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Official Panasonic TC-PxxST60 Series thread - Page 14

post #391 of 12355
Can someone with an ST60 watch a full game of basketball, or any sport, and then pull up a white screen to see if there is any IR. If yes, how long does it take to disappear? Also, how's the line bleeding? On the GT50, when I watch boxing, I can see the ropes through the boxers' bodies. It's really annoying.




I have same problem with my St50.

I can see white lines from tennis court all over my screen.I think st50 have very,very,very bad Ir.
post #392 of 12355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolfan349 View Post

Just picked up the 50" ST60. Haven't had a plasma in nearly four years, but I'm already floored. Coming from a Samsung B750 LCD, this is already better in every single area I've seen (haven't tested gaming).

I really want to calibrate it, but I heard I have to wait 100+ hours? At the rate I watch TV, I won't be able to calibrate it for a few months... can I just calibrate now and re-calibrate in 200 hours? Or will I be at too great a risk of IR with the AVS HD 709 slides?

What some people do is they leave the TV on for 100 hours straight using either the slides, full screen\zoomed material, or a combination of content......Its totally up to you o how you want to handle the "break in" period......

Quote:
Originally Posted by dimitrios007 View Post

Could some one wit a st60 watch porn 24:7? For one week? I want to know how the whites are biggrin.gif

post #393 of 12355
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

That was not a real request btw

It makes me sad that these requests had to be explained....
post #394 of 12355
Quote:
Originally Posted by TV4Sooner View Post

TV replaced: Samsung PNB650 (one of the main boards is now defective, progression of horizontal lines forced me to replace, 14 lines appeared over one year's time) bought in Feb. 2010.
I'm having some major concerns with this TV's ability to handle HD cable content. I watched some basketball today and I'm getting some really bad artifacts at times. As much sports as I watch, this could be a deal breaker. I've tried some settings like Video NR, but it doesn't affect it from what I can tell.

I see what people mean by the ST having a soft picture. My 3 yr. old Samsung plasma has a slightly sharper picture with better HD processing. How can this be? The ST is a little sharp, and as others have stated, a more film-like quality? It's not necessarily a bad thing, just a DIFFERENT picture than my Samsung (which is more crisp).

Color depth, contrast, and blacks are superior to the Samsung. Seems brighter. Blu-rays look really nice! My Samsung was a superior build in some ways, especially the glass-topped stand that could swivel. The Panasonic stand is plastic throughout, but I suppose it is the trend with 'cheaper' units, less expensive and lighter nowadays. The other thing that's bothering me is that the bottom of the TV panel is 2 1/8" from the top of my TV stand on one side, and 1 7/8" on the other. That's 1/4" tilt from one side to the other. Ugh.

There are things I like about the TV, but I'm seriously worried about the artifacts around text, certain backgrounds, and movement. Pretty excessive at times. Somewhat less apparent with modes like Cinema, but Custom really brings it out (with more brightness?). I was watching Trading Places on Comedy Central and had to turn off the motion smoother. It made movement stutter like crazy.

Anyone have any suggestions or settings for the artifacts in HD cable I am experiencing? I'm not an expert, but have an appreciation and fine eye for PQ.

If things don't turn out better soon, I'm seriously considering taking this back and getting an E8000. I really don't want to, because I feel like my previous experience with Samsung reliability is not a good one, but if I get a picture similar (cable HD processing) to my old Samsung and with deeper blacks, I'll probably be happier. Don't know what to do......confused.gif

You may have a fine eye for problems, but you really need a better standard to judge from. Those artifacts are created by your content provider. Poor compression is rampant with digital cable, satellite, fiber, you name it. If it's removed, detail will be as well. Second, why are you using a a movie from 1984 to judge picture quality? Thirdly, who uses motion smoother? Ask any calibrator "what's the first thing you turn off" and I promise frame interpolation will be the answer.
post #395 of 12355
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

That was not a real request btw

I know his was a joke, but the earlier ones were not.
post #396 of 12355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post


Christ, I clearly commented on the joke one to make point of the serious ones. Such as everyone complaining about boxing and bowling.
post #397 of 12355
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

If you are going to do your own calibration, cost free, you will do no harm by doing so right away. If you are talking about paying to have your set calibrated, it is best to wait until after the new phosphors have been given a chance to settle down. They tend to be in a very agitated state for the first hundred hours or more, and a calibration done before they have settled down, would have to be done all over, after they have gone through the conditioning period.

