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Samsung F8500 - new industry standard? [please use links to newer thread] - Page 57  

post #1681 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by agkss View Post

I truly don't care improvement in brightness but that's me, i prefer better blacks...my gt50 has 0.0026fL on THX cinema (No NA model)...0.001fL with brigthness pops (Great) and without black optimizer 0.004fL...no thanks...i want a superior set and i'm very sure that will be a ZT60 in every category except brightness (But maybe will be close).

PS: Brightness pops is a nightmare but you have to experience it and then make an opinion.

We saw no brightness pops with Black Optimizer on, none as in zero. But I think you're a ZT guy, so go for it.
post #1682 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridaman View Post

Got my PN64F8500 delivered from Best buy today. Originally ordered through Amazon and that set was delivered a couple of days ago with a cracked screen. Refused the delivery and got an immediate refund from Amazon. Went to BB and purchased yesterday and got the set delivered today. BB gave me a $250 discount. The total price with tax was less than the prices being charged by online retailers. Thankfully the set today didn't have a cracked screen. Got the unit setup in Movie mode and the picture didn't appear to be very bright. Checked all of the picture settings and they were good. Went through more settings and changed the color tone. Problem was that no matter what tone it was set to there was no difference in the picture. I am thinking great this set is defective. I did install the current firmware update. I decided to call Samsung and they connected remotely and verified the color tone settings weren't working. They tested on their set and it worked normally. Ended up doing a picture reset and everything went back to factory settings. My god what a difference this made. The picture was bright and had come to life. Much brighter than the VT50 I just sold. The color tone settings are now work correctly. This was a very interesting discovery and makes me wonder if some of the displays in the stores had exhibited the same issue based on some of the comments by other posters. The picture on this set is far superior over the VT50 in my opinion. The video processing is a1000% better than the Vt50. The screen is uniform unlike the VT50 which exhibited DSE. The picture is absolutely stunning. The colors are outstanding and the black levels are to die for. Aesthetically the set is gorgeous. The buzzing that plagued last years models is completely gone. Kudos to Samsung for finally stepping up to the plate.

Congrats floridaman, you had a tough road so you deserve the success. wink.gif
post #1683 of 1868
Don't worry i don't enter anymore to the thread...all i have to say...has been said. But in ST60 Thread are people who talk about F8500 too.
Be careful with that...well time will tell.
post #1684 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by agkss View Post

Don't worry i don't enter anymore to the thread...all i have to said...has been said. But in ST60 Thread are people who talk about F8500 too.
Be careful with that...well time will tell.

What. confused.gif
post #1685 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by agkss View Post

Don't worry i don't enter anymore to the thread...all i have to say...has been said. But in ST60 Thread are people who talk about F8500 too.
Be careful with that...well time will tell.

Theres a difference between comparing the two and jsut saying I choose Samsung\Panasonic becasue I think that set will be better, and lets be 100% honest some of the discussion is of Panasonic fans saying that the ST60 is comparable to the F8500......

Not sure what people need to be careful of, as far as I ahve seen there have been no biased opinions and only suggestions in that thread......
post #1686 of 1868
I just heard back from David at Avical. He says he can schedule a calibration with Ken for Monday night. If I leave the set on from now till then, I should hit the 100 hour break in mark. Again, there is no telling when these guys will be touring again. Could be 6 months. At the same time, I don't want to risk damaging the set by leaving it on that long. David says leaving it on overnight once or twice just to make sure it's not a lemon is all I need. What do you guys think?
post #1687 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

Not really. wink.gif I still maintain there's no reason to fear ZT's running out or for creating that urgency. Amazon still has plenty of F8500's in stock and my local Magnolia didn't even have them in the system as of last weekend. This truth remains -- 3k-4k is not the sweet spot for TV sales -- if it was we'd all have 2012 Kuros. That is to say Pioneer wouldn't have gone out of the plasma business due to lack of sales and profits.

I wasn't arguing that ZT's are going to run out, though I will say that Panasonic is a conservative company when it comes to production. The F8500 situation means nothing. Magnolia planned to bring them in the week of 3/31 the whole time. The idea is to bring them in closest to the set date as possible so that you don't have to pay for them before you sell them. They were in their systems long before last week, just not visible to the retail teams. I never said that $3k-$4k was the sweet spot, just that there are a significant amount of people that pay that much for a TV on a weekly basis and that you would be surprised to find out how many.

