Svs subs and new member - Page 2

PSA has a XV15 b-stock for only $720 shipped! That a hell of a lot of value for that price!

If you want a powerful sub from a more established company, look at the Hsu VTF3. Its is $800 shipped, it will be much closer in performance to a XV15 than the PB12 NSD. Hsu is the grand daddy of all ID subwoofer companies, and is still one of the best and most reliable.

Power Sound Audio has a better warranty on their amps though. Tom Vodhanel has been in the industry for a LONG time and was the "V" in SV Sound. So I wouldn't really think you'd have anything to worry about. I don't think PSA in going anywhere any time soon. Beside up with their sales.
Edited by jbrown15 - 1/15/13 at 11:21pm

I may be wrong about this but I do not think any of the PSA has a finish option besides the industrial finish of the ones you see on the website.

I just asked Tom for PSA to compare the xv15 to a sub in the svs lineup...here was his response:

In terms of output and extension the PB12 plus (with 800w amp) would be close if you set it in 16hz mode. The XV15 will still have a little more output though. This is based on the test measurements of both subwoofers at www.audioholics.com The XV15 and Pb12plus were almost identical in output capabilities from 20-63hz(the entire range measured) with the PB12plus in 20hz mode. If you set it to 16hz mode you';ll match the extension capabilities of the XV15 but you'll lose a dB or two in max output.

Yeah I didn't know if it was still available after I posted that. Those B-stocks usually go really quick.

PB12-plus actually has some advantage and has more advantage in the 20-25Hz range, triple port 3 "and surely something bigger venue and better amplifier gives some advantage.

Besides, I'm sure that the PB12-Plus has a much lower THD than the XV15. Another thing is, if it really is audible or not ...

Anyway if the finish does not matter (The XV15 I find ugly), XV15 is a great buy for the price. Still I like the felxibilidad and finishes offered SVS (most beautiful).

I think it is a kind of velour type material. I have heard in person it looks a little more grey than black. Never owned one so can't speak from experience...just what I have read on here.

Hello :-)

SVS cylinders, are covered with a fabric with high quality tercipelo. I had the PC13-Ultra DSP, I sold a month ago.

Now I have a PB12-Plus DSP, I am more than satisfied, because the difference with the PC13 was tiny, 2 dbs approximate. To others I like the look of the triple port 3 "and the driver in front (imposes more), gives real fear, lol.

Regarding the difference Klipsch PB12-NSD and I would be inclined by the NSD, for sure, but has a better controller is 12 "to 15 frenta" Klipsch. Then there is the NSD DSP control, this will make the subwoofer sound always under control when operating in or near the limit. The finish also seems somewhat better in the NSD and also surely have less THD, so I do not pass on measurements of 8% and that is extremely low.

While the Klipsch seems a good beast, a friend of mine has proven and says that when he pushes too hard, there is noise in the harbor very strong.

Sure the finish of the PSA subs isn't as fancy as something with a piano finish, but really when you see it in person its not really that bad at all. And it seems to blend in with my other speakers very well.

I don't think you would be paying sales tax for an out of state order. As for the SW115 vs the PC12 NSD, I think the SW115 would be better because it is almost certain to have more mid and upper bass. Look at this chart, compare the PB12 NSD's measurements to all of the other subs, especially in the mid and upper bass regions (40 hz and above). This is where the bulk of bass content lies. The NSD gets outperformed by even entry level subs in this region, so much so that it has the weakest measured output of all subs at 60 hz, one of the most common frequencies for movies and music. To be fair, the NSD has excellent distortion characteristics and decent output at its 20 hz tuning point. But there is no way the SW115 is going to have less output from 30 hz on up, and I think it will have a lot more, the specs would suggest that anyway. Between the two, I think in practice the Klipsch will sound more impressive. Many guys around here will instinctively recommend internet direct brands over store brands, but my feeling in this case is the SW115 could be an underrated sub, and the PB12-NSD is very much an overrated sub which gets recommended more for its SVS brand name than its actual performance. Klipsch did have a over-achiever subwoofer in their RW-12d, especially at its frequent sale price of $300.

