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First Time Sub Owner - Quick Help On Setup

post #1 of 23
1/7/13 at 2:36pm
Thread Starter 
Hi All, new to the forum, but looking for help on setting up my sub. I live in an apartment before so never had one, but excited to finally get some bass living in a house.

Fronts L/R: Paradigm Monitor 7 v.6
Center: Paradigm CC-190 v.6
Rear Surround L/R: Paradigm ADP-190 v.5
Sub: Klipsch Sub12 HG Synergy Series
Receiver: Onkyo TX-SR605

Primarily using it for the following in priority order Movies (Blu-ray/DVD), Gaming (PS3), Music (Digital), TV (Roku). Running everything in via HDMI, except the music which is coming from a hardline digital SPDIF cable. Also running full copper speaker wire to everything, and have a "subwoofer" cable for the Klipsch. Everything is in a partially submerged basement (half above/below ground). Plenty of space in the main room down there.

On the back of my Receiver I've got a single sub line out that says Pre-Out Subwoofer. If I run the cable from there to the Sub, I see two "in" connections on the sub, one says "Left/LFE" and the other says "Right". I've been told to use the LFE input so have the cable there now.

It also has banana type plugs for High Level In and High Level Out. Guessing I'll leave those alone? Also 2 dials for Gain, Lowpass, and a switch for 180 or Phase. Thoughts on where I should start with those or any setting I need to go back and make on my receiver?

Thanks!
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post #2 of 23
1/7/13 at 3:34pm
Have you read the owners manual for the sub and receiver?
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post #3 of 23
1/7/13 at 3:46pm
You won't use the high level ins and outs. Use the LFE input. This will defeat/bypass most settings on the sub, except gain and phase. Set the gain to about the 10:00 position and the pase to 0 (zero).
On the receiver, go to the speaker settings and set all channels to small, then run whatever speaker calibration application comes with the receiver. For the best chance of getting a balanced level for all channels, including the sub, get an SPL meter at Rat Shack or on the internet.
Good luck and have fun.
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post #4 of 23
1/7/13 at 3:50pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Have you read the owners manual for the sub and receiver?

I have, but the Onkyo manual has virtually nothing in regards to the Sub setup, except what output port to use. The Klipsch manual does have some general information on what each setting actually does, but not on the how or why I should use specific settings.
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post #5 of 23
1/7/13 at 3:53pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ransac View Post

You won't use the high level ins and outs. Use the LFE input. This will defeat/bypass most settings on the sub, except gain and phase. Set the gain to about the 10:00 position and the pase to 0 (zero).
On the receiver, go to the speaker settings and set all channels to small, then run whatever speaker calibration application comes with the receiver. For the best chance of getting a balanced level for all channels, including the sub, get an SPL meter at Rat Shack or on the internet.
Good luck and have fun.

Perfect thanks! Quick question, is the SPL meter in place of the mic that came with the receiver for calibration? The Onkyo came with a little mic and has an "Audessy" setup application I need to run.

Also, I'm guessing the auto on/off function makes sense to use since the off only occurs after 20 minutes of dead air, i.e. shouldn't drop in the middle of quiet movie scenes or music?
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post #6 of 23
1/7/13 at 4:10pm
The mic that came with the receiver is used for the auto speaker set up. Being more old school (meaning too cheap to buy newer hardware), I have never had Audyessey. I'm not sure if it sets channel levels or, if it does, it sets them properly. If it does, then you may get by without the SPL meter. Otherwise, you will need an SPL meter and run test tones from the receiver.

I always use the auto on feature.

BTW, on the Onkyo, also set the crossover to 80 before running Audyessey.
Edited by ransac - 1/8/13 at 5:52am
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post #7 of 23
1/7/13 at 7:21pm
http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1
This should be helpful.
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post #8 of 23
1/8/13 at 7:55am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1
This should be helpful.

