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Official Panasonic TC-PxxST60 Series thread - Page 99

post #2941 of 12345
Quote:
Originally Posted by bouo2492 View Post

Hi guys,

I'm a new owner of a 55ST60. I have a small problem with my display and need your opinions on what to do with it. I was running the D-Nice slides and saw 3-4 faint lines in the right side of the panel on the white/pale grey slides. They are barery visible, but enough to know that they are there. Under normal watching, I can see them if I focus on them, but they are not very distracting. I'm still in my return period, so i'm wondering if I should take my chances with another panel ?

Here's 2 pictures of them. I modified some settings on the pictures so you can clearly see the lines:



Many have one bar on their ST60, but it's completely on the right, not as far left as you, and only one bar. I also don't think it's visible when viewing regular content, only visible with some of the light colored slides.

I think you might have a problem with your current set 😳
post #2942 of 12345
Quote:
Originally Posted by bouo2492 View Post

Hi guys,

I'm a new owner of a 55ST60. I have a small problem with my display and need your opinions on what to do with it. I was running the D-Nice slides and saw 3-4 faint lines in the right side of the panel on the white/pale grey slides. They are barery visible, but enough to know that they are there. Under normal watching, I can see them if I focus on them, but they are not very distracting. I'm still in my return period, so i'm wondering if I should take my chances with another panel ?

Here's 2 pictures of them. I modified some settings on the pictures so you can clearly see the lines:



You can see that from normal viewing distance ? Finish your break in watch some content from your easy chair and then decide
post #2943 of 12345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu_One View Post

Ok... so?? 😳
biggrin.gif Right on, this will "probably" be the best bargain TV of 2013 wink.gif
post #2944 of 12345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

biggrin.gif Right on, this will "probably" be the best bargain TV of 2013 wink.gif

Watched Avatar last night, first time I see the movie if you can believe that.. absolutely stunning on the 65ST60, with the Darblet inline, sitting 9 feet away 😎

Next up Avatar 3D, will also be first time I see 3D in home.. should be good from what I hear !

Can't go wrong with the ST60 !
(Unless you're a hard hardcore gamer.. lol)
post #2945 of 12345
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

You can see that from normal viewing distance ? Finish your break in watch some content from your easy chair and then decide

Yes I can. Do you think that's the kind of problem Panasonic concierge service will solved ? Much simpler for me if they can come home to check this out than to return my set...
post #2946 of 12345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dabois09 View Post

I'm unfortunately left in a position where u have little choice but to exchange it for a new set tomorrow. My 30 days is nearing and I can't gamble with this set thinking it's nothing, and then paying for Calibration only to have the issue revealed there.

Going to exchange to see it my it remedies it.

Here's the issues:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3zEpi-d_as&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Are you seeing it on all channels, over the air and with other materials ie: blu-ray and on all inputs?
post #2947 of 12345
Quote:
Originally Posted by bouo2492 View Post

Yes I can. Do you think that's the kind of problem Panasonic concierge service will solved ? Much simpler for me if they can come home to check this out than to return my set...

I know what you mean by convenience, but if this was mine, I wouldn't keep it, and I'd much rather get a new one than to get this one fixed.. don't know if they could even fix a defective panel.
post #2948 of 12345
Okay, so 3d fix for now it put put motion smoother on Strong. I was watching Ice Age 3d blu-ray and the cross talk and blur just made it unwatchable. It was so bad that I was going to exchange the ST60 for a Samsung es7100. Then couldn't bare the thought of going back to an LED TV after being spoiled by the crazy good picture on the ST60. Then reading about all the screen issues on the 7100.

So I was determined to get a decent 3d picture that I know I have gotten before on this TV. Sure enough turning the motion smoother on Strong while watching Ice Age made the picture great and removed all the crosstalk and blur and made the 3d picture great. It would be nice if Panasonic fixes this issue and motion smoother would not be needed to achieve a decent 3d picture but anyway for now it works fine and saves me from going through the LED torture!
post #2949 of 12345
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

Okay, so 3d fix for now it put put motion smoother on Strong. I was watching Ice Age 3d blu-ray and the cross talk and blur just made it unwatchable. It was so bad that I was going to exchange the ST60 for a Samsung es7100. Then couldn't bare the thought of going back to an LED TV after being spoiled by the crazy good picture on the ST60. Then reading about all the screen issues on the 7100.

So I was determined to get a decent 3d picture that I know I have gotten before on this TV. Sure enough turning the motion smoother on Strong while watching Ice Age made the picture great and removed all the crosstalk and blur and made the 3d picture great. It would be nice if Panasonic fixes this issue and motion smoother would not be needed to achieve a decent 3d picture but anyway for now it works fine and saves me from going through the LED torture!

