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post #1771 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvis Is Alive View Post

I went to my local Magnolia store. No F8500 to be found. Employees clueless to arrival.

I was a bit surprised to see that they had Sharp Elites on display and still had stock of both sizes. Of course, with their MSRP pricing, I shouldn't be surprised I guess. Of all the non-calibrated displays I saw, I preferred the Elite.

I find much of this plasma brand wars infighting amusing. It's almost reminiscent of the legendary color wars around here.

Why can't someone just be satisfied with their individual display of choice? I see way too much need for affirmation in some of these threads.

It all comes down to your individual perceived value. This set and the top pannys and the few remaining full array LEDs are all great sets.

On a lighter note, regarding bias, Worst Buy continues to suck. smile.gif
It is surprising the Magnolia Center didn't have the set on display. Knowing BB it is probably sitting in the back somewhere. The local Magnolia stores in my area do have them on display. I purchased my 64F8500 set at BB on Thursday and it was delivered on Friday.

I agree with your analogy about it being your personal preference when purchasing a new TV. Many people get wrapped up in the different measured readings by calibrators. While it is great information it still boils down to what looks good to you. I had the VT50 which I sold before getting the 8500. In my opinion the 8500 is a much better set than the VT50.
post #1772 of 1868
I guarantee you they are sitting in the warehouse. They have been sitting in my local BBs warehouse for over a week. BB doesn't put them out until a scheduled planogram. and most of the time they don't keep up with the planograms anyway.
post #1773 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by wattheF View Post

Most people on here probably don't care about it but did you test hockey? Unless you scrutinize a hockey game you may not know for sure.

The E8000 mostly only had fluctuating brightness issues with hockey (it was not photographers strobes/flashes either). Almost all other content was fine.

If you can report that the ABL is totally stable even during hockey that will be a great sign because it is a true test for a plasma.
Decided to go to Best Buy this evening and check out Hockey on the F8500 and unfortunately I can confirm that there were noticeable brightness fluctuations (not camera flashes!) seen during game play. I will say it did seem a bit less frequent than on the E series, but without viewing side by side it’s really hard to tell. None the less, much to my disappointment, it was there. Tried adjusting cell light and contrast a bit to see if I could find a sweet spot for the ABL with hockey, but no dice. I also noticed a bit of DSE on this particular panel in the form of vertical banding, one very light bluish band and one light gray. Nothing too terrible, but visible with the white ice during camera pans. I’d suggest if you’re really into hockey, try to check-out the panel first to see if this set will work for you.
post #1774 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by jav1 View Post

Decided to go to Best Buy this evening and check out Hockey on the F8500 and unfortunately I can confirm that there were noticeable brightness fluctuations (not camera flashes!) seen during game play. I will say it did seem a bit less frequent than on the E series, but without viewing side by side it’s really hard to tell. None the less, much to my disappointment, it was there. Tried adjusting cell light and contrast a bit to see if I could find a sweet spot for the ABL with hockey, but no dice. I also noticed a bit of DSE on this particular panel in the form of vertical banding, one very light bluish band and one light gray. Nothing too terrible, but visible with the white ice during camera pans. I’d suggest if you’re really into hockey, try to check-out the panel first to see if this set will work for you.

Thank you. Unfortunately this sounds like confirmation of what I was seeing the other day, which was exactly the same as you describe. frown.gif

I was really hoping that what I was seeing wasn't a real issue.

Samsung needs to get their act together and fix this with a firmware upgrade (not holding my breath), or I can't buy this TV...What a shame.
post #1775 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Well, interestingly, Robert had an F8000 and an F8500 right next to each other on a wall. Initially there were some scenes that were a bit more saturated on the F8500 and others that were more saturated on the F8000. Robert agreed when I pointed that out to him. I couldn't figure out why there was this variation from scene to scene (both were calibrated). However D-Nice found that the HDMI black setting on the F8000 wasn't adjusted properly. Once he did that, saturation and most other PQ aspects looked identical.

I'd defy you to point out which was more or less saturated. They were dead even. I'd bet if the bezels were masked off, and nobody knew which was which (to remove obvious biases), nobody could pick which panel had the better saturation...even hard core plasma fans. wink.gif

OK fine, I am sick of ABL too but for different reasons then you. I don't ever notice a dim picture, but fluctuations are unbearable.

So lets hypothetically say I wanted to switch to LED. Does a set exist that will match or surpass the performance of say, a Panasonic ST, in 60'' that can be had for around $2000???

I am asking that question seriously BTW.
post #1776 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by wattheF View Post

OK fine, I am sick of ABL too but for different reasons then you. I don't ever notice a dim picture, but fluctuations are unbearable.

So lets hypothetically say I wanted to switch to LED. Does a set exist that will match or surpass the performance of say, a Panasonic ST, in 60'' that can be had for around $2000???

