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Samsung F8500 - new industry standard? [please use links to newer thread] - Page 51  

post #1501 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by pred1973 View Post

I don't want to get into an extensive debate with you, I don't have the stamina rogo has biggrin.gif but I see you in the ST60 thread as well, so you know what Chad's initial reports are. If the ST60 is measuring as favorably as it is compared to the F8500, then claiming "you have no idea" how someone could come to the conclusion that something a model or two above could easily surpass the F8500 is a bit disingenuous isn't it ?

Not disingenuous at all. You're choosing to look at black levels only and that's your prerogative. But others are looking at both black levels and brightness. There is nothing I've seen thus far to indicate the new 60s will match the 8500's brightness.

I would agree that they'll exceed the 8500's black levels. By how much and how visible that will be depends on your room and the disparity of those black levels. Same is true on the top end with brightness.

Fair & balanced, nothing disingenuous. wink.gif
post #1502 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by mightymouseusf View Post

Just had my 64F8500 delivered! The set looks great but I find it a bit strange that the stand rocks a little bit. I'm disappointed that I won't be able to have it calibrated for a while. I usually have the guys at Avical do my calibrations, and they are touring in New York right now. Since I couldn't get Samsung to give me a delivery date, I missed the chance to schedule a calibration. Who knows how long it'll be before they come back here frown.gif Guess I'll have settle for a Spears and Muncil blu ray calibration for now. I'll post impressions and pics in a day or so once I've had a chance to play around with it a bit.

Mightymouseusf, you don't want it calibrated right away anyway. You want at least 100 hours or more on the panel before you do that. So maybe that was a blessing in disguise. smile.gif
post #1503 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by mightymouseusf View Post

Can anyone help a brother out with some break in instructions? How long? Where can I get slides...etc.

I never used slides with my plasmas and never had an issue with break in. Stay away from logos or static content as well as too much letter boxed material or 4:3 programming and don't go crazy with brightness & contrast, be conservative. Do that for 100 hours or so and you should be OK.
post #1504 of 1868
That's a great way to look at it Ken thanks. Also the break in information is much appreciated.
post #1505 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Not disingenuous at all. You're choosing to look at black levels only and that's your prerogative. But others are looking at both black levels and brightness. There is nothing I've seen thus far to indicate the new 60s will match the 8500's brightness.

I would agree that they'll exceed the 8500's black levels. By how much and how visible that will be depends on your room and the disparity of those black levels. Same is true on the top end with brightness.

Fair & balanced, nothing disingenuous. wink.gif

Ken...really ? You are using brightness as your measuring stick and claiming I am using black level as mine, and that is not the case at all. I even specified color accuracy, and contrast as other measurable indicators which for some reason you seem to have neglected to include in your presumption of my prerogative. It is the sum of all those aspects, and I fail to see where I focused on any one of them over the rest.
post #1506 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by pred1973 View Post

Ken...really ? You are using brightness as your measuring stick and claiming I am using black level as mine, and that is not the case at all. I even specified color accuracy, and contrast as other measurable indicators which for some reason you seem to have neglected to include in your presumption of my prerogative. It is the sum of all those aspects, and I fail to see where I focused on any one of them over the rest.

Ken was goign based off what you said, since the color accuracy etc hasnt been reported as of yet, the only thing to base your statement on was the black level and ANSI level results. If it was a full report then I woulld agree, but I can see where Ken is coming from........

Ken was not saying tahts wht he uses but other people may use both brightness and black level as the most important factors. The other specifics you mentioned are also important until we get the numbers and reports on all of those areas all we can do is speculate and assume......
post #1507 of 1868
When all the models are out there and have been reviewed which Panasonic will be directly compared to the F8500? The VT60 or the ZT60?
post #1508 of 1868
Just saw the 8500 at BB....Well.....Im disapointed:( It dosesnt look ANYTHING like what I saw at CES. Salesman let me have the remote so I could make some adjustments....spent almost an hour, and guess what??? The VT50 right next to it looked better. Another thing that bothered me is the new filter...WTF??? Guess I will wait and see what comes out in may.
post #1509 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

When all the models are out there and have been reviewed which Panasonic will be directly compared to the F8500? The VT60 or the ZT60?

