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Netflix adds 3D and Super HD - Page 7

post #181 of 1798
No, not in the business myself. One of my good friends used to be a system administrator at an ISP and these days runs his own VOIP company. He explained it to me in similarly simplified form a while back.

So, who wants to look at some context for this whole situation...

An interesting comparison would be to look at what another huge content source is doing, say Facebook. According to this article, Facebook is "placing its own servers inside points of presence owned by ISPs to speed to delivery of its content to users". Facebook makes the assertion that they're not trying to form their own CDN but that's really just semantics. A CDN really just describes an entity who houses lots of content and has multiple redundant & distributed connections across the world (so your request for data from Europe doesn't get served from across the world in the US). I suppose if you're not selling the ability to host content on your servers you can say that you're not a CDN, though I think we could just call that a private CDN smile.gif Facebook is likely just saying they're not making a CDN to avoid upsetting the other CDNs they currently rely on, which they claim they will continue to use as well.

The point of looking at Facebook is that it would appear that ISPs are allowing Facebook to install it's equipment on premise without a large public battle and I would guess at no charge to Facebook because of mutual benefit of reducing inter and intra-network traffic by placing the content closer to the demand. If money is changing hands here it would be interesting to know as it would set a bit of precedent for what Netflix is trying to do, but my guess is it is not.

Now let's look at the future and see why your ISP might treat Netflix differently. ISPs can look in their crystal ball and see a future where all they are is a large, dumb pipe and they're terrified. Most major ISPs make most of their enormous profits from their cable television networks, not that their internet service isn't profitable, but it's much lower margin by comparison. If they had to operate just on their internet service operations, well, they'd likely still keep the lights on, but wall street wouldn't be happy.

If we all had ubiquitous gigabit connections at home, what's to stop some new company from from starting their own "cable tv company" that offers IPTV over the public internet (all the major IPTV systems today operate over the intranet of their respective operators, such as UVerse). Sure, there's content licensing deals and protectionist legal constraints, etc that could be prohibitive, but imagine if my new company, we'll call it IdiotBox, offered television to anyone in the US, and I didn't even have to run a cable, you're already paying for the dumb pipe right? Or even better, what if someone like Dish or DIrecTV who already have established relationships with content providers started restructuring their deals to get IPTV distribution rights. It starts small with just a few channels available online from 'anywhere' and then you fast forward a decade and DirecTV is decommissioning satellites and transitioning to an entirely IPTV company.

If you don't think that's a possibility, go over to the SiriusXM website and tell me how much of that webpage is trying to sell a satellite radio and how much it's just selling you a subscription to an internet-based radio service.

What's an ISP to do to stop this catastrophe... well, dragging it's feet deploying faster internet is one way, datacaps that would make it prohibitive to leave your TV on more than a few hours a day is another, exclusive content licensing deals that prohibit IPTV licensing by competitors, oh and they can try and monetize the content that travels over their networks somehow.

ISP already lost (for now) the battle over Net Neutrality, currently killing any ideas of charging their customers for different tiers of internet. They can't outright block Netflix and charge you $2/mo to get it back. By the same token, this prevents them from charging Netflix directly for that privilege either (don't want your customers to pay $2/mo for access, just pay us $1M/mo and it'll be free for all of them). Comcast tried to do an end-run around this at the inter-connect level by charging the CDN specifically for Netflix traffic. The thing to realize is that these ISPs are desperate to find new revenue streams monetizing the internet content which they know will someday be the only thing they provide.

Similarly, you're seeing ISPs roll out more 'managed services' which are essentially just web services that they market directly to their customers. IP Telephone service, IPTV, even these newfangled commercials I keep seeing for 'connected' home security & automation by Comcast. They're hoping to get people used to buying these addons to their internet connection directly from the ISP rather than just paying the flat $40/mo for the big, dumb pipe.

So, not sure where I was going with this, it's early, I'm delirious from hunger and probably not going to proofread this before hitting submit so I'm sure this post was long and winding with no real point smile.gif There are too many facets to this that I didn't have a chance to get into, like how those managed IPTV services by Comcast don't count against datacaps, etc. The key takeaway I guess is that your ISP does not want to be a big dumb pipe, but they know it's coming and they need to figure out where that new revenue is coming from. Should they be allowed to charge content providers for the traffic over the connection you pay for already? That's a public policy debate worth having but at least in Round 1 of ISPs v Net Neutrality, the internet won.

