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Official Panasonic TC-PxxST60 Series thread - Page 147

post #4381 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregLee View Post

I've had several Samsung plasma TVs and now have a Panasonic st60. The Panasonic is accurate, while the Samsungs were sharp. When there is really fuzz in the picture, the Panasonic shows you that fuzz, which is what you want it to do, if you like high fidelity reproduction. But the Samsung will process some of that fuzz away, which is what you want it to do, if you're more interested in a nice sharp picture than you care about accuracy.

The Panasonic is perfectly capable of showing a very sharp and detailed picture when the source is very sharp and detailed. But it won't fix things up for you starting with a second class picture the way a Samsung will.

Those are some interesting observations. Are the Samsung BD players also known for doing some extra processing? I posted this just a couple of days ago concerning a new Samsung BD player vs a new Sony BD player and my PC, the latter two giving essentially identical output, while the Samsung was in comparison definitely looking processed:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1463952/anyone-have-feedback-on-the-samsung-bd-f5900#post_23307704
post #4382 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by sawfish View Post

Are the Samsung BD players also known for doing some extra processing?
Dunno. I've only had Sony BD players.
post #4383 of 12326
How does the ST60 do with SD material? Some of my favorite shows are only available in SD and they look okay on a 24 inch LCD but may not be so good on 50st60... Stretching to fill the screen would make things even worse? Do I need to give up my SD shows if I get a plasma?
post #4384 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregLee View Post

I agree with the first part of this, but I don't think it is just a matter of preference. I've had several Samsung plasma TVs and now have a Panasonic st60. The Panasonic is accurate, while the Samsungs were sharp. When there is really fuzz in the picture, the Panasonic shows you that fuzz, which is what you want it to do, if you like high fidelity reproduction. But the Samsung will process some of that fuzz away, which is what you want it to do, if you're more interested in a nice sharp picture than you care about accuracy.

The Panasonic is perfectly capable of showing a very sharp and detailed picture when the source is very sharp and detailed. But it won't fix things up for you starting with a second class picture the way a Samsung will.
I actually found while my Samsung pn60e7000 had a sharp picture it had more of a cinema look to it while I feel the ST60 produces more of a digital image.

Anyway, my ST60 went bye bye today. It was a struggle deciding what to do and which TV to keep. I plugged in my ST60 in yesterday to remove my accounts and seeing the Fox Sports logo still there just annoyed me again! Anyway, I did love the pq when that baby powered up again!

I will still definitley recommend the ST60 to people though. How can you not.
post #4385 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregLee View Post

I agree with the first part of this, but I don't think it is just a matter of preference. I've had several Samsung plasma TVs and now have a Panasonic st60. The Panasonic is accurate, while the Samsungs were sharp. When there is really fuzz in the picture, the Panasonic shows you that fuzz, which is what you want it to do, if you like high fidelity reproduction. But the Samsung will process some of that fuzz away, which is what you want it to do, if you're more interested in a nice sharp picture than you care about accuracy.

The Panasonic is perfectly capable of showing a very sharp and detailed picture when the source is very sharp and detailed. But it won't fix things up for you starting with a second class picture the way a Samsung will.

I agree with this 100%, as I have seen it firsthand. I never knew how bad my cable feed was until I bought my 60" ST60. My Samsung 50" C8000 had an excellent picture even with my cable signal. When we used to watch TV, me and my wife always used to say "damn our TV picture looks good"... Now, we both say it a lot less. Blu-ray, (on the other hand) looks excellent on the ST60. So, I don't know if it was the increase in size showing off more flaws in the cable feed, or that the Panasonic just does not have the processing power to "polish" the bad cable feed... but I really think it's a combo of both. Kills me to hear everyone say how amazing Game of Thrones looks on their new ST60. When we watch GOT on Sunday night, I am now very let down. Oh well, there is always the blu-ray release right? lol.
post #4386 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

I actually found while my Samsung pn60e7000 had a sharp picture it had more of a cinema look to it while I feel the ST60 produces more of a digital image.

