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Official Panasonic TC-PxxST60 Series thread - Page 20

post #571 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

D-Nice,

In your opinion at this point, is the ZT60 going to do much better than the .0017 on the F8500? My guess is they will be very close.
What do you mean by "much better"? I expect the ZT60 to measure slightly below the F8500 ... basically in the 0.001xfL range.
post #572 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmarceau View Post

Probably the least of my concerns smile.gif

.0014 ft/L mll, awesome
You mean 0.0015fL, right?
post #573 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by moshock View Post

what exactly does game mode do? i thought it was just marketing hype... does anyone actually use it?

It's for games. tongue.gif

As to what it does differently, I don't know, but it's the only mode with improved latency.

You would have to use it if you wanted the benefit of low latency, but some don't want to sacrifice PQ.
post #574 of 12326
I've had my ST60 for about two weeks now and I have a few questions.

Does anyone have any good calibration settings for it yet?

Is there really as bad of input lag as some make it out to have? I will be using this to do a lot of gaming and I really don't want to have a poor experience. Can I use Game Mode and alleviate it?
post #575 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmarceau View Post

Probably the least of my concerns smile.gif

.0014 ft/L mll, awesome

That's the mll from last year EU and Latin American 65VT50...I can't imagine VT60/ZT60 mll will be...but i would said 0.0007 fL for EU 60 ZT60.
I hope the ZT came to my country...

Awesome number for a 42 inches.
post #576 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atty View Post

I've had my ST60 for about two weeks now and I have a few questions.

Does anyone have any good calibration settings for it yet?

Is there really as bad of input lag as some make it out to have? I will be using this to do a lot of gaming and I really don't want to have a poor experience. Can I use Game Mode and alleviate it?

The input lag may be slightly worse than last years models, but we don't know for a fact.

You should be using game mode, unless you don't detect the difference.
post #577 of 12326
All I've noticed Game mode do is turn off stuff like motion smoothing and odds and ends like that. Nothing really serious. I guess it's there in case you forget to turn off a feature or two, which there really isn't many. You still get all the pro calibration stuff if you're in cinema or custom picture mode, even with game enabled.

Anyway, I just recently purchased a UT50, for some reason those models were exhibiting bowing at the top of the screens, and I couldn't stand seeing it. Was going to trade it for a ST50, but the only model they had in stock had a chip on the screen, so I got a ST60. Didn't really want to spend the extra $400, but whatever, I'll deal and have a decent TV.
post #578 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

All I've noticed Game mode do is turn off stuff like motion smoothing and odds and ends like that. Nothing really serious. I guess it's there in case you forget to turn off a feature or two, which there really isn't many. You still get all the pro calibration stuff if you're in cinema or custom picture mode, even with game enabled.

Wait are you saying game mode is an option now, and no longer a mode such as cinema, custom, etc.?

On the 50 series models, game mode was around 20ms less input lag, so somewhat significant.
post #579 of 12326
I think I missed something...where does .0014 fl come from? The ST60 hasn't been measured at that, has it?
post #580 of 12326
*double post*
post #581 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSpectre88 View Post

Wait are you saying game mode is an option now, and no longer a mode such as cinema, custom, etc.?

On the 50 series models, game mode was around 20ms less input lag, so somewhat significant.

Yes, it's an option in Advanced Picture settings. You no longer have an exclusive game mode, but enabling it in either Cinema or Custom gives you the same blanking before the image pops on, so it's definitely turning some stuff off. I don't even know why Vivid, Standard, and Home Theater are included, you don't get the Pro calibration options in those modes, so they're rendered essentially worthless, not that they should be used anyway.

I also want to note in this thread, that my ST60 seems to have some extra sharpening processing going on via HDMI 1. Anyone else notice this? You can see edge halos around everything, even the blurriest picture mode with Sharpness set to 0. Every other input looks pretty impressive.

BTW, the set comes with 2 pairs of 3D glasses. They're shaped more like the 2012 Panny glasses, but they're battery powered just like the $20 Samsung. Very nice, now I have 3 sets of glasses for friends to use and eventually I'll get a rechargeable set.
post #582 of 12326
So I'm guessing the lack of replies to calibration settings points to none being available yet? frown.gif

I used the THX app for my iPad to calibrate it a bit, I know its not perfect though. Hair and low light objects seem to look very cartoony (like, animated maybe? Lacking detail quality) in some scenes. Not sure which setting will fix that.
post #583 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omni009 View Post

I think I missed something...where does .0014 fl come from? The ST60 hasn't been measured at that, has it?