If you've ever looked at your cell phone bill and thought, man, I hardly even talk on the phone, why can't I just pay $35/mo for the data connection and get a VOIP app for the few phone calls I make then you can already see where the idea that a big, dumb pipe is where we're headed and your ISP and your wireless provider are going to do everything they can to slow our path there.

Time for football. Go Niners.
post #182 of 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apostate View Post

That is exactly what Netflix is trying to do... get around those charges. Other CDNs pay ISPs. Netflix CDN (Open Connect) doesn't want to pay. Instead Netflix "offers it free" to ISPs.

If Netflix CDN (Open Connect) offered to pay ISPs like other CDNs and ISPs still refuse then ISPs are problem. But what it sounds like is that Netflix CDN (Open Connect) doesn't want to pay but wants ISPs to let Neflix in free. So of course, ISPs are going to refuse. It's not free for ISPs but would actually cost them money.

If that's actually what they're doing I don't think that they get away with it with any of the MSOs. As a proposal it's completely preposterous: "We know that you get paid for our content coming into your networks by the CDNs. We'll bring the content to you directly, but we won't pay you anything". If that's what they're asking I'd expect TWC to make that very clear in their comments to the press: "The CDNs who currently bring Netflix's content into our networks pay us for the privilege; Netflix wants to bring that same content into our network via Open Connect without paying us anything"--that would get them universal sympathy in the press. The townsfolk would be chasing Netflix with pitch forks and lit torches biggrin.gif. Instead all they say is that Netflix is "seeking unprecedented preferential treatment from ISPs" rolleyes.gif. That's got them indifferent and negative responses.

That quote from one of Cablevision's execs about their connecting to Open Connect ends with "Financial terms of the agreement between Cablevision and Netflix were not disclosed." Time Warner says that they're in negotiations with them. I suspect that they end up with exactly the same arrangement with the ISPs as the CDNs have, but they save money operating their own CDN by not paying the commercial ones a profit on top of that.
post #183 of 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post

That's a good point, however, as I posted before, how many of those customers really feel the need to upgrade to Super HD and 3D? From a marketing stand point I don't believe that the OCP will be a cash cow for Netflix or the ISP in terms of attracting new customers. The success of Netflix streaming is service verses cost.. Many consumers are substituting their TSP services with streaming since it is a cheaper alternative. They're not looking for the best quality or the newest tech, they are looking for value.

I do, I do. I just got a brand spanking new 3D TV. I would like SuperHD and 3D on my Netflix. I've got 50 Mb Fios, more than fast enough I think. But I, a loyal paying customer, cannot get it because my ISP, Verizon, doesn't want to sign up?? That's BS.

I know there are other ways to get 3D but none are easy as having it on Netflix streaming. Redbox? Netflix mail order? Unfortunately there aren't any easy way to rent 3D blu rays... easier to go out and simply buy which can be cost prohibitive real quick.
post #184 of 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

If that's actually what they're doing I don't think that they get away with it with any of the MSOs. As a proposal it's completely preposterous: "We know that you get paid for our content coming into your networks by the CDNs. We'll bring the content to you directly, but we won't pay you anything". If that's what they're asking I'd expect TWC to make that very clear in their comments to the press: "The CDNs who currently bring Netflix's content into our networks pay us for the privilege; Netflix wants to bring that same content into our network via Open Connect without paying us anything"--that would get them universal sympathy in the press. The townsfolk would be chasing Netflix with pitch forks and lit torches biggrin.gif. Instead all they say is that Netflix is "seeking unprecedented preferential treatment from ISPs" rolleyes.gif. That's got them indifferent and negative responses.

That quote from one of Cablevision's execs about their connecting to Open Connect ends with "Financial terms of the agreement between Cablevision and Netflix were not disclosed." Time Warner says that they're in negotiations with them. I suspect that they end up with exactly the same arrangement with the ISPs as the CDNs have, but they save money operating their own CDN by not paying the commercial ones a profit on top of that.

