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Official Panasonic TC-PxxST60 Series thread - Page 380

post #11371 of 12358
Quote:
Originally Posted by snidely View Post

I can see why mfrs. are abandoning plasma. Plasma is the Ferrari or Lamborghini of TV displays. They require more than the usual care in driving (simply turning on and watching) as witnessed by the 300+ pages posted here of problems and specialized settings that aren't necessary on "regular" TV panels.

I'd agree with your statement. Plus higher manufacturing costs. Plasmas do need more care . I would never recommend a plasma for a tv mainly used by kids for example. For your average Joe Blo who has kids who plays video games for example, i could imagine Panasonic going nuts with all of the calls about IR.

99 percent of TV users do not worry about settings, they just watch out of the box and they don't worry about breaking in their tv or avoiding for example watching sport all day.

It just happens that a plasma has always been perfect for me because i have quite a short attention span so never watch or do anything for that long before switching to something else.

There will definitely be future tech with better than plasma quality picture but more robust, whether that's OLED, who knows
post #11372 of 12358
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri View Post

These are all the settings you really need to worry about.

Thanks a lot cyberbri -- that will provide a good starting point. Some further questions (for you or others) on these settings...
Quote:
C.A.T.S: Off

In a room like mine where there is a window, and thus ambient light varies throughout a day, is there some merit to using C.A.T.S. or does it consistently result in a worse image?
Quote:
Motion Smoother: Off

I've seen reviews saying the smoother is actually quite good on the set. I'm leaving it off for now, mainly because I guess it could worsen input lag for gaming... To be honest, not sure if I see much difference but again isn't there any merit to enable the smoother?
Quote:
HDMI/DVI RGB Range
***Leave settings in this menu at their default***

On that topic, I posted something a few days ago that wasn't replied to. Anybody knows what the "Auto" setting does there? Because at first sight, it seems to me that it sets the display to Limited (Standard) range, unless values outside the 16-235 range are sent to the TV, in which case it uses the Full (Non-standard) range and stays there. When playing Limited range content on Full range mode, this will significantly worsen the picture quality of course (blacks will be charcoal, whites will be light gray).

This isn't much of a problem if you only play blu-rays or cable TV, but many people (me included) connect a computer, which typically sends a full range signal, to an AVR, so that on the same input, the TV gets both standard and nonstandard range signals. If HDMI RGB range is set on Auto, which is the default setting, this will lead to the TV being set to nonstandard range and lead to washed out images when playing standard-range content, unless I'm missing an important piece of information here.

I managed to set my PS3 and HTPC to Limited range, and force the TV to limited range too, to prevent the above.
Quote:
*Remember to auto-copy settings from one input over to the others, otherwise you'll have to do it manually per input.

Maybe I went too fast over the settings but... how do you do that exactly?

Thanks again!
post #11373 of 12358
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri View Post

These are all the settings you really need to worry about.

Thanks a lot cyberbri -- that will provide a good starting point. Some further questions (for you or others) on these settings...
Quote:
C.A.T.S: Off

In a room like mine where there is a window, and thus ambient light varies throughout a day, is there some merit to using C.A.T.S. or does it consistently result in a worse image?

CATS - no, in my opinion, because it will make the picture very dark at night.
What you can do is replicate settings between say Cinema and Custom, but make one for day and one for night. I close my blinds partially during the day for direct reflection, but if I'm watching normal TV shows (not dark/nighttime shows/movies) it's usually fine, bright enough.

Quote:
Motion Smoother: Off

I've seen reviews saying the smoother is actually quite good on the set. I'm leaving it off for now, mainly because I guess it could worsen input lag for gaming... To be honest, not sure if I see much difference but again isn't there any merit to enable the smoother?

If you like it, go ahead and use it. Some people like the effect, a lot of us here do not. It makes artificial frames that often appear unnatural (and can appear smoothed/blurry as well, taking away detail). I watched one scene where a car was driving off into the distance, depth-wise and left to right. With smoothing on, it seemed like the car was going a lot faster, even though it wasn't technically moving travelling further. It might be good for sports or something. It's personal preference for you.
Quote:
HDMI/DVI RGB Range
***Leave settings in this menu at their default***


On that topic, I posted something a few days ago that wasn't replied to. Anybody knows what the "Auto" setting does there? Because at first sight, it seems to me that it sets the display to Limited (Standard) range, unless values outside the 16-235 range are sent to the TV, in which case it uses the Full (Non-standard) range and stays there. When playing Limited range content on Full range mode, this will significantly worsen the picture quality of course (blacks will be charcoal, whites will be light gray).

