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Official Panasonic TC-PxxST60 Series thread - Page 231

post #6901 of 12329
For starters, what exact settings are you using now?

Even default Cinema settings with Contrast @ 80 and Brightness @ 50 (panel brightness at Low or Mid) should be plenty bright. If you are watching dark material during the day, light reflections can make it hard to see into the shadows, but normal TV shows, talk shows, dramas and the like shouldn't be an issue.
post #6902 of 12329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack25 View Post

The PS3 settings used on this TV.

Video Settings
BD/DVD Cinema Conversion: "Automatic"
BD/DVD Upscaler: "Normal"
BD/DVD Video Output Format (HDMI): "Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr"
BD 1080p 24Hz Output: "Off" --> On this TV, outputting 24Hz seems to cause strange artifacts whether the TV does 48fps / 60fps / 96fps, but you can always try on your own

Display Settings
RGB Full Range (HDMI): "Limited"
Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr Super-White (HDMI): "On"
post #6903 of 12329
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri View Post

Video Settings
BD/DVD Cinema Conversion: "Automatic"
BD/DVD Upscaler: "Normal"
BD/DVD Video Output Format (HDMI): "Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr"
BD 1080p 24Hz Output: "Off" --> On this TV, outputting 24Hz seems to cause strange artifacts whether the TV does 48fps / 60fps / 96fps, but you can always try on your own

Display Settings
RGB Full Range (HDMI): "Limited"
Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr Super-White (HDMI): "On"
same for me but with 1080p/24 is on
post #6904 of 12329
Hi,
I just got new Viera ST60, and out of the box screen is noticeable nonuniform in grey color hue. If watching black and white movie or just a blank gray screen I can see the center of the screen is a bit more reddish than sides of the screen. Is this normal or is screen faulty? Does it need any burn in (a few hours working time up until today). Would calibration make any difference? Is this normal?

Below is the picture of the gray screen ... it is a little posterized, but you can see shift in hue from left to right.


post #6905 of 12329
Are there any differences between Custom and Cinema, other than the default settings out of the box? Ie., on some manufacturers' TVs, the home theater mode is also a little softer / less sharp.

Or, are Cinema and Custom pretty much the same if all the same picture settings are plugged in?
post #6906 of 12329
Quote:
Originally Posted by snidely View Post

I've been following this thread for about 3 weeks since our 8-9 year old 50" Panny Plasma suddenly died. I bought the 60" after reading reviews here on AVS and CNET.
Now, after two weeks - unlike most others here - am not sure I made the right decision!

The picture is somewhat better than our old screen. HOWEVER, it is overly DARK. I have tried using the various calibrations posted here and on CNET. In the daytime, it is really dark. At night, the picture is just light enough, in most cases, to be very good. We never had trouble, day or night, with out old panel.
We have a 5 y.o. 50" Panny Plasma in our other home that has a wall of 9 ft tall windows about 8 feet to the left of the screen. No problem with the picture ever being too dark to watch during the day.

I started reading many of the original posts on this subject line. I have only seen one or two posts referring to this "problem".

Is there a series of settings that would help improve visibility in daylite?

============
Right after I got this panel, I commented on the ugliness of the shiny bezel and ultra brite silver border. I found that about 7 weeks ago there were 2-3 pages of discussions on this subject. It appeared that a sizable majority either had no objection to the ugliness or was willing to overlook it. This is in our "second" home - so if I can overcome the daytime "dark picture" problem, will overlook it as well.



If you use Home Theater setting with contrast at about 85 it should be plenty bright enough.

At the risk of sounding presumptuous, as long as your set isn't defective, I am inclined to think that what may be throwing you off is not the actual brightness (or lack there of) its actually the black level. I am going to guess that your old plasma's have a much lighter black level, so maybe your eyes just need time to adjust?

Just a thought because I know that personally when I first got my GT50 last year I was thrown back by how the black was actually, well...black! I was so used to the gray blacks of my prior TV's that at first it was shocking. In my case I almost immedietly fell in love with the depth and contrast it added.

I now have the ST60 and it is more than bright enough for me. During the day plasma's will always look a bit more washed out but even then I find the picture to be great.

