or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Video Components › Video Download Services & Hardware › Netflix adds 3D and Super HD
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Netflix adds 3D and Super HD - Page 47

post #1381 of 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by undecided View Post

Respectfully I think they are being the "gatekeeper" - Netflix decided not to supply Super HD to certain ISPs unless they signed for Netflix Open Connect.

+1 Thank you for putting it so succinctly.
post #1382 of 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

Look it up; plenty of chatter on the topic.

This is what my ISP has to say about it:
I just switched to Cox's highest speed residential network service tier, the 50/5 "Ultimate" plan, which has a 400 GB/month cap. 4.5 hours a day of Netflix Super HD w/5.1 sound will burn that up (388.2 GB; non-Super-HD 1080p is 122.4 GB less). 400 GB is the most that you can have on a residential account. If you exceed it repeatedly they threaten to suspend your service.

Sadly, there's no FiOS in this neighborhood. Nothing else can deliver close to the same speeds.


As you suggested, I checked into it a bit further and this particular article confirmed my suspicions. http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/12/report-data-caps-just-a-cash-cow-for-internet-providers/
As I posted earlier, if I can pay a reasonable fee with no caps, then why shouldn't you? wink.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by undecided View Post

Now I know I am being a little 'cheeky' - but mailiang and michaeltscott you both have ISP's with Open Connect and it may be easier to rationalize Netflix's position if you are already getting Super HD smile.gif


Although some have assumed that I'm taking sides with Netflix, my point has always been, that due to the confidentiality of the negotiations, and as you have already noted, we can only speculate about reasons for the dispute with the ISP's.


Ian
post #1383 of 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by undecided View Post

I hope Netflix finds a business model that allows them to continue to deliver the great service and value they offer today and expand the features they offer to all of their customer base. I like others in this thread would pay a little more for higher speed / higher quality streams.

I think Netflix has forsaken its identity. Rather than building on their role as a "paradigm shifter," Netflix is actively normalizing itself into something generic, i.e., cable TV. The only difference being Netflix transmits its programming over Internet rather than over the cable/air. It's turned into HBO wannabe. Instead of something wonderful that could have changed and dominated the industry, instead it's becoming something supplemental vying with other cable companies for viewers.

Way back in the thread, Mr.G mentioned something about Netflix's enlisting its customers to lobby ISPs reminding him of Time Warner asking its customers to petition cable channels not to raise fees. My guess is that Netflix hired a bunch of former cable executives from the recent moves made... moves that a cable company might make. And Netflix is starting to treat its customers like a cable company might.

I have my money on Netflix raising the fees to $9.99 in 2014. I can see Netflix introducing tier-ing (is that a word?) by quality and/or programming and corresponding differentiated pricing, saying something about offering choice to its customers... Doing something that a cable company would do. frown.gif
post #1384 of 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

There is a very real and present need for a "Manage video quality" selection to defeat Super HD while allowing regular 1080p for those of us with bandwidth caps. With the diminished summer television schedule I'm streaming more; 4 hours of Super HD is 10.44 GB worth of video, versus 7 GB for 3850 Kbps 1080p; over 30 days that's a savings of 103 GB, a quarter of my new cap, a third of the cap for my old service tier. Some of the stuff that I "watch" are dialog-oriented crime procedurals, like Law & Order, for which Super HD is completely unnecessary; SD would be fine. I only really watch the establishing scenes for those and mostly just listen to the rest while playing puzzle games on my smartphone or tablet. I'm going to have to start watching some stuff on my Roku 3, tuning the output resolution down to 720p.