This isn't much of a problem if you only play blu-rays or cable TV, but many people (me included) connect a computer, which typically sends a full range signal, to an AVR, so that on the same input, the TV gets both standard and nonstandard range signals. If HDMI RGB range is set on Auto, which is the default setting, this will lead to the TV being set to nonstandard range and lead to washed out images when playing standard-range content, unless I'm missing an important piece of information here.

I managed to set my PS3 and HTPC to Limited range, and force the TV to limited range too, to prevent the above.

You will be able to tell if something is wrong with the settings, because it will be very dark (no shadow detail) or very washed out (no shadows or black area). You should be fine with what you have there.

Quote:
Quote:
*Remember to auto-copy settings from one input over to the others, otherwise you'll have to do it manually per input.

Maybe I went too fast over the settings but... how do you do that exactly?

Thanks again!

I don't remember the procedure exactly, and I'm not at home to check. I think it might be at the very bottom of the picture menu, though. You should be able to find it with some searching, or someone else will chime in.
post #11374 of 12358
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

Anybody knows what the "Auto" setting does there? Because at first sight, it seems to me that it sets the display to Limited (Standard) range, unless values outside the 16-235 range are sent to the TV, in which case it uses the Full (Non-standard) range and stays there.

I haven't tried to pin down what Auto does, only that it doesn't do what I want, which I guess it can't, because it doesn't know if an RGB signal contains standard video in 16-235 range or PC desktop output. It does not do what you think. For the TV, the 16-235 (Standard) and 0-255 (Non-standard) ranges set the reference black and white levels to those limits. That is, in Standard mode, the TV treats 16 as black and 235 as white, while in Non-standard mode, it treats 0 as black and 255 as white. The incoming signal must match this or you will get things like crushed blacks or gray blacks. Auto mode doesn't switch to "Non-standard" just because it's sent an RGB signal that contains standard 16-235 video but also contains BTB and WTW content. It stays in "Standard", which is 16-235. This is what all TVs should do. BTB is useful for calibrating Brightness, while WTW can appear rarely in real material. You will see these values if you play the AVS HD 709 Black Clipping and White Clipping patterns from a device using the standard 16-235 Video Levels and with the TV set to Auto or Standard.

Quote:
When playing Limited range content on Full range mode, this will significantly worsen the picture quality of course (blacks will be charcoal, whites will be light gray).

Right, if "charcoal" is gray. The levels need to match. Sending 16-235 content that hasn't been expanded to 0-255 to the TV that is set to 0-255 results in blacks being gray, because in the video, 16 is black, but on the TV, 0 is black, and 16 is a shade of gray. To use 0-255 (Non-standard) mode on the TV, the video has to be expanded to 0-255.

Quote:
This isn't much of a problem if you only play blu-rays or cable TV, but many people (me included) connect a computer, which typically sends a full range signal, to an AVR, so that on the same input, the TV gets both standard and nonstandard range signals. If HDMI RGB range is set on Auto, which is the default setting, this will lead to the TV being set to nonstandard range and lead to washed out images when playing standard-range content, unless I'm missing an important piece of information here.

I managed to set my PS3 and HTPC to Limited range, and force the TV to limited range too, to prevent the above.

For a detailed discussion on setting up an HTPC, at least with Nvidia cards, see my messages in this thread and the post 10k quoted in his message:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1511558/reference-as-correct-as-possible-output-from-a-laptop#post_24209683
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1511558/reference-as-correct-as-possible-output-from-a-laptop#post_24208649
post #11375 of 12358
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

Kids throwing stuff is the most common cause of cracked TV screens, so at least your not alone.

A. Try to find a new one immediately and buy it, or buy a VT60 or ZT60 while there are still some available.

B. See if your local repair shop can replace the panel and any internal boards that got burned out when the Plasma panel was compromised, but that's usually more than the cost of a new TV.