I see, how big of a difference are we talking about once they've "settled down?"

Either way, yes, I'll be doing it 100% on my own with my Spyder4 Pro and HCFR.
post #398 of 12355
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggweeziehd View Post



Black!!!!

Is this a pic of the ST60?
post #399 of 12355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stump909 View Post

You may have a fine eye for problems, but you really need a better standard to judge from. Those artifacts are created by your content provider. Poor compression is rampant with digital cable, satellite, fiber, you name it. If it's removed, detail will be as well. Second, why are you using a a movie from 1984 to judge picture quality? Thirdly, who uses motion smoother? Ask any calibrator "what's the first thing you turn off" and I promise frame interpolation will be the answer.

+1
post #400 of 12355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolfan349 View Post

I see, how big of a difference are we talking about once they've "settled down?"

Either way, yes, I'll be doing it 100% on my own with my Spyder4 Pro and HCFR.

100-200 hours is usually the "norm" before someone does calibration.......
post #401 of 12355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stump909 View Post

Christ, I clearly commented on the joke one to make point of the serious ones. Such as everyone complaining about boxing and bowling.

Sometimes you cant tell wink.gif glad to see you were playing along biggrin.gif I dont think they were complaining more making a point..smile.gif
post #402 of 12355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

100-200 hours is usually the "norm" before someone does calibration.......

Right, and at about 2 hours a day, I won't be able to calibrate for 50-100 days? That seems excessive. How "inaccurate" is an "early" calibration, anyway?

I guess I could just figure it out myself, calibrate now and calibrate in a few months and compare the HCFR charts.
post #403 of 12355
Quote:
Originally Posted by netvlada View Post

Can someone with an ST60 watch a full game of basketball, or any sport, and then pull up a white screen to see if there is any IR. If yes, how long does it take to disappear? Also, how's the line bleeding? On the GT50, when I watch boxing, I can see the ropes through the boxers' bodies. It's really annoying.




I have same problem with my St50.

I can see white lines from tennis court all over my screen.I think st50 have very,very,very bad Ir.

There is definitely something wrong with your panels, I have a GT50 and have never seen what you are describing and I watch a lot of boxing and wrestling. I also only had minor IR from the menu the first 100hrs only for a couple of seconds because I played with the settings a lot. After that it has never been a problem whatsoever. I don't see the ST60 should be any different.
post #404 of 12355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolfan349 View Post

Right, and at about 2 hours a day, I won't be able to calibrate for 50-100 days? That seems excessive. How "inaccurate" is an "early" calibration, anyway?

I guess I could just figure it out myself, calibrate now and calibrate in a few months and compare the HCFR charts.

Many people leave thier sets on 24/7 running slides\zoomed\Full screen content to get thruogh the 100-200 hours more quickly.......
post #405 of 12355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Sometimes you cant tell wink.gif glad to see you were playing along biggrin.gif I dont think they were complaining more making a point..smile.gif

Fair enough, text based communication can be a bit complicated. I just got tired of seeing demands on earlier pages by people who clearly have no idea what they're talking about. I commented because I was relieved someone else noticed how stupid it was.
post #406 of 12355
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggweeziehd View Post



Black!!!!
Did you travel to the future and buy an OLED TV? wink.gif
post #407 of 12355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stump909 View Post

Fair enough, text based communication can be a bit complicated. I just got tired of seeing demands on earlier pages by people who clearly have no idea what they're talking about. I commented because I was relieved someone else noticed how stupid it was.