At present, the defined tiers are:

  • "Good quality (up to 0.3 GB per hour)", good enough for the 375 Kbps video + 192 Kpbs stereo sound on an STB; 560 Kbps video + 64 Kbps stereo on a PC.
  • "Better quality (up to 0.7 GB per hour)", good enough for 1050 Kbps 480x640 video + 384 Kbps 5.1 sound with bits to spare, but not 1750 Kbps 480x704 which need .8 GB/hour for video alone.
  • "Best quality (up to 1.0 GB per hour, or up to 2.3 GB per hour for HD)", which was defined for the old 4800 Kbps 1080p + 384 Kbps 5.1 sound, 2.33 GB/hour; 5800 Kbps 1080p w/5.1 sound requires 2.8 GB/hour but the Best setting doesn't block it

I'd define tiers for:

  • best quality SD + 5.1 sound (1 GB/hour)
  • 720p + 5.1 sound (1.5 GB/hour)
  • non-Super-HD 1080p + 5.1 sound (1.9 GB/hour)
  • Super HD + 5.1 sound (2.8 GB/hour)

There could be lower tiers for crap video; I don't care. It'd be really great if a sub-menu for these setting were added to the player UIs, similar to the "Audio & subtitles" menu.

It would be nice not to have a cap at all; Congress needs to enact laws to forbid them, or at least make them much higher. They essential constitute constraint of trade for the video streaming and content download industries.

I'm going to edit this and send it to Netflix via support chat. Who knows? Perhaps someone will listen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post

eek.gif


Have you ever considered switching to another ISP like Fios, if available. These caps don't seem to reduce subscriber's cost when compared to the majority of ISP's which don't have any. I'm not quite clear as to why they have them if they are not saving anyone any money. I live in a highly congested area in terms of internet traffic, have no caps and pay on average less the $50.00 a month. Maybe you could shed some light on this for me.

Ian

Or you could switch to a non-Open Connect ISP and then it would default to the non-Super-HD 1080p + 5.1 sound (1.9 GB/hour).

Just messing smile.gif

Sorry
post #1385 of 1798
Here is a thought - how about Netflix supplies Super HD / 3D to the Open Connect ISPs just as they are doing now.

For Netflix subscribers using non Open Connect ISPs they could charge a small (~$2 per month) for access to Super HD. .

That way everyone with Open Connect ISP's continues to get Super HD / 3D as is - and if some on non Open Connect ISPs want access they pay for it and Netflix presumably covers any additional cost.

Everyone is happy......

Netflix can explain that the charge is because the ISP is costing them more to deliver the high speed stream (assuming this is correct) and I think this would actually put more pressure on the ISPs to use Open Connect (assuming Netflix terms are reasonable). The majority of consumers today don't know or care about Super HD - but if they see a cost for Super HD which others are getting for free they will want the same. I think this would bring the discussion to the attention of a broader audience which is healthy.

I know it is somewhat against my Net Neutrality arguments - but it would seem to be a way to move this forward.
post #1386 of 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by undecided View Post


Or you could switch to a non-Open Connect ISP and then it would default to the non-Super-HD 1080p + 5.1 sound (1.9 GB/hour).

Just messing smile.gif

Sorry


That's why I suggested Fios. biggrin.gif Actually, as with Mike, there aren't any other choices in my neighborhood either. Like yourself, I started with DSL, but Verizon started to raise my rates and lower my speed. mad.gif There is no Fios, and there probably never will be since Verizon is winding down their investment in utilities. Their eye is on wireless for the future. Less overhead, fewer headaches and more money. My folks use to have a home in West Palm Beach Fla and at that time there were plans to bring in fiber, and they already had a choice of two different cable companies. Unfortunately most of us don't have that luxury.


Ian
Edited by mailiang - 7/4/13 at 9:10am
post #1387 of 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by undecided View Post

Here is a thought - how about Netflix supplies Super HD / 3D to the Open Connect ISPs just as they are doing now.

For Netflix subscribers using non Open Connect ISPs they could charge a small (~$2 per month) for access to Super HD. .

That way everyone with Open Connect ISP's continues to get Super HD / 3D as is - and if some on non Open Connect ISPs want access they pay for it and Netflix presumably covers any additional cost.

Everyone is happy......

Netflix can explain that the charge is because the ISP is costing them more to deliver the high speed stream (assuming this is correct) and I think this would actually put more pressure on the ISPs to use Open Connect (assuming Netflix terms are reasonable). The majority of consumers today don't know or care about Super HD - but if they see a cost for Super HD which others are getting for free they will want the same. I think this would bring the discussion to the attention of a broader audience which is healthy.