If I were you I would definitely swing for the XV15, and hold onto the SW115 long enough to compare the two. I, and others around here, would certainly be interested in reading about a comparison between the two.

You would only pay sales tax on a sub from PSA if you are located in Ohio state. Anyone out of state wouldn't pay the tax.

I wouldn't be concerned for at least two reasons:
- A home is environmentally much more stable than an automobile.
- If PSA is using a pulp/paper cone, I'm willing to bet that it's anything but a bottom-of-the-line engineered product.
Edited by eljaycanuck - 1/17/13 at 4:57am

The composition of the cone doesn't really matter too much for subwoofers. You could have aluminum cones, kevlar, or certain kinds of plastics, they all have to be light and stiff, and so they are all fragile, so you have to be careful with any of them, The nice thing about down-firing subs is the cone is more protected from stuff like accidents, kids, pets, etc.

Then why pay the premium for exotic materials over paper? In the simple, is it really nothing more than a large X-max, coupled to a cone with a bad-a$$ magnet to counter the affects of the magnetic coil? Is everything else, nothing more than window dressing?

Beeman, my understanding is for subwoofers the cone material doesn't make much of a difference. For mid woofers and tweeters, there will be a difference, here is a good page which discusses that. But for subwoofers, it is all air displacement, once you have something stiff enough to withstand bending or breakup. If you want a sub with extreme excursion, I would guess you would want a stiffer cone, which I suppose is why TC Sounds and some other manufacturers use aluminum and stiff metals. But the penalty for that is the cone is heavier and needs more force to drive it.

Thanks for the heads-up and the link. Reading the article now.

Currently I'm playing with new drivers that have some sort of plastic cones with a medium excursion of 14mm which is why I ask.

Okay, that went over my pay grade.

A poor skipper like me? All I can do is buy and hope I don't boink myself. I'm giving the new drivers some break-in time and then I'll set up the recording gear and see what REW has to say about the new drivers and radiators in comparison to the eighteen year old paper cone drivers and radiators.

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 1/17/13 at 10:57am

If I had those drivers I would put them in some sonotubes and port them. In sonotubes, they will be lighter, have a smaller footprint, it will take less construction time and effort, and a long, big port will fit neatly into a a sonotube so you can tune it as low as you like with no problems. People say cylinder subs are ugly but you can paint them, or put some kind of fine veneer or laminate on them, and make them look pretty if you wanted to, and it wouldn't take a lot of effort.

Too late. I already have each one in a 2^3 box with a 12" radiator. I retrofitted a pair of eighteen year old Klipsch, SW12-II's that are eighteen years old.

Using the posted T-S Parameters, I tried but couldn't find corresponding cabinet information for a 12" radiator.

Currently, they're being broken in using cable provided 50's/60's music. Currently playing: Sonny and Cher: "The Beat Goes On." Definitely different then what our twenty-four year old son listens to.

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 1/17/13 at 11:29am

If I'm not mistaken, shouldn't radiators be treated the same as ports from the perspective of the driver?

In a sense of the word, yes. But I couldn't find any online information on how to treat a radiator as opposed to a vent as the vent is a WxL sort of displacement measurement where as the radiator is a cone displacement measurement. All the online calculators that I was able to find didn't give information for radiators and how it would affect the different T-S parameters.

Every time I find a calculator, I find that some of the information it's requesting is missing and I'm clueless how to fill in the T-S blanks.

Yes. They operate in a nearly identical fashion. The usual reason for using a PR rather than a vent is when the cab is too small to allow a duct of sufficient length to fit inside.

Congrats on your decision. In the end, the buyer is the final arbiter and only the buyer can know if their decision was the right one. Congratulations on your choice and I'm sure i post for everybody when I post about eagerly waiting on your first impressions.

(Yup!}

Great choice Mahkey - enjoy your new sub!!