mode, and yet would have to use it anyways to get a good gaming experience. This means they lose all the image options they had available to them last year with the ES series. Samsung really dropped the ball here.

"For eyeglass wearers the 3D glasses are not suitable."

Just a quick comment about the glasses. I can confirm that they're the same lousy cheap glasses as last year, with a tiny alteration with the earpieces, which are now part of the glasses, and don't need to be assembled. The glasses feel surprisingly cheap, and they fit very poorly over prescription glasses. They also let in a lot of light through the sides. Very poorly designed. Do yourself a favor and get the 2011 bluetooth Samsung glasses from Ebay or another seller, or buy Panasonic glasses - which are far better than Samsung's, and will work perfectly with the F8000.

"Samsung has developed the button for the button lighting removed and the source selector is moved to the vacant place."

Looks like the standard remote that ships with the EU sets have no illumination this year - lame. It does appear by looking at the image that it's no longer illuminated like previous models. They even got cheap with the standard remote. Maybe they did us a favor by not including it over here - at least now if we want a standard remote we can buy a better one - the one I liked that was posted yesterday on here can be bought on Ebay for $10 - and looks better than the standard remote they include over there.

"The media player functionality is available for the F8000 at a high level. Are occasionally some audio or video codecs not recognized or supported, but the most important formats used on the Internet and codecs of film material playback on the TV. Samsung is even the only one that supports the new hevc video codec. This should deliver the same image quality as its predecessor h264, but with half the bitrate. Side-by-side 3D content was not properly converted into an active 3D display, but just as side-by-side image."

I found the media player to be very nice, from the little I've used it so far - it has it's own settings, and the interface is quite stunning - very, very slick. It played back a nice range of files, though it wouldn't play everything, which is expected from any media player. I'm thrilled to hear it supports the new hevc codec - great for future-proofing. In my tests, I found that it did play 3D side-by-side files in 3D perfectly, and switched over automatically. You can also switch manually using the 3D button.

"Not only is most content from an external hdd nicely played, but also through a network and DLNA capable TV are male. The only disadvantage is that media control as rewind and fast forward is not possible and that there is no preview thumbnail of photos and videos displayed."

I'm baffled that you can't fast forward or rewind media files over DLNA.

"We measured a color temperature of 6539K, which is excellent. For the Rec. 709 specification is 6504 Kelvin the objective and the difference with the measured value is negligible. We do see the brighter white levels that are a bit too much red is present."

This must account for the pink tint I get in the white clipping test patterns. They go on to say the contrast should be set at 95. At 95 my white clipping test patterns go very pink. This points to needing a proper calibration to get accurate whites, which is unfortunate because not everyone can or will do a calibration, including me.

"The gamma measurements show that the brightness of the screen across the board rises a bit too fast. The average gamma value is therefore around 2.1, with a valley at the beginning and the end. We therefore look to the color components separately, it appears that this is because both red and blue out of step. The gamma setting to -1 transfer, a better course."

They recommend setting gamma to -1. Interesting.

"To be sure we have the Native mode with the Colour Space menu option tried instead of the default Auto setting. It occurs in cyan and yellow a hue shift to blue and red respectively. The native color space so let for what he is."

I believe this means they recommend leaving Color Space on Native, not Auto. I had it on Auto. I'll have to try out Native.

"Previous models in Samsung's 8 Series had quite some problems with clouding , an effect which is the brightness of the backlight bleeding when displaying black or dark areas unevenly distributed. This F8000 model, however, we can detect no significant clouding and it seems therefore that Samsung has the bull by the horns."

Another review that praises the uniformity. I can say my panel has zero clouding (though I had a dead pixel). We'll see how my replacement panel looks next week.