I know it is somewhat against my Net Neutrality arguments - but it would seem to be a way to move this forward.

That would certainly be cheaper for me than paying $5 a month for unBlock US to get access to the 3D and SuperHD streams.
post #1388 of 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by undecided View Post

Respectfully I think they are being the "gatekeeper" - Netflix decided not to supply Super HD to certain ISPs unless they signed for Netflix Open Connect. We can all speculate why most of the major ISPs have declined to do this - but frankly that is all it is - speculation. Only the ISP's and Netflix truly know. It was Netflix who decided to change the 'status quo' when previously everyone could get the highest quality stream if their connection supported the necessary speed.

Obviously you're free to consider Netflix to be a "gatekeeper". The difference between what their doing and what the ISPs who block and throttle traffic from specific sources are doing is that Netflix wants you to have access to the new higher bandwidth services, they just can't afford to offer it to you any other way. It costs them the same extra amount for the necessary storage to host the higher bandwidth content with the commerical CDNs whether no one uses it or everyone does; I don't think that they could get a sufficient number of their customers to pay enough extra for access to Super HD and their tiny library of 3D titles to offset that extra cost. This is, of course, speculation, based on the fact that the CDNs have a per GB charge for storage and what Netflix says:
Quote:
Open Connect is a single-purpose Content Distribution Network, and by shifting to Open Connect, from using third-party commercial CDNs, we are able to save money and keep consumer prices low.

I wonder if that's what constrains the size of Netflix's library, which I believe has stalled at slightly over 12,000 titles for the past few years. In recent months Amazon appears to have blown right past them in number of titles, though they still have many fewer HD titles and titles with 5.1 sound. There has to be a maximum amount which they can afford to pay for storage to host content on commercial CDNs (without raising the price of their service) which would translate into a maximum number of hours of content which they can offer.

As you say, we can only speculate what's going on between Netflix and the ISP's who've so far not set up for access to Open Connect, and we're choosing to speculate the worse. It could be that they've all struck deals to do it but that the larger ISPs have different priorities and haven't gotten around to it. The larger the ISP, the greater the amount of effort necessary on their part.
post #1389 of 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by undecided View Post


Or you could switch to a non-Open Connect ISP and then it would default to the non-Super-HD 1080p + 5.1 sound (1.9 GB/hour).

My ability to switch to a non-Open Connect ISP is exactly equal to your ability to switch to one with Open Connect access.

Believe me, I most surely would switch to a non-Open-Connect ISP (or an Open Connect ISP with no caps) if there was one available to me that I could get anything close to the same sort of speed from. It's possible that I could get AT&T U-Verse Max Turbo for $25 less per month, but at speeds "up to 24 Mbps" it's half of what I have now.
post #1390 of 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

I wonder if that's what constrains the size of Netflix's library, which I believe has stalled at slightly over 12,000 titles for the past few years. In recent months Amazon appears to have blown right past them in number of titles, though they still have many fewer HD titles and titles with 5.1 sound. There has to be a maximum amount which they can afford to pay for storage to host content on commercial CDNs (without raising the price of their service) which would translate into a maximum number of hours of content which they can offer.

That's an excellent point. So Netflix may be limited in what they can offer via CDNs so they have no choice but to go through Open Connect if they want to offer "more" to the customers.
post #1391 of 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apostate View Post

That's an excellent point. So Netflix may be limited in what they can offer via CDNs so they have no choice but to go through Open Connect if they want to offer "more" to the customers.

It also makes me wonder if they might not be very slowly paring down the number of titles which they offer by dumping a ton of infrequently accessed ones without replacing them with something else. Kind of the way that a "pound" of coffee at the supermarket is now 12 ounces, and a "pint" of ice cream is now 14 ounces.
post #1392 of 1798
Can somebody help me with something. I have had unblock us for about a month for netflix. I also stream vudu HDX. (Through Panasonic BD 220)
When Netflix streams well, it is absolutely fantastic. (The super hd). But it seems like lately I am having difficulty getting a very good hi DEF picture from Netflix. ( Especially in the evenings and weekends). I check my Internet, and am usually getting between about 17-20 Mbps. I will then turn netflix off and immediately go to vudu. Hdx Streams perfectly and with a gorgeous picture. Then ..immediately go back to Netflix, and it is just not as excellent...as it is on other occasions.
Why would this be?

