Samsung F8500 - new industry standard? [please use links to newer thread] - Page 30  

Well, I just stopped into Abt to check out the 64in F8500 and I was disappointed (not in the TV, though). They apparently just put it up and had a very crappy feed of the NCAA that looked like it had been split 100 times. It was pretty unwatchable. They also couldn't find the remote and didn't have a blu-ray player hooked up. The set itself looked nice and I actually liked the stand when I saw it in person. I did notice a small window in the lower left hand corner of the screen that looked like it could have been fro IR signals. The sales person though the same thing. But, since there wasn't a remote to be found, I couldn't test it.




You can see the window in this picture form rrolins.

Halimali - I'm also on a precipice. I'm a solid LED guy because I like the pop. However, I love the colors and realism of the plasma. The F8500 is said to have more light (pop) than most LED's and has much deeper blacks than the ES8000 and E8000. To me, that would be the best of both worlds! If all the hype by Samsung and its vendors prove to be true - I'll have a new plasma toy. However, before I fork over the cash for this beast I will need to see some unbiased and professional reviews. I'm certainly not gong to be "Mikey"...

I'm not sure it will happen. The F8000 LED I ordered will be here on Monday but the ANSI black is only going to be around .014 FtL and you know I'll have an issue with that even though it's the TV I literally have to have for LUT display. We won't know much about the VT, ZT, and F8500 until the meters go to work but there will still be the undefeatable ABL processing.

Too bad you don't live in SW FL where I could fix you up. The 125 point LUTs don't work all that well for Elite tracking but a full blown 4913 point LightSpace profile with a 65x65x65 LUT would clean up your display and make it the best it can be.

This definitely seems like a promising model. The only thing I don't understand about that article is Him saying the Kuro has mediocre contrast. Unless I misunderstood that makes no sense. I am looking forward to seeing reviews on this model and I love that there is a 51 inch model. I watch my 101fd from about 7.5 feet and it's perfectly fine. So If something were to happen to it , I would look at this or either a 55vt60.

I'm not sure if you guys are aware but the user manual is now available on the Samsung site. http://www.samsung.com/us/support/owners/product/PN60F8500AFXZA#

There is a firmware update already posted.

Larry

Looking at last year's VE data, that would be 2x the ANSI black level of a VT50 -- not good. On the plus side, it would be 1/4 the ANSI black level of last year's 60ES8000 -- which is really good.

In short, it will not be anywhere near as contrasty as the best plasmas if this number proves out (and generally buzzard's numbers are the kind of numbers I just take and accept). You'd be looking at 5-7K:1 ANSI max. Of course, to the extent the "local"-ness of the dimming works, the real-world performance is likely to be a bit better than these numbers indicate.

Where are you getting 2x ANSI black level of a VT50? The VT50's is 0.002 ft-L. Did you get cd/m^2 confused with ft-L?
Edited by superbooga - 3/21/13 at 5:14pm

Um, no. Cnet ran a static image for at least 8 hours straight.

I didn't get the contrast comment either. I don't think the kuros contrast ratio has been beaten yet. over 37000 last time i checked (?). I think he ment other TV's being brighter which affects CR too, but that doesn't make the kuros CR mediocre.


But yeah, i can't wait to check out both the ZT60 and F8500 side by side at my audio dealer. I think this is the first time both companies actually mentioned, with confidence, their TV's being better than the kuro. It's funny any company even cares about that title. It's not like the kuro has a fighting chance. lol. People have no choice but to buy anything else.

What size f8500 did you measure, or is ANSI black not affected by screen size?

I googled LUT but still don't understand what it does wrt to calibration. I use a PC and I know madvr can apply 3dluts. If I want to play with LUT, can I just find one somewhere for my display model and use it? Will there be any improvement or will only a custom calibration do? Thanks.

I have a question. Since the black level is the result of "a filter comprised of particles that keep ambient light that enters the panel from being reflected back out," won't shadow detail be affected?

Is the Kuro 9.5G that high, 37000:1 ANSI?

My post was not meant to imply that Dave's 1-2 hours of the History Channel equated to the same as CNET's 8 hours, but rather that both developed IR. Dave's experience is scarier in that 1-2 hours on one channel is certainly not excessive. If one has to change their viewing habits because of display being so prone to IR, then it makes no difference how good the PQ is, it simply isn't worth it.

I'm not saying this is the case, but surely you have to agree that IR is not something one should have to endure from merely watching 1-2 hours of a given channel...even if it's on a frequent basis.

I went out TV shopping today, and my local Video Only had just gotten in their Samsung F8500 in 64 inch this morning and had it set up right next to their last display model 65 VT50. I was very eager to check it out after the recent buzz I read, even though I had settled on a Panasonic plasma already.

I set both TV's to the best mode I could think of. Samsung to "Movie" and VT50 to "THX Cinema". I must say...the F8500 was noticeably brighter. In fact, at one point I check the Samsung remote just to make sure it hadn't reset itself to some sort of store mode because I couldn't believe it was that much brighter than the VT50. I changed the VT50 to THX Bright room, and still the Samsung was brighter. (both had contrast at 90, brightness in the 40-50's)

I can't judge total color accuracy by eye (I'm not that good), but the colors on both sets seemed to be ok, with the VT50 maybe looking a little more redish. The blacks are impossible to test against each other in a sunlight/bright light showroom, but when both screens went to mostly black screens, they both appeared very black.