From here: http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/panasonic-tx-p42st60-201303312779.htm

0.005 cd/m^2 = 0.0015 ftL

Larry
post #584 of 12326
Thanks Larry. So only on the Euro set huh? I'm still hoping a different meter or new measurement on a fully broken in 60 inch version of the US version of this panel will yeld a lower number still than the only currently measured one.
post #585 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omni009 View Post

Thanks Larry. So only on the Euro set huh? I'm still hoping a different meter or new measurement on a fully broken in 60 inch version of the US version of this panel will yeld a lower number still than the only currently measured one.


I think that you are in for a disappointment. Chad B measured 0.00232 ftL on a 50ST60, A 60 inch probably will have a lower value but there are not enough data out yet to pin it down.

Larry
post #586 of 12326
T
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omni009 View Post

Thanks Larry. So only on the Euro set huh? I'm still hoping a different meter or new measurement on a fully broken in 60 inch version of the US version of this panel will yeld a lower number still than the only currently measured one.[/quote

The potential exists but it looks Ike the Klein meter used is the most accurate for measuring mll. What excites many potential ST60 owners is that the black level is probably lower than the flagship Samsung model F8500. While the F8500 sounds like it can get brighter than any of the new Panasonics the ST can still be calibrated above 50 ftl for daytime use which is plenty bright for most situations. In doing some price checking I see that the Samsung 60f8500 goes for around $2999 while you shouldn't have a problem getting the 60ST60 for around $1500 which makes the ST60 quite the compelling purchase.

Edited by pwiss - 3/31/13 at 9:07pm
post #587 of 12326
Well, I let the set run for about 20 hours and decided to do a dirty calibration. I am pretty impressed by the grayscale controls on this set, less so by the CMS (at least relative to my old Samsung set). HCFR seemed unable to give me a consistent contrast ratio; most of the time it came back with no reading. Sometimes it would come back around 33000:1. Average gamma 2.22. Calibrated to 30 ftL, low panel brightness, very adequate for my modestly lit room.

50ST60 early RGB Delta-E.png 10k .png file
50ST60 early gamma.png 8k .png file
50ST60 early color temp.png 8k .png file
Edited by Dolfan349 - 3/31/13 at 10:16pm
post #588 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by agkss View Post

That's the mll from last year EU and Latin American 65VT50...I can't imagine VT60/ZT60 mll will be...but i would said 0.0007 fL for EU 60 ZT60.
That should be reached with the 65ST60 already - out of the box of course, since the European Panasonics last year reached an even better MLL after 600 hours of use, so this year's models could be the same in this regard.

So, I would guess, the ZT60 should do a 0.0002 fL.
post #589 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by sawfish View Post

Amazon is finally showing the 55" as available now, with the 50" shipping in 1-2 months. Their stated prices are crazy high at the moment. I want the 50". Best Buy has free delivery again this week, so if Amazon doesn't get it's act together, I may just go ahead and get it from Best Buy.

Interesting that Amazon also have the P65ST60 in stock but not the 50".
post #590 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

I also want to note in this thread, that my ST60 seems to have some extra sharpening processing going on via HDMI 1. Anyone else notice this? You can see edge halos around everything, even the blurriest picture mode with Sharpness set to 0. Every other input looks pretty impressive.

Try disabling 1080p Pixel Direct, or with it enabled, set the HDMI content type to Photo.
If the North American models behave like the UK models, then David Mackenzie discovered this in his review.
post #591 of 12326
monitors are to small
post #592 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turrican4D View Post

That should be reached with the 65ST60 already - out of the box of course, since the European Panasonics last year reached an even better MLL after 600 hours of use, so this year's models could be the same in this regard.

So, I would guess, the ZT60 should do a 0.0002 fL.
I think some of the batcavemen (I count myself as one) are setting themselves up for significant disappointment based on these predictions. The Panasonic insider himself has already done a comparison with his own Kuro and hasn't really noticed a difference beyond the ZT60 being just a hair brighter (or equivalent, he wouldn't commit to either impression since he perceived them to be so close).
post #593 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

I think that you are in for a disappointment. Chad B measured 0.00232 ftL on a 50ST60, A 60 inch probably will have a lower value but there are not enough data out yet to pin it down.