Thx in advance
Edited by frostylou - 7/4/13 at 12:08pm
post #1393 of 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by frostylou View Post

Can somebody help me with something. I have had unblock us for about a month for netflix. I also stream vudu HDX. (Through Panasonic BD 220)
When Netflix streams well, it is absolutely fantastic. (The super hd). But it seems like lately I am having difficulty getting a very good hi DEF picture from Netflix. ( Especially in the evenings and weekends). I check my Internet, and am usually getting between about 17-20 Mbps. I will then turn netflix off and immediately go to vudu. Hdx Streams perfectly and with a gorgeous picture. Then ..immediately go back to Netflix, and it is just not as excellent...as it is on other occasions.
Why would this be?

Thx in advance

I have the same problem. I have Comcast 50-10 mbps and with downloads I usually get 40-55 mbps. during the weekday I can sometimes get the 5850 rate using unblock-us but on most evenings I can barely get the 720P speed and on weekends I usually cannot get HD from Netflix. Sometimes if I change DNS and disable unblock-us then I get somewhat faster speeds, sometime I don't. I usually use my WD Live as Netflix has made my PS3 unusable by not displaying the movie end credits, seems to be 2 of us that actually watch the movie end credits on Netflix. Setting 7 feet from my 65 inch 1080P set makes SD look really bad especially the 320-240 when Netflix starts. Guess I will call again and see if they can do anything.

Mike T
post #1394 of 1798
Thx Mike.
This is good to know...
post #1395 of 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtallent View Post

I usually use my WD Live as Netflix has made my PS3 unusable by not displaying the movie end credits, seems to be 2 of us that actually watch the movie end credits on Netflix.

You don't get the Neflix "Post-play Experience" on your WD TV Live? I do.
post #1396 of 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

You don't get the Neflix "Post-play Experience" on your WD TV Live? I do.

Yes, the WD does but it starts AFTER the end credits end not before like the PS3. I would like to turn off ALL "post play" but Netflix seems to know best how I should view their service. Also the PS3 now has this big banner in the upper left of screen with the file name and a time bar across the bottom after the movie starts, pretty soon we will be getting a bit PG or R message over the movie with a bright "Netflix" bug in the bottom right corner and their conversion to a "broadcast" service will be complete, and I will be subscribing to something else.

rant off

Mike T
post #1397 of 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by frostylou View Post

Can somebody help me with something. I have had unblock us for about a month for netflix. I also stream vudu HDX. (Through Panasonic BD 220)
When Netflix streams well, it is absolutely fantastic. (The super hd). But it seems like lately I am having difficulty getting a very good hi DEF picture from Netflix. ( Especially in the evenings and weekends). I check my Internet, and am usually getting between about 17-20 Mbps. I will then turn netflix off and immediately go to vudu. Hdx Streams perfectly and with a gorgeous picture. Then ..immediately go back to Netflix, and it is just not as excellent...as it is on other occasions.
Why would this be?

Thx in advance

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtallent View Post

I have the same problem. I have Comcast 50-10 mbps and with downloads I usually get 40-55 mbps. during the weekday I can sometimes get the 5850 rate using unblock-us but on most evenings I can barely get the 720P speed and on weekends I usually cannot get HD from Netflix. Sometimes if I change DNS and disable unblock-us then I get somewhat faster speeds, sometime I don't. I usually use my WD Live as Netflix has made my PS3 unusable by not displaying the movie end credits, seems to be 2 of us that actually watch the movie end credits on Netflix. Setting 7 feet from my 65 inch 1080P set makes SD look really bad especially the 320-240 when Netflix starts. Guess I will call again and see if they can do anything.

