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Official Panasonic TC-PxxST60 Series thread - Page 43

post #1261 of 12344
Quote:
Originally Posted by sigmaace01 View Post

I don't think they're always running because you've got to connect to the apps.

Apparently owners/users of both the ST50 and ST60 series have noticed app load times on the ST60 are significantly less delayed (implying that they are running in the background to a certain degree). If they're connected the internet, there's a chance (based on my experience with other applications) they are occasionally pulling data from the web. Any sort of background activity will pull away resources from the image processing...just a thought.
post #1262 of 12344
Quote:
Originally Posted by p3Orion View Post

This is puzzling. So if you have 1:1 pixel mapping (no overscan) what happens if the pixel orbiter is set to AUTO? Does the image shift,causing a black edge(s) to appear at times?
If you have 1:1 pixel mapping on, it's logical to not have the pixel orbiter on because it would defeat the 1:1 pixel mapping. My Pioneer lets me turn the orbiter off, turn it on for all screen modes, or turn it on for all screen modes except dot by dot which is Pioneer for 1:1 pixel mapping. The last option is the one I use, so for the vast majority of our viewing the orbiter is off.

Panasonic's "auto" setting could result in either option one or two above. If the choices are ON or Auto, I would hope that Auto was like the third Pioneer option, otherwise why have any options.
Edited by htwaits - 4/9/13 at 1:10pm
post #1263 of 12344
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricemanva View Post

I read that the HDMI ports are on the side. Any issues with the HDMI cable being visible from normal viewing angles on the 60"? Roughly how far is it from the edge of the 60" panel to the HDMI port?

I am asking because I use a stiffer than usual HDMI cable from Blue Jeans cable that has a large bend radius.

Thanks

if its an issue you could simply get a right angle HDMI adapter
post #1264 of 12344
Quote:
Originally Posted by p3Orion View Post

This is puzzling. So if you have 1:1 pixel mapping (no overscan) what happens if the pixel orbiter is set to AUTO? Does the image shift,causing a black edge(s) to appear at times?

FWIW ive always run the orbiter ON on my G20 with it set to 1:1 and ive never seen it move the image so a black line appears. it may happen but from 10 feet i sure have not seen it
post #1265 of 12344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stump909 View Post

Apparently owners/users of both the ST50 and ST60 series have noticed app load times on the ST60 are significantly less delayed (implying that they are running in the background to a certain degree). If they're connected the internet, there's a chance (based on my experience with other applications) they are occasionally pulling data from the web. Any sort of background activity will pull away resources from the image processing...just a thought.

Maybe disconnect the TV from the internet while on your game system and see if that makes a difference.
post #1266 of 12344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sibuna View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricemanva View Post

I read that the HDMI ports are on the side. Any issues with the HDMI cable being visible from normal viewing angles on the 60"? Roughly how far is it from the edge of the 60" panel to the HDMI port?

I am asking because I use a stiffer than usual HDMI cable from Blue Jeans cable that has a large bend radius.

Thanks

if its an issue you could simply get a right angle HDMI adapter
... or a Redmere Ultra Thin (36 AWG) technology cable if you need up to 15' -- adapters (it takes two) and Redmere are available at Monoprice. Personally I like as few HDMI connections as possible in a signal path. A lot of people are using the adapters and like them.
post #1267 of 12344
While I am not sure what good it will do me I have contacted Panasonic customer support about the input lag issue.

I've gone one step further and disabled the wireless internet on my device hoping that it would alleviate some of the processing stress and maybe in turn boost input response. I will be playing Halo 4 again soon to see if I notice a difference.

E: They've escalated me. I will get a call back in "24-40 hours".
post #1268 of 12344
Atty, do you play BF3?
post #1269 of 12344
Quote:
Originally Posted by mphfrom77 View Post

Atty, do you play BF3?
I own it but haven't played it in some time. Why?
post #1270 of 12344
I would like to hear some opinions on how well the 96hz. Mode for film content functions on the ST60.

Does it flicker? If so how much?

How is the motion?

I liked the motion of the 48hz. Mode on the 50's but it was unwatchable because of flicker. The frame interpolation of the 60hz. Bothered me for movies so I am really hoping the 96hz functions well.
post #1271 of 12344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stump909 View Post

Apparently owners/users of both the ST50 and ST60 series have noticed app load times on the ST60 are significantly less delayed (implying that they are running in the background to a certain degree). If they're connected the internet, there's a chance (based on my experience with other applications) they are occasionally pulling data from the web. Any sort of background activity will pull away resources from the image processing...just a thought.