No one knows as of yet since the new Panasonic sets havent had a production unit tested.........
post #1510 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by yamvmax View Post

Just saw the 8500 at BB....Well.....Im disapointed:( It dosesnt look ANYTHING like what I saw at CES. Salesman let me have the remote so I could make some adjustments....spent almost an hour, and guess what??? The VT50 right next to it looked better. Another thing that bothered me is the new filter...WTF??? Guess I will wait and see what comes out in may.

You cant always make everyone happy wink.gif hopfully the Panasonic VT\ZT does smile.gif
post #1511 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by mightymouseusf View Post

Can anyone help a brother out with some break in instructions? How long? Where can I get slides...etc.

Last year I took a more aggressive approach with my E series.
I really wanted to blast past that 200 hour mark.
I put the Cell Light to max of 20 and adjusted contrast, brightness and gama according to lighting conditions.
Left it on for 10 days straight and overnight with the ID channel (semi-transparent logo.
I am a channel flipper and hate black bars so it was risk free.
Brightness 50 daytime and contrast 100 daytime.
Also you can use the white screen wiper for overnights rather than slides, etc.

This works for me.biggrin.gif

Movie - Mode
Cell Light 20
Sharpness 0
Brightness 50 daytime / 35 to 30 for evening/dark room
Contrast 100 daytime / 90 to 80 for evening/dark room
Color 52
R/G Tint 50/50
Color Space - Native
Gamma 0 for daytime ( -2 for night
Black Tone - Darkest
Dynamic Contrast - off
Flesh Tone - 0
Color Tone - Warm1
Digital Noise Filter - Off
post #1512 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

So nobody in Lancaster PA can have refrigerators or mattresses or washing machines shipped there either? How do you people live?? biggrin.gif

It's Amish country. wink.gif
post #1513 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by weedeater View Post

It's Amish country. wink.gif

Watch out for the Amish Mafia smile.gif
post #1514 of 1868
Fluctuating brightness , color issues reported by Chad B could turn you off. But do yourselfs a favour and go see the tv play with it in movie mode put the numbers aside. Kevin miller liked and recommended the set and I think he said they looked pretty much identical with refrence material. I know this was the 55" but every set will vary that's nothing new. Chad B said the vt 50 does things better with picture quality and some things the f8500 does better. In the end it's which one you like best. If you buy it and don't like it then return it , move on.
post #1515 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by weedeater View Post

It's Amish country. wink.gif

'Witness' from 1985 a great film with Harrison Ford.
The music is fantastic also.
Seen it many times.smile.gif
post #1516 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by hungro View Post

Fluctuating brightness , color issues reported by Chad B could turn you off. But do yourselfs a favour and go see the tv play with it in movie mode put the numbers aside. Kevin miller liked and recommended the set and I think he said they looked pretty much identical with refrence material. I know this was the 55" but every set will vary that's nothing new. Chad B said the vt 50 does things better with picture quality and some things the f8500 does better. In the end it's which one you like best. If you buy it and don't like it then return it , move on.

I don't think by any means could you consider Chad's review negative it was very complimentary
post #1517 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

When all the models are out there and have been reviewed which Panasonic will be directly compared to the F8500? The VT60 or the ZT60?

As a SWAG? I think the F8500 will be comparable to the VT60.

Folks will be arguing over the benefits of brightness versus black level. Less filling / tastes great.cool.gif
post #1518 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

I don't think by any means could you consider Chad's review negative it was very complimentary

Its not the 1st time I have seen Chad's comments called "negative", its all how you took what he said. Some will use the numbers to boldter thier company of choice, others will get dissapointed becasue the numebrs were not what they were looking for, others will see the positive remarks or the caveats he put in the with comments he made about "fluctuations".......Its a wonderful palce we ahve here, so far 2 different sets calibrated and reported on, both giving pluses and minuses of the set.......

I am reminded of a "famous" movie line, "its true, from a certain point of view" wink.gifbiggrin.gif

I now wave my hand this isnt the review you were looking for, move along nothing to see here:D
post #1519 of 1868
The fact people are actually debating how to interpret Chad's review proves how objective he is.
post #1520 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by pred1973 View Post

Ken...really ? You are using brightness as your measuring stick and claiming I am using black level as mine, and that is not the case at all. I even specified color accuracy, and contrast as other measurable indicators which for some reason you seem to have neglected to include in your presumption of my prerogative. It is the sum of all those aspects, and I fail to see where I focused on any one of them over the rest.