Mike T

I am about to cancel unblock-us (for the second time). First time it was totally unreliable in getting Open Connect servers on a Roku 2. I had recently switched to an Apple TV and someone in the Apple TV thread posted that they were getting reliable connections to the Open Connect servers so I gave it another go. This time I do seem to get the Open Connect servers every time - but like you I find the actual download speed varies where I sometimes get the 5800 kbps stream but others it struggles to get above 1000 kbps......I switched back to the Open DNS severs and the Apple TV always starts immediately at 3800 kbps. unblock-us have also confirmed that HBO GO will not work with their DNS - so time to cancel again.

I am using 25 Mbps Comcast connection.
post #1398 of 1798
Those using unblock-us (or other DNS) may be interested in this.

Credit Card Companies Block VPN Payments

http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Credit-Card-Companies-Block-VPN-Payments-124858
post #1399 of 1798
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by undecided View Post


I am about to cancel unblock-us (for the second time). First time it was totally unreliable in getting Open Connect servers on a Roku 2. I had recently switched to an Apple TV and someone in the Apple TV thread posted that they were getting reliable connections to the Open Connect servers so I gave it another go. This time I do seem to get the Open Connect servers every time - but like you I find the actual download speed varies where I sometimes get the 5800 kbps stream but others it struggles to get above 1000 kbps......I switched back to the Open DNS severs and the Apple TV always starts immediately at 3800 kbps. unblock-us have also confirmed that HBO GO will not work with their DNS - so time to cancel again.

I am using 25 Mbps Comcast connection.

Hbogo has been working fine for me for over a year with UUs. Roku, Xbox, ATV all working fine with the service and I have it set on the router.

They did post this today: http://support.unblock-us.com/customer/portal/articles/1212472-hbogo-now-supported
post #1400 of 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aero 1 View Post

Hbogo has been working fine for me for over a year with UUs. Roku, Xbox, ATV all working fine with the service and I have it set on the router.

They did post this today: http://support.unblock-us.com/customer/portal/articles/1212472-hbogo-now-supported

Ok that is good.

A couple of weeks ago they had posted it was not supported. I didn't actually try because I have gone back to OpenDNS because unblock-us wasn't giving consistent download speeds on Netflix.

HBO GO is a nice addition on the Apple TV. I was only planning to sign up for one month of HBO with DirecTV to watch Game of Thrones Season 3 from HBO On Demand or HBO GO - but they offered me HBO for just under $3 a month for 18 months so I may keep it longer.
post #1401 of 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtallent View Post

Yes, the WD does but it starts AFTER the end credits end not before like the PS3. I would like to turn off ALL "post play" but Netflix seems to know best how I should view their service. Also the PS3 now has this big banner in the upper left of screen with the file name and a time bar across the bottom after the movie starts, pretty soon we will be getting a bit PG or R message over the movie with a bright "Netflix" bug in the bottom right corner and their conversion to a "broadcast" service will be complete, and I will be subscribing to something else.

rant off

Mike T

Don't forget those hastag bugs too but serious if Netflix does that I am gone. I already use the Roku 3 more than the PS3 despite a better GUI, better reliability and got the Roku because I detest that annoying post play crap.
post #1402 of 1798
I know this is a rather naive question, so I apologise in advance, but what are the major advantages of using a paid DNS service like unblock-us or the others mentioned here? If you have a Netflix US account like I do, this will not let you get content from other countries right?

I can see the advantage of using one for a service like mlb.com. They use the location of your IP to blackout certain teams, IE in NYC area you would not be able to stream Mets or Yankees games live, so a VPN or DNS service could give you an IP in another region that would circumvent this.
post #1403 of 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdchance View Post

I know this is a rather naive question, so I apologise in advance, but what are the major advantages of using a paid DNS service like unblock-us or the others mentioned here? If you have a Netflix US account like I do, this will not let you get content from other countries right?

.