There are some apps that are instantly loadable once you run them. The paint program for the touch pens is one, it loads instantly. No loading screen, no connecting, so I'm guessing it's constantly cached or always on.

Other apps that require the web will take time to connect, you can easily tell these by the... Connecting... spinny logo.

Then, there are apps that can only be launched from a customized Home page. Home pages are set up via the Home menu that have a range of Full screen regular content, or a picture-in-picture option with apps running alongside the video content.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atty View Post

While I am not sure what good it will do me I have contacted Panasonic customer support about the input lag issue.

I've gone one step further and disabled the wireless internet on my device hoping that it would alleviate some of the processing stress and maybe in turn boost input response. I will be playing Halo 4 again soon to see if I notice a difference.

E: They've escalated me. I will get a call back in "24-40 hours".

Could you post about this in the input lag thread please? I emailed them and pretty much got nothing, they asked for what problems I was having even though I sent them a list of the problems I was having...
Quote:
Originally Posted by wattheF View Post

I would like to hear some opinions on how well the 96hz. Mode for film content functions on the ST60.

Does it flicker? If so how much?

How is the motion?

I liked the motion of the 48hz. Mode on the 50's but it was unwatchable because of flicker. The frame interpolation of the 60hz. Bothered me for movies so I am really hoping the 96hz functions well.

No flicker unless you're in 48 Hz mode. Motion is all right, film content motion is fine although sometimes I catch glimpses of RGB trailing (see below in comments) during horizontal pans with dark objects on bright backgrounds. Game motion during horizontal camera pan, becomes very noticeable. 96 Hz and 120 Hz are both about the same if you enable 24p playback mode, which looks very nice.


Questions about Pixel orbiter. For what it's worth, I feel like it's a worthless feature. There are 2 settings, ON or AUTO. AUTO, is essentially OFF. I think they changed the name because uh, well, maybe they were getting a lot of paranoia emails and calls about burn in. So maybe they think if they convince the masses their TV is constantly working against burn in, they'll have less paranoia about it.

My thoughts on it, is that it's worthless, since it only shifts the image a tiny bit (that to my eyes is very noticeable) however, most static images and such, are not so small to be shifted. For example, a UI during a game, is still going to have the same bright spots and dark spots even if it shifts a tiny bit, so you'll still get IR anyway.


Ok, I'm going to comment on some stuff not related to input lag and in comparison to last year's UT50.

Good things about the set:

2D to 3D conversion is much nicer than on the 2012 UT50, it's a huge improvement. Is it good enough to create depth to an image on par with real 3D? Not even close, but it does offer a tiny bit of depth boost., and there are much less artifacts over the older 2012 algorithms they used, for example, text is much easier to read.

Pixel orbiter is much less noticeable, it's also much smoother of a shift and less of a jerky pop than on the UT50, but I still think it's very annoying.

Image uniformity is much nicer. I haven't noticed any DSE.

Image is very clear, and the AR filter works extremely nicely. Pleasantly surprised by the AR filter.

Gradients are much smoother. Obviously a given over the UT50, since it has more gradients, but it does make a very big difference.

Motion smoothing has been largely improved. Much less artifacts than the UT50, so that got an update as well. I actually really like the motion smoothing on 3D content, it adds another layer of realism to an already outstanding sense of depth the set offers.

Horizontal color bleeding is minimal compared to the UT50 and the ST50 (ran a test on the ST50 at the store) and much more under control.

The picture is outstanding. I can't say more than enough good things about the picture.

When 3D is enabled, all ghosting artifacts tend to disappear, see below in bad things about the set.


Bad things about the set:

3D for some reason, cuts off the left and right sides of the screen. I don't recall this on my UT50, or if it did happen, it was negligible. Very noticeable on the ST60, even with all the overscan and zoom turned off. I don't understand what's going on.

Service menu takes A LOT longer to load than the UT50. Service menu doesn't have any extra options, so why it takes longer... Must be all the damn apps running.

Service menu activation still has the brightness fluctuation bug that the 2012 models had.

Service menu activation still has the auto-overscan bug, so when it loads, you get a very zoomed in image with no way to turn it off. I don't get this either, service menu should for the TV into native modes.

Hate the OS that runs on top of the TV image at all times. You can't turn it off.