Great thread link, thanks.
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post #9 of 23
1/8/13 at 8:18am
yw
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post #10 of 23
1/8/13 at 10:38am
Audyssey will set your speaker levels, and distances. It will also apply an equalization curve to help smooth out your room modes. However, the speaker levels and distances should be verified after running Audyssey (it's not a perfect system). The only way to verify the levels is with a SPL meter. Of course, all you need for the distances is a tape measure. smile.gif

Setting your crossover before running Audyssey will do nothing as Audyssey starts from zero everytime you run it. After you run Audyssey, you should verify that all speakers are set to "small" with all crossovers set to 80hz.

And don't forget to do the "sub crawl" to find the best placement for it!
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post #11 of 23
1/8/13 at 3:30pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

Audyssey will set your speaker levels, and distances. It will also apply an equalization curve to help smooth out your room modes. However, the speaker levels and distances should be verified after running Audyssey (it's not a perfect system). The only way to verify the levels is with a SPL meter. Of course, all you need for the distances is a tape measure. smile.gif
Setting your crossover before running Audyssey will do nothing as Audyssey starts from zero everytime you run it. After you run Audyssey, you should verify that all speakers are set to "small" with all crossovers set to 80hz.
And don't forget to do the "sub crawl" to find the best placement for it!

good comments, thanks. im going to start setting everything up on thursday.
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post #12 of 23
1/9/13 at 11:18am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

Audyssey will set your speaker levels, and distances. It will also apply an equalization curve to help smooth out your room modes. However, the speaker levels and distances should be verified after running Audyssey (it's not a perfect system). The only way to verify the levels is with a SPL meter. Of course, all you need for the distances is a tape measure. smile.gif
Setting your crossover before running Audyssey will do nothing as Audyssey starts from zero everytime you run it. After you run Audyssey, you should verify that all speakers are set to "small" with all crossovers set to 80hz.
And don't forget to do the "sub crawl" to find the best placement for it!

Thoughts on what the sub dial should be set to for Lowpass?
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post #13 of 23
1/9/13 at 12:27pm
as high as it will go
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post #14 of 23
1/9/13 at 12:33pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHAz View Post

as high as it will go

Gotcha, so that effectively means my sub won't be filtering out any frequencies?
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post #15 of 23
1/9/13 at 1:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHAz View Post

as high as it will go
While the crossover in the receiver ostensibly filters out above bandwidth content, few, if any, receivers use filters with a steep enough slope to be as effective as they really need to be. That can result in the sub being directionally locatable. By utilizing both the crossover in the receiver and the low pass filter in the sub you cascade the filters for a much steeper, more effective slope. Try setting the sub filter 10Hz higher than the receiver crossover, and if the sub is still directionally locatable, take it down even more.
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post #16 of 23
1/9/13 at 1:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

While the crossover in the receiver ostensibly filters out above bandwidth content, few, if any, receivers use filters with a steep enough slope to be as effective as they really need to be. That can result in the sub being directionally locatable. By utilizing both the crossover in the receiver and the low pass filter in the sub you cascade the filters for a much steeper, more effective slope. Try setting the sub filter 10Hz higher than the receiver crossover, and if the sub is still directionally locatable, take it down even more.
I actually stumbled across this effect just by listening to my setup and playing around. But rather than setting the sub cross all the way up or higher I set it the same as the receiver. I will try the sub at 10 higher just to check it out.
I do this just for music though. You have to set the crossover all the way up for "lfe mode" on the RW12. Which of course would be for theater.
Edited by Bond 007 - 1/9/13 at 1:18pm
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post #17 of 23
1/9/13 at 1:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHAz View Post

as high as it will go

Correct, you will want to have your receiver determine what frequencies it sends your subwoofer vs. letting your sub choose where to cut what it receives off at.
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post #18 of 23
1/9/13 at 1:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