Anyway, my ST60 went bye bye today. It was a struggle deciding what to do and which TV to keep. I plugged in my ST60 in yesterday to remove my accounts and seeing the Fox Sports logo still there just annoyed me again! Anyway, I did love the pq when that baby powered up again!

I will still definitley recommend the ST60 to people though. How can you not.

You had a bad set, ir like that is not normal. Hope you enjoy the Sammy though.
post #4387 of 12326
Well...TV is finally bought. But surprisingly it's not an ST60...found a deal on a 65VT50 that I simply could not pass up. So I traded minor input lag issues and a slightly darker ml and 3D glasses for an extra 5" of screen, great color, THX modes, solid lag time, but no 3D glasses and just a hair brighter. And open box, so some hours on it already. But overall, I'm pretty pleased and I think (assuming I don't find a flaw and return it!) this was probably the best outcome for me.

Would have been a 60ST60 otherwise of course! Off to the VT50 owners threads I suppose.
post #4388 of 12326
Yeah I'm bringing my cable provider in this week specifically because my 65ST60 is revealing so many problems with my cable quality.
Hopefully they can replace the unit I have with it's many splitters and questionable old coax cables.
More of a "cinema" image? What on earth does that even mean.

I should note I finally started seeing a bit of IR on my set. Same experience as weezy, none at all the first 60 hours for me. Just a tiny bit popped up after "No Signal detected" message box floated around the screen for a few minutes. Went away after a few seconds though. I've been looking for IR too.
post #4389 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucknuts07 View Post

You had a bad set, ir like that is not normal. Hope you enjoy the Sammy though.
I don't doubt it. BB was out of stock on the ST60 so needed to either wait for a replacement or was offered some good deals on some other TV's. I needed to settle on something already as I was tiring myself out hunting for a TV. My first choice would have been a Samsung 2012 plasma 64e7000 or 64e8000 but they had absolutley no stock in that.

I do like the es7500 though. it is a good all around package TV with a nice picture. Luckily my TV has really good screen unformity which is usually one of the drawbacks with an LED.

I think this thread will make me miss my ST60. It was something that kind of came with the TV. lol
post #4390 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omni009 View Post

Well...TV is finally bought. But surprisingly it's not an ST60...found a deal on a 65VT50 that I simply could not pass up. So I traded minor input lag issues and a slightly darker ml and 3D glasses for an extra 5" of screen, great color, THX modes, solid lag time, but no 3D glasses and just a hair brighter. And open box, so some hours on it already. But overall, I'm pretty pleased and I think (assuming I don't find a flaw and return it!) this was probably the best outcome for me.

Would have been a 60ST60 otherwise of course! Off to the VT50 owners threads I suppose.
I would have went 65VT50 for size if the price was the same.
post #4391 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omni009 View Post

Well...TV is finally bought. But surprisingly it's not an ST60...found a deal on a 65VT50 that I simply could not pass up. So I traded minor input lag issues and a slightly darker ml and 3D glasses for an extra 5" of screen, great color, THX modes, solid lag time, but no 3D glasses and just a hair brighter. And open box, so some hours on it already. But overall, I'm pretty pleased and I think (assuming I don't find a flaw and return it!) this was probably the best outcome for me.

Would have been a 60ST60 otherwise of course! Off to the VT50 owners threads I suppose.

Don't blame you. I would have jumped on it too, if it was the right price.
post #4392 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by systemlayers View Post

More of a "cinema" image? What on earth does that even mean.

I feel like the ST60 matched my picture quality of an LED more then the e7000. Guess the ST60 looked more digital to me if that makes sense.
post #4393 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadett View Post

Don't blame you. I would have jumped on it too, if it was the right price.

