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Samsung F8000 -- 2013 Flagship Models - Page 113

post #3361 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by MERKEY99 View Post

Looks like the game lag has been fixed...cant wait to get home and try it out.

And a price drop!!!!

So, how has the lag been fixed? Is there a new firmware update? I have been looking at this and the w900a. I'm wanting low lag inputs for gaming. Can you also link me the prize drop? Thanks!
Edited by Tj Werner - 8/18/13 at 7:34pm
post #3362 of 3645
I only noticed in a previpus post from another member that the lag times were way down. I habe not been home yet to confirm this as of yet. Amd amazon.com has the 8000 listed at 6999ish ...so I called the video only where I bought mine and they confirmed the price drop amd offered me the refund.
post #3363 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by MERKEY99 View Post

I only noticed in a previpus post from another member that the lag times were way down. I habe not been home yet to confirm this as of yet. Amd amazon.com has the 8000 listed at 6999ish ...so I called the video only where I bought mine and they confirmed the price drop amd offered me the refund.

$6999 for the 75" is what your talking about? And if they fixed the lag I'm after the 60" biggrin.gif

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-UN55F8000-55-Inch-1080p-240Hz/dp/B00BCGRLUI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1376885529&sr=8-1&keywords=samsung+f8000
post #3364 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj Werner View Post

$6999 for the 75" is what your talking about? And if they fixed the lag I'm after the 60" biggrin.gif

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-UN55F8000-55-Inch-1080p-240Hz/dp/B00BCGRLUI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1376885529&sr=8-1&keywords=samsung+f8000

75" is now $5999. biggrin.gif
post #3365 of 3645
So has the lag been fixed? *crosses fingers*
post #3366 of 3645
There are 2 threads on this f8000 set and on the other thread someone posted new lag times that looked very low...I have not had a chance to see this yet for my self tho.

Has anyone had their panel replaced due to a dead pixel? Was samsung easy to deal with?

Im going to try and exchange the set first but I have exchanged so many times finding the right set that the store my not help me out.

Thanks guys!
post #3367 of 3645
hope i posted this in right place.

i have a samsung un 60f8000 tv . and an anthem avm 2 preamp/receiver (manual link below) http://archive.anthemav.com/oldsitev1/pdf/avm2manual1_1.pdf

all of my tv viewing and music listening will be streaming from internet. i'm looking to determine the best/optimal audio connections.

i believe my receiver's best audio connection is the toslink. the tv as you probably know has an hdmi and some kind of digital audio out.

thank you in advance for suggestions relating to the best possible audio connections between these two components.
post #3368 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj Werner View Post

So has the lag been fixed? *crosses fingers*

The poster says pc mode is down to 16ms and game mode is right near that. But theres no update available so im not sure if it was just streamed by samsung or what.
Edited by MERKEY99 - 8/19/13 at 11:30am
post #3369 of 3645
:| well lets hope its down lol
post #3370 of 3645
I've been experimenting with PC Mode and Game Mode and I can vouch that they are nearly identical. I couldn't even tell a difference going back and forth between the two. I also duplicated Counter Strike Global Offensive, which is very lag sensitive, on my 22ms TN panel and the F8000 and going between the two warranted virtually the same experience. I'd say Game Mode has been fixed, because if it's fast enough for a game like CS:GO to make quick head shots easily, then it's fast enough for pretty much any game.

I originally posted this on CNET:

http://forums.cnet.com/7723-13973_102-598215/samsung-unxxf8000-game-mode-input-lag-awareness/

I think there are Samsung reps who respond to posts on there so I'm guessing they read my post and the few supporters and then low and behold a couple weeks later, the Game Mode was fixed. I really appreciate that Samsung has representatives who are really listening to what their customers want fixed. I can imagine that the firmware developers have really little time to get things perfect when the new model hits shelves but the fact that they are making profound changes for the better almost 6 months after launch is very nice.

I would argue that the F8000 is the best gaming TV currently available now thanks to the firmware update that fixed the input lag.