In the end, you vastly underestimate the market for $3k-$4k televisions. AVS forum is influential, but is not the only group of people willing to pay that much for a TV. In fact, I would argue that the majority of people willing to spend that much have never even heard of this site.
post #1688 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Theres a difference between comparing the two and jsut saying I choose Samsung\Panasonic becasue I think that set will be better, and lets be 100% honest some of the discussion is of Panasonic fans saying that the ST60 is comparable to the F8500......

Not sure what people need to be careful of, as far as I ahve seen there have been no biased opinions and only suggestions in that thread......

When i compare a F8500 VS ST60...To me the only comparisson will be F8500 VS ZT60...if they are panasonic fans, that's their problem.

If i could buy a Sharp Elite...

PS: Maybe the ZT60 it's so limited that doesn't arrive...frown.gif
Edited by agkss - 3/29/13 at 5:57pm
post #1689 of 1868
There have been people taht ahve left the TV on for a straight week to push through the 100 hours.....While the decision in the end is up to you, I wouldnt think there would be an issue having the TV on all the time...Since its not my TV however, I am not going to say there is for sure no problem doing it, this is CE where anything can happen randomly.......
post #1690 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by agkss View Post

When i compare a F8500 VS ST60...To me the only comparisson will be F8500 VS ZT60...if they are panasonic fans, that's their problem.

If i could buy a Sharp Elite...

Yes I know\remember you have limited selection in your country......I really hope that the Panasonic is all that it promises to be and that you are satisfied with it...I know I have recommended people to wait often if they can so that they have the best overall picture of the major sets abilities.....
post #1691 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Yes they are! And there's lots to love about the 8500 from what I saw. 2013 looks to be a great year for displays.

I was just thinking that after reading your review. The VT50 was no slouch, and if the F8500 surpasses that, and the ST60 is looking to be close to the VT50, hopefully the VT60 and ZT60 can keep the trend going for this year. Really would be hard to make a bad choice in the plasma market. I think the thing that I find most encouraging is the idea that Samsung did a new panel with new attributes (versus an incremental improvement over the previous year) and seemed to have nailed it. I usually have a certain level of skepticism of companies getting it right the first time out with new products. Hopefully Panasonic can do the same with the ZT. Its always great for the consumer to have multiple choices, and this really does seem to be a special year for plasma displays.
post #1692 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

"Ridiculous" is in the eyes of the beholder Vinnie. It all depends on what you're looking for. We can say the same thing about cars, clothing and on and on. We all place different value on different things. smile.gif
Well, it's not what I would call worth it, and the beholders whom I trust the most (calibrators, pro reviewers) are pretty unanimous in their overall PQ assessments. Why pay more to get less? If the prices were more equitable, I wouldn't be so adamant with my ridiculous comments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Actually Vinnie, I was won over by a variety of PQ attributes. The display produced great color, better sharpness than I've seen on any plasma, better brightness than I've seen on any plasma, great blacks even though not groundbreaking and an overall 'look' that I just found really really nice and very pleasing. In some ways it's truly a blend of a plasma & an LED.

As always, there are many aspects to great PQ and when they all come together, you get a great display. IMO, the F8500 is such a display. Of course there are others.
That's fine (and does coincide with your in-person impression), but you have been focusing significant energy on the max brightness of the set, so that is why that particular parameter stood out in my mind. Also, this was in response to your haste purchasing decision of the 8500 before ever being able to "audition" the coming Panasonics. Since you didn't explain in that initial post the rationalization for choosing an 8500 now (time constraints), I made an apparently mistaken assumption that between the two giants, the brighter aspect of the 8500 would automatically win out for you. Your upcoming move casts some new light on the early purchasing decision, and it looks like I am victim to a self-inflicted foot-in-mouth embarrassment.
Edited by vinnie97 - 3/29/13 at 6:15pm
post #1693 of 1868
Played a little Bioshock Infinite yesterday and noticed quite a bit of input lag. To be fair, Digital Foundry did report more lag on the Xbox version, which is the one I played. Using the oddly placed within the menu game mode (it was under system/general instead of in the picture menu), alleviated the lag quite a bit. I noticed in the game mode description it warned that using it might degrade graphical quality. I didn't notice much if any. Does anyone know what they mean "by slight degradation of graphical quality" and why that is?
post #1694 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Yes they are! And there's lots to love about the 8500 from what I saw. 2013 looks to be a great year for displays.
Yep, maybe an OLED will be released this year too, we will see wink.gif
post #1695 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by mightymouseusf View Post

Played a little Bioshock Infinite yesterday and noticed quite a bit of input lag. To be fair, Digital Foundry did report more lag on the Xbox version, which is the one I played. Using the oddly placed within the menu game mode (it was under system/general instead of in the picture menu), alleviated the lag quite a bit. I noticed in the game mode description it warned that using it might degrade graphical quality. I didn't notice much if any. Does anyone know what they mean "by slight degradation of graphical quality" and why that is?