I would give it a few days and see if you grow to like it before returning it.
post #6907 of 12329
Quote:
Originally Posted by wattheF View Post

If you use Home Theater setting with contrast at about 85 it should be plenty bright enough.

At the risk of sounding presumptuous, as long as your set isn't defective, I am inclined to think that what may be throwing you off is not the actual brightness (or lack there of) its actually the black level. I am going to guess that your old plasma's have a much lighter black level, so maybe your eyes just need time to adjust?

Just a thought because I know that personally when I first got my GT50 last year I was thrown back by how the black was actually, well...black! I was so used to the gray blacks of my prior TV's that at first it was shocking. In my case I almost immedietly fell in love with the depth and contrast it added.

I now have the ST60 and it is more than bright enough for me. During the day plasma's will always look a bit more washed out but even then I find the picture to be great.

I would give it a few days and see if you grow to like it before returning it.

Is your C.A.T.S setting on? If so, turn it off.
post #6908 of 12329
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri View Post

Are there any differences between Custom and Cinema, other than the default settings out of the box? Ie., on some manufacturers' TVs, the home theater mode is also a little softer / less sharp.

Or, are Cinema and Custom pretty much the same if all the same picture settings are plugged in?

ETA 2: To more directly answer your question, when I copy my calibrated settings from Custom to Cinema, everything looks a bit washed out, which seems consistent with what I measured in the pre-calibration screenshots below. A couple more clarifications inline below.

Cinema is less saturated and slightly more accurate for the deltaE's (ETA 2: with default 10 pt gamma/grayscale and CMS). I did a bunch of these a couple months ago (ETA 2: to try to determine which mode would be the better basis for subsequent calibration). This is what I measured for 5% windows using Calman 5 and my C3 meter. The settings were all default except for Panel Brightness Mid, Brightness +3, Contrast 72, and Gamma 2.4. The Brightness/Contrast choices gave me pure black with no dithering for the AVS709HD Black Clipping pattern for bar 16, and bar 17 was just visible. (I actually use Brightness +4, Contrast 64 now for my dark room viewing.) I think Custom may be the better choice since its saturation errs pretty consistently high, while Cinema is more all over the place within the individual colors.

NB: The scales on some of the graphs changed dynamically depending on the measurements, so you need to look at the scales when comparing.

Cinema


Custom


ETA: I forgot to give the model number. These results are for my 50ST60.
Edited by sawfish - 7/12/13 at 5:46pm
post #6909 of 12329
Cool, thanks. I'll give Custom a try tonight and see how it compares.
post #6910 of 12329
Random request but can anyone post some daylight shots with the st60 on at home? Trying to get a feel for how it looks outside of a showroom. I realize pics wont show it full justice. Thanks!
post #6911 of 12329
Watching netflix movie with wife for first time with wife and there are black bars on the top and bottom. Tried to go into yv settings to fill out screen but cant find the settings. Thanks
post #6912 of 12329
I just got my 65ST60 and I am ready to run the slides but I still can't find where to turn off the pixel orbiter. I have tried just about every where I know to look in the setup area after going into the menu. Thanks for any help.
I did find the pixel orbiter after going into the picture settings but it is grayed out. Do I need to be on any particular input? Right now, I have nothing connected to any input.

Matt
Edited by mdanderson - 7/12/13 at 7:25pm
post #6913 of 12329
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstrlucky74 View Post

Watching netflix movie with wife for first time with wife and there are black bars on the top and bottom. Tried to go into yv settings to fill out screen but cant find the settings. Thanks
You were seeing the aspect ratio of the movie that you were watching. If you want to learn about aspect ratios check out these two links.

Aspect Ratios I

Aspect Ratios II
post #6914 of 12329
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdanderson View Post

I just got my 65ST60 and I am ready to run the slides but I still can't find where to turn off the pixel orbiter. I have tried just about every where I know to look in the setup area after going into the menu. Thanks for you help.
I did find the pixel orbiter after going into the picture settings but it is grayed out.

Matt

You may be in the wrong picture mode. Try Cinema.
post #6915 of 12329
Quote:
Originally Posted by sawfish View Post

ETA 2: To more directly answer your question, when I copy my calibrated settings from Custom to Cinema, everything looks a bit washed out, which seems consistent with what I measured in the pre-calibration screenshots below. A couple more clarifications inline below.