I don't console game much but I was playing Halo 4 for the first time and with the cinema black and local dimming, the pre-rendered cut scenes were stunning. I personally found that the dynamic contrast on medium or high made games pop more without hurting shadow detail very much. And even without LED Clear Motion and anti-blur on, the F8000 handles motion very well. Even though it's a vertical aligned panel, there was no noticeable dark tone smear and no ghosting at all when I was playing console or PC. I would warn though, 720p 30fps console gaming will not look that smooth obviously compared to PC games at 60fps. But that's expected with no frame interpolation and locked 30fps.

This TV will truly kick ass when the next gen consoles release in a few months though. And with the price drop that they just did a couple days ago means the time to buy is RIGHT NOW. If anyone has been on the fence about this TV for the past few months or weeks, GET IT NOW. You will NOT regret it at all. I've been enjoying my F8000 all summer and would recommend it to anyone who wants the best viewing experience LED technology possibly allows right now. I personally think the F8000 is the perfect future proof TV until OLED is matured and affordable. You could wait for the G8000 but you'll be spending more money and you'll also not get as long of a lifespan cause as soon as OLED flagships launch at an affordable price, you'll want to ditch your LED set for good! Might as well buy the F8000 now cause it's cheaper and you'll own it longer before you'll want to get an OLED set.
post #3371 of 3645
Drn94 can you confirm you have version 1110. I have tried to update and it says this is the latest firmware.
post #3372 of 3645
Yeah, I have that version. I check every other week haha I'm obsessed...
post #3373 of 3645
Excellent! Thank you
post #3374 of 3645
So can you confirm that you get lower lag with this firmware merkey99?
post #3375 of 3645
Poster eagle_2s states his tests show the pc mode at 16ms....and game mode is pretty much the same..

I do not have the right equipment set up to run a test but when I get home later I will be checking to see if I can notice a difference.
post #3376 of 3645
Good. If this is true I'm picking one up this week.
post #3377 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by MERKEY99 View Post

Poster eagle_2s states his tests show the pc mode at 16ms....and game mode is pretty much the same..

I do not have the right equipment set up to run a test but when I get home later I will be checking to see if I can notice a difference.

PC mode is around 50ms, not 16. Game mode is or was 80ms. If the latest update did reduce its input lag to be comparable to PC mode, then that's a great improvement. But it's still a little high - Sony's W802A and W900A best it by a very wide margin - and ideally I'd like it to be under 40.

I'm looking forward to accurate tests, though. I haven't been playing any particularly twitchy games, but to me things haven't felt particularly different since the latest update. I'll have to put in a shooter and do my own non-scientific tests soon.
post #3378 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by AGuy01 View Post

PC mode is around 50ms, not 16. Game mode is or was 80ms. If the latest update did reduce its input lag to be comparable to PC mode, then that's a great improvement. But it's still a little high - Sony's W802A and W900A best it by a very wide margin - and ideally I'd like it to be under 40.

I'm looking forward to accurate tests, though. I haven't been playing any particularly twitchy games, but to me things haven't felt particularly different since the latest update. I'll have to put in a shooter and do my own non-scientific tests soon.


From what I gather, they are saying due to this update both PC mode and game mode lag times have been reduced dramatically.
post #3379 of 3645
Yeah. And even before the last few updates, eagle_2 did his own input lag test and found that PC Mode was actually around 16ms to 33ms.

"[eagle_2]s' tests:

PC Mode:

- PC Mode - 33 ms
- PC Mode - 2nd reading - 17 ms
- PC Mode - 3rd reading - 16 ms

This was using an HDMI PC monitor that is said to have close to 0 input lag. I agree the input lag is very very high in regular or game mode.

Regular Viewing Mode:

- Movie Mode - 118 ms
- Standard Mode - 100 ms
- Standard Mode - Dynamic Contrast on Low - 100 ms
- Standard Mode - Auto Motion Plus on Clear - 99 ms
- Standard Mode - Auto Motion Plus on Standard - 100 ms

Game Mode:

- Game Mode - 84 ms
- Game Mode - 2nd reading - 101 ms
- Game Mode - 3rd reading - 83 ms
- Game Mode - Dynamic Contrast on Low - 66 ms
- Game Mode - Dynamic Contrast on Low - 2nd reading - 66 ms"

-Courtesy of eagle_2 from AVS Forums.