Just use one of the other modes and switch to game mode to see if there's some sort of down rezing or display discrepency between the two.
post #1696 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimShaw View Post

Ken

I might ask Robert today about the idea of running another test for the shootout, 'normal room light viewing'


I think that is a great idea. Why not test the sets in the same atmosphere that possibly 99% of the owners will view the sets.

What's going to constitute "normal," though?

I must be the 1%*, because I do try to make some effort to improve my viewing environment, at least for critical viewing. That means closing the blinds, moving the TV to a spot away from direct light, or just preferring to watch movies at night.

The shooutout is a technical exercise, no? It's not a consumer guide, else we would have best LCD, best plasma, best under 2k, best under 5k, etc etc.

* not financially, for sure smile.gif
post #1697 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by mightymouseusf View Post

I just heard back from David at Avical. He says he can schedule a calibration with Ken for Monday night. If I leave the set on from now till then, I should hit the 100 hour break in mark. Again, there is no telling when these guys will be touring again. Could be 6 months. At the same time, I don't want to risk damaging the set by leaving it on that long. David says leaving it on overnight once or twice just to make sure it's not a lemon is all I need. What do you guys think?

I know people that have done that. But what programming are you leaving on the display? Avoid letter boxing material or anything with logos.
post #1698 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by pred1973 View Post

I was just thinking that after reading your review. The VT50 was no slouch, and if the F8500 surpasses that, and the ST60 is looking to be close to the VT50, hopefully the VT60 and ZT60 can keep the trend going for this year. Really would be hard to make a bad choice in the plasma market. I think the thing that I find most encouraging is the idea that Samsung did a new panel with new attributes (versus an incremental improvement over the previous year) and seemed to have nailed it. I usually have a certain level of skepticism of companies getting it right the first time out with new products. Hopefully Panasonic can do the same with the ZT. Its always great for the consumer to have multiple choices, and this really does seem to be a special year for plasma displays.

I'd be surprised if Panasonic doesn't come up with a great panel in the ZT60.
post #1699 of 1868
Hey guys, just saw the F8500 in my local Magnolia... it was pretty amazing. I was going to go check out the F8000, but they don't have it in anything over a 55" and it's only on the regular sales floor. I was pretty impressed.... the picture and colors were great, blacks were deep, tv was plenty bright, and much brighter than the vt50 it was by. I was also really impressed by the remote and their whole smart apps/guide system. It worked really fluidly and the remote was surprisingly responsive. It also felt really nice in your hand, kind of like an expensive smartphone. I did notice that off angle viewing, more specifically vertical off-axis viewing was a little disappointing... I am not familiar with plasmas at all, but I am considering this tv for above our fireplace (the only place we can put a tv in our back room). It could have just been me, I just wanted to mention it. As I said, very impressed, even the stand looked really nice how it bulges out from the tv in the middle but then flows back to the frame of the tv at the edges. I'm going to head back next week to watch a bluray on it, and then again when they get the 65" F8000 (they told me they would put it right above it). I'm deathly afraid of plasmas due to burn-in (I know its harder nowadays to get burn in, but I play a lot of ps3 and a wife that doesn't understand burn-in) but my mind might have been changed from what I saw tonight. I'm no expert, but feel free to ask me any questions you want to.

Oh and I know someone in the past has asked about the internet brower. It was quick and very easy to use. Having the touch control on the remote makes using the browser very easy.
post #1700 of 1868
I just set up the F8500 at my employer and it really does stand out amongst the other high end TVs in the same room. While it's brightness isn't LED eye searing, it does have the usable brightness found in most LEDs and most certainly the brightest plasma I've seen. The blacks are superb and definitely an upgrade over the 2012 Samsung plasmas.

Disclaimer: I'm not sure if it's just the particular display unit, but the stand doesn't sit flush on a flat surface causing the TV to rock.
post #1701 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Well, it's not what I would call worth it, and the beholders whom I trust the most (calibrators, pro reviewers) are pretty unanimous in their overall PQ assessments. Why pay more to get less? If the prices were more equitable, I wouldn't be so adamant with my ridiculous comments.