You are right. It's unfair of me to start accusing Netflix of being deadbeat. I don't know the full story. Maybe Netflix simply wanted to be treated like any other CDNs and ISPs are trying to rip them off. Maybe it is ISPs are the ones to blame.

I am just annoyed that I have all the necessary equipment and internet speed to get Super HD and 3D but Netflix says I can't because of my ISP whose decision I have no control over.
post #185 of 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apostate View Post

You are right. It's unfair of me to start accusing Netflix of being deadbeat. I don't know the full story. Maybe Netflix simply wanted to be treated like any other CDNs and ISPs are trying to rip them off. Maybe it is ISPs are the ones to blame.

I am just annoyed that I have all the necessary equipment and internet speed to get Super HD and 3D but Netflix says I can't because of my ISP whose decision I have no control over.


So do I, except for the 3D, and I have the right ISP. However, the difference in quality and addition of 3D is of no consequence to me. Maybe we can swap!



Ian biggrin.gif
post #186 of 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apostate View Post

I do, I do. I just got a brand spanking new 3D TV. I would like SuperHD and 3D on my Netflix. I've got 50 Mb Fios, more than fast enough I think. But I, a loyal paying customer, cannot get it because my ISP, Verizon, doesn't want to sign up?? That's BS.

I know there are other ways to get 3D but none are easy as having it on Netflix streaming. Redbox? Netflix mail order? Unfortunately there aren't any easy way to rent 3D blu rays... easier to go out and simply buy which can be cost prohibitive real quick.

The easiest way to rent 3D BD titles is from www.3d-blurayrental.com

Here is the thread at AVS about them http://www.avsforum.com/t/1322117/http-www-3d-blurayrental-com

I joined them about a month ago and have been very pleased with the service.

Now if I could just get the 3D and SuperHD streams from Netflix I would be very pleased. But since I'm on FiOS like you I am not holding my breath.
post #187 of 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apostate View Post

I do, I do. I just got a brand spanking new 3D TV. I would like SuperHD and 3D on my Netflix. I've got 50 Mb Fios, more than fast enough I think. But I, a loyal paying customer, cannot get it because my ISP, Verizon, doesn't want to sign up?? That's BS.

I know there are other ways to get 3D but none are easy as having it on Netflix streaming. Redbox? Netflix mail order? Unfortunately there aren't any easy way to rent 3D blu rays... easier to go out and simply buy which can be cost prohibitive real quick.

Unfortunately for you, you're in the minority. However as aaront pointed out, there are other sources for 3D, and for the best picture quality and selection, your probably better off with BD.


Ian
post #188 of 1798
I tried using Netflix this evening (Sunday primetime). I generally have not been using it during primetimes for several months. I have Comcast Performance, hardwired to a WDTV live Streaming. There is an Ethernet switch nearby, so I can actually see the traffic.

Tried watching "Enterprise". It tried to go to High/HD, then dropped to Medium. It was also continuously buffering. I paused, and it took over a minute before it stopped buffering. It ran in High for awihle, then dropped back to Medium with the continuous buffering. A speedtest on my computer showed normal speeds (24/4).

Lately, I've mainly been using it on weekend mornings and similar, and it typically ramps up to High/HD pretty fast, and I can see the buffer fill up and go into normal intermittent activity within 45-50 seconds.

I have a Sony BDP-S380 in the bedroom, which displays the datarate it's downloading data at. Normally, it will show 20-24. It's showing about the mid teens now, but it does buffer differently (long pauses, then long data), and is non-adaptive 720p at best. During the speed-test it runs before picking a feed, it was showing about 8-9. I can't tell what quality it actually told. As it is, the bedroom TV is only 19", and it can be hard to impossible to tell High/SD from Medium/HD.
post #189 of 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyross63 View Post

I tried using Netflix this evening (Sunday primetime). I generally have not been using it during primetimes for several months. I have Comcast Performance, hardwired to a WDTV live Streaming. There is an Ethernet switch nearby, so I can actually see the traffic.