Thats why I try to use the emoticons or pictures to better get across if I am serious or not.......I do understand where you are coming from...I think sometimes people word thier requests poorly, instead of saying can someone watch something, its beter to ask IF someone has watched XYZ or has someone done XYZ and noticed any adverse effects....This while a US based forum has an international user base so English is not always the posters 1st language......
post #408 of 12355
I have roughly 7 days to decide if I want to return my 55ST50.

These are the things I would like to see with the ST60

1. No (or less) vertical streaks/bars
2. Better processing, picture quality with 1080i/720p satellite/cable content
3. Less buzzing
4. Sharper picture, more pop
5. Less IR

Hopefully more owners will provide info on this and pro reviews are released soon. smile.gif
post #409 of 12355
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSIG1001 View Post

Doesnt samcrap still use off brand capacitors? A well know issue with bulging capacitors eventually results in hardware failue . Id stay away from and korean based product . Make sure you get square trade or,sell it within 2 years

Not sure, but from what I've read it's definitely one of the main boards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by p3Orion View Post

Are you talking about the ST50 or ST60? I thought the ST60 did not have a soft (aka film like ) picture like the ST50. Please clarify. smile.gif

ST60. I shouldn't say the ST60 is 'soft'. It is pretty sharp, but I think the artifacts in HD cable content is giving me the impression of the set not being crisp all the time.

Commercials typically look good, so it is likely how the sporting event is shot / processed (?) Blu-rays look really good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucknuts07 View Post

My a guess would be a settings issue or source, or possible his tv is defective, from seeing the st60 at best buy, it was as sharp as all the led tvs around it, not as bright, but much more contrast, and a very rich picture

Hopefully not defective, but don't think that's the case. It is the source, but how the TV is processing that source is making a difference. I can DVR and play the same content (e.g. basketball game), and I see artifacts on both sets. But the Samsung isn't as bad; more clear, smooth, and crisp.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

I believe there as another user who said that it seemd to get better the more time the set had on it, oeverall Samsungs "tend" to do better with Cable\SD processing, but Panasonics are no slouches n this area either. I woulld go over the settings and connections just to make sure there is nothing in the chain causing something adverse on the set though. The decision comes down to what do you want from your TV? We at the forum can only go so far, youll be the one living with the TV long term wink.gif ......If it were me Id go check out the Samsung to see if it exhibits the same properties that you currently see. The E8000 would probably be closer to what you are used to, and have better blacks as well, of course it may not be as deep as the ST60 can get. If you think you can get used to this set then keep it an enjoy it. Sometimes there is a period of time when moving to a new set that the user has to become accustom to the picture, you may be in this period now. I do wish you luck in which ever set you shoose smile.gif

Yeah, it is a DIFFERENT picture. Like I said before, doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad thing, but different it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

TV4Sooner - "TV replaced: Samsung PNB650 (one of the main boards is now defective, progression of horizontal lines forced me to replace, 14 lines appeared over one year's time) bought in Feb. 2010.
I'm having some major concerns with this TV's ability to handle HD cable content. I watched some basketball today and I'm getting some really bad artifacts at times. As much sports as I watch, this could be a deal breaker. I've tried some settings like Video NR, but it doesn't affect it from what I can tell"

I see artifacts on my VT50 and saw them on my Kuros. The problem, I think, is that the cameras used at sporting events are not all the same -- they are all over the map. Some MM games look like crap and then when we go to a new venue they look acceptable. Also, the signal as delivered by Time Warner, DTV and Dish can be lacking more often than not imo.

I agree. Depends on many factors. Some sporting events look better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wattheF View Post

The issue is the amount of compression used by the cable company. Pop in a good bluray and you will notice it is flawless.

