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[5.1] Setting up a surround system for my computer. [ Looking for highly knowledgeable individual... - Page 2

post #31 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by lillemakken View Post


Much appreciated smile.gif Also, on different forums, I have read users stating that games do not send out a digital 5.1. That's contradicting you, so who's right? lol

The game just outputs 6 channels of PCM audio, its up to the sound hardware to deal with that.

You can either send it out over HDMI as raw PCM (assuming your video card supports it) or send it out as DD/DTS assuming your sound card supports Dolby Digital Live or DTS - Connect. The onboard Realtek sound chip on my 2009 motherboard supports this so I can't imagine you'll have an issue there.
post #32 of 52
Thread Starter 
There won't be an issue to transmit the signal, but to have it maintained lossless... that's another deal. DD and DTS codecs are typically 640 and 768kbit and are much lower than the original 4233kbit lossless stream. So there would be a lack in quality using them.

The third option is to use linear PCM over 6 RCA cables, right?

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=40821
post #33 of 52
LPCM is digital. You will be sending the analog signal over the RCA cables. The sound card would convert digital to analog, and send it with RCA to your amp or receiver (with multichannel analog inputs).

Why don't you post a link to one of the sound cards you are eyeing?
post #34 of 52
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by baniels View Post

LPCM is digital. You will be sending the analog signal over the RCA cables. The sound card would convert digital to analog, and send it with RCA to your amp or receiver (with multichannel analog inputs).

Why don't you post a link to one of the sound cards you are eyeing?

Well, because I'm not eyeing any sound card. I don't know which one to pick. I mostly find Creative sound cards in the Norwegian online stores I'm checking, and I read on other forums that Creative isn't the way to go, they lost respect due to something in the past and it's not a good pick and it's "bad" and blabla... I don't know.

If you can recommend some good 5.1 sound cards, I'd appreciate it. Unless you're saying Creative is a fine choice after all.

Also, if the sound card only shows... "DD-Live" for example, does that mean I won't get Dolby TrueHD etc, even though I have a receiver with Dolby True HD and DTS-master?
I mean.. Do the sound card AND receiver both need Dolby TrueHD for me to get Dolby TrueHD?

Thanks again!

- lillemakken
post #35 of 52
If you are going analog out of the soundcard, the only concern is that your receiver has multichannel inputs. When it leave the soundcard it will be analog, and at that point the receiver won't know or care what the source encoding was.
post #36 of 52
Thread Starter 
So.... Does that mean I could get Dolby TrueHD watching a blueray movie, or not? Is the sound card required to have the appropriate codec as for example, Dolby TrueHD then? Since the receiver don't know or don't care?


EDIT:

I notice most sound cards supports only up to DD-live etc. No sound card has internal TrueHD decoding or DTS-HD Master?

In that case, I would need to decode it inside the receiver instead, wouldn't I? But ... I don't get this ;/

It's impossible to have lossless audio with analog plugs with gaming? Is there something I'm missing here, or what?


WAIT, is it so that when I play a blueray movie, and choose the right codec, say.. Dolby TrueHD, the signal is digital anyways, right? So the sound card passes it right through and onto the receiver? Which supports Dolby TrueHd for example. Or do the sound card ALSO need these codecs?

Thanks for your answers again!


EDIT2:

I think this sound card would do good ; http://www.asus.com/Sound_Cards_and_DigitaltoAnalog_Converters/Xonar_D2X/#overview
That's the one I'm looking at now.

So from that I need 3 x (3,5mm jack to 2 RCA) into receiver and from receiver to speakers.. ?
Edited by lillemakken - 1/29/13 at 6:56am
post #37 of 52
This will bitstream TrueHD etc to a receiver able to decode those formats. -- http://www.asus.com/Sound_Cards_and_DigitaltoAnalog_Converters/Xonar_HDAV13_Slim/

More reading on that card related to TrueHD - http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1374946

For bluray, you'd need software that was able to access and deliver that audio track down the stream -- http://www.cyberlink.com/prog/support/cs/product-faq-content.do?id=8075&prodId=1&prodVerId=947

I'm happy to help you research this. But I can tell you that I'm just googling the stuff you are asking, and incorporating it with the information I and others have already provided in this thread. Hardforum would be a great place to research this and ask the questions. Or maybe the HTPC area of this forum - there must be folks who do theater and gaming with their HTPC's.