I'll post the exact price in the deal forum...(and of course the damn CA tax eats into it a lot.) But without naming prices...say you were looking at a 60ST60 for the current going price at Best Buys and such...now imagine someone says..."You know, for only a hundred dollars more..." eek.gif

Of course I'll stick around to share my input lag thoughts and how it felt to me and such for those still on the fence about the ST60
post #4394 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryElbow View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Leave it off now too. Do you mean OPPO 83, which is the first OPPO Blu-ray player that I owned? There is no known benefit since there is no source material available. You can also avoid running into some strange bandwidth related handshake problems that aren't likely but are possible.
Maybe 4K discs when they come out, eh?
Probably not. Check out the Joe Kane interview on the AVS home page. It's an hour long, but it's a good introduction to the joy/pain that's on the way here with 4K. You may have to scroll down a bit because it was posted last week.
Quote:
I have no interest in 3D so I don't need to upgrade to a 3D-capable player or an A/V receiver that can pass through HDMI 1.4.
A lot of us feel the same way. smile.gif
post #4395 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by RodK View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

eek.gif

The runt of litter gets the boot. It's tough out there. frown.gif

but it still speaks volumes that a professional calibrator is willing to buy this model.
With D-Nice's history with Pioneer, it sure does.
post #4396 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Akin View Post

What it tells me is, there must not be any major faults with the ST. Just guessing here, Chad B choosing the GT50 knowing it was not as sharp might mean he prefers a somewhat softer picture, as I do. Liked everything about the F8500 except it looked more edgier than the pannys, which to me gives a more "video" look, but that's just the way I see it, others don't.
Lol, it does not mean that at all. What it means is he liked the readings he got on his calibration equipment.
What it actually means is that you don't completely understand calibration or calibrators. All the good calibrators, that I know about, base their final evaluation of a calibration on what they see in normal source material that they are already very familiar with. In the final step of a calibration they depend on their judgment of "real" source material and if needed, make changes based on that judgment.

For the purposes of the shootout, they discussed measurable factors at great length. That doesn't tell you anything about how any one of them would select a display to purchase, or what they would do for their customers.
Edited by htwaits - 5/14/13 at 3:51pm
post #4397 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Wow! I have heard about the soft picture but not worse than 5 and 6 year old tvs. I dont understand that. I have a 60ST50 that is calibrated and it looks great. Some cable channels look a little soft. Mostly the 720p ones. But everything else looks excellent.
Keep in mind that none of the complaints seem to be coming from owner's who had Chad B or D-Nice calibrate their displays. Also, Chad B and D-Nice probably made the bulk of their comments based on the results after calibration. wink.gif
post #4398 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony1 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Sorry, but you just lost some major credibility points with me.

Why would you say that? Trust me when I tell you,, that I have 20/20 vision and everyone that knows me does consider me to be a perceptive person.. My cousin bought his plasma in around 2009,
and i know it wasn't even the top model for that year.. just to be clear,, the only channels i have compared with both sets are the news channels,, fox news, cnn, and maybe
tbs etc..
and his plasma is MUCH sharper than my gt50 and my vt50, there is NO doubt about it. Randy,bigwheez, eric, dan all seem to agree with me.. Do you really think I take pleasure in basically stating that I have a crappy plasma? biggrin.gif
Someone as perceptive as you should find better source material to do your evaluations on. What you're saying is that your TV showed you that you were watching sources with crappy PQ, and your friends older TV was making it appear to look better. I agree with 007. wink.gif

EDIT: Bond changed his mind. wink.gif
Edited by htwaits - 5/14/13 at 3:53pm
post #4399 of 12326
Are there any pics of the rear of the ST60 anywhere? Google search only brought up a side view of the inputs. I'm wanting to see how the mounting holes look. I'm thinking about this TV stand/mount http://www.wayfair.com/Transdeco-International-35-65-Flat-Panel-TV-Stand-TD600B-TD600ES-TDI1059.html and just want to make sure it would work.

Not the prettiest stand, but seems like the only one that would work for my center speaker. I want it ear level and don't want to put it in a stand shelf for a number of reasons. There are a bunch of stands without integrated mounts that I like, but then I would have to build a shelf/TV riser tall enough to put over my center speaker and then place the TV on that... which is plan B. I'd love to just put the center speaker on top of a TV stand and then mount the TV to the wall, but there is no wall to mount the TV to in my apt setup... the back of the TV is an open area where the stairs are that lead down to the front door, if you can picture that.
post #4400 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

I would have went 65VT50 for size if the price was the same.
I am surprised anyone still has any..........
post #4401 of 12326
Regarding 2012 Panasonic softness. Its garbage in garbage out people. My last UT50 was sharp with bluray source but soft and fuzzy with lower quality source like my local abc channel. The ST60 is an improvement but if you feed it garbage don't expect a sharp image, and why would you want to anyway?