I am asking that question seriously BTW.

Off the top of my head Im goign to say no (becasue of the price range).....I believe Ken has stated the LCD sets he has seen taht could match a plasma would bt the Sony 950 and the Elite, of course there are the drawbacks of LCD (blooming, screen uniformity, ect).......Plasma has been the "bang for the buck" set to have if you dont need the brightness of an LCD in your room.....
post #1777 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by wattheF View Post

Thank you. Unfortunately this sounds like confirmation of what I was seeing the other day, which was exactly the same as you describe. frown.gif

I was really hoping that what I was seeing wasn't a real issue.

Samsung needs to get their act together and fix this with a firmware upgrade (not holding my breath), or I can't buy this TV...What a shame.

Well weve had a feew reports of in store fluctuations and calibrators that have said it didnt show up and one that said it could be there, but some may not see it......Some of it may ahv eot do with the settings as well, but if you are a big hocky fan Plasma may just not be the right tech for you (due to ABL).......
post #1778 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Well weve had a feew reports of in store fluctuations and calibrators that have said it didnt show up and one that said it could be there, but some may not see it......Some of it may ahv eot do with the settings as well, but if you are a big hocky fan Plasma may just not be the right tech for you (due to ABL).......

Look at the last two posts and you will see how that doesn't work for me! $2500 would be the absolute most I could swing and I can't take a step back in PQ. I guess I would have to sacrifice size??

I might be jumping to conclusions a little bit with this Fbr issue and the 8500 (or maybe they will fix it even if it is an issue) anyways.

If not thank goodness Panasonic still makes plasma's. As long as the ST60 doesn't have any ABL fluctuation issues, which it shouldn't based on last years models performance in this area. (FINGERS CROSSED!!)wink.gif
Edited by wattheF - 3/30/13 at 8:31pm
post #1779 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by wattheF View Post

Look at the last two posts and you will see how that doesn't work for me!

Thank goodness Panasonic still makes plasma's. As long as the ST60 doesn't have any ABL fluctuation issues, which it shouldn't based on last years models performance in this area. (FINGERS CROSSED!!)

The last two posts where from in store viewings....I was referring to Calibrators reports AND those who have the set in home.........I understand it doesnt work for you wink.gif What I was saying is that there could be a number of reasons why you are seeing it in an uncontrolled environment....hopefully the Panasonics will meet you needs smile.gif
post #1780 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

The last two posts where from in store viewings....I was referring to Calibrators reports AND those who have the set in home.........I understand it doesnt work for you wink.gif What I was saying is that there could be a number of reasons why you are seeing it in an uncontrolled environment....hopefully the Panasonics will meet you needs smile.gif

Thanks, I will give it some time and see how it shakes out
post #1781 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by wattheF View Post

Thanks, I will give it some time and see how it shakes out

Indeed, if you are in no rush to get something new there is no reason not to wait smile.gif
post #1782 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I think your advice is poor. Don't use the orbiter? Watch whatever you want even during the first 100 hours?

I did not read that advice, but that is basically what I did with my first plasma, the vt50. First thing, I put in d-nice settings. Custom mode, contrast around 90.Turned on 1:1 pixel, which turned off the pixel orbiter, because I wanted the sharpest picture. Then watched whole Sunday of football -- 3 hrs of logo and scoreboard on CBS, 3 hrs on Fox, 3 hours on NBC, then couple more hours on ESPN and NFL network (which has more screen junk than actual screen content). I had about 10 hours on the set prior to that. Checked IR with slides, no problem. Kept watching TV. Movies with black bars. Periodically checked IR. No problem.

I don't exactly recommend this, but it's how I roll now. I figure this way: if you want to check a patient's heart, stick him on a treadmill and put a monitor on him. If the TV is IR prone, I want to find out earlier rather than later.

I went through the whole IR anxiety with my CRT RPTV. My brother got one and did he care? Nope, just watched TV. Did anything happen to his TV? Nope.

Plasmas are like babies. First one you get, you're a nervous wreck. By the time the third one rolls around, you're like "I need to get some sleep, can I give the baby half an Ambien? Come on, it's only half! They say it's not addictive."
post #1783 of 1868
I have a 9 yr old Panasonic 50" Plasma and love it even now. When I bought that TV the "burn in" issue was so much talked about to the extent that it would easily scare away a Plasma buyer. In fact I was super extra careful for a few months and slowly started realizing that it was greatly overblown. And after a couple of years I had almost forgotten about the issue. Though I still ensure that an image doesn't stay still for hours, I have many times had an image paused for a few minutes but never run into burn in issues nor noticed even IR. In fact my 10 year old has played up to an hour long gaming sessions (wii, xbox) multiple times, still no issues seen so far. Now I am starting to get back on to the avsforum and re-start learning about the current state of flat panel TVs. To my surprise I see more chatter and concerns about burn in and IR, while I was in fact expecting less as plasmas have come a long way. Have the plasma displays now become more prone to IR and burn in because the manufactures are trying to make those brighter than before or some other technical reason?
post #1784 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Indeed, if you are in no rush to get something new there is no reason not to wait smile.gif