Here is more about gaming and lossless audio. http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?281182-Dolby-True-HD-from-PC

Do you have some games in mind that support TrueHD? Or is TrueHD only a concern for the movies you will be watching?
post #38 of 52
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the links!

Really, I have been googling a LOT before I finally decided to start my own thread about this problem.
Couldn't find anyone anywhere else that had my questions setting up a 5.1 lossless audio to computer for gaming. Even though it seems like I haven't, trust me, I google before I ask. A lot tongue.gif

TrueHD wasn't only meant for movies, but gaming as well, yes. Skyrim, Metro 2033, BF3 to name some I play.

Also, that sound card you listen only supports HDMI, not analog and while I'm reading and reading other forums, it seems gaming takes use of analog in surround. It really isn't possible to have TrueHD & DTS-HD Master and play games with lossless quality too without having to change something cable-wise?

I mean, I choose a 5.1/7.1 sound card. It has analog out. It doesn't have Dolby TrueHD & Dts-hd master. I choose that Sound card you linked me; it does have Dolby TrueHD & Dts-hd master, but no analog out.

What the hell? Why is it that way? Is it really impossible to have analog surround for gaming AND Dolby TrueHD when you want to watch Blue Ray movies? :S


Appreciating the help!

- lillemakken
post #39 of 52
With HDMI you can either A) Send the audio as a bitstream to a receiver, which then decodes the audio, then converts to analog. Or B) You can decode the audio with the software, and send LPCM to the receiver - which converts analog. There is no appreciable difference. The audio remains intact all the way to the D/A conversion at the receiver. Whether the receiver decodes the audio or the pc does, it matters not.

So, the question is can your games output either TrueHD bitstream OR LPCM? If yes to either, then fine. If not - if it is true that these games cannot, then we look at the analog-out of the soundcard.

Can the soundcard decode the HD audio? If yes, then fine. IF NOT - can the game present PCM to the soundcard? If yes, then that's fine, too.
post #40 of 52
Thread Starter 
These speakers are currently on sale in an online store here, so what do you guys think? << PSB Alpha HT-1 >>

http://www.audioproducts.com.au/ProductInfo.aspx?pid=ALPHAHT1BLK Link to the speakers. This is not the online store I mentioned, just to show specifications to you audio gurus.

Go or no-go?
post #41 of 52
Just curious....

What kind of PC are we talking about here that didn't have digital sound already built-in?

If it's an older PC, you may run into a lot of issues getting surround to work, even adding/replacing a sound card. Hope you don't spend money till this is sorted.

Incidentally, there are decently priced systems out there with both Receiver and Speakers. Usually cheaper than buying separately.

Last - Are you sharing living space with anyone else? I mean are you ever going to be able to turn this thing up, or are you going to get kicked out if you do?

I don't mean to be a wet-blanket.
post #42 of 52
Thread Starter 
Digital sound is built-in as well of course. Why?

No, my PC is not old at all, so no problems on that front.

Yes, I'm living with my family. However, I can turn it up 80 % of my awake-time.


What do you think about the speakers?
post #43 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by lillemakken View Post

These speakers are currently on sale in an online store here, so what do you guys think? << PSB Alpha HT-1 >>

http://www.audioproducts.com.au/ProductInfo.aspx?pid=ALPHAHT1BLK Link to the speakers. This is not the online store I mentioned, just to show specifications to you audio gurus.

Go or no-go?