Very interesting data point. What if you put the motion smoother on Medium?
post #2950 of 12345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watcher12 View Post

Very interesting data point. What if you put the motion smoother on Medium?
I think depending on what type of film you are watching medium might be efficient enough but don't be afraid to go strong if need be. It doesn't really add the SOE like you would notice in a 2d picture either.

I did like the idea of going back to an LED for the sake of not having to care what is playing on my TV and for how long but going through the es7100 thread and seeing all the pictures of light bleed and flash lighting, it would be extremely hard to accept that as okay.
post #2951 of 12345
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

I think depending on what type of film you are watching medium might be efficient enough but don't be afraid to go strong if need be. It doesn't really add the SOE like you would notice in a 2d picture either.

I did like the idea of going back to an LED for the sake of not having to care what is playing on my TV and for how long but going through the es7100 thread and seeing all the pictures of light bleed and flash lighting, it would be extremely hard to accept that as okay.

I agree that using some level frame interpolation/ de-judder looks great in 3D no matter if it helps the cross-talk situation or not. Have you looked at live action 3D films yet? I'm wondering if using de-judder improves the 3D situation with movies like Prometheus, Avatar, etc.
post #2952 of 12345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watcher12 View Post

I agree that using some level frame interpolation/ de-judder looks great in 3D no matter if it helps the cross-talk situation or not. Have you looked at live action 3D films yet? I'm wondering if using de-judder improves the 3D situation with movies like Prometheus, Avatar, etc.

I'd be interested in knowing this as well since I'm planning on watching Avatar 3D later today..
post #2953 of 12345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watcher12 View Post

I agree that using some level frame interpolation/ de-judder looks great in 3D no matter if it helps the cross-talk situation or not. Have you looked at live action 3D films yet? I'm wondering if using de-judder improves the 3D situation with movies like Prometheus, Avatar, etc.
I watched Avatar a few days back and I remember at first with motion smoother off or on weak it was terrible. My wife couldn't even keep the glasses on. Then I changed it, I do not remember if it was to medium or strong but Avatar was then amazing and the 3d was top notch.

I think what really got me questioning everything was I downloaded a 3d movie on a USB drive and also streamed a 3d movie from VUDU and nothing I did would make it look good. I guess the quality just wasn't good enough to get a good picture no matter what I did. I am curious how it would look on another 3d TV and if it would be handled better but as long as 3d blu-rays can look good and 3net looks good as well then I am okay with some crappy 3d file not looking good.

Oh, and not that I really use the 2d->3d converting feature but for anyone that does, lowering or shutting off motion smoother makes this picture look better when doing this. Really weird. lol
post #2954 of 12345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu_One View Post

I'd be interested in knowing this as well since I'm planning on watching Avatar 3D later today..

Please reply with your findings. smile.gif

Anyone with Prometheus 3D, I would be very interested to hear how cross-talk is with de-judder on versus off in scenes early in the movie aboard the ship. I've seen a few TVs where cross-talk is pretty massive due to the dark backgrounds. And then there's the infamous Hugo torture test ...
post #2955 of 12345
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

I watch Avatar a few days back and I remember at first with motion smoother off or on weak it was terrible. My wife couldn't even keep the glasses on. Then I changed it, I do not remember if it was to medium or strong but Avatar was then amazing and the 3d was top notch.

I think what really got me questioning everything was I downloaded a 3d movie on a USB drive and also streamed a 3d movie from VUDU and nothing I did would make it look good. I guess the quality just wasn't good enough to get a good picture no matter what I did. I am curious how it would look on another 3d TV and if it would be handled better but as long as 3d blu-rays can look good and 3net looks good as well then I am okay with some crappy 3d file not looking good.

I've seen Avatar 3D on the F8500 and it is stunning, along with pretty much everything else I've seen in 3D on it (Prometheus, Finding Nemo, The Lorax). I also saw a few scenes from a compressed rip of Avatar 3D on the F8500 and while it wasn't as good as the Blu-ray cross-talk wasn't an issue, it just had the sharpness/ detail of a movie on cable. In your case when you watched the download of Avatar 3D, was there more cross-talk than the Blu-ray or just less detail/ sharpness?
post #2956 of 12345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watcher12 View Post

I've seen Avatar 3D on the F8500 and it is stunning, along with pretty much everything else I've seen in 3D on it (Prometheus, Finding Nemo, The Lorax). I also saw a few scenes from a compressed rip of Avatar 3D on the F8500 and while it wasn't as good as the Blu-ray cross-talk wasn't an issue, it just had the sharpness/ detail of a movie on cable. In your case when you watched the download of Avatar 3D, was there more cross-talk than the Blu-ray or just less detail/ sharpness?
I have the blu-ray of Avatar and it does look amazing once motion smoother is enabled. The downloaded file was of Sammy's Adventure 2. Don't have blu-ray to compare that one to. I am guessing the blu-ray would be great. I just checked the and the mkv file I have was only 700mb so I am guessing it is pretty bad.