Under negatives, they only list:

"Negatives
Social panel focused too much on visuals
Usefulness of motion detection limits
Foot needs broad surface"


Overall an interesting review, but like all pro reviews, comes up short, and fails to mention important information. They don't mention the SMART LED function at all, and how it affects the image. Nor do they mention how dimming in general effects the darker and brighter areas. They talk about high contrast ratio, yet fail to mention that a simple thing like a small amount of white text on a black background, or an image of a small white moon against a black screen, can cause the whole screen to dim. Still, an interesting read. Thanks for posting that link. Note that there are several parts of the review - the link only points to one section of the complete review.
Edited by eagle_2 - 5/3/13 at 1:33pm
post #2949 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedGrant View Post

It seems not only the AMP settings influence motion but also the settings for movie mode, as can be read in this review of the F8000: http://tweakers.net/reviews/3021/5/samsung-f8000-arc-de-triomphe-beeldeigenschappen.html

Although most of you aren't able to read it, because it's in Dutch wink.gif

Well it states that movie1 causes some stutter, not seen with off or movie2. Off course this only applies to sources where the movie mode setting is available.

Thanks for posting the link, but you are confusing what they are saying. What they are referring to is Film Mode 1 and Film mode 2, which only affect interlaced film content. Film mode 1 and Film mode 2 both apply de-interlacing differently, and has no affect on anything other than interlaced content. This setting (Film Mode) is only available when playing interlaced content.
post #2950 of 3645
Something no one seems to mention about the stand that I find a negative - it sits far too low to the surface. It is much lower than last year's stands. My new A/V rack is higher than my old one, yet because the tv sits even lower than last year, the screen isn't any higher. It's too low - the panel should be a bit higher off the stand - there is absolutely no way you can place a sound bar in front of the tv this year, or anything else for that matter. With my ES7500 last year, I had my soundbar in front of the panel, and it didn't get in the way of the panel. This year I have the soundbar hiding behind the set because of this.
post #2951 of 3645
I believe its a DLNA compatibility issue with most DLNA servers is why there is no FF/RW

I used my smartphone to push video from my phone, from DLNA on network(synology NAS) to TV and I get FF then. I have read reports of using allshare to get DLNA to tv gets FF/RW...that is unconfirmed.



Link to hardware pics of tv: http://forum.samygo.tv/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=5753
post #2952 of 3645
I bumped gamma down to -1 and re-adjusted the image slightly to the AVS and WOW discs. I still have the pink push with the white clipping patterns if I push the contrast up too high. The stars or bars turn very pinkish if contrast goes too high. Even if the stars or bars themselves aren't too pink, when I turn down the contrast, the white screen still has a tad bit of pink in it.
post #2953 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post


I believe this means they recommend leaving Color Space on Native, not Auto. I had it on Auto. I'll have to try out Native.

Not quite true, they tried native but that gave color errors in cyan and yellow. So they went for custom. So either use auto or custom.

They don't mention the SMART LED function at all, and how it affects the image.

Well we don't have the SMART LED function in the EU version, so hope you understand they can't review a function that doesn't exist wink.gif
post #2954 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Thanks for posting the link, but you are confusing what they are saying. What they are referring to is Film Mode 1 and Film mode 2, which only affect interlaced film content. Film mode 1 and Film mode 2 both apply de-interlacing differently, and has no affect on anything other than interlaced content. This setting (Film Mode) is only available when playing interlaced content.

Exactly what I tried to explain, but couldn't find the right words for rolleyes.gif
post #2955 of 3645
The high lag in game mode is what really worries me. As I've mentioned before, one of the main reasons I'm getting this TV is to go along with the PS4 (I probably won't be getting another TV until the Playstation 5). I won't only use the F8000 for games, but it will be one of the main uses. Hopefully samsung can reduce the lag through a firmware update.