They are tiny so power handling will be poor as will bass extension. Expect to have to use a sub crossover in the triple digits such as 120Hz or perhaps even 200Hz. You'd be better off with speakers that aren't entry level and are larger.
Edited by Theresa - 2/2/13 at 3:29am
post #44 of 52
Thread Starter 
Alright, thanks. I'll keep scouting a little bit longer smile.gif
post #45 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by lillemakken View Post

Digital sound is built-in as well of course. Why?
Because if it does, you should be able to tap into the audio on a digital level via a minor adapter and not require a "sound card". Indeed, if the PC has an HDMI output, it may already put sound there too. Being in digital form already, this would mean that you would be best served by a Receiver (Surround Processor and amp) with HDMI inputs and a suitable set of speakers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lillemakken View Post

No, my PC is not old at all, so no problems on that front.
Well, if you could share the details, we could look up it's technical specs for you and see if it already has this capacity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lillemakken View Post

Yes, I'm living with my family. However, I can turn it up 80 % of my awake-time.
Fortunate. I have friends who were thinking along the same lines as you, but were renting an apartment. After spending a substantial sum on their gaming sound, they got kicked out for making too much noise and disturbing the neighbors. Bad scene all around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lillemakken View Post

What do you think about the speakers?
That last set that's more like it - maybe a little small power-wise. There was no price and it's hard to judge value without it.. I guess we'll have to leave that to you.


Finally, you mentioned "Blu-Ray" in your initial post, but not since. Does your PC have a Blu-Ray player, or is this something you need to add? I wasn't clear on that. Were you going to add it to the PC or would you consider something like a PS3?
post #46 of 52
Thread Starter 
@50BMG

Well, I was reading and really wondering about that now lately as I have read further. Do I need a sound card? Can't I just plug the HDMI right into my GPU (Gigabyte 670 GTX 4GB) whilst the other end goes into the receiver and then speakers? Won't I get lossless 5.1 from that? I will, right?

Specs;

Asus P8Z68-V Pro
Corsair DDR3 16 GB RAM
Gigabyte 670 GTX 4GB
Noctua NH-D14


Oh, and a little update, I think I have decided to go with these; "Dynavoice Magic F-7 EX 5.1". They cost 786,433 USD.

http://surround.no/Produkter/Surroundpakker/5-1-med-sub/Dynavoice-Magic-F-7-EX-51-Pakke-Black-High-Glossy-100632-p0000000639.aspx

Site is unfortunately in Norwegian, but I think you can make out a rough translation and the numbers next to them.

Well, the Blu-Ray player issue is something I don't really need help with. I'll buy a blu-ray player supposedly. It's the connections and the transfer of the LOSSLESS 5.1 signals I worry about smile.gif

But, look at my question above, I don't really need a sound card or?
post #47 of 52
The manual for your Motherboard indicates it has an HDMI output, and that there is a BIOS setting to send SPDIF audio to it, or to the TosLink connector at the same locale.

1) You do not need a sound card.
2) You'll get the most flexibility if you send Digital audio to your Receiver via the HDMI output. [You will require an HDMI cable]
3) Since you're not going with an internal BD drive for the PC as your player, it will obviously be best to hook the BD Player to the Receiver. This will provide you with Surround Sound while playing videos on the BD Player. (Disk, USB FLash and Online sources)

Perhaps you should consider equipping the sound system for 7.1 rather than just 5.1? It would be better (and cheaper) to do now, than later.

Is the PC display also to be the TV or Entertainment monitor?









.
post #48 of 52
Thread Starter 
Thanks for your very informative answers 50BMG!

I may however go with an internal BD player for PC. Or at least that's what I meant earlier with my Blu-ray player sentence ^^

A 7.1 seems a bit too much. This is all going to be in my "not-so-big" gaming room, and as I have read on various forums the past weeks, you cannot hear the difference between 5.1 and 7.1 in such a small room, or at least, you won't get anywhere close to the effect of a 7.1 over a 5.1, if you know what I mean.

And what are the benefits of going with an external blu-ray player over an internal one in the PC? Any major advantages of that?

I don't know what you mean with "Is the PC display also to be the TV or Entertainment monitor?", this is all going to be for my computer, computer screen will act as a computer screen smile.gif


Thanks again!