C. Buy a Samsung F8500.

D. Start shopping for an LCD TV.


You forgot "save this as a parts tv" As Panasonic won't be stocking parts forever.smile.gif

There maybe usefull boards, etc.. even though the panel's shot.
post #11376 of 12358
Thanks guys for the quick replies. I only played a bit with the set's settings so far; it's way easier with your informed opinions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri View Post

CATS - no, in my opinion, because it will make the picture very dark at night.

That was also my conclusion although I wondered if there was some way to adjust the baseline brightness.
Quote:
If you like it, go ahead and use it. Some people like the effect, a lot of us here do not. It makes artificial frames that often appear unnatural (and can appear smoothed/blurry as well, taking away detail).

I'll have to test that one more with scenes including lots of movement. But it looks like I'll stay with the smoother off then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sawfish View Post

I haven't tried to pin down what Auto does, only that it doesn't do what I want, which I guess it can't,

Indeed biggrin.gif
Quote:
Auto mode doesn't switch to "Non-standard" just because it's sent an RGB signal that contains standard 16-235 video but also contains BTB and WTW content.

Ah, forgot about BTB and WTW.
Quote:
The levels need to match. Sending 16-235 content that hasn't been expanded to 0-255 to the TV that is set to 0-255 results in blacks being gray, because in the video, 16 is black, but on the TV, 0 is black, and 16 is a shade of gray. To use 0-255 (Non-standard) mode on the TV, the video has to be expanded to 0-255.

I wonder if my AVR has such capabilities. It would be great if I could seamlessly display standard and non-standard ranges correctly on the same display. I don't mind much my current settings but it still means losing 5 bits of dynamic range for nonstandard sources.
Quote:
For a detailed discussion on setting up an HTPC, at least with Nvidia cards, see my messages in this thread and the post 10k quoted in his message:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1511558/reference-as-correct-as-possible-output-from-a-laptop#post_24209683
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1511558/reference-as-correct-as-possible-output-from-a-laptop#post_24208649

Thanks for the links, I'll try to study that. Are you (and 10k) implying that setting the nvidia driver to Limited output still results in crushed blacks for desktop apps? Well I don't mind that much if video is ok but I thought the video card would just rescale as needed to the standard range. I'll have to try with a non-video contrast/brightness test image. And thanks also, I just saw there's an RGB range setting in XBMC Gotham thanks to your post.
post #11377 of 12358
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

Thanks for the links, I'll try to study that. Are you (and 10k) implying that setting the nvidia driver to Limited output still results in crushed blacks for desktop apps? Well I don't mind that much if video is ok but I thought the video card would just rescale as needed to the standard range. I'll have to try with a non-video contrast/brightness test image. And thanks also, I just saw there's an RGB range setting in XBMC Gotham thanks to your post.

The Nvidia Video Dynamic Range option doesn't affect the desktop, only video, and even then it's highly player-dependent. There is no way to make an Nvidia card compress PC levels to Video levels to make the desktop look more correct when the display is set for Video levels. I may have read that AMD cards have that capability.
post #11378 of 12358
Left the TV running D-Nice's break-in slides after lunch today - just wanted to confirm something. I left the picture mode set to "Custom" which has the contrast setting cranked to 100 - is that right?

For TV and Movie watching I have Cnet's settings, except I dialed down the contrast to 50 until I get some hours in. I'll be careful to avoid static graphics, logos, and black bars during the first ~300 hours. I'll be watching real content while I'm home, and the slides overnight and during the work day.

Solid plan? Anything I should do differently?
post #11379 of 12358
Hi Folks, I am contemplating a TC-P50ST60 but want to ask, "Is it true every time one turns the TV on he has to navigate through an App Screen, and disable Adds?

Thanks!
post #11380 of 12358
Quote:
Originally Posted by sawfish View Post

The Nvidia Video Dynamic Range option doesn't affect the desktop, only video, and even then it's highly player-dependent. There is no way to make an Nvidia card compress PC levels to Video levels to make the desktop look more correct when the display is set for Video levels. I may have read that AMD cards have that capability.

frown.gif Well that sucks. However I'm not using my 60ST60 to perform precision photoshopping... I don't mind much color clipping outside of video or gaming. I think one of the links you provided had a post stating that gaming typically outputs standard range... is that true?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2therock View Post

Hi Folks, I am contemplating a TC-P50ST60 but want to ask, "Is it true every time one turns the TV on he has to navigate through an App Screen, and disable Adds?