Watching my old Sony LCD projection TV (after my son broke my GT50! eek.gif) is starting to wear thin but I can suffer through for a little while longer. wink.gif
post #1785 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by wattheF View Post

Watching my old Sony LCD projection TV (after my son broke my GT50! eek.gif) is starting to wear thin but I can suffer through for a little while longer. wink.gif

Just curious - what are you going to do to stop your son from destroying your next set?!
post #1786 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Just curious - what are you going to do to stop your son from destroying your next set?!

Ha! Good question. Maybe take all of his toys away so he can't throw them at the TV! wink.gif

Really IDK maybe pay a bunch of money for a screen protection warranty or an ugly screen protector???

Have any other suggestions?
post #1787 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by wattheF View Post

Ha! Good question. Maybe take all of his toys away so he can't throw them at the TV! wink.gif

Really IDK maybe pay a bunch of money for a screen protection warranty or an ugly screen protector???

Have any other suggestions?

Man, that is a tough one. How old is he?
post #1788 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by scientifix View Post

I have a 9 yr old Panasonic 50" Plasma and love it even now. When I bought that TV the "burn in" issue was so much talked about to the extent that it would easily scare away a Plasma buyer. In fact I was super extra careful for a few months and slowly started realizing that it was greatly overblown. And after a couple of years I had almost forgotten about the issue. Though I still ensure that an image doesn't stay still for hours, I have many times had an image paused for a few minutes but never run into burn in issues nor noticed even IR. In fact my 10 year old has played up to an hour long gaming sessions (wii, xbox) multiple times, still no issues seen so far. Now I am starting to get back on to the avsforum and re-start learning about the current state of flat panel TVs. To my surprise I see more chatter and concerns about burn in and IR, while I was in fact expecting less as plasmas have come a long way. Have the plasma displays now become more prone to IR and burn in because the manufactures are trying to make those brighter than before or some other technical reason?

There are MANY new Plasma owners and forums like these arealmsot NEVER a good measure of what is actually happening in the general market....Plasmas are still prone to IR, sure its just the nature of the tech, has IR become much less of a factor, you bet smile.gif ........
Quote:
Originally Posted by wattheF View Post

Watching my old Sony LCD projection TV (after my son broke my GT50! eek.gif) is starting to wear thin but I can suffer through for a little while longer. wink.gif

Well May isnt that far away and June isnt that far behind that wink.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by wattheF View Post

Ha! Good question. Maybe take all of his toys away so he can't throw them at the TV! wink.gif

Really IDK maybe pay a bunch of money for a screen protection warranty or an ugly screen protector???

Have any other suggestions?
I find having a handy bottle of water with a small amount of vinegar near by helps. anytime they get close to the TV spray them, eventually they will be conditioned not to go near the TV wink.gifbiggrin.gif

the SPW is probably your best bet however either that or time to toys that only inflate smile.gif
post #1789 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Man, that is a tough one. How old is he?

He is 3 1/2 and I have a 9 mo. old boy behind him!
post #1790 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by wattheF View Post

He is 3 1/2 and I have a 9 mo. old boy behind him!

The screen protector might be your safest bet.
post #1791 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

The screen protector might be your safest bet.

Yeah, thats what I'm thinkin! I was gonna wall mount it to get it back farther but I don't know if thats enough.
post #1792 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

There are MANY new Plasma owners and forums like these arealmsot NEVER a good measure of what is actually happening in the general market....Plasmas are still prone to IR, sure its just the nature of the tech, has IR become much less of a factor, you bet smile.gif ........
Well May isnt that far away and June isnt that far behind that wink.gif
I find having a handy bottle of water with a small amount of vinegar near by helps. anytime they get close to the TV spray them, eventually they will be conditioned not to go near the TV wink.gifbiggrin.gif

the SPW is probably your best bet however either that or time to toys that only inflate smile.gif

Ha! he knows now to stay away!

It kills me to spend another $200 plus on that! But gotta do something cuz its better than another $1500!
post #1793 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by wattheF View Post

Yeah, thats what I'm thinkin! I was gonna wall mount it to get it back farther but I don't know if thats enough.

Opps you were serious....Screen Protecctor may work well, as even if you wall mount it, flying objects could still hit it.....While the Screen Protector woul look ugly, its more of temporary investment, until the kids get older wink.gif .....
post #1794 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by wattheF View Post

Ha! he knows now to stay away!