No, I included black levels too. I specifically mentioned them, but cautioned as to how visible the differences might be. Just to give you an example, Buzz calibrated an F8000 and found the measured black levels to be, quite frankly, 'mediocre'. When I asked him how did the blacks actually look to the naked eye in relation to the black bezel in a darkened room, he said "Good question and the answer is favorable for the F8000. I ran a 3D LUT yesterday for night viewing. I hooked up my pattern generator and passed the signal through the LUT. I looked at a checkerboard pattern both with the White luminance at 100% and also at 50%. At 50% I can barely make out the bezel along the black squares. At 100% I can't see it at all."

And this is precisely why I say repeatedly, measurements are great but if that's all you use, your destined for making a less than informed decision. If all you want to do is read a cal chart and buy a display based solely on numbers, knock yourself out. But I have this crazy habit of watching the display, not the light meter.


A few of you guys give me a lot of flack for 'disregarding' the numbers. So be it. The truth is I use the numbers as a data point, but still make a habit of seeing if those numbers actually translate to something tangible, something truly visible, something that would actually sway my buying decision. If you choose not to, that's absolutely your right.

Now honestly, I would say if all I had seen were those cal #s on the F8000, I too would say the blacks must be pretty bad. They were certainly far worse than the measured values on the F8500. Yet the F8000 blacks still looked very black and actually blended with the bezel or nearly did as he indicated above. Even I was surprised.

Now, when you said you expected the Panny 60s would 'easily beat' the 8500, I know you were referring to black levels. There is no other parameter that one could claim that it would 'easily beat' the 8500. Not color. Not brightness.

I obviously agree that all picture parameters should be taken into account, I would assume that's a given with any videophile.
post #1521 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

The fact people are actually debating how to interpret Chad's review proves how objective he is.

Exactly +1
post #1522 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by yamvmax View Post

Just saw the 8500 at BB....Well.....Im disapointed:( It dosesnt look ANYTHING like what I saw at CES. Salesman let me have the remote so I could make some adjustments....spent almost an hour, and guess what??? The VT50 right next to it looked better. Another thing that bothered me is the new filter...WTF??? Guess I will wait and see what comes out in may.

So what specifically disappointed you yamvmax?
post #1523 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by weedeater View Post


Folks will be arguing over the benefits of brightness versus black level. Less filling / tastes great.cool.gif

Only AVS folks, it's brighter so the general consumer will buy it over the Panasonic.
After all this is what happened with LCD/LEDs VS plasma.wink.gif
post #1524 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by mred2007 View Post

I placed an order with Amazon on march 17 only to receive numerous emails and phone chats, claiming they had a glitch in the system. I ordered the pn60f8500.. now this morning I receive an email that its an unfulfillable order claiming that the item contains hazardous material!
Pick another shop to buy from wink.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Mightymouseusf, you don't want it calibrated right away anyway. You want at least 100 hours or more on the panel before you do that. So maybe that was a blessing in disguise. smile.gif
If I was paying for a calibration and was patient I would wait 500-1000 hours. Neither apply to me wink.gif
Edited by Cleveland Plasma - 3/28/13 at 4:02pm
post #1525 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by hungro View Post

Fluctuating brightness , color issues reported by Chad B could turn you off. But do yourselfs a favour and go see the tv play with it in movie mode put the numbers aside. Kevin miller liked and recommended the set and I think he said they looked pretty much identical with refrence material. I know this was the 55" but every set will vary that's nothing new. Chad B said the vt 50 does things better with picture quality and some things the f8500 does better. In the end it's which one you like best. If you buy it and don't like it then return it , move on.

And that's a great point that i forgot. Kevin told me that last night too. Both the calibrated VT50 and the F8500 looked identical. So obviously if you don't adjust an F8500 correctly, the VT50 will look better. I think Kevin knows what he's talking about. wink.gif
post #1526 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

Pick another shop to buy from wink.gif

Yeah lots of good ones really close by wink.gif
post #1527 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

And that's a great point that i forgot. Kevin told me that last night too. Both the calibrated VT50 and the F8500 looked identical. So obviously if you don't adjust an F8500 correctly, the VT50 will look better. I think Kevin knows what he's talking about. wink.gif

As does Chad
post #1528 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

As does Chad

I agree.
post #1529 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I agree.

At least Panny and Samsung are pushing each other to excel, it can only benefit the consumer imo smile.gif
post #1530 of 1868
Does anybody know ( code ) how to get into the service menu where the length of time the F8500 has been turned on ?
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