At this point, I'm a bit torn between the F8000 and the Sony W900. According to Trusted Reviews, the W900 has an input lag of only 7ms in game mode. However, the F8000 has a better design, cheaper price and better 3D. I guess I'll wait to see what FlatpanelsHD review says.
post #2956 of 3645
My 60' f8000 arrives tomorrow. Everyone here seems to have the 55. I wish there was more love for the 60 out there. I guess I'll do the first 60 review. I'm worried about stepping down from the 65es but the banding was driving me crazy. I'm assuming this will have a sharp panel like the es60. Not sure if that's good or not. No going back though. If I don't like it I'll have to go down to the 55 to get a Samsung panel I'm assuming.
I am guessing the game mode is bugged and will get fixed. Its PC mode for now though. Cross your fingers for me.
post #2957 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedGrant View Post

Well we don't have the SMART LED function in the EU version, so hope you understand they can't review a function that doesn't exist wink.gif

Oh, well then that would explain then why that wasn't mentioned. wink.gif

So does that mean the the EU version has the micro-dimming enabled, but there's just no control over it, since there's no SMART LED setting? Kind of like the F7500 in the US? Or does the EU version not even have micro-dimming at all? If it still has the same type of dimming active, just no control for it, then I would think the effects would have shown up during testing at one point or another.
post #2958 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by eclipsegt View Post

The high lag in game mode is what really worries me. As I've mentioned before, one of the main reasons I'm getting this TV is to go along with the PS4 (I probably won't be getting another TV until the Playstation 5). I won't only use the F8000 for games, but it will be one of the main uses. Hopefully samsung can reduce the lag through a firmware update.

At this point, I'm a bit torn between the F8000 and the Sony W900. According to Trusted Reviews, the W900 has an input lag of only 7ms in game mode. However, the F8000 has a better design, cheaper price and better 3D. I guess I'll wait to see what FlatpanelsHD review says.

I've learned from Samsung never to count on them fixing anything in a firmware update. AMP has been broken for years and they still haven't fixed it. To be honest, I'm hoping the same thing - that they somehow fix the lag in game mode in an update - but I wouldn't hold my breath. You can always use PC mode, but of course the down side is you would lose virtually all your settings and options. Shame because game mode was great last year. I can't understand how they let this happen this year. Doesn't anyone there test for lag? Are they not aware of how important that is to many people?
post #2959 of 3645
Regarding game mode - anybody who is concerned, and would like to see game mode improved - please, call Samsung and ask for tech support, and tell them about this issue. It's the only way we can hope this gets addressed. If nobody complains, nothing will get done about it. They've told me as much last year - firmware priorities and fixes get bumped up depending on the number of calls they get about particular issues - they told me that over the phone last year - they track every call in a database that tracks the reason for the call - if a particular issue gets repeated calls - then it moves up as a priority to address. So call Samsung, people! Tell them game mode has twice as much lag (measurably) than last year, and you would like that resolved. Don't just silently hope they will fix it. Call them.

This will get you to tech support:

1-800-SAMSUNG (1-800-726-7864)

Mon - Fri: 8am - Midnight (EST)
Sat - Sun: 9am - 11pm (EST)
post #2960 of 3645
Some good news for me - I got my free tablet tonight! I went to a different Best Buy and asked them since the new receipt for the replacement tv scheduled for delivery next week is dated after the promotion for the free tablet began, could I get the free tablet? They had no problem with giving me the tablet - they just ran into some issues ringing everything through the computer because the replacement was already scheduled for delivery next week. But since it turns out I had to re-schedule the delivery anyways for personal reasons, they just re-rang everything and set up a new delivery date, and gave me the tablet and still allowed me to have the price-match to Abe's as well! That couldn't have gone better. So if I end up keeping the F8000, this will be a nice bonus. I'm hoping this doesn't count towards a return that is tracked by The Retail Equation - they didn't ask for a license - but the receipt says they can keep your personal info in their database for returns tracking. I was always under the impression they required the license each time to track returns - which is why they usually ask for it. If that's not the case, and they did count these, even though they didn't ask for my license, then I now have 2 tv returns counting against me in the last 3 days, just trying to get a replacement set up for the dead pixel I have currently. I hope that's not the case, but there's no way for me to even find out. I could be one return away form a ban for all I know, even though I didn't really even return anything.
post #2961 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Being the EU model they're reviewing, the Cinema Black over there has Low, Med and High settings for Cinema Black, unlike the US, which just has on and off. They, like others, have stated that Low has no effect. Since in the US "on" does have a noticeable effect, I would say over here in the US the "on" setting must either be "Med" or "High".