I think there is a bias among reviewers & calibrators toward plasma. Many would argue for good reason as the vast majority of LED/LCDs aren't as good as the best plasmas. But the full array panels I speak of are a different breed. Some pro reviewers called the Sharp Elite the best TV ever. Opinions differ. Tom Norton gave the Sony a very glowing review. Pay more to get less? Depends on the qualities you value most. For people that want the best black levels available and aren't concerned about viewing angle or some minor banding, then maybe that's worth it to them. But to generalize 'pay more for less', nope, I don't agree with that. Again, the best reviewer of any panel is the person buying it. No matter what a reviewer says, if it doesn't look good to you, what good is it? Similarily, if a reviewer turns thumbs down on a display, but it looks great to you, are you not going to buy it? Who's living with it? At some point you need to have confidence in what your eyes tell you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

That's fine (and does coincide with your in-person impression), but you have been focusing significant energy on the max brightness of the set, so that is why that particular parameter stood out in my mind. Also, this was in response to your haste purchasing decision of the 8500 before ever being able to "audition" the coming Panasonics. Since you didn't explain in that initial post the rationalization for choosing an 8500 now (time constraints), I made an apparently mistaken assumption that between the two giants, the brighter aspect of the 8500 would automatically win out for you. Your upcoming move casts some new light on the early purchasing decision, and it looks like I am victim to a self-inflicted foot-in-mouth embarrassment.

I thought I focused on all attributes of the set. But hey, since the biggest change in this panel vs. all that came before is the unprcedented brightness, I don't think it's unreasonable to pay attention to that. However it would be worthless if the other PQ attributes were sub-par. None of them are and all of them are either state-of-the-art or nearly so. Not a bad combination I think. A panel that can perform great in a dark room or a bright room. I just can't see what can be wrong with that.

No foot in mouth embarrassment necessary. I thought I had mentioned that before, but perhaps I didn't.

But Vinnie for me, I can 'live with' an MLL of .0016. Somehow I'll 'struggle' with that and its other attributes...if it's the panel I buy. biggrin.gif
post #1702 of 1868
I was thinking of just leaving HBO on. They don't usually leave their logo on too long.
post #1703 of 1868
Disclaimer: I'm not sure if it's just the particular display unit, but the stand doesn't sit flush on a flat surface causing the TV to rock.[/quote]

Mine does too.
post #1704 of 1868
I think the one in Robert's store rocked a bit too.
post #1705 of 1868
Lol I didn't try moving the set I saw... I'm a firm believer in the you break it you bought it kinda thing. Plus I'm wall mounting it anyway
post #1706 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by mightymouseusf View Post

I was thinking of just leaving HBO on. They don't usually leave their logo on too long.

zoom2... most or all logo is then off screen! (for overnight running, not while watching wink.gif
post #1707 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljmart View Post

zoom2... most or all logo is then off screen!

Great idea for the break-in!
post #1708 of 1868
That is a great idea. Thanks!
post #1709 of 1868
Indeed, Ken. The eyes have to take precedence at some point (that's why I ultimately had to dump the Samsung LCD I bought sight unseen via Amazon in 2007...the backlight was atrocious and the Mura distracting). Yes, the full-array set can achieve a deeper black level, but there is a cost in the form of distortions from blooming (minor though they may be, along with the aforementioned banding) as mentioned in one of the first reviews I read about the XBR590. Maybe I wouldn't detect them, but I am not comfortable with that Band-Aid to achieve deeper blacks coupled with reduced viewing angles at such a premium. To me, the sacrifice is ridiculous especially if it involves paying much more than the high-end from the competing tech, which might be a touch brighter (and use 2 to 3 times the power).

EDIT: Well, I see an apparently reputable seller actually has the Sony available for a substantial reduction off MRSP. This would at least make the choices more equitable price-wise and would be more like a coin toss when making the decision. wink.gif
Edited by vinnie97 - 3/29/13 at 9:37pm
post #1710 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvrw2 View Post

Ken, the 0016 was measured on a ANSI test or full black screen?
Full field. I was not at the store to do in depth measurements.... nor was I there to validate Kevin's work. All I know is the 64F8500 measured 0.0017fL (it dipped to 0.0016fL for a few secs) which is also what Kevin measured, per Robert. I was very impressed with the brightness of this display. It will easily trump any 2013 Panasonic in that department.... and yes that includes the ZT60.
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