Err nope. I for one set my "home screen" to full-screen TV, and you can turn off the top menu that briefly appears (no ad there anyway). Just like a normal, vanilla display. When you press the Apps button they you go to the smart apps menu... I haven't seen ads there but I guess you can turn them off if there's any.
post #11381 of 12358
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2therock View Post

Hi Folks, I am contemplating a TC-P50ST60 but want to ask, "Is it true every time one turns the TV on he has to navigate through an App Screen, and disable Adds?

Thanks!

Nope. That is the default setting, but you can go into the setup menus and turn that off. (I don't remember exactly where you do that, but it has been discussed in this thread....just search.) On my P60ST60, every time I turn it on now, it shows a banner briefly across the top reminding me of what is available, but that disappears after a couple of seconds and then it is just on whatever input I have it set to. No apps screen shows up at all unless I press the Apps button on the remote.
post #11382 of 12358
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpc View Post

This is for my friends 65ST60. I just wondered where it was best to start. I actually have D-nice settings on my own 60ST30 ...I put them in 2 years ago after D-nice slide prep and they look ok, but...I think all of our sets would look best with a calibration. Guess I'll just start tinkering away on my set and help my friend with his. Although since I asked this question, he has said he is happy switching between the D-nice and Cnet settings. Hasn't decided which he likes best yet. Anyways, I hear what you're saying.

Well let's put tis way, finding a picture that you can be happy with and having a proper calibration is comparable to the old apples/oranges scenario. There is simply no replacement for an accurate calibration,,, period.

Example, for the last 9 months I've been totally happy with the 79/81 contrast setting of DNice & CNET. I have just had my 50ST60 accurately calibrated and my contrast is now set at 50 with tyhe brightnss of +6 and I'm not missing that extra brightness in the least while having the peace of mind that my plasma will be lasting longer with zero probability of IR. If I have any regrets, it's the fact I had to wait til 3800 running time before I had the funds to afford what this plasma should have had after 300-500 hours.

And the calibrated 3D picture is off the charts too. Get a ISF certified calibration!
post #11383 of 12358
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCCaniac View Post

Nope. That is the default setting, but you can go into the setup menus and turn that off. (I don't remember exactly where you do that, but it has been discussed in this thread....just search.) On my P60ST60, every time I turn it on now, it shows a banner briefly across the top reminding me of what is available, but that disappears after a couple of seconds and then it is just on whatever input I have it set to. No apps screen shows up at all unless I press the Apps button on the remote.

Thanks, I'm shopping and they are not readily available, but Sears has them for 999. Any tips or sources would be great. 50-inch.
post #11384 of 12358
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2therock View Post

Thanks, I'm shopping and they are not readily available, but Sears has them for 999. Any tips or sources would be great. 50-inch.

On the initial setup, it asks what homescreen you want to use. Just select the LIVETV homescreen, and it will come up with the TV every time.

Other than Sears, check Best Buys (check the Closeout and special section, then enter your zip code and how many miles you want to search), and Amazon.com and their resellers.
post #11385 of 12358
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2therock View Post


Thanks, I'm shopping and they are not readily available, but Sears has them for 999. Any tips or sources would be great. 50-inch.

If Sears has it for $999, my advice would be to grab it.  They are definitely getting scarce out there, and of course, once they're gone you'll not likely have another opportunity to own one.  I bought mine last month, and I'm very happy with it.  Good luck!

post #11386 of 12358
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

frown.gif Well that sucks. However I'm not using my 60ST60 to perform precision photoshopping... I don't mind much color clipping outside of video or gaming. I think one of the links you provided had a post stating that gaming typically outputs standard range... is that true?

PC games output PC Levels, 0-255. Don't know about consoles, but I may have read they have selectable output levels.
post #11387 of 12358
I just got a new ST60 and I entered the service menu and checked is there any abnormality in the picture.

Watching those color patterns I saw this interesting change of black.