Considering how he got the Game Mode and Standard Mode seemingly correct, I trust his PC Mode reading. I don't know which firmware version it was but all the reviews and sites online reviewed the TV typically before it was available for retail, so their firmware/input lag would have been vastly different to the final or current state of the software.

From my experience playing lag sensitive games, the F8000 is VERY responsive now. Almost giving virtually the same experience my 22ms TN monitor does. If it's fast enough for me to properly play CS:GO on it and get headshots easily, then the F8000 is fast enough for pretty much any game or gamer as far as I'm concerned. Thanks to updates that is.
post #3380 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRN94 View Post

Yeah. And even before the last few updates, eagle_2 did his own input lag test and found that PC Mode was actually around 16ms to 33ms.

"[eagle_2]s' tests:

PC Mode:

- PC Mode - 33 ms
- PC Mode - 2nd reading - 17 ms
- PC Mode - 3rd reading - 16 ms

This was using an HDMI PC monitor that is said to have close to 0 input lag. I agree the input lag is very very high in regular or game mode.

Regular Viewing Mode:

- Movie Mode - 118 ms
- Standard Mode - 100 ms
- Standard Mode - Dynamic Contrast on Low - 100 ms
- Standard Mode - Auto Motion Plus on Clear - 99 ms
- Standard Mode - Auto Motion Plus on Standard - 100 ms

Game Mode:

- Game Mode - 84 ms
- Game Mode - 2nd reading - 101 ms
- Game Mode - 3rd reading - 83 ms
- Game Mode - Dynamic Contrast on Low - 66 ms
- Game Mode - Dynamic Contrast on Low - 2nd reading - 66 ms"

-Courtesy of eagle_2 from AVS Forums.

Considering how he got the Game Mode and Standard Mode seemingly correct, I trust his PC Mode reading. I don't know which firmware version it was but all the reviews and sites online reviewed the TV typically before it was available for retail, so their firmware/input lag would have been vastly different to the final or current state of the software.

From my experience playing lag sensitive games, the F8000 is VERY responsive now. Almost giving virtually the same experience my 22ms TN monitor does. If it's fast enough for me to properly play CS:GO on it and get headshots easily, then the F8000 is fast enough for pretty much any game or gamer as far as I'm concerned. Thanks to updates that is.

So, as far as "new" tests, all we have is PC mode lag times recorded? Since the update that is. Now I cant wait to get one!
post #3381 of 3645
More people's input regarding the lag is needed. No offence to those (2 people?) who claim the lag is perfect now.

i find it very difficult to believe it would take Samsung multiple updates to sort out the input lag. If they could have done it at the start they would have.
post #3382 of 3645
It is confirmed fixed. We are not hallucinating. AGuy01 was a skeptic for a long time until he sat down and experimented the difference between PC Mode and Game Mode, and just like me, he couldn't tell a difference. We don't have the proper equipment to get a precise number but I can assure you that it's definitely below 30ms if not lower. Recent updates before Game Mode was even affected brought PC Mode from 40 to 50ms down to 16 to 33ms. And then an update or two later and Game Mode came right down with it and they are virtually the same in responsiveness.

I wouldn't even be surprised if Samsung is working to bring the Standard Mode input lag down from the 100ms it was getting originally. I think Samsung finally realizes that input lag is a big deal because gamers make up a huge part of the market for TVs. And if they lower the Standard Mode input lag, some of the motion enhancers could really make single player experiences or noncompetitive experiences really visually stunning. Particularly graphically intense PC Games like Crysis 3, Metro Last Light, and the soon to be released Battlefield 4.

I played around with the motion enhancers on Crysis 3 and literally jumped with joy because of how clear everything was even in motion. I mean, seeing 1080p clarity when looking around in a PC game like Crysis 3 maxed out is truly stunning.
post #3383 of 3645
Well if it's true it's great news. I might reconsider keeping it.

