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Official Panasonic TC-PxxST60 Series thread - Page 27

post #781 of 12325
Quote:
Originally Posted by headlesschickens View Post

I do agree that both tests are potentially inaccurate. The lag testing device might be thrown off by plasma refresh, that could be possible. But even if that were the case, I'd expect it to be consistently wrong between incremental generations. It got ~37ms for every single 2012 Samsung, 47ms for every 2012 Panasonic. That's fairly consistent. I'd expect that if the drive in the 2013 ST60 had been significantly altered it would be a big marketing deal already, so my assumption is that it's largely the same as the 2012 models and should be giving at least consistent numbers, whether they're correct or not.

The lag tester isn't thrown off by plasma refresh, it's capable of testing any type of display.
post #782 of 12325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

You guys may get screwed in some ways but you have many blessings...... For example no taxes on lottery winnings, ask the guy in NJ if the 338 million he won was fairly taxed when he gets about 50-60% of his winnings.

I would gladly pay 60% of 338 millio:Dn.
post #783 of 12325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orta View Post

It doesn't really matter, 47-62ms (cloned timer) is still a poor result. The same site/reviewer measured 16ms (cloned timer) on the ST50's with presumably the same set up. This is up to almost 4x worse, the ST60 is an awful gaming display. The cumulative effect is what kills you.
I disagree. It might be an awful gaming display IF you play online games exclusively. I've been playing single player campaing games on my 42ST60E and, even though you can tell the lag, it doesn't affect the overall gameplay experience.
post #784 of 12325
So anyways, does anyone know when the 60ST60 will be available? Money is burning a hole in my pocket.
post #785 of 12325
Does the ST60 happen to have IP control?
post #786 of 12325
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSpectre88 View Post

Wireless controllers have virtually no input lag, tests done between them found no detectable lag. I use wired controllers anyway though, but that's so I can use them with the PC easily. I'm not even concerned with input lag honestly, just stating the facts. I have terrible TWC high speed internet and average between 80-90 ping in any of the games I play, so having minimal input lag doesn't do much for me. lol

Hahaha! I would only care about input lag if I was a professional gamer. I'm a casual Call of Duty online gamer and generally have more kills than deaths so I'm not concerned with input lag much. But my statement holds true, you're only as fast as the slowest link or component. Yourself (reaction time) generally being the slowest part of that link. wink.gif
post #787 of 12325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sibuna View Post

is the Price BestBuy has the 50" listed for the normal price or are they running some special?

Unknown, but AFAIK, it's been the same price since they first offered it a couple of weeks ago. As I'm sure you know, it is about a 13% discount to list price and free delivery.
post #788 of 12325
Quote:
Originally Posted by cotoor View Post

For those of you running color panels for the ST60, are you using D-Nice's slides for the ST50?
The slides for the 2013 will be different in sequence compared to last year but if you are using last year's slides you should be ok.
post #789 of 12325
Quote:
Originally Posted by alucard3 View Post

D-Nice
Please evaluate the peak brightness of all sets in torch mode.
Very odd request but default Vivid is 15.1fL. Default Custom comes in slightly higher at 15.7fL.
post #790 of 12325
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSpectre88 View Post

They are using the most advanced lag testing method available (Leo Bodnar Lag Tester), they stated it. As for your monitor comment, my monitor is 100% rated at 16m input lag. Maybe you were referring to how the ST50 was originally measured at 16ms before they used the lag tester? As for being a UK panel, last years UK models tested very similarly in terms of input lag. Hopefully NA models are much better, but it may be unlikely.