The black is not black , if I watch very close I can see grey horizontal lines moving ONLY on the black background . There is one patter - the black BG with the smaller white square when those gray lines disappear and the black is pure black.

Can someone confirm this about the grey horizontal lines ? They are visible in normal content if you have black bars.
post #11388 of 12358
Quote:
Originally Posted by sawfish View Post

PC games output PC Levels, 0-255. Don't know about consoles, but I may have read they have selectable output levels.

So is there any hope of getting the correct dynamic range if one is both watching videos and doing PC gaming on the same TV input? frown.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by covix View Post

I just got a new ST60 and I entered the service menu and checked is there any abnormality in the picture.

Watching those color patterns I saw this interesting change of black.

The black is not black , if I watch very close I can see grey horizontal lines moving ONLY on the black background . There is one patter - the black BG with the smaller white square when those gray lines disappear and the black is pure black.

Can someone confirm this about the grey horizontal lines ? They are visible in normal content if you have black bars.

Are you talking about dithering? Faint, moving gray pixels on certain shades? That would be normal for shades above true black.
post #11389 of 12358
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post


Are you talking about dithering? Faint, moving gray pixels on certain shades? That would be normal for shades above true black.

No, Im talking about moving thin horizontal LINES not pixels. They are visible only in black BG such as black bars, or black screen.
post #11390 of 12358
Quote:
Originally Posted by mykereid View Post

If Sears has it for $999, my advice would be to grab it.  They are definitely getting scarce out there, and of course, once they're gone you'll not likely have another opportunity to own one.  I bought mine last month, and I'm very happy with it.  Good luck!

Well, Looks like I will have to relax and wait for LED/LCD to catch up. Sears has one in Augusta GA for pick up only, 200 miles one way. I'm not that hot to trot.

I have to table mount @ no wider than 47 total width across. I have a 2005 1080i Hitachi 42HDT52A that is nothing less than awesome and with its electric swivel base it would be missed.
I was just going to pick up one of these before the tech goes away.

Thanks
post #11391 of 12358
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

So is there any hope of getting the correct dynamic range if one is both watching videos and doing PC gaming on the same TV input? frown.gif
.

Sure. Set the TV to use expanded range (I forget what they call it in the menu), so that it will always expect 0-255 range input.

In the PC video card, set the pixel format to RGB Full (0-255). This will force video color space to be expanded to full range. On AMD cards, this is in the control center's "Pixel Format" section.

Desktop stuff I believe is always output full, same with games, I believe.

Marc
post #11392 of 12358
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

I for one set my "home screen" to full-screen TV, and you can turn off the top menu that briefly appears (no ad there anyway). Just like a normal, vanilla display.

?? How do you turn off that top menu that briefly appears when you first turn the TV on? I haven't been able to find a way to eliminate that from my Full Screen TV home screen (or any other screen upon startup). Banner Ads is turned off, but that pesky top menu persists.
post #11393 of 12358
Quote:
Originally Posted by covix View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post


Are you talking about dithering? Faint, moving gray pixels on certain shades? That would be normal for shades above true black.

No, Im talking about moving thin horizontal LINES not pixels. They are visible only in black BG such as black bars, or black screen.

Could be line bleed, if they line up with other horizontal elements elsewhere on the screen (for example edges of a box, like on the green "this preview has been approved for all audiences" screen). Line bleed is normal for this kind of TV.
post #11394 of 12358
I ended up picking up a floor model ST60 for my bedroom (50 inch) from a local Best Buy last night. I was originally going to wait to see what Samsung delivered later in the year, but absolutely fell in love with the ST60. I’ve always had a love/hate relationship with Panasonic. I love their picture quality and processing, but hate dealing with IR issues/fears.

No break-in slides for me. A quick slide run with my USB drive revealed no burn-in, which was my biggest fear in a floor model. The set was basically running a Viera demo all day. I also checked the hours and used that information to haggle them down on the price (3600 hours!).

I’m actually very impressed with the black-levels on this set. I used to have a VT60 in my living room before frying a HUD logo into the screen due to a 100 contrast setting (returned it to Amazon) and the blacks on this set look almost as good.