Cinema is less saturated and slightly more accurate for the deltaE's (ETA 2: with default 10 pt gamma/grayscale and CMS). I did a bunch of these a couple months ago (ETA 2: to try to determine which mode would be the better basis for subsequent calibration). This is what I measured for 5% windows using Calman 5 and my C3 meter. The settings were all default except for Panel Brightness Mid, Brightness +3, Contrast 72, and Gamma 2.4. The Brightness/Contrast choices gave me pure black with no dithering for the AVS709HD Black Clipping pattern for bar 16, and bar 17 was just visible. (I actually use Brightness +4, Contrast 64 now for my dark room viewing.) I think Custom may be the better choice since its saturation errs pretty consistently high, while Cinema is more all over the place within the individual colors.

NB: The scales on some of the graphs changed dynamically depending on the measurements, so you need to look at the scales when comparing.

Cinema


Custom


ETA: I forgot to give the model number. These results are for my 50ST60.


Looking at some test patterns from the AVS 709 mp4s, with the same settings between Cinema and Custom, I've found off the bat...
--Custom has a lot of sharpening (visible around text and lines) and/or Cinema is softer. Apparent even when Custom is at Sharpness 0 and Cinema is at 30
--Custom has higher Luminance in the Green and/or Cinema is lower Luminance in Green, on the R/G/B and color gradation screens

EDIT:
Playing the same mp4s from a USB stick plugged into the TV, the sharpness on the text no longer appears in Custom mode.
And between the PS3 and playing from the TV USB (and verifying with DVR content), the PS3 content needs Brightness at 2 notches lower than TV/USB -- have to turn Brightness/black level up 2 notches on straight TV input to get black = black and 1 step above visible.
Edited by cyberbri - 7/12/13 at 7:55pm
post #6916 of 12329
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstrlucky74 View Post

Watching netflix movie with wife for first time with wife and there are black bars on the top and bottom. Tried to go into yv settings to fill out screen but cant find the settings. Thanks

Filling out the screen will zoom into the picture and will not look good. But if you like it like that go ahead. The movie was filmed in that widescreen ratio. It is best to watch it the way the movie was filmed in. It gives you the best picture as oppose of zooming in. To fill in the picture just press aspect ratio format on your remote.
post #6917 of 12329
Me again..watching a Netflix movie and the picture is amazingly clear but when there are dark scenes the blacks are really fuzzy and blotchy. Even parts of the screen/picture looks distorted washed out. Has this problem been brought up before? Again its only dark scenes and its really noticible. By the way i ran the slides for 300 hours. This is so disappointing ...hope i don't have to return it
Edited by mstrlucky74 - 7/12/13 at 8:39pm
post #6918 of 12329
Thanks a lot... Now maybe someone can help with the blacks/dark screen
post #6919 of 12329
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri View Post

Looking at some test patterns from the AVS 709 mp4s, with the same settings between Cinema and Custom, I've found off the bat...
--Custom has a lot of sharpening (visible around text and lines) and/or Cinema is softer. Apparent even when Custom is at Sharpness 0 and Cinema is at 30
--Custom has higher Luminance in the Green and/or Cinema is lower Luminance in Green, on the R/G/B and color gradation screens

EDIT:
Playing the same mp4s from a USB stick plugged into the TV, the sharpness on the text no longer appears in Custom mode.
And between the PS3 and playing from the TV USB (and verifying with DVR content), the PS3 content needs Brightness at 2 notches lower than TV/USB -- have to turn Brightness/black level up 2 notches on straight TV input to get black = black and 1 step above visible.

Did you look at White Clipping? For my 50ST60, with my +4 Brightness, 64 Contrast, and the rest of my calibrated settings, Custom mode gives me white bars up to 252, while Cinema clips it at 240, and its grays are significantly lighter.

For me, all the AVS709HD MP4s are consistent between my HTPC, a USB stick plugged into the TV, a USB stick plugged into my Sony S5100 BD player, and the S5100 playing the AVCHD disc. I'm using the TV's "HDMI/DVI RGB Range" set to "Standard (16-235)" for the HTPC and BD player, and those devices are set accordingly. The TV's "Movies" input for its USB playback doesn't provide the option, but I believe it must be Standard as well. You might want to check your PS3 is set to the same range as the TV, and if there's any doubt, switch from "Auto" to a specific mode.