The U.S. F7100 has Cinema Black with Low, Medium and High Settings.
post #2962 of 3645
How would you guys compare the overall quality of this sit to the Sony LEDs? I know the es8000 had some issues where the sony last year was a very good set. Im thinking of waiting to see the sony w900.
post #2963 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by PiratesCove View Post

The U.S. F7100 has Cinema Black with Low, Medium and High Settings.

Seriously? Why would a step-down model offer Low, Med and High settings, but the F8000 only gets on and off? Weird. What would the rationale be for that I wonder? Samsung seems so schizophrenic about these settings.
post #2964 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Seriously? Why would a step-down model offer Low, Med and High settings, but the F8000 only gets on and off? Weird. What would the rationale be for that I wonder? Samsung seems so schizophrenic about these settings.

Also the F7100's Game Mode is good because the set uses the Dual Core processor like the ES series.
post #2965 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by PiratesCove View Post

Also the F7100's Game Mode is good because the set uses the Dual Core processor like the ES series.

Hold on - So a step-down model that costs hundreds less and has half the processor has better gaming in game mode and better options in Cinema Black? I was so excited to hear that this year the F8000 would have a quad-core processor, speeding things up. I had even hoped it would help improve performance of AMP. Instead, Gaming mode is twice as bad as the ES7500 last year, and AMP is still broken - in fact, more broken than ever since custom worked last year on the ES7500 - at least I had blur reduction. I wonder if blur reduction in AMP is working better in the F7100 or F7500?

I'm really beginning to question if this set was the right decision. I still have plenty of time to decide. But Samsung is by no means guaranteed to be the one I stick with. What is wrong with them?
post #2966 of 3645
It's a shame Sony is so expensive, and dropped the 47" from their high-end set this year, and for some reason has switched to passive for their better sets. Shame, because Sony isn't an option for me even if I wanted to consider them.
post #2967 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

It's a shame Sony is so expensive, and dropped the 47" from their high-end set this year, and for some reason has switched to passive for their better sets. Shame, because Sony isn't an option for me even if I wanted to consider them.

IS 55 too big? I thought it would be too but once I got the TV in there it looks awesome. I'm very interested to see what the W 900 looks like.it's likely that I will return my new Panasonic Plasma on Monday and hold out for the new Sony LED. In the meantime I will continue to monitor this thread and see if Samsung doesn't get some of the issues worked out on their F8000
post #2968 of 3645
it really stinks from a consumer standpoint because it used to be if you were willing to shell out a little extra cash you could get something that was really high quality and avoid some of the issues that others Electronics had nowadays that doesn't seem to be the case. That seems to apply to appliances as well. It seems that the manufacturers are so focused on the bottom line that they lose sight on creating a great product.
post #2969 of 3645
I really thought at a 2000 dollar plus price point I would have all sorts of options to look at and all sorts of great tvs. my Panasonic Plasma I purchased yesterday was well above my Original price point and I'm really bummed out with some of the symptoms I've had with it. I'd hate to swap it for the f8000 and have a whole different set of issues. The people at Best Buy are beginning to think I'm nuts.
post #2970 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarheel1400 View Post

IS 55 too big? I thought it would be too but once I got the TV in there it looks awesome. I'm very interested to see what the W 900 looks like.it's likely that I will return my new Panasonic Plasma on Monday and hold out for the new Sony LED. In the meantime I will continue to monitor this thread and see if Samsung doesn't get some of the issues worked out on their F8000

Well, it's too big for me because bigger panel=more expensive. I've hit the absolute top of what I can spend with this set. I prefer quality over size, so I went with the F8000 hoping for the best quality I could get. Sony is just too expensive for me, especially when their smallest panel is over 50".

I do have a quite small apartment. 46" looks pretty big in my living room. Of course for a larger room this would be considered to be on the small side.
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