My set has a pink blob, noticeable on white content. Like this forum, every time I visit it, I can see that damn pink blob.... Not sure if this will be common or not.

I noticed this on my UT50 as well, but during fast horizontal panning, with mid tone to dark objects on a light background, there is RGB trailing, and it's extremely distracting. RGB trailing, how can I describe. Say I have a white background with a dark box. If it moves fast, the left and right edges of said box will have green/red or green/blue, or red/blue, or whatever, trailing it in front and behind the box. I only notice it during 2D mode, 3D will create a slight ghost image but there is no split color trails, the colors are "converged" if you get what I mean and the image simply looks like a ghost image, and that is ok I can live with it.. Keep in mind I'm coming from CRT, this is my first real experience with plasmas. This is something I really don't like.


So there you have it. My thoughts on the set, for the people in this thread not worried about input lag and simply wondering about other features or how they compare to 2012 Pannys. If anyone has anymore questions, let me know.
post #1272 of 12344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

Hate the OS that runs on top of the TV image at all times. You can't turn it off.

You are speaking about background operations, right?
post #1273 of 12344
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThrowingChicken View Post

You are speaking about background operations, right?

Background processes that are always running, yes. Like, multiple Home Screens. You press it, it comes up, and select a screen. Any added apps to say, the Lifestyle screen, are in that screen which runs on top of your video and can be loaded instantly. You can have multiple screens, add new custom screens, and these can be switched on the fly.

So, say I create a screen with the video from the TV, and a bunch of calendar apps. I could then create another screen, with a bunch of touch pen apps. I can then press Home at any time and then swap between these screens at any time, and then load up any of those apps instantly at any time, UNLESS they're internet apps that require connecting to the internet.

You can delete any custom home screens, but you can't remove Lifestyle or Info. So, you always have those two running on top of your regular TV viewing. This TV is very heavy with background processes, and I won't comment further, lol. Different thread for that.
post #1274 of 12344
Just a quick question for people that already have the TV. I fully intend on using Game Mode to try and combat the input lag. However, I use my PS3 for both gaming AND Blu-Rays.

I was just wondering if it's easy to switch between your saved Game Mode settings and your natural settings you use the rest of the time?
post #1275 of 12344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack25 View Post

Just a quick question for people that already have the TV. I fully intend on using Game Mode to try and combat the input lag. However, I use my PS3 for both gaming AND Blu-Rays.

I was just wondering if it's easy to switch between your saved Game Mode settings and your natural settings you use the rest of the time?

It's just an on/off setting. At the moment, it doesn't affect the image quality (which is unusual).
post #1276 of 12344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatal One View Post

...

If I had to say there was one thing that is nagging me with this set is that, for some reason, it will not always complete the HDCP handshake with my Win7 HTPC and nothing works to get the two to try and renegotiate short of power cycling the TV or unplugging the cable. I believe this may have something to do with the Apps but I am still tracing the root cause. ...

Has the handshake issue improved any?
post #1277 of 12344
I know Panasonic had an event last night showing off their new 2013 lineup. I saw info about it on Engadget. Anyone know if they're going to post any impressions? I've searched the site and can't find anything.
post #1278 of 12344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stump909 View Post

It's just an on/off setting. At the moment, it doesn't affect the image quality (which is unusual).
Thanks for the reply!
post #1279 of 12344
Quote:
Originally Posted by kobyh15 View Post

I know Panasonic had an event last night showing off their new 2013 lineup. I saw info about it on Engadget. Anyone know if they're going to post any impressions? I've searched the site and can't find anything.

Take a look in the F8500 thread, Ken posted his thoughts ont he Event, there are some thoughts posted over at HDJ as well......When it comes down to it, both people felt that they walked away with an inconclusive feeling...Its beter to wait for the shootout when the calibrators can actually get their hands on the set.....There were some good things they liked about the ZT, but didnt walk away feeling that this was for sure the "Kuro Killer".....
post #1280 of 12344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

Gradients are much smoother. Obviously a given over the UT50, since it has more gradients, but it does make a very big difference.

I appreciate you contributing your thoughts, but I'm not sure I'd put much stock into the number of gradients being any kind of determining factor.

Case in point: the ST60 has half the number of gradients as 2012's GT50. Despite that, and by nearly all accounts, the ST60 produces a superior image.
post #1281 of 12344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

Gradients are much smoother. Obviously a given over the UT50, since it has more gradients, but it does make a very big difference.