I have Sharpness at zero, and I don't see any artifacts even from a couple of feet on the Spears and Munsil pattern, which is where it shows up best for me. However, Custom mode does sharpen up more quickly than Cinema when I increase Sharpness. There is an obscure setting you're probably not using that will cause some extreme sharpening, unless you configure yet another obscure setting you're probably not using. More on that here:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1467481/official-st60-input-lag-thread/840#post_23499505
post #6920 of 12329
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri View Post

You may be in the wrong picture mode. Try Cinema.

Thanks for the suggestion. I finally found it and turned it off and slides are now running. Thanks again.
post #6921 of 12329
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstrlucky74 View Post

Me again..watching a Netflix movie and the picture is amazingly clear but when there are dark scenes the blacks are really fuzzy and blotchy. Even parts of the screen/picture looks distorted washed out. Has this problem been brought up before? Again its only dark scenes and its really noticible. By the way i ran the slides for 300 hours. This is so disappointing ...hope i don't have to return it
Are you still talking about Netflix movies. If so, you can't expect them to look as good as good DVD movies, or as good as Blu-ray because what they are sending you is heavily compressed.
post #6922 of 12329
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstrlucky74 View Post

Me again..watching a Netflix movie and the picture is amazingly clear but when there are dark scenes the blacks are really fuzzy and blotchy. Even parts of the screen/picture looks distorted washed out. Has this problem been brought up before? Again its only dark scenes and its really noticible. By the way i ran the slides for 300 hours. This is so disappointing ...hope i don't have to return it
I am thinking a good calibration should clear that up.
post #6923 of 12329
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstrlucky74 View Post

Me again..watching a Netflix movie and the picture is amazingly clear but when there are dark scenes the blacks are really fuzzy and blotchy. Even parts of the screen/picture looks distorted washed out. Has this problem been brought up before? Again its only dark scenes and its really noticible. By the way i ran the slides for 300 hours. This is so disappointing ...hope i don't have to return it

It's not the TV. It's artifacts from the heavily compressed source material. I'd bet money you'd see nothing of the sort with a Blu-ray of the same content.
post #6924 of 12329
Yes a Netflix movie. So I guess I should try a Bluray movie. Just curious does anyone know about what I am trying to explain? It is so noticeable and actually disturbing because it so bad and obvious.....
post #6925 of 12329
Quote:
Originally Posted by sawfish View Post

ETA 2: To more directly answer your question, when I copy my calibrated settings from Custom to Cinema, everything looks a bit washed out, which seems consistent with what I measured in the pre-calibration screenshots below. A couple more clarifications inline below.

Cinema is less saturated and slightly more accurate for the deltaE's (ETA 2: with default 10 pt gamma/grayscale and CMS). I did a bunch of these a couple months ago (ETA 2: to try to determine which mode would be the better basis for subsequent calibration). This is what I measured for 5% windows using Calman 5 and my C3 meter. The settings were all default except for Panel Brightness Mid, Brightness +3, Contrast 72, and Gamma 2.4. The Brightness/Contrast choices gave me pure black with no dithering for the AVS709HD Black Clipping pattern for bar 16, and bar 17 was just visible. (I actually use Brightness +4, Contrast 64 now for my dark room viewing.) I think Custom may be the better choice since its saturation errs pretty consistently high, while Cinema is more all over the place within the individual colors.

NB: The scales on some of the graphs changed dynamically depending on the measurements, so you need to look at the scales when comparing.

Cinema


Custom


ETA: I forgot to give the model number. These results are for my 50ST60.
what are your settings?
post #6926 of 12329
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstrlucky74 View Post

Yes a Netflix movie. So I guess I should try a Bluray movie. Just curious does anyone know about what I am trying to explain? It is so noticeable and actually disturbing because it so bad and obvious.....

Whenever you test your tv for best picture,always use the best settings and source with proper cables. Blurays will look reference quality, HD channels and Netflix are compressed signals which sometimes show artifacts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kobyh15 View Post

It's not the TV. It's artifacts from the heavily compressed source material. I'd bet money you'd see nothing of the sort with a Blu-ray of the same content.