With your blu ray, turn off motion smoother and you will see how bad it is. Then turn it up and see how it becomes night and day. I am surprised Panasonic would actually release something like this. If you need this on to make a 3d picture watchable you would think they would active something behind the scenes to give you the best picture possible and not make us have to play with things to make it work or even lead people to returning the TV!
post #2957 of 12345
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

Okay, so 3d fix for now it put put motion smoother on Strong. I was watching Ice Age 3d blu-ray and the cross talk and blur just made it unwatchable. It was so bad that I was going to exchange the ST60 for a Samsung es7100. Then couldn't bare the thought of going back to an LED TV after being spoiled by the crazy good picture on the ST60. Then reading about all the screen issues on the 7100.

So I was determined to get a decent 3d picture that I know I have gotten before on this TV. Sure enough turning the motion smoother on Strong while watching Ice Age made the picture great and removed all the crosstalk and blur and made the 3d picture great. It would be nice if Panasonic fixes this issue and motion smoother would not be needed to achieve a decent 3d picture but anyway for now it works fine and saves me from going through the LED torture!

Ok, that's fine for those that don't mind SOE, but I. Personally will not watch a film with motion smoothing because of SOE.

So where does that leave me as far as 3D goes?

Would you recommend a different tv if 3D was fairly important to me?
post #2958 of 12345
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

I have the blu-ray of Avatar and it does look amazing once motion smoother is enabled. The downloaded file was of Sammy's Adventure 2. Don't have blu-ray to compare that one to. I am guessing the blu-ray would be great. I just checked the and the mkv file I have was only 700mb so I am guessing it is pretty bad.

With your blu ray, turn off motion smoother and you will see how bad it is. Then turn it up and see how it becomes night and day. I am surprised Panasonic would actually release something like this. If you need this on to make a 3d picture watchable you would think they would active something behind the scenes to give you the best picture possible and not make us have to play with things to make it work or even lead people to returning the TV!

I don't have the ST60 yet but was considering it for its excellent price/ performance ratio until some well known reviews pointed out how bad its 3D was. I wonder if they took your findings into account? Personally, I would turn on de-judder anyways (especially in 3D), so I don't really care if the 24p mode in 3D looks like arse. smile.gif I think I'm going to head to my local BBY to have a look at this for myself.
post #2959 of 12345
Quote:
Originally Posted by wattheF View Post

Ok, that's fine for those that don't mind SOE, but I. Personally will not watch a film with motion smoothing because of SOE.

So where does that leave me as far as 3D goes?

Would you recommend a different tv if 3D was fairly important to me?
It doesn't really produce a soe while in 3d.

3d is important to me and I was going to return the TV because of it. In truth though the amount of 3d you watch compared to 2d will not even be close no matter how much 3d you think you will watch. There is nothing else anywhere near this price range or even more that will touch this 2d picture.

I hope others post back their findings....
post #2960 of 12345
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

It doesn't really produce a soe while in 3d.

3d is important to me and I was going to return the TV because of it. In truth though the amount of 3d you watch compared to 2d will not even be close no matter how much 3d you think you will watch. There is nothing else anywhere near this price range or even more that will touch this 2d picture.

I hope others post back their findings....

+1 about the SOE on 3D

Although the 3D picture looks better with motion set to strong, there is no SOE associated with it.
Now 2D?? Thats a different story. wink.gif
post #2961 of 12345
Egads, I woke up this morning to the weirdest problem on my P50ST60. My TV will only recognize the HDMI signal from my iMac, not the signal from the PS3 or my Xfinity DVR. Even when I swap out the HDMI cables and mix up the inputs on my HDMI switcher, the TV will not display the video signals. I can tell the devices are registering the new video output as well since the PS3 and the DVR both display some kind of activity whenever I reconnect/activate the proper channel for that video signal. This is a bizarre head scratcher.
post #2962 of 12345
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobMueller10 View Post

+1 about the SOE on 3D

Although the 3D picture looks better with motion set to strong, there is no SOE associated with it.
Now 2D?? Thats a different story. wink.gif

oh that's weird so setting the motion smoother ON with 3D DOESN'T induce the SOE?!?! Glad to hear if that works to help 3D better.

So when you say 2D is a different story where you implying simply that one would not want motion smoother on for this or where you saying that you are not happy with the mtion performance of the set in 2D with the motion smoother OFF...???
post #2963 of 12345
Quote:
Originally Posted by wattheF View Post

oh that's weird so setting the motion smoother ON with 3D DOESN'T induce the SOE?!?! Glad to hear if that works to help 3D better.