Tried watching "Enterprise". It tried to go to High/HD, then dropped to Medium. It was also continuously buffering. I paused, and it took over a minute before it stopped buffering. It ran in High for awihle, then dropped back to Medium with the continuous buffering. A speedtest on my computer showed normal speeds (24/4).

Lately, I've mainly been using it on weekend mornings and similar, and it typically ramps up to High/HD pretty fast, and I can see the buffer fill up and go into normal intermittent activity within 45-50 seconds.

I have a Sony BDP-S380 in the bedroom, which displays the datarate it's downloading data at. Normally, it will show 20-24. It's showing about the mid teens now, but it does buffer differently (long pauses, then long data), and is non-adaptive 720p at best. During the speed-test it runs before picking a feed, it was showing about 8-9. I can't tell what quality it actually told. As it is, the bedroom TV is only 19", and it can be hard to impossible to tell High/SD from Medium/HD.


I have cablevision and rarely have a problem streaming HD. Sometimes I'll check out a movie that's listed as HD, but it will only stream in SD. It's usually an older independent movie. When I switch to a more recent, or popular title, it has no problem streaming in HD. I never experience any buffering. I have two wifi BD players, 3PC's an android and a Roku and I'm running then off a Netgear dual band N-router.


Ian
Edited by mailiang - 1/21/13 at 11:42am
post #190 of 1798
What we do know is that last June Netflix claimed that 5% of their traffic was using Open Connect - since then it doesn't seem many ISPs signed up - so it does seem the ISPs aren't convinced.

It seems that if Netflix could persuade the ISP's to support Open Connect there would be benefit to Neftlix and Netflix's customers - so why do the ISPs resist? Are they protecting their own TV services - or do they not see the benefit to their Internet business - or maybe both.

That said - I am still not clear why Netflix decided to highlight to their customers how dependent (vulnerable) they were on (to) the ISPs by putting a focus on this issue.
post #191 of 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post

That's a good point, however, as I posted before, how many of those customers really feel the need to upgrade to Super HD and 3D? From a marketing stand point I don't believe that the OCP will be a cash cow for Netflix or the ISP in terms of attracting new customers. The success of Netflix streaming is service verses cost.. Many consumers are substituting their TSP services with streaming since it is a cheaper alternative. They're not looking for the best quality or the newest tech, they are looking for value.


Ian

So I am trying to understand your position.

I don't think the intention is that Open Connect is a cash cow or be the vehicle to attract new customers for Netflix (or ISP) - rather it may improve reliability and save overhead costs (not the same as a cash cow as I am sure you know as a former marketing manger) .

In my view Netflix should be investing in content (here they are doing a pretty good job in my opinion), Network infrastructure and reliability (here I am sure Open Connect has a place), improved quality SuperHD (at 5800 kpbs and newer codecs it may be close to 8000 kbps MPEG4 from DirecTV) and new services 3D (not convinced but let me see it and maybe I will like it....)

Alternatively they could try to keep costs down and deliver the current picture quality. However if you pitch that to me as a business plan I don't think I would invest.
post #192 of 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by undecided View Post

So I am trying to understand your position.

I don't think the intention is that Open Connect is a cash cow or be the vehicle to attract new customers for Netflix (or ISP) - rather it may improve reliability and save overhead costs (not the same as a cash cow as I am sure you know as a former marketing manger) .


That was my point. However, those cable isp's that are losing ground to Fios or DTV, and are promoting Open Connect as a value added service, may feel differently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by undecided View Post

In my view Netflix should be investing in content (here they are doing a pretty good job in my opinion), Network infrastructure and reliability (here I am sure Open Connect has a place), improved quality SuperHD (at 5800 kpbs and newer codecs it may be close to 8000 kbps MPEG4 from DirecTV) and new services 3D (not convinced but let me see it and maybe I will like it....)

Alternatively they could try to keep costs down and deliver the current picture quality. However if you pitch that to me as a business plan I don't think I would invest.



If there is no dramatic improvement in picture quality, and the market for 3D is not mainstream, these added value features are welcome, as long as they don't have a significant impact on pricing.