This is exactly right, he is watching a streamed source. Not all movies will look like this but some will, assuming his Internet speed is fast enough or router too.
post #6927 of 12329
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstrlucky74 View Post

Yes a Netflix movie. So I guess I should try a Bluray movie. Just curious does anyone know about what I am trying to explain? It is so noticeable and actually disturbing because it so bad and obvious.....

I see this as well. As others have said it is the source material that is to blame. Having said that I have had other TV's that handle these kinds of overly compressed content better on scenes like that. It is only once in a while so I just ignore it. Otherwise the picture is spectacular.

Proper setting may help minimize these issues.

It should set your mind at ease to know that any good bluray will have no issues like this at all.
post #6928 of 12329
Quote:
Originally Posted by sawfish View Post

Did you look at White Clipping? For my 50ST60, with my +4 Brightness, 64 Contrast, and the rest of my calibrated settings, Custom mode gives me white bars up to 252, while Cinema clips it at 240, and its grays are significantly lighter.

For me, all the AVS709HD MP4s are consistent between my HTPC, a USB stick plugged into the TV, a USB stick plugged into my Sony S5100 BD player, and the S5100 playing the AVCHD disc. I'm using the TV's "HDMI/DVI RGB Range" set to "Standard (16-235)" for the HTPC and BD player, and those devices are set accordingly. The TV's "Movies" input for its USB playback doesn't provide the option, but I believe it must be Standard as well. You might want to check your PS3 is set to the same range as the TV, and if there's any doubt, switch from "Auto" to a specific mode.

I have Sharpness at zero, and I don't see any artifacts even from a couple of feet on the Spears and Munsil pattern, which is where it shows up best for me. However, Custom mode does sharpen up more quickly than Cinema when I increase Sharpness. There is an obscure setting you're probably not using that will cause some extreme sharpening, unless you configure yet another obscure setting you're probably not using. More on that here:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1467481/official-st60-input-lag-thread/840#post_23499505

Through the USB port, the white clipping screen shows bars up to 250~, that don't go away even when upping the contrast to 100. It is just the USB port just using the full 0-255 range, because on the black clipping screen as well, the background/space between the bars stays black until the lowest bars have light in them.
Edited by cyberbri - 7/13/13 at 9:32am
post #6929 of 12329
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sawfish View Post

Did you look at White Clipping? For my 50ST60, with my +4 Brightness, 64 Contrast, and the rest of my calibrated settings, Custom mode gives me white bars up to 252, while Cinema clips it at 240, and its grays are significantly lighter.

For me, all the AVS709HD MP4s are consistent between my HTPC, a USB stick plugged into the TV, a USB stick plugged into my Sony S5100 BD player, and the S5100 playing the AVCHD disc. I'm using the TV's "HDMI/DVI RGB Range" set to "Standard (16-235)" for the HTPC and BD player, and those devices are set accordingly. The TV's "Movies" input for its USB playback doesn't provide the option, but I believe it must be Standard as well. You might want to check your PS3 is set to the same range as the TV, and if there's any doubt, switch from "Auto" to a specific mode.

I have Sharpness at zero, and I don't see any artifacts even from a couple of feet on the Spears and Munsil pattern, which is where it shows up best for me. However, Custom mode does sharpen up more quickly than Cinema when I increase Sharpness. There is an obscure setting you're probably not using that will cause some extreme sharpening, unless you configure yet another obscure setting you're probably not using. More on that here:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1467481/official-st60-input-lag-thread/840#post_23499505

Through the USB port, the white clipping screen shows bars up to 250~, that don't go away even when upping the contrast to 100. It is just the USB port just using the full 0-255 range, because on the black clipping screen as well, the background/space between the bars stays black until the lowest bars have light in them.

That's strange. Mine definitely does not do that.
post #6930 of 12329
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstrlucky74 View Post

Watching netflix movie with wife for first time with wife and there are black bars on the top and bottom. Tried to go into yv settings to fill out screen but cant find the settings. Thanks
What movie was it and what aspect ratio ? Your unit is 16:9 aspect ratio. The director of films decide what aspect ratio they would like to use. In the end you can have bars on the top and bottom and everything be ok. You could also have your format wrong as well, the "format" button is on your remote. Remember where you started wink.gif
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