So when you say 2D is a different story where you implying simply that one would not want motion smoother on for this or where you saying that you are not happy with the mtion performance of the set in 2D with the motion smoother OFF...???
Motion smoother on weak with 2d removes some judder without effecting the picture. Any higher you will start to see soe.

Just put in Avatar to test again. With motion smoother off or on weak looks bad. On mid it looks great as well as strong. This is a setting you might have to play with depending on what you are watching.

I think the darkness the 3d glasses give the picture is what makes it keep the cinema look while keeping everything smooth and free of crosstalk. You might catch something here or there that might look like the soe but most of the picture does not.
post #2964 of 12345
Ok, a couple of questions. I know I had a concern about the silver border on the 60" I saw at BB, but...! 1st, what is SOE?! And 2nd, since 3D is a no go for my wife and I, it makes us dizzy, how is regular Blu Ray on this set? We have Direct TV also.

Jeff
post #2965 of 12345
Quote:
Originally Posted by pronghorn/az View Post

Ok, a couple of questions. I know I had a concern about the silver border on the 60" I saw at BB, but...! 1st, what is SOE?! And 2nd, since 3D is a no go for my wife and I, it makes us dizzy, how is regular Blu Ray on this set? We have Direct TV also.

Jeff
Soap Opera Effect. Makes the picture look like it was recorded with a cell phone. Lol

Blu Ray and direct tv look stunning. It will be one of the best 2d pictures you will see.
post #2966 of 12345
Quote:
Originally Posted by pronghorn/az View Post

Ok, a couple of questions. I know I had a concern about the silver border on the 60" I saw at BB, but...! 1st, what is SOE?! And 2nd, since 3D is a no go for my wife and I, it makes us dizzy, how is regular Blu Ray on this set? We have Direct TV also.

Jeff

SOE = Soap Opera Effect, which is the pejorative term for a picture that is smooth and without judder. Your dizziness from watching 3D might be due to watching 3D in 24 and with judder (as seen in movie theaters). Using de-judder with 3D is a whole different ballgame and is much easier to watch, IMHO. Peter Jackson was a big proponent of this which is why he filmed The Hobbit in HFR(48p). Unfortunately, I cannot comment on Blu-ray quality on the ST60, but I suspect it is outstanding given the various reviews and people on this thread.
post #2967 of 12345
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

Motion smoother on weak with 2d removes some judder without effecting the picture. Any higher you will start to see soe.

Just put in Avatar to test again. With motion smoother off or on weak looks bad. On mid it looks great as well as strong. This is a setting you might have to play with depending on what you are watching.

I think the darkness the 3d glasses give the picture is what makes it keep the cinema look while keeping everything smooth and free of crosstalk. You might catch something here or there that might look like the soe but most of the picture does not.


Hmmm... It seems that people have differing opinions and also differing levels of sensitivity to motion interpolation.

i personally don't have an issue with a bit of judder. I much rather have some judder than deal with any SOE at all! Watching the film in its intended and natural state is important even in 3D! Crosstalk is a whole other issue but again i rather deal with occasional light crosstalk than any SOE.

It is too bad Panasonic had to go and change things for 3D from the 50 series models. 3D was great in 48hz. on my GT50 with very little crosstalk and great 24p playback (in 3D only)

I guess I am going to have to test it for myself to see what I think but I'm not sure how to do that short of just buying one. I guess i could always return it if i wasn't happy.
Edited by wattheF - 4/28/13 at 10:58am
post #2968 of 12345
Random question.

26 days ago I bought a 50st60 from BB. Their return policy seems to state 15 days.
$#!T I'm having a little buyers remorse, I feel like I shouldve gone with a 60". What are the chances BB will still let me exchange the 50 for the 60?? If it were me and I was BB I would want $500 more.
post #2969 of 12345
Quote:
Originally Posted by wattheF View Post


Hmmm... It seems that people have differing opinions and also differing levels of sensitivity to motion interpolation.

i personally don't have an issue with a bit of judder. I much rather have some judder than deal with any SOE at all! Watching the film in its intended and natural state is important even in 3D! Crosstalk is a whole other issue but again i rather deal with occasional light crosstalk than any SOE.

It is too bad Panasonic had to go and change things for 3D from the 50 series models. 3D was great in 48hz. on my GT50 with very little crosstalk and great 24p playback (in 3D only)

I guess I am going to have to test it for myself to see what I think but I'm not sure how to do that short of just buying one. I guess i could always return it if i wasn't happy.

Buy the tv. I can almost guarantee your happiness. smile.gif
post #2970 of 12345
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobMueller10 View Post

Buy the tv. I can almost guarantee your happiness. smile.gif

ok! I think i am gonna...ha
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