It will be there no matter what TV you use, however some sets video processing will do a better job than others minimizing the noticeable amount of artifacts that can be caused by the compression.

Blu-ray does look great on this set.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stump909 View Post

You may have a fine eye for problems, but you really need a better standard to judge from. Those artifacts are created by your content provider. Poor compression is rampant with digital cable, satellite, fiber, you name it. If it's removed, detail will be as well. Second, why are you using a a movie from 1984 to judge picture quality? Thirdly, who uses motion smoother? Ask any calibrator "what's the first thing you turn off" and I promise frame interpolation will be the answer.

True about the artifacts, just seems more pronounced than on my Samsung.

Trading Places was something I was watching for a few minutes and noticed the stuttering. Once I turned off the motion smoother, the stuttering went away. Definitely would not want to judge PQ from an old movie.
Edited by TV4Sooner - 3/30/13 at 12:05pm
post #410 of 12355
Indeed I am sure it is "different" and that difference is one youll ahve to decide if you can live with and get used to or something you dont want to live with.......This is where is comes down to personal preferencce and everyone will be different.....
post #411 of 12355
I've noticed that the image does not fully fill the screen -- there is a small border of a few lines of pixels around the entire image, even when picture mode is set to "full." Zoomed images do not change this.

Is this normal? My old LCD filled the screen 100%.
post #412 of 12355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolfan349 View Post

I've noticed that the image does not fully fill the screen -- there is a small border of a few lines of pixels around the entire image, even when picture mode is set to "full." Zoomed images do not change this.

Is this normal? My old LCD filled the screen 100%.

Whats your source? and how close are you looking?
post #413 of 12355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolfan349 View Post

I've noticed that the image does not fully fill the screen -- there is a small border of a few lines of pixels around the entire image, even when picture mode is set to "full." Zoomed images do not change this.

Is this normal? My old LCD filled the screen 100%.

If it's like the ST50 then there is a thin, black border around the screen that's about 1/4 inch wide. That's normal.
post #414 of 12355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolfan349 View Post

Just picked up the 50" ST60. Haven't had a plasma in nearly four years, but I'm already floored. Coming from a Samsung B750 LCD, this is already better in every single area I've seen (haven't tested gaming).

I really want to calibrate it, but I heard I have to wait 100+ hours? At the rate I watch TV, I won't be able to calibrate it for a few months... can I just calibrate now and re-calibrate in 200 hours? Or will I be at too great a risk of IR with the AVS HD 709 slides?
Just put a Blu-ray or DVD movie on repeat when you go to bed at night. Be sure it's one with an aspect ratio of 1.78:1 (16x9) so that it's image fills the screen. Leave it running until you want to watch something else. The repeat for a few hundred hours. eek.gif

There are only a couple of reasons to wait a while before you calibrate your display. One is that the phosphors used in plasma flat panel displays change most rapidly when the set is new. Another reason to wait is that if you're paying a professional, his work will last longer if the set has some age on it's phosphors.

If you're using a disk like the AVS HD 709 disk to adjust settings, then the only reason to wait would be that you'll have fixed images on your screen at a time when it's easiest to get IR. It really depends on how you use a calibration disk to adjust the settings. One guy used his "Menu" screen so much when his set was new that the word "Menu" lingered longer than he liked. Once your set has some age on it, you can adjust settings as often as you like.
post #415 of 12355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Whats your source? and how close are you looking?

HDMI set top box, only noticed it when I was point-blank to the screen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by p3Orion View Post

If it's like the ST50 then there is a thin, black border around the screen that's about 1/4 inch wide. That's normal.

Yeah, that's what I'm seeing, about a 1/4" border around the screen.
post #416 of 12355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolfan349 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

100-200 hours is usually the "norm" before someone does calibration.......

Right, and at about 2 hours a day, I won't be able to calibrate for 50-100 days? That seems excessive. How "inaccurate" is an "early" calibration, anyway?