It kills me to spend another $200 plus on that! But gotta do something cuz its better than another $1500!

Jsut like insurance you get it in case ish happens....With 2 young children you have what I like to call a HIGH RISK situation for this occuring again...I would gladly spend 200+ to ensure I didnt have to spend 1500+ in the near future.....even if it doesnt happen again, thats just a bonus.......I dont know If I could deal with a screen protector on my TV especially if it affected the PQ......
post #1795 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Opps you were serious....Screen Protecctor may work well, as even if you wall mount it, flying objects could still hit it.....While the Screen Protector woul look ugly, its more of temporary investment, until the kids get older wink.gif .....

I know, I can just put the TV in my own (locked) man cave. The wife and kids can suffer with the old TV in the livingroom...oh wait, I don't have one of those to put it in. rolleyes.gif
post #1796 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Jsut like insurance you get it in case ish happens....With 2 young children you have what I like to call a HIGH RISK situation for this occuring again...I would gladly spend 200+ to ensure I didnt have to spend 1500+ in the near future.....even if it doesnt happen again, thats just a bonus.......I dont know If I could deal with a screen protector on my TV especially if it affected the PQ......

Exactly.

Warranty it is.

Thanks for your help.
post #1797 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

I freely admit that I have absolutely no image retention issues on my VT50. I have now spent more of my life searching for this non-problem on my TV than could possibly be justified rationally. I simply cannot make it a problem. There is absolutely no way my unit is uncommon.
The idea that it wouldn't continue is patently absurd. Akin to the idea that you all should stay inside because of that bus thing I mentioned above.
No, it's not a guarantee for others. But it means that others are quite likely to share my experience. And if we had real data instead of stray complaints, this would be apparent. AVS reports are "squeaky wheel" data, which is inherently an inaccurate sample.

This constant arguing with Ken is getting tiresome. While I don't own either LCD or Plasma, I find your arguments proclaiming plasma's don't have IR/BI rather ludicrous. When was the last time you visited a Best Buy or Frys? If you did, you would find that almost every single plasma in the store has some sort of logo or menu image burned into the display. If that is not considered "real data" then I don't know what is. It's a larger sample size compared to the single VT50 you own. I also agree with Ken that it's unlikely that so many people in this forum are lying about their IR/BI experience.

Just because a problem is not widely reported as a cause for returns, does not mean it does not exist. Take the uniformity problems on LCD's as an example. Virtually every single LCD has some sort of clouding, flash-lighting, banding, etc but yet very few are returned. Most people just accept it as part of the tech or are too ignorant to know any better. Same goes for IR/BR on plasma. No tech is perfect. You pick what works best for your viewing habits or offers the peace of mind you desire.

Also, I'm curious exactly how you know your set is immune? Depending on the type of IR, it may only be visible on certain backgrounds. Unless you've run through a full series of color slides (including gray scale), you can't be 100% certain.
post #1798 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by wattheF View Post

Thank you. Unfortunately this sounds like confirmation of what I was seeing the other day, which was exactly the same as you describe. frown.gif

I was really hoping that what I was seeing wasn't a real issue.

Samsung needs to get their act together and fix this with a firmware upgrade (not holding my breath), or I can't buy this TV...What a shame.

Maybe my eyes need to be taught what to look for, but watching the Rangers lose to the Canadiens last night and I don't see what the fuss is about. The whites of the Rangers jerseys didn't clash with the ice. The ice was the usual cloudy-sheen white ice as it should be and the reflections from the rink lights that went down both sides of center ice were noticeable only on views from behind the net, not the classic side-rink view. Whatever the prob you guys saw watching hockey I can't tell, but I do know this set blows my old Pioneer PDP-5071 out of the statosphere that's for sure. It was pretty enjoyable to watch imo.
post #1799 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by altagracia57 View Post

Maybe my eyes need to be taught what to look for, but watching the Rangers lose to the Canadiens last night and I don't see what the fuss is about. The whites of the Rangers jerseys didn't clash with the ice. The ice was the usual cloudy-sheen white ice as it should be and the reflections from the rink lights that went down both sides of center ice were noticeable only on views from behind the net, not the classic side-rink view. Whatever the prob you guys saw watching hockey I can't tell, but I do know this set blows my old Pioneer PDP-5071 out of the statosphere that's for sure. It was pretty enjoyable to watch imo.

I feel same way and my PN51F8500 surpassed my Pioneer PDP-5010FD easily
post #1800 of 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Whites still dim with Full Field White. However with regular content, the F8500 is just as bright as an LED LCD set to the same light output.

Thanks. Looking forward to seeing what fl most of these sets peak at befor clipping after you have calibrated a few.
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