I was mostly referring to the ST50 being touted as having 16ms input lag, which has been proven to be inaccurate. I have an ASUS VH236Hm, which I believe was tested at 16ms. This was several years back. I can't remember the source, but I recall someone (possibly more than one person) retesting several monitors with a more accurate method and the numbers were higher. Details are fuzzy as it's been nearly a year since I researched monitors before purchasing my ASUS in Spring '12.
post #791 of 12325
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Yes

Thank you for the reply. smile.gif
post #792 of 12325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Broccoli View Post


Who would want a calibration in torch mode? I thought the request was an attempt at humor. No? Changing the subject a bit, is there ever any technical reason to get a TV calibrated in torch mode?
Then it wouldn't be Tourch Mode, would it? biggrin.gif
post #793 of 12325
I think we all feel that way!!! I wish i had some cash I been waiting for the 60 inch st60 also.So gald i have a best buy card and 24 months too pay it off or i never be able too pull the trigger on a st60!
post #794 of 12325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post

Hahaha! I would only care about input lag if I was a professional gamer. I'm a casual Call of Duty online gamer and generally have more kills than deaths so I'm not concerned with input lag much. But my statement holds true, you're only as fast as the slowest link or component. Yourself (reaction time) generally being the slowest part of that link. wink.gif

You won't get any arguments from me on that subject. cool.gif

You will benefit a lot more from actual in game skill and proficiency then having slightly smoother controls.
post #795 of 12325
Are the 2013 Panasonic built in wireless adapters N or AC compatible ?
post #796 of 12325
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

The slides for the 2013 will be different in sequence compared to last year but if you are using last year's slides you should be ok.

Bought a 50st60 to try out and fill the whole on my tv stand until the 55" or 60" are available at BB. Just wandering when you will post slides and the out of box and post slides settings? Just hope they are out when I get my set... Thx in advance!
post #797 of 12325
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggweeziehd View Post

Bought a 50st60 to try out and fill the whole on my tv stand until the 55" or 60" are available at BB. Just wandering when you will post slides and the out of box and post slides settings? Just hope they are out when I get my set... Thx in advance!
I will not be posting out of the box settings this year. Only post panel aging. Slides will be available tonight.
post #798 of 12325
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

I will not be posting out of the box settings this year. Only post panel aging. Slides will be available tonight.

As well as post panel settings? Thx.
post #799 of 12325
If anyone is interested zt60 and vt60 prices and specs are up on BB Website. They also all say "coming soon"
post #800 of 12325
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggweeziehd View Post

As well as post panel settings? Thx.
No. I already posted when those would be available.
post #801 of 12325
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSpectre88 View Post

You won't get any arguments from me on that subject. cool.gif

You will benefit a lot more from actual in game skill and proficiency then having slightly smoother controls.
Input lag also effects movement of characters, especially when playing simple platform games offline.

With higher input lag, characters feel heavier, especially when you have to turn around really fast... Timing jumps over holes and things is a lot harder with higher input lag too.

It isn't just a COD or fighting game thing. A TV with high input lag makes playing a Megaman or Mario game more difficult (extremely so, in the case of Megaman) than it needs to be.
post #802 of 12325
Quote:
Originally Posted by sodaboy581 View Post

Input lag also effects movement of characters, especially when playing simple platform games offline.

With higher input lag, characters feel heavier, especially when you have to turn around really fast... Timing jumps over holes and things is a lot harder with higher input lag too.

It isn't just a COD or fighting game thing. A TV with high input lag makes playing a Megaman or Mario game more difficult (extremely so, in the case of Megaman) than it needs to be.

Very high input lag, sure. I don't feel that's the case here however. I have been playing Tomb Raider and BioShock Infinite on my GT50 in custom mode (70-75ms) with no problems. It's more noticeable with a mouse compared to my 16ms monitor, but a controller isn't as bad. It's buttery smooth on my monitor, but it's far from unplayable on custom, just not as perfectly smooth and fluid as it could be. There's no difficulty turning or jumping, up to 100ms your actions should still register as being "instant".
Edited by JSpectre88 - 4/2/13 at 4:24pm
post #803 of 12325
Quote:
Originally Posted by norvegia View Post

I disagree. It might be an awful gaming display IF you play online games exclusively. I've been playing single player campaing games on my 42ST60E and, even though you can tell the lag, it doesn't affect the overall gameplay experience.