I'm mostly a Panasonic guy, (my in laws have gone through 2 repairs and a replacement set on their previous Samsung from 2 years ago!) but I must say I was very impressed! And the design looks much worse in pictures than when you see it for yourself. I would honestly consider one of these if it was in my price range, and if the ZT60 is just as good or better, then we all have some amazing TV's this year.

So let's just say for sake of discussion, that in the end the picture quality of the F8500 and ZT60 are very close. One having tad better black levels, and the other having tad better color accuracy (or go ahead and pick your own two picture qulaity areas that one of either the F8500 or ZT60 is beter at). So what are the tie breakers? What matters? Is it price? Screen size? Bells and Whistles? Reliability? Power Consumption? Add your own catagory.....Just interested in what people will be using as criteria for making for real world purchase decision. For me screen size is very important...but that's just me. Your thoughts?

I'd say price first and foremost, followed by screen size. Also brand loyalty...or to put it another way, for such a large expensive set, do you believe X or Y manufacturer's sets are more likely to fail?

I wish the F8500 came in a 55 inch. Not sure why they would pick 51, 60 and 64 as the sizes.

Given the asking price, I am not sure I'd try to get by without an extended warranty for either Samsung or Panasonic in 2013.

I prefer Screen size, Quality Control and Price...I will choose a samsung tv only if this have a much better picture quality (Overall) than Panasonic.
Extended Warranty only if i buy a samsung. Panasonic for me...no problem in this.

I do agree. I was concerned that some may think that easy IR is standard. I haven't seen even a hint of IR on my 60GT50 without hunting for it, and it was just a hint that I saw- while running the scroller.

Buzz, tools, price

Chris do you think if the ZT or F8500 ends up being amazing you will end up putting one in your personal home?
But then your son will want to trade you his vt50 for yours haha

perhaps due to 51" = 48" actual width, so it fits in a wider variety of standard furniture cabinets?? as an interior designer thats just my thought process!

No, I read the numbers off the VE chart from here:

http://*******/WQH9bb

(I love having to use bitly to get a URL that still gets whacked by the fascism filter... hint... it's a ******* URL... hint... it's the VE shootout... blah blah)

If those are in cd/m^2 someone should tell the moron doing the chart not to use one set of units in one place and one set of units in the other place it's freaking confusing as hell.

And if that's the case then.... .014 is 7x worse than the Panasonic, not 2x worse. And in that case, the Samsung LCD will not satisfy any serious videophile, initial positive reports notwithstanding. And, no, the additional brightness will not help because (a) no one will calibrate cinema mode much above 33 ft/L and (b) I get that people keep believing there is some major ABL effect occurring at that level, but because we keep talking about it I'm actually tuned into it a lot lately and there just isn't.
Edited by rogo - 3/21/13 at 11:56pm

clarity/sharpness/cleanest pq, best at upconverting SD, 51" is ideal size for me, (these are the 3 factors that lead me to the e7000) and now also add style...
i really like that there is no gap between f8500 and table top. hides cords better and less distraction in my situation.... also reliability, but hmmmmmm, is there such a thing anymore
not to mention i am in a situation where i had to make the decision now, not able to wait until all 2013s are available to pick from!
tho this may not really be in the realm of your discussion since my decision was not up against zt60.... oh well, here it is anyway!
Edited by ljmart - 3/22/13 at 12:55am

1. Size-51" is perfect
2. Brightness-need a TV that can get bright for daytime viewing
3. IR- don't want to change viewing habits to avoid IR
4. Buzz- it would drive me nuts
5. Loyalty/reliability-always had good luck and support from Samsung. (Hope that hasn't changed).

I do like bells and whistles but never at the point of compromising quality over extras...

As for #4 I'm kinda optimistic since no mention of buzzing has been made of the sets being seen so far, but it's still early..
Edited by Pinger - 3/22/13 at 5:21am

I think thats EU only not worldwide.......

It is...and has been stated multiple times. There will be plenty of zt's in the states.

Where I am its a thousand dollar difference between the 64F8500 and the 65ZT60.... so if the PQ is similar, then its kind of a no-brainer for me. I have a HTPC so all the "Smart" stuff is a complete waste to me as I seriously doubt a TV will EVER be better than an actual computer. The recent Cnet experience with IR might make me think about if for a moment, but as I watch 90% movies, it might be a factor, but a minor one at best. I find myself kind of cringing at this, as I have always, always, always laughed to myself at folks who buy a tv for how it looks off, but I guess if all else was the same or close, then maybe the dark bezel on the Sammy might be preferable to the thin silver bezel on the Panny in my darkened room. Reliability IS important but I really don't know how one compares to the other. I think that especially on here, there can be a certain amount of brand/tech preference at play, with over exaggerations of some issues, denial of other issues so I think it would be hard for me to extrapolate that into hard facts. I like to think that every model/year CAN be a fresh start, as both of these tv's use some form of "new" technology (thinner cell walls on the Sammy, new glass/bonding process on the Panny) it probably resulted in some changes in the manufacturing process. I know its naive, but I prefer to believe that mistakes can be learned from and corrected (lest I become TOO cynical and jaded LOL).