I have to say I can't remember seeing "PC" and "Game" mode presets when I was using the TV. I'm trying to remember what I switched to "Standard" from but I had a great looking picture adjusted from it. Does PC mode restrict picture settings? If the lag is fixed at the cost of picture quality i don't know if I'd still be interested. The colours and vibrancy are what makes a top TV worth the price over a PC monitor if the lag is good.
post #3384 of 3645
PC Mode is very limited settings although contrast and color saturation is good. Just no local dimming so the black level is as native at all times, even on all black screens. Here is post 2406 I did on the official F8000 Owners thread:

"Game Mode has the same available settings as it has in the past. PC Mode is extremely limited in comparison, way more limited than Game Mode which is why people were upset for gaming. Sure PC Mode got 16ms to 33ms input lag, but the picture settings were too limited and Smart LED can't be used in PC Mode so black levels suffered a bit. Sure you could play games on PC Mode but it was unfair to compromise picture quality to get tolerable input lag on such a pricey set. But that's fixed now (YAY!). I'm very grateful that Game Mode is super responsive now and gives us flexibility in the picture quality.

There's Standard and Entertain picture modes for PC Mode. Entertain basically lowers the gamma to improve blacks a bit and over drives colors a little in a similar way how Dynamic is basically Standard Mode with Dynamic Contrast on High and Black Tone Darker/Darkest. Also the gamma is a bit higher and colors are over driven on Dynamic.

But my point is Dynamic can be replicated by altering Standard Mode, same thing with Natural. So the fact is that Game Mode being stuck on Standard isn't as limiting as one would think because Black Tone and Dynamic Contrast can be adjusted still unlike in Dynamic and Natural. So overall, Game Mode isn't nearly as compromising in settings flexibility as one would assume. It's also some what easy to replicate Movie Mode with Standard Mode adjustments if one wishes to but Standard Mode has a few settings off limits while Movie Mode gives full control. But for gaming, you really don't need THAT much flexibility. As long as I'm able to get the picture I want in Game Mode (Punchy contrast, deep blacks, slightly over driven colors), without compromises in the picture quality the TV is able to produce, I'm one happy camper!" -Me

But now that Game Mode and PC Mode have virtually the same input lag now, PC Mode is almost entirely useless to anyone who is gaming on the F8000. I used to play in PC Mode but have since switched to Game Mode with firmware version 1110. If you're curious about what Game Mode settings I use, here is another post from 2401 of the F8000 Owners thread.

"These are my Game Mode settings for my gaming console. Tell me what you think or try them if you're curious. I believe the picture quality kicks ass with these settings:

Standard Mode
Backlight 20 (Preference. Night time gaming may want to lower this. The black level seems higher at night so toning this down can help that.)
Contrast 100 (I like punchy contrast and recent firmware updates preserve a lot of the white details more)
Brightness 45 (Anything higher than 45 raises the black level)
Sharpness 10 (Most console games are 720p so a little edge definition doesn't hurt, for native 1080p for PC games, I have 0. I assume next-gen will be 1080p native for the most part so edge definition will be 0 for those too.)
Color 50 (I guess you could raise it? But I like a more mature color tone to the picture. Dynamic Contrast over drives the color a bit already, but we'll get to that...)
Tint G50/R50
Picture Size Screen Fit (Make sure it's screen fit. Game Mode is default 16:9; so if you don't remember changing it for Game Mode, double check. I found out after over an hour of gaming that it defaulted to 16:9 even though I had HDMI 3 as Screen Fit before going to Game Mode.)

Advanced Settings
Dynamic Contrast High (Really makes the graphics of games pop. High keeps most shadow detail but get's rid of the weird grey that shadow detail has since the detail is supposed to be darker than the native black level of the TV so it'll appear greyer than it should because the TV raises the detail above the native black level. I believe a little loss of shadow detail in this respect makes the picture more realistic, even for TV viewing I'd recommend putting it on medium for Standard Mode with color tone cool/standard.)
Black Tone Off
Flesh Tone 0
Color Space Native
White Space Default (I took these from CNET's settings. Makes little difference overall, I wouldn't be too concerned.)
Gamma 0

Picture Options
Color Tone Cool (It's preference here but the Cool tone has a higher contrast than the others, which I like and prefer.)
Digital Clean View Off
MPEG Noise Filter Off
Smart LED High (Again, preference. I like high because the black levels are nice and deep. Horror games or dark scenes in games look very nice with High on.)
Cinema Black On (This will engage during widescreen cut scenes or pre-rendered clips which really makes them pop. It should not affect normal full screen gameplay.)