What games do you play on your st60?
And how do you feel about it playing on your st60?
smile.gif
post #804 of 12325
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSpectre88 View Post

Very high input lag, sure. I don't feel that's the case here however. I have been playing Tomb Raider and BioShock Infinite on my GT50 in custom mode (70-75ms) with no problems. It's more noticeable with a mouse compared to my 16ms monitor, but a controller isn't as bad. It's buttery smooth on my monitor, but it's far from unplayable on custom, just not as perfectly smooth and fluid as it could be. There's no difficulty turning or jumping, up to 100ms your actions should still register as being "instant".

No, I don't think "up to 100ms" is "instant" at all. You've just adapted to your handicap.

I don't claim to be a pro gamer by any means, but I can easily tell the difference between 32ms vs 70-75ms for just about any type of game. Even navigating a game's menu feels entirely different with that much lag.

You may feel you turn or jump decently with your current lag amount, but your skill at the game and reaction time would improve quite a bit with a lower input lag... I guarantee you the feeling of the game would be markedly different. Just even how the screen adjusts by simply tapping the controller would feel a lot more responsive.

But if you're OK with what you have and are experiencing, I'm proud of you. You should enjoy your purchase. smile.gif
post #805 of 12325
Just a thought really. But it would be very kind of you guys to start a different thread that is about nothing except game lag. You are kind of overwhelming this one. Sound fair? smile.gif
post #806 of 12325
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggweeziehd View Post

If anyone is interested zt60 and vt60 prices and specs are up on BB Website. They also all say "coming soon"
Mr. Cleveland has the best online price for pre-ordering
post #807 of 12325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Just a thought really. But it would be very kind of you guys to start a different thread that is about nothing except game lag. You are kind of overwhelming this one. Sound fair? smile.gif
I hear you, but to me the only reason I haven't pulled the trigger on this tv is people typically use plasma as a great gaming set, but now we have numbers of 47 to the 70ms. If this is verified, and I go more by user experience as the unit in question could have been an exception, or possibly the European model is different. From the one user in this thread that has actually gamed on his set, he noticed no lag. This will make or break this tv for a lot of people.
post #808 of 12325
D-Nice,
I've started running last years slides on my st60. Should I just continue with them, or switch over to the new ones once you've posted them? Thanks for all you do.
post #809 of 12325
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucknuts07 View Post

I hear you, but to me the only reason I haven't pulled the trigger on this tv is people typically use plasma as a great gaming set, but now we have numbers of 47 to the 70ms. If this is verified, and I go more by user experience as the unit in question could have been an exception, or possibly the European model is different. From the one user in this thread that has actually gamed on his set, he noticed no lag. This will make or break this tv for a lot of people.
If another thread is started and that is your primary concern then you could find out more easily by accessing that thread. It is not unusual to start a gaming thread for a tv series. I appreciate your guys passion but there are only a few of you and a large majority of the posts are becoming just you guys.
post #810 of 12325
Quote:
Originally Posted by sodaboy581 View Post

No, I don't think "up to 100ms" is "instant" at all. You've just adapted to your handicap.

I don't claim to be a pro gamer by any means, but I can easily tell the difference between 32ms vs 70-75ms for just about any type of game. Even navigating a game's menu feels entirely different with that much lag.

You may feel you turn or jump decently with your current lag amount, but your skill at the game and reaction time would improve quite a bit with a lower input lag... I guarantee you the feeling of the game would be markedly different. Just even how the screen adjusts by simply tapping the controller would feel a lot more responsive.

But if you're OK with what you have and are experiencing, I'm proud of you. You should enjoy your purchase. smile.gif

That's what experts and game developers agree on. Can you read? I have a 16ms monitor that I play on more than my TV. You realize that even 75ms is around 2.5 frames of delay at 30 fps, that's it. You're talking like there's a half second delay on all your inputs, it's just not "that" serious. Yes, 16ms is ideal and feels smoother and more fluid, but anything with a total input latency (not just display lag) up to 100ms will still feel relatively "instant".

This will be my only reply to you, as I can tell you're one of those types. rolleyes.gif
Edited by JSpectre88 - 4/2/13 at 5:49pm
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