Larry

I see some other folks mention that Chad B seems to get slightly higher readings that others do in his set reviews. Also saw someone mention in this thread that with Panasonics, the larger sets seem to measure lower blacks than the smaller ones...he mentioned .0015 as a low possibility I believe. Also since the ST50 measured lower after it's break in time, and this set wasn't fully broken in yet, I took all that into account and was hoping for a lower number still (as in lower than the .00232). I am happy with a slightly lower black than even the ST50, which I might have bought had they not been sold out before I had the money. If the 60 inch I'm eyeballing can hit anything like .0015, I'll be thrilled and pretty much declare my TV search over.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwiss View Post

The potential exists but it looks Ike the Klein meter used is the most accurate for measuring mll. What excites many potential ST60 owners is that the black level is probably lower than the flagship Samsung model F8500. While the F8500 sounds like it can get brighter than any of the new Panasonics the ST can still be calibrated above 50 ftl for daytime use which is plenty bright for most situations. In doing some price checking I see that the Samsung 60f8500 goes for around $2999 while you shouldn't have a problem getting the 60ST60 for around $1500 which makes the ST60 quite the compelling purchase.

I saw the F8500 in person, next to a 65VT50 no less (commented on the F8500 thread). Prices being the same, I really liked the F8500 and would possibly have bought it instead of an ST60. At 3 grand for a 60 inch however...well if I had 3000 I'd just try and grab a 60ZT60! I think those sets will surprise many folks when they come out.
post #594 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by skoor View Post

I assume you mean black levels. But even Panasonic only really says beyond "the reference" without any firm context just what might that reference might be- model or much less a defined category or performance. Marketing folks just love it when you fill in the blanks for them.

The marketing for the VT50 was 'The Reference'.
post #595 of 12326
This is the sand castle time of the year. This thread, and a couple of others, are the sand boxes. biggrin.gif
post #596 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

You mean 0.0015fL, right?

Thanks for the correction.

So you're thinking, like last year, the ST, VT, and ZT will essentially have similar mll?

Based on previous years, is it safe to assume that the 60"+ panels will get even blacker or has that been evened out with the smaller panels?
post #597 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSpectre88 View Post

If it was only 47ms it wouldn't really be a problem, the only tests we have so far are indicating higher.
What we don't know is if that figure is accurate . For example, my gt25, has super low input lag, think it was measured around 16ms, however , when you set it to default game mode, it would leave on the motion blur setting, and noise reduction setting. These 2 settings on , greatly increase the input lag, and it feels very noticable. Maybe when game mode was tested , some of these features are defaulted to be on. I think I brought this 47ms figure up way back in the thread, and was hoping that someone that had picked up the set, was a gamer, and could throw in black ops 2, to give us there impressions. Just a note, if you play black ops 2, and play hardcore mode, there are absolutely no logos on the screen during matches, no ammo counter, no mini map, so this would be an awesome break in tool as well. Hopefully someone that has picked this set up, can try it out, it's all I'm waiting on, before I decide to pull the trigger.
post #598 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucknuts07 View Post

What we don't know is if that figure is accurate . For example, my gt25, has super low input lag, think it was measured around 16ms, however , when you set it to default game mode, it would leave on the motion blur setting, and noise reduction setting. These 2 settings on , greatly increase the input lag, and it feels very noticable. Maybe when game mode was tested , some of these features are defaulted to be on. I think I brought this 47ms figure up way back in the thread, and was hoping that someone that had picked up the set, was a gamer, and could throw in black ops 2, to give us there impressions. Just a note, if you play black ops 2, and play hardcore mode, there are absolutely no logos on the screen during matches, no ammo counter, no mini map, so this would be an awesome break in tool as well. Hopefully someone that has picked this set up, can try it out, it's all I'm waiting on, before I decide to pull the trigger.

David already tried disabling everything and trying all different combinations and unfortunately that's the lowest it will go.
post #599 of 12326
But this was for the european model, correct ? I dont understand processing, etc, but I'm pretty sure they use 50hz instead of 60 as the norm, not sure if this impacts lag or not. Plus it sounds from others that the european models usually end of being different than the us models, atleast thats all we can hope.
post #600 of 12326
Quote:
Originally Posted by skoor View Post

Chad,

Since you personally have a VT50, can you comment on the ST60's filter performance as compared to the VT50 in higher ambiance lighting environments? Thanks

He doesn't have a VT50 he has a GT50
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