From front and center, these settings during the daytime really kick ass I think. Awesome contrast, crazy deep blacks and crazy bright whites. If you're sensitive to brightness, the backlight control can be taken down a bit which I recommend for night time gaming. If anyone would like to critique these settings feel free. But to my eyes it looks awesome. Please point out anything that may have slipped my attention." -Me
Edited by DRN94 - 8/21/13 at 8:14pm
post #3385 of 3645
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRN94 View Post

PC Mode is very limited settings although contrast and color saturation is good. Just no local dimming so the black level is as native at all times, even on all black screens. Here is post 2406 I did on the official F8000 Owners thread:

"Game Mode has the same available settings as it has in the past. PC Mode is extremely limited in comparison, way more limited than Game Mode which is why people were upset for gaming. Sure PC Mode got 16ms to 33ms input lag, but the picture settings were too limited and Smart LED can't be used in PC Mode so black levels suffered a bit. Sure you could play games on PC Mode but it was unfair to compromise picture quality to get tolerable input lag on such a pricey set. But that's fixed now (YAY!). I'm very grateful that Game Mode is super responsive now and gives us flexibility in the picture quality.

There's Standard and Entertain picture modes for PC Mode. Entertain basically lowers the gamma to improve blacks a bit and over drives colors a little in a similar way how Dynamic is basically Standard Mode with Dynamic Contrast on High and Black Tone Darker/Darkest. Also the gamma is a bit higher and colors are over driven on Dynamic.

But my point is Dynamic can be replicated by altering Standard Mode, same thing with Natural. So the fact is that Game Mode being stuck on Standard isn't as limiting as one would think because Black Tone and Dynamic Contrast can be adjusted still unlike in Dynamic and Natural. So overall, Game Mode isn't nearly as compromising in settings flexibility as one would assume. It's also some what easy to replicate Movie Mode with Standard Mode adjustments if one wishes to but Standard Mode has a few settings off limits while Movie Mode gives full control. But for gaming, you really don't need THAT much flexibility. As long as I'm able to get the picture I want in Game Mode (Punchy contrast, deep blacks, slightly over driven colors), without compromises in the picture quality the TV is able to produce, I'm one happy camper!" -Me

But now that Game Mode and PC Mode have virtually the same input lag now, PC Mode is almost entirely useless to anyone who is gaming on the F8000. I used to play in PC Mode but have since switched to Game Mode with firmware version 1110. If you're curious about what Game Mode settings I use, here is another post from 2401 of the F8000 Owners thread.

"These are my Game Mode settings for my gaming console. Tell me what you think or try them if you're curious. I believe the picture quality kicks ass with these settings:

Standard Mode
Backlight 20 (Preference. Night time gaming may want to lower this. The black level seems higher at night so toning this down can help that.)
Contrast 100 (I like punchy contrast and recent firmware updates preserve a lot of the white details more)
Brightness 45 (Anything higher than 45 raises the black level)
Sharpness 10 (Most console games are 720p so a little edge definition doesn't hurt, for native 1080p for PC games, I have 0. I assume next-gen will be 1080p native for the most part so edge definition will be 0 for those too.)
Color 50 (I guess you could raise it? But I like a more mature color tone to the picture. Dynamic Contrast over drives the color a bit already, but we'll get to that...)
Tint G50/R50
Picture Size Screen Fit (Make sure it's screen fit. Game Mode is default 16:9; so if you don't remember changing it for Game Mode, double check. I found out after over an hour of gaming that it defaulted to 16:9 even though I had HDMI 3 as Screen Fit before going to Game Mode.)