I guess I could just figure it out myself, calibrate now and calibrate in a few months and compare the HCFR charts.
You really don't have to be in front of your TV to age it's phosphors. wink.gif
post #417 of 12355
Quote:
Originally Posted by p3Orion View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolfan349 View Post

I've noticed that the image does not fully fill the screen -- there is a small border of a few lines of pixels around the entire image, even when picture mode is set to "full." Zoomed images do not change this.

Is this normal? My old LCD filled the screen 100%.

If it's like the ST50 then there is a thin, black border around the screen that's about 1/4 inch wide. That's normal.
There are no pixels in that area. It's just a boarder. Forget your old LCD. wink.gif
post #418 of 12355
I just got back from my local "Video Only" store. Not only did they have the 50" ST60, but they ALSO had the 55" model! They just got it yesterday. The 55" definitely had a better (aesthetic) look than the 50", IMO. With the larger screen, the bezel looked slimmer and the chrome edging looked a little classier. Picture quality on both the 50" and 55" seemed great. I was not completely blown away... but mainly because they had both TVs in "vivid" torch mode, possibly to combat the fact that the TV was facing the front windows of the store, and the sun is actually shining bright here in WA today. Had him look up the availability of the 60" and the 65" as well. 60" looks to be shipping next (they already had "sale" pricing in their system), and the 65" will be shipping last (no info other than MSRP). I am DEFINITELY holding out for the 60", now for sure. I think aesthetically the bigger the screen, the better this series is going to look. As far as "PQ" goes, I'm sure all sizes will be equally great (I'm really looking forward to Chad's review today!).
Looks like they have some room to move on the pricing of these TVs too. I haggled a little bit, and got offered as low of a price to "pre-order" the 60" as I've seen online. I am still COMPLETELY blown away at the price difference between the 60" and the 65" though. 50%+ price increase between the two. As much as I'd love to have the biggest TV in the series, I can't justify that much of an increase. 25%-30% more?... definitely. 53% more?.... Um, no.
Edited by AdamHD - 3/30/13 at 1:20pm
post #419 of 12355
Well, even if I wanted to calibrate this, it's WAY more complex than my old set. The fact that the W/B settings have a low-level adjust for high range and low range, AND 10-point IRE settings means I could spend hours dialing it in. Same for gamma, there appears to be an overall gamma preset for various values (2.2, 2.4, 2.6, etc.) as well as individual gamma gain adjusts for each IRE setting.

Same goes for the RGB settings -- each source can be 16-235 or 0-255, but there's also a "black level" of light or dark which appears to affect this. On my old set, I had one setting (HDMI black level) of either 16-235 or 0-255 and then set my device accordingly. Now, I'm not sure whether to set the PS3 to limited or full, the set to 16-235 or 0-255, or the black level to light or dark.

I tried to do a baseline run with HCFR, and I'm clearly doing something wrong as it was reading a gamma of 1.0 with a contrast ratio of 33000:1.
post #420 of 12355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolfan349 View Post

Well, even if I wanted to calibrate this, it's WAY more complex than my old set. The fact that the W/B settings have a low-level adjust for high range and low range, AND 10-point IRE settings means I could spend hours dialing it in. Same for gamma, there appears to be an overall gamma preset for various values (2.2, 2.4, 2.6, etc.) as well as individual gamma gain adjusts for each IRE setting.

Same goes for the RGB settings -- each source can be 16-235 or 0-255, but there's also a "black level" of light or dark which appears to affect this. On my old set, I had one setting (HDMI black level) of either 16-235 or 0-255 and then set my device accordingly. Now, I'm not sure whether to set the PS3 to limited or full, the set to 16-235 or 0-255, or the black level to light or dark.

I tried to do a baseline run with HCFR, and I'm clearly doing something wrong as it was reading a gamma of 1.0 with a contrast ratio of 33000:1.

Limited, 16-235, and light black level. smile.gif
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