Unblckus does two things; it allows you to access every Netflix region and several other non Netflix sites. And it also gives you Super HD if your ISP does not support Netflix Super HD


UnblockUS only works with specific sites of their choosing.


http://support.unblock-us.com/customer/portal/articles/291570
post #1404 of 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by undecided View Post


I am about to cancel unblock-us (for the second time). First time it was totally unreliable in getting Open Connect servers on a Roku 2. I had recently switched to an Apple TV and someone in the Apple TV thread posted that they were getting reliable connections to the Open Connect servers so I gave it another go. This time I do seem to get the Open Connect servers every time - but like you I find the actual download speed varies where I sometimes get the 5800 kbps stream but others it struggles to get above 1000 kbps......I switched back to the Open DNS severs and the Apple TV always starts immediately at 3800 kbps. unblock-us have also confirmed that HBO GO will not work with their DNS - so time to cancel again.

I am using 25 Mbps Comcast connection.

???
HBO Go works fine for me with the unBlock US, DNS IP Addresses.

HBO Go works from multiple devices for me with UnBlock US.
post #1405 of 1798
For a couple of days I've noticed that some of the titles in my queue that were HD are now showing as Super HD. My ISP is Time Warner. I've made no changes in service level with TW. Anyone know if there's been a change in Netflix or a new agreement between Netflix and Time Warner?

I do notice a little bit more detail. This is on a 50 inch plasma and a 55 plasma at 8 and 10 feet away. The skin pores in people are more defined.
post #1406 of 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by KramerTC View Post

For a couple of days I've noticed that some of the titles in my queue that were HD are now showing as Super HD. My ISP is Time Warner. I've made no changes in service level with TW. Anyone know if there's been a change in Netflix or a new agreement between Netflix and Time Warner?

I do notice a little bit more detail. This is on a 50 inch plasma and a 55 plasma at 8 and 10 feet away. The skin pores in people are more defined.


What streaming device are you using? I haven't heard anything about a deal from the trades. It maybe just a firmware update. Just because it now shows HD as Super HD doesn't men you are getting the higher bit rate. Try running example short 23.976. Although I get open connect, (I view my 46'' PDP at 8.5 feet away) I don't see much difference even with 720p HD. Although some programing looks just a tad softer.


Ian
post #1407 of 1798
A Roku 2 XS upstairs and a Playstation 3 downstairs (both hard wired with ethernet). I should have checked more carefully before posting. The "Super HD" label is only on the Roku 2 XS, not the PS3. Maybe there was a firmware update on the Roku, since it's on all the time.

I'm picky about picture quality...i still think that HD shows that I was watching a few days ago (Life and Wallander are examples) look sharper now. Of course, this is subjective at best smile.gif ...who knows.

Edit:
"Try running example short 23.976". Can you elaborate?
Edited by KramerTC - 7/7/13 at 4:30pm
post #1408 of 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by KramerTC View Post

A Roku 2 XS upstairs and a Playstation 3 downstairs (both hard wired with ethernet). I should have checked more carefully before posting. The "Super HD" label is only on the Roku 2 XS, not the PS3. Maybe there was a firmware update on the Roku, since it's on all the time.

I'm picky about picture quality...i still think that HD shows that I was watching a few days ago (Life and Wallander are examples) look sharper now. Of course, this is subjective at best smile.gif ...who knows.

Edit:
"Try running example short 23.976". Can you elaborate?

Search "example short 23.976" on Netflix, it's easy to find. The PS3 should be fine with the higher bitrate from what I know, but if your service doesn't deliver the higher bit rate....
post #1409 of 1798
Quote:
Search "example short 23.976" on Netflix, it's easy to find. The PS3 should be fine with the higher bitrate from what I know, but if your service doesn't deliver the higher bit rate....

Speedtest.net reports I get ~ 25Mbs. I'll search for the above and try
post #1410 of 1798
That's not the same as the bitrate you can get from Netflix, try looking at bitrate when using your PS3 with the display feature....otherwise that's just your general internet connection in your test (which likely fluctuates with demand in your area)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
AVS › AVS Forum › Video Components › Video Download Services & Hardware › Netflix adds 3D and Super HD