Settings are tricky for me. I’m used to THX settings, so a desire for more brightness has never been an issue with me. I’ve also found that by switching to Cinema and turning off all the enhancements, I’m mostly pleased with the overall look. The only thing that concerns me is a “safe” contrast setting.

Personally, I’ve never bought into that whole belief that sets become more IR resistant as they age. Even at 3600 hours, I clearly saw the Netflix logo in a sky scene several minutes after starting a streaming episode of Dexter (default Contrast of 80). And that logo was only up for maybe 3-4 minutes! Granted, it did go away relatively quickly (10 minutes), but after my past experience, I’m a little cautious after what happened to my VT60.

My experience has me convinced that Contrast is key with these Panasonics when it comes to controlling IR/burn-in. Cranking it to 100 is just asking for trouble, as I quickly learned. My VT60 had minimal IR in its low contrast THX mode of 60. Unfortunately, THX is not an option on the ST60.

Is anyone here using a Contrast setting of 60-70 in Cinema mode? It seems that most of you guys are doing that until your panel ages - but mine is well past that. Has anyone kept their contrast setting this low? I noticed that the guy who reviewed the set on flatpanelshd.com posted a contrast setting of 60 in his calibration of “True Cinema” (which I’m assuming is the same thing?).

I guess the question is: How low can you go (in Cinema) without losing detail in your opinions? My watching and occasional gaming are primarily in a dark room with very little light.
post #11395 of 12358
I keep my Contrast at 80, but sometimes will turn it down to 65~75 if I am doing something with static logo/hud like playing a video game for an extended period of time. At night or in a very dark room even 65~75 is still pretty bright. Just make sure to re-check your Brightness (minimum black level) setting if you adjust contrast, because they are related (will probably have to turn Brightness up a little if you turn down Contrast/max white output)
post #11396 of 12358
I had unremoveable ir occur at a contrast setting of 83. I would try to stay below 80. Then again you could have got a set that you can run in the mid 80's & have very little ir. It's been a mixed bag. Which tells me Panasonic pulled out long ago.
post #11397 of 12358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc_G View Post

Sure. Set the TV to use expanded range (I forget what they call it in the menu), so that it will always expect 0-255 range input.

In the PC video card, set the pixel format to RGB Full (0-255). This will force video color space to be expanded to full range. On AMD cards, this is in the control center's "Pixel Format" section.

The full context of that was that I'm also using other sources (blu-ray player, TV) using limited (standard) RGB on the same TV input (via an AVR). It looks like the HDMI RGB range setting "Auto" doesn't really work as I get washed out images with it on limited RGB material, i.e. it's like when the TV is set on Nonstandard range.

So right now I put the TV on Standard (limited) range and try to set sources to the same if possible, but it looks like desktop and PC games will have to suffer crushed blacks...
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

?? How do you turn off that top menu that briefly appears when you first turn the TV on? I haven't been able to find a way to eliminate that from my Full Screen TV home screen (or any other screen upon startup). Banner Ads is turned off, but that pesky top menu persists.

Sorry, I thought the "Smart Vierra Banner" setting was for that. Tried it but nope, doesn't get rid of the top menu.
post #11398 of 12358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterpack View Post

99 percent of TV users do not worry about settings, they just watch out of the box and they don't worry about breaking in their tv or avoiding for example watching sport all day.

Break-in is not required for plasma panels. On its own, it serves no purpose.
post #11399 of 12358
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2therock View Post

Hi Folks, I am contemplating a TC-P50ST60 but want to ask, "Is it true every time one turns the TV on he has to navigate through an App Screen, and disable Adds?

Thanks!
The procedure is detailed on CNET. If you can't find it - let me know. I posted a reference to the site sveral months ago. Others have posted the detailed settings to accomplish this as well.
post #11400 of 12358
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

So is there any hope of getting the correct dynamic range if one is both watching videos and doing PC gaming on the same TV input? frown.gif

That was a major part of what we were talking about in the messages I linked to. You would have to use PC levels for everything, and if you wanted to run all devices through an AVR with a single HDMI output, you would have to set all those devices to PC levels, if that's even possible. It isn't possible for my new Sony S5100 BD player, and I gave other reasons why I don't like using PC levels on my HTPC in the message I linked to.
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