Ian
Edited by mailiang - 1/21/13 at 1:03pm
post #193 of 1798
Start by looking at who is not signing up for Open Connect. They are overwhelmingly cable TV providers who are also ISP's. There is a saying in medicine along the lines of "when you see hoofprints, look for horses, not zebras" In other words, rule out the most obvious reasons first. If I were a cable TV provider and ISP, I certainly would not be inclined to make it easier for my cable customers to switch to a competing service.

I don't think Netflix is trying to highlight any vulnerabilities here. I think everyone knows that cable TV and internet streaming are two competing technologies over the same wire. I think the focus that Netflix is highlighting is why are they having trouble getting certain ISP providers to join Open Connect without sounding paranoid or whining. I'm increasingly starting to think they had no choice to bring this into the open. If they allow Super HD and 3D over the existing networks, this could very well start to overwhelm those networks and that would shine a bad light on Netflix. If anything could be said about Netflix, they should have a pretty good handle on how their data affects the internet as a whole. So far, I have not seen a compelling argument against ISP's using Open Connect except on the anti-competitive aspects on the part of the cable TV companies. Therefore, that is the most likely reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by undecided View Post

What we do know is that last June Netflix claimed that 5% of their traffic was using Open Connect - since then it doesn't seem many ISPs signed up - so it does seem the ISPs aren't convinced.

It seems that if Netflix could persuade the ISP's to support Open Connect there would be benefit to Neftlix and Netflix's customers - so why do the ISPs resist? Are they protecting their own TV services - or do they not see the benefit to their Internet business - or maybe both.

That said - I am still not clear why Netflix decided to highlight to their customers how dependent (vulnerable) they were on (to) the ISPs by putting a focus on this issue.
post #194 of 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruiner View Post

At the very least, will the Win8 HD-supported library match the dedicated-device library?

No. Win 8 app will only run in HD those titles listed as "HD for PC/Mac"
post #195 of 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taperwood View Post

Start by looking at who is not signing up for Open Connect.

Look at who they have singed then look at the list below. Do you really think all the companies are going to sign a deal with Netflix. This list is not complete because my ISP (Morris Broadband) is not on the list and I have no idea how many others are missing.

IMO, Netflix is discriminating against some of us simply because they are providing access to content for some and not to others yet they charge us the same price.

  • Advanced Cable Communications
  • Alameda Power and Telecom
  • Allegiance Communications
  • Armstrong Group of Companies
  • Astound Broadband
  • Bend Broadband
  • Bermuda CableVision
  • Blue Ridge Communications
  • Bresnan Communications
  • Bright House Networks
  • Buckeye Cable System/Buckeye Cablevision/Erie County Cablevision (all owned by Block Communications)
  • CableOne
  • Cablevision
  • Cebridge Connections
  • Charter Communications
  • Choice Cable TV
  • Coast Communications Cable Co., Inc. Coastcommunications.com
  • Comcast Corporation
  • CommuniComm Services
  • Cox Communications
  • Crestview Cable
  • Cable Systems Incorporated
  • Fairpoint Communications
  • Full Channel
  • General Communications
  • Graceba Total Communications
  • Haefele TV Inc.
  • Hometown Cable
  • Insight Communications
  • Jet Broadband
  • Kuhn Communications
  • Lexcom Communications
  • Liberty Cablevision
  • Massillon Cable TV
  • Mediacom
  • MetroCast Cablevision
  • Midcontinent Communications
  • Midtel Cable TV
  • Millennium Digital Media
  • Muscatine Power and Water
  • Nelson Cable
  • New Wave Communications
  • Northland Cable Television
  • Patriot Media
  • Qwest Communications
  • RCN Corporation
  • Seaport Capital (includes Conversent Communications, Everest Cable, MCV Broadband, Metrocast Communications, Mid-Missouri Telephone and Otelco Holdings)
  • Service Electric
  • Spring City Cable
  • Suddenlink Communications
  • SureWest
  • Susquehanna Cable
  • Tele-Media Corporation
  • Time Warner Cable
  • Trinity Cable
  • Truvista Communications
  • US Cable
  • Viacom
  • Verizon FiOS
  • Wamego Television Communications
  • WB Cable
  • WOW! Internet Cable Phone
post #196 of 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyross63 View Post

Tried watching "Enterprise". It tried to go to High/HD, then dropped to Medium. It was also continuously buffering. I paused, and it took over a minute before it stopped buffering. It ran in High for awihle, then dropped back to Medium with the continuous buffering. A speedtest on my computer showed normal speeds (24/4).
.