I actually stumbled across this effect just by listening to my setup and playing around. But rather than setting the sub cross all the way up or higher I set it the same as the receiver. I will try the sub at 10 higher just to check it out.
I do this just for music though. You have to set the crossover all the way up for "lfe mode" on the RW12. Which of course would be for theater.
Anothe trick is to set the sub filter lower than the receiver crossover. Often there's overlap in the output bandwidth of the mains and subs, which can result in too much output in that region and boomy bass as a result. Putting the sub low pass frequency even as much as 20 to 30Hz below the crossover frequency can help with that. But you'd set Audyssey first, lest it try to overcompensate.
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post #19 of 23
1/9/13 at 1:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Anothe trick is to set the sub filter lower than the receiver crossover. Often there's overlap in the output bandwidth of the mains and subs, which can result in too much output in that region and boomy bass as a result. Putting the sub low pass frequency even as much as 20 to 30Hz below the crossover frequency can help with that. But you'd set Audyssey first, lest it try to overcompensate.
I have a built in eq on my Yamaha. Very little below 90 is going to my towers. I did this for that very reason as well as saving some stress on my receiver amp. And I set the receiver cross at 100 so that there would be a little overlap (dont wanna miss anything). And the sub cross at 100.
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post #20 of 23
1/10/13 at 8:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

While the crossover in the receiver ostensibly filters out above bandwidth content, few, if any, receivers use filters with a steep enough slope to be as effective as they really need to be. That can result in the sub being directionally locatable. By utilizing both the crossover in the receiver and the low pass filter in the sub you cascade the filters for a much steeper, more effective slope. Try setting the sub filter 10Hz higher than the receiver crossover, and if the sub is still directionally locatable, take it down even more.

This is great info and the first time I'm hearing of it. Gonna try it out tonight, thanks Bill!
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post #21 of 23
1/10/13 at 10:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

Audyssey will set your speaker levels, and distances. It will also apply an equalization curve to help smooth out your room modes. However, the speaker levels and distances should be verified after running Audyssey (it's not a perfect system). The only way to verify the levels is with a SPL meter. Of course, all you need for the distances is a tape measure. smile.gif

Setting your crossover before running Audyssey will do nothing as Audyssey starts from zero everytime you run it. After you run Audyssey, you should verify that all speakers are set to "small" with all crossovers set to 80hz.

And don't forget to do the "sub crawl" to find the best placement for it!

The tape measure advice concerns me just a little, because it's not physical distance to the speaker that Audyssey is measuring, it's a time delay measured between when the signal is generated by the AVR and when it hits your ear. For the sub channel in particular this can often be quite different from the physical measurement.

Just to clarify on the "small"/80 Hz information: "Small" does not mean small speakers, it means "enable bass management for this speaker so that sound below the crossover goes to the sub". 80 Hz is a good general guideline, but you should only raise crossovers to 80, never lower them to that if Audyssey results in a higher value. Also, don't confuse the individual channel crossover points with the "LPF for LFE" crossover (or whatever it's called in your AVR, that's a Denon term) which should be 120 Hertz, full stop. That "LFE" (Low Frequency Effects) is the ".1" channel and is mastered up to 120. Anything from that channel that your sub doesn't play will not be played at all.
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post #22 of 23
1/13/13 at 11:20am
Thread Starter 
Hey guys, just to confirm, when I select different input sources I get the label on my AVR that says "Audyssey" which I assume means that if I switch the mode to a straight DTS or Dolby it won't be using the Audyssey configured setup that was completed with the mic/program?
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post #23 of 23
1/13/13 at 4:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by delirium330 View Post

Hey guys, just to confirm, when I select different input sources I get the label on my AVR that says "Audyssey" which I assume means that if I switch the mode to a straight DTS or Dolby it won't be using the Audyssey configured setup that was completed with the mic/program?

Audyssey will be enabled no matter what mode you're in, except perhaps for whatever your receiver calls some sort of "pure direct" mode. DTS or Dolby are about how multi-channel sound is encoded, Audyssey is about how the receiver alters that sound to try and get closer to what the studio intended.
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