- lillemakken


P.S; My GPU has HDMI out, and that is the one I will plug the HDMI cable from, right? Not the motherboard?
post #49 of 52
Yes, as we discussed (offline), you are going to get yourself a receiver and first try to use the GPU's HDMI out for your audio. As we discovered, people using your GPU have accomplished bitstreaming of TrueHD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lillemakken View Post

P.S; My GPU has HDMI out, and that is the one I will plug the HDMI cable from, right? Not the motherboard?
post #50 of 52
Thread Starter 
Yep, indeed. But that guy didn't give many details, he just confirmed it was possible. Maybe he did something else too? :0
post #51 of 52
What we have is a proof of concept. That is a good place to start. And there are more:

Here
Here
Here

The last one starts off as a problem, but ends with a solution. The key was making sure the playback device was configured as 7.1. In your case, if I recall, the receiver you are looking at is 5.1 - so it may need to be 5.1.
post #52 of 52
Sorry to re-arrange your questions, but I think my answers will make the most sense like this...
Quote:
Originally Posted by lillemakken View Post

... My GPU has HDMI out, and that is the one I will plug the HDMI cable from, right? Not the motherboard?
Let's begin here... what resolution do you run your PC monitor at? If you run it at anything other than 1920x1080 it's unlikely that the Receiver can do anything with the video. It may confuse the Receiver hopelessly to try. Your best bet will be to use the HDMI cable from your motherboard to the receiver only for the audio.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lillemakken View Post

I don't know what you mean with "Is the PC display also to be the TV or Entertainment monitor?", this is all going to be for my computer, computer screen will act as a computer screen smile.gif
What I meant was: Are you planning to watch blu-rays on the PC monitor, or do you have a TV also.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lillemakken View Post

I may however go with an internal BD player for PC. Or at least that's what I meant earlier with my Blu-ray player sentence ^^
Ok, Obviously I misunderstood then. Frankly, I don't know anything about using a PC to play Blu-Rays from an internal Blu-Ray drive. Someone else will have to assist you with that - I'd only be guessing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lillemakken View Post

And what are the benefits of going with an external blu-ray player over an internal one in the PC? Any major advantages of that?
Well, I can only relate how I use my systems. Originally, I had a PS3 which I used as a Blu-Ray player, and occasionally to game on. Since then, I added another Blu-Ray player. It's better at playing online videos and it has 3D. [no... I don't keep the PS3 updated to the latest firmware)

My "Video" display is a 1920x1080p Video projector, and a 100" wall screen. I often put on a Video or Music-Video, or TV program on the projector and play online games simultaneously on my PC (separate display, higher resolution than HD Video). My PC has it's own Surround Sound. Of course, I can output the PC to the projector, but this isn't as cool an idea as I first thought. I like to leave my PC software load relatively stable so that Game play is optimized. If I had to duplex it as a video player, I'd be endlessly messing with settings to optimize both.

I really can't imagine being restricted to only the PC's display for both Videos and Games. It's just not my way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lillemakken View Post

A 7.1 seems a bit too much. This is all going to be in my "not-so-big" gaming room, and as I have read on various forums the past weeks, you cannot hear the difference between 5.1 and 7.1 in such a small room, or at least, you won't get anywhere close to the effect of a 7.1 over a 5.1, if you know what I mean.
Actually, I don't agree with that at all. A Surround Sound system can be used to make the room size feel like anything you want. It will give you the ability to "Acoustically Image" the sound from your various sources - a sense of 3D as if you were actually present in the game, to the degree that you can hear others coming up behind you or know what direction to look for shooters by the direction of the report of their weapons fire.

With 5.1 there is no speaker "behind you". Imaging of sound from that direction is vastly improved by the two extra speakers in 7.1 if you make them Rear speakers.

The cost difference between a 7.1 receiver and a 5.1 unit is minimal. You'll save a lot of money buying 7.1 now, rather than having to buy another whole receiver to add it later. If you have cost concerns, get the 7.1 receiver and run it as 5.1 until you can afford the two additional speakers.

Well, that's my humble opinion anyway. (BTW: Your Motherboard has 7.1 Audio)


I hope this has been of some help to you.
Edited by 50BMG - 2/4/13 at 9:58pm
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