I appreciate you contributing your thoughts, but I'm not sure I'd put much stock into the number of gradients being any kind of determining factor.

Case in point: the ST60 has half the number of gradients as 2012's GT50. Despite that, and by nearly all accounts, the ST60 produces a superior image.
post #1282 of 12344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Take a look in the F8500 thread, Ken posted his thoughts ont he Event, there are some thoughts posted over at HDJ as well......When it comes down to it, both people felt that they walked away with an inconclusive feeling...Its beter to wait for the shootout when the calibrators can actually get their hands on the set.....There were some good things they liked about the ZT, but didnt walk away feeling that this was for sure the "Kuro Killer".....

Alright, will do. Thanks!
post #1283 of 12344
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKA View Post

I appreciate you contributing your thoughts, but I'm not sure I'd put much stock into the number of gradients being any kind of determining factor.

Case in point: the ST60 has half the number of gradients as 2012's GT50. Despite that, and by nearly all accounts, the ST60 produces a superior image.

+1

Also, the gradations are only available on certain modes. On the 2012 models it was only Cinema.
post #1284 of 12344
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKA View Post

I appreciate you contributing your thoughts, but I'm not sure I'd put much stock into the number of gradients being any kind of determining factor.

Case in point: the ST60 has half the number of gradients as 2012's GT50. Despite that, and by nearly all accounts, the ST60 produces a superior image.
Interesting...

I couldn't get a 55GT50 in the UK and didn't to get the 50", so went for the 55ST50 instead. Does the ST60 therefore have the same number of gradations as the ST50? The PQ must be really amazing on the ST60 as the ST50 never fails to impress me smile.gif


Quote:
Originally Posted by JSpectre88 View Post

+1

Also, the gradations are only available on certain modes. On the 2012 models it was only Cinema.
Is this why 'Normal' on my UK version looks terrible compared to Cinema or True Cinema, even though I've adjusted the settings to broadly the same?
post #1285 of 12344
is ST50 really 'soft'? Can someone please elaborate on what's considered 'soft'? I'm about to pull the trigger on the 60ST50.
post #1286 of 12344
Quote:
Originally Posted by fanbanlo View Post

is ST50 really 'soft'? Can someone please elaborate on what's considered 'soft'? I'm about to pull the trigger on the 60ST50.


Better question. Why buy an inferior TV? I mean, unless you're getting the deal of a life time here.
post #1287 of 12344
Quote:
Originally Posted by MemX View Post

Interesting...

Is this why 'Normal' on my UK version looks terrible compared to Cinema or True Cinema, even though I've adjusted the settings to broadly the same?

I'm not sure how UK models work, but Cinema mode on the 2012 models looked pretty bad.

The THX Cinema modes were actually quite good though, if a bit too dim.
post #1288 of 12344
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKA View Post

I appreciate you contributing your thoughts, but I'm not sure I'd put much stock into the number of gradients being any kind of determining factor.

Case in point: the ST60 has half the number of gradients as 2012's GT50. Despite that, and by nearly all accounts, the ST60 produces a superior image.

I don't know, I see the difference between the UT50 and the ST60, by a long shot. UT50 has less than half the gradients the ST60 has, and I can definitely see the difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSpectre88 View Post

+1

Also, the gradations are only available on certain modes. On the 2012 models it was only Cinema.

Custom, too, flipping between the two there wasn't any difference other than the default settings. On the UT50, Custom, Game, and Cinema all seemed to share the same gradation. Vivid had more dithering and then Standard had the least dithering and ugliest and lowest quality. Why is that mode even included? I don't see why they would have different gradations for different modes, these modern TV's make no sense. If only my CRT was larger and had 3D frown.gif
post #1289 of 12344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

Custom, too, flipping between the two there wasn't any difference other than the default settings. On the UT50, Custom, Game, and Cinema all seemed to share the same gradation. Vivid had more dithering and then Standard had the least dithering and ugliest and lowest quality. Why is that mode even included? I don't see why they would have different gradations for different modes, these modern TV's make no sense. If only my CRT was larger and had 3D frown.gif

I don't know about the ST60, but for 2012 models it is only Cinema that has the extra steps.

Technically, Custom with low panel brightness too, but that looks just as bad.
post #1290 of 12344
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSpectre88 View Post

Better question. Why buy an inferior TV? I mean, unless you're getting the deal of a life time here.

60ST50 is $350 cheaper then 60ST60. Is the ST60 $350 better in terms of improved sharpness + 2x glasses?
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