Advanced Settings
Dynamic Contrast High (Really makes the graphics of games pop. High keeps most shadow detail but get's rid of the weird grey that shadow detail has since the detail is supposed to be darker than the native black level of the TV so it'll appear greyer than it should because the TV raises the detail above the native black level. I believe a little loss of shadow detail in this respect makes the picture more realistic, even for TV viewing I'd recommend putting it on medium for Standard Mode with color tone cool/standard.)
Black Tone Off
Flesh Tone 0
Color Space Native
White Space Default (I took these from CNET's settings. Makes little difference overall, I wouldn't be too concerned.)
Gamma 0

Picture Options
Color Tone Cool (It's preference here but the Cool tone has a higher contrast than the others, which I like and prefer.)
Digital Clean View Off
MPEG Noise Filter Off
Smart LED High (Again, preference. I like high because the black levels are nice and deep. Horror games or dark scenes in games look very nice with High on.)
Cinema Black On (This will engage during widescreen cut scenes or pre-rendered clips which really makes them pop. It should not affect normal full screen gameplay.)

From front and center, these settings during the daytime really kick ass I think. Awesome contrast, crazy deep blacks and crazy bright whites. If you're sensitive to brightness, the backlight control can be taken down a bit which I recommend for night time gaming. If anyone would like to critique these settings feel free. But to my eyes it looks awesome. Please point out anything that may have slipped my attention." -Me

Pop yes... properly calibrated no...
post #3386 of 3645
Has anyone tried to mirror their smartphone screen onto these TVs using Allshare Cast or Miracast?

I have a UN46F8000 and will need to pick out a new phone very soon. I figure that this wireless mirroring will work (as well as it does) if I get a Samsung Galaxy S4. But what about other 2013 android phones? If anyone can share their experience with these wireless phone-to-tv connections, or can point me to any info on the cross compatibility of Samsung Allshare and Miracast, I would really appreciate it. The GS4 is not my first choice for a phone, but I am intrigued by the possibility of mirroring webpages, maps, or emails from the phone onto the TV.

Thanks
fru1
post #3387 of 3645
I wonder if its the se to get into the cal day and night are the same for the f9000
post #3388 of 3645
Hi Guy`s ,

Anyone remember awhile back we had that run away app issue ? , Well today most of my apps , went missing eek.gif .

I had to reset and redo my Smart Hub / Apps pane , what a pain !!

Just curious if anyone else knows about this.

Thanks smile.gif

Later ,

Gary 
post #3389 of 3645
I just received the F8000 65 inch - excited....pics coming soon
post #3390 of 3645
Ok I decided to keep the replacement Tv after no one made good offers after two weeks(best offer I got was €1700 it's still €2749 in the shops here)) and cracked it open today to see if the lag and headphone static has been sorted.

The headphone static is an issue with this set as well so the F8000 has a major issue here that won't be fixed as far as I can see. If you use headphones primarily stay well clear of the F8000. I managed to watch Oblivion with it by raising the sound higher then I probably would normally have it but right now as I type this I have what sounds like some sort of alien communication frequency going on in my ears. I repeat - IF YOU USE HEADPHONES AND ARE SENSITIVE TO NOISE INTERFERENCE/STATIC STAY AWAY FROM THE F8000.

On a positive note the lag isn't an issue anymore. I don't know if this was always the case as I never switched the original set to "game mode" before, but after opening the new set and updating to the latest firmware I'm glad to say using a PC with the F8000 is almost identical to using it with a Dell 24" monitor from 6 or 7 years ago. Very responsive and from what I can tell after adjusting the picture a bit looks the same as with "standard" settings. I don't have a "PC mode" for some reason.

I'm not sure if the screen motion has been improved upon yet. I noticed a bit of judder or something during Oblivion on the baseball cap as he was looking around. i assume this depends on your settings so it mighty be fixable.

I plan on using the headphones through the PC for PC games and movies but that still leaves normal TV and the PS3 to endure the static noise. Not happy about this at all but I can't be arsed asking for another replacement.

All said and done the TV is excellent bar a few issues. You just can't beat those colours and brightness vs a PC monitor. It's night and day difference even after using nVidia settings to 'bright the monitor to life' as it were. Playing the likes of Empire:Total War is just sweet now. Just keep the Tv set to "game mode" because "standard mode" is still too laggy

I have a sneaky suspicion the F8500 was rushed out to solve a few issues like the stand being too large and possibly the headphone static could be fixed.
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