A lot of cable companies and especially dish providers send nothing but junk. So such complaints have no merit without actually identifying sources. I am very picky about my content and I never had an issue with softness in my old UT50.
post #4402 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by IDRick View Post

How does the ST60 do with SD material? Some of my favorite shows are only available in SD and they look okay on a 24 inch LCD but may not be so good on 50st60... Stretching to fill the screen would make things even worse? Do I need to give up my SD shows if I get a plasma?

What SD material are we talking about? I watch almost exclusively DVDs, retail and recorded from an HD satellite, only a small percentage of them look bad on a 50" at 12'. If you're talking VHS, good luck watching that on one of these sets. I don't stream or have cable so I don't know about either of thiose.
post #4403 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

I am surprised anyone still has any..........
I agree, I tried to get one while swapping out my ST60 and the store checked all over their regional area and warehouse and could not find one. Guess he got lucky and walked in right after someone returned it.
post #4404 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by openwheelracing View Post

Regarding 2012 Panasonic softness. Its garbage in garbage out people. My last UT50 was sharp with bluray source but soft and fuzzy with lower quality source like my local abc channel. The ST60 is an improvement but if you feed it garbage don't expect a sharp image, and why would you want to anyway?

A lot of cable companies and especially dish providers send nothing but junk. So such complaints have no merit without actually identifying sources. I am very picky about my content and I never had an issue with softness in my old UT50.

Who has time to be picky with content? Garbage in... Seems to be a phrase coined for panasonic. I had a million TVs since the inception of HD cable and in my living room sets the same set top box. So what's wrong with expecting your expensive new set to look as good as your cheap old one?
post #4405 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggweeziehd View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by openwheelracing View Post

Regarding 2012 Panasonic softness. Its garbage in garbage out people. My last UT50 was sharp with bluray source but soft and fuzzy with lower quality source like my local abc channel. The ST60 is an improvement but if you feed it garbage don't expect a sharp image, and why would you want to anyway?

A lot of cable companies and especially dish providers send nothing but junk. So such complaints have no merit without actually identifying sources. I am very picky about my content and I never had an issue with softness in my old UT50.

Who has time to be picky with content? Garbage in... Seems to be a phrase coined for panasonic. I had a million TVs since the inception of HD cable and in my living room sets the same set top box. So what's wrong with expecting your expensive new set to look as good as your cheap old one?
An amazing argument. wink.gif
post #4406 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

An amazing argument. wink.gif

Yeah and that was literal my st60 is #1,000,001 smart guy
post #4407 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by IDRick View Post

How does the ST60 do with SD material? Some of my favorite shows are only available in SD and they look okay on a 24 inch LCD but may not be so good on 50st60... Stretching to fill the screen would make things even worse? Do I need to give up my SD shows if I get a plasma?
No one should buy a big screen, and any screen would be big for you, HDTV if their main interest was watching SDTV. There is no way that can be worth the money that it will cost.

No matter what you buy, your SDTV is going to look worse unless it's a 24" LCD. Are you using a computer monitor for TV? What resolution is your TV? How far away do you sit? What else do you watch or want to watch that would make a new HDTV good for you?
post #4408 of 12326
Hey it's possible. He could have owned Sharp biggrin.gif
post #4409 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggweeziehd View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

An amazing argument. wink.gif

Yeah and that was literal my st60 is #1,000,001 smart guy
smile.gif
post #4410 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

Hey it's possible. He could have owned Sharp biggrin.gif
I shouldn't have teased him, but if he was more open to the information that people have offered, I probably wouldn't have been so hard on his claim. wink.gif

Emoticons can be important when posting. biggrin.gif
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