Who cares about Super HD & 3D if people on fast connections can't even maintain a HD stream. I too have this problem sometimes and it is quite annoying. It has been good the past couple of weeks since 2.11 update to the PS3 came out however I do sometimes see the constant buffer too on certain programs. I have my modem and router in my room with my PS3 hardwired. If it drops down to Medium/HD with its newer bitrate that uses less bandwidth then I don't even want Super HD as it will most likely never stay at Super HD.
post #197 of 1798
IMO, all of this is just more Netflix smoke and mirrors. Remember when they would not ante up for Starz (Disney, Sony Pictures, etc.) and lost that content. In their statements to the press they said it was no big deal because Starz represented such a small part of their streaming. A short time later they turn around and try to make a big deal of signing Disney. IOW, it was a big deal to lose Starz and they had to pay a pretty penny to get Disney.
post #198 of 1798

^ The vast majority of films that Starz brought to them weren't from Disney, and the Sony pictures were removed long before the Feb 2012 departure (Sony invoked a clause in their contract with Starz which forced Starz to not include their content in any sub-leasing deal if the outlet purchasing shared rights exceeded a certain number of subscribers. Netflix's problem is that Sony counted NF's non streaming subscribers along with the streaming ones. That's why they wanted to split into two separate companies, to prevent their total subscriber base from being used to inflate prices by the studios. The Disney pictures were the most valuable asset of the Starz Play package, but it's not like there were 100s of them available to us. There were roughly 20-ish newer/recent Disney films, several animated films not in the Disney Vault, plus older live action ones from their Touchstone label.

But the value of the overall Starz Play content has been overblown by many media reporters/bloggers in the frenzied rush to bash Netflix. And the new deal directly with Disney is better for them. as it will give them more than what they were getting thru the middleman Starz. Remember, Netflix will get Disney theatricals during the pay TV window-coming right after DVD release. Not months later after they debut on Starz.


Edited by Westly-C - 1/21/13 at 9:11pm
post #199 of 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaioTheBrain View Post

No. Win 8 app will only run in HD those titles listed as "HD for PC/Mac"

Which are the great majority of titles with HD encodes. If the title is restricted to 720p on the embedded players it will almost certainly be restricted to SD on PCs. If you can play 1080p in the embedded players you can probably play 1080p in the Win 8 app.
post #200 of 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taperwood View Post

Start by looking at who is not signing up for Open Connect. They are overwhelmingly cable TV providers who are also ISP's.

Are there actually cable providers out there who are not ISPs? All of the cable providers who signed up have to be ISPs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reddice View Post

Who cares about Super HD & 3D if people on fast connections can't even maintain a HD stream.

This is another justification for Open Connect. With their own CDNs, they have much greater control over that sort of problem, and if a cable provider takes any of their storage cache appliances into their networks there is a strong chance that the content you request won't even travel over the Internet backbone at all.
post #201 of 1798
I don't know what Wendell is getting at with that list. I was addressing Undecided's questions about why I thought the Cable TV/ISP's are not signing on and tried to use the simplest and most obvious reason why they are not, but I guess that's just not clever enough around here. My ISP (CenturyLink) is not signed on either and they are not a cable TV provider but they do bundle satellite. This anger directed at Netflix is misguided, in my opinion. People are not seeing the forest for the trees. I will try one more time: Your ISP has a cash cow in delivering cable TV. Why on earth would they do anything that would jeopardize that?

Apparently ISP's do what Netflix is asking them to do all the time, if prior posts on this subject are to be believed, but somehow Netflix is screwing its customers. Unless someone can come up with a better reason why all these ISP's are not signing on, I will stick with the argument that cable TV ISP's do not want to lose yet more customers to Netflix or other streaming services and they will do whatever it takes to prevent that from happening. Until then, I have nothing further to add to this conversation.
post #202 of 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taperwood View Post

Your ISP has a cash cow in delivering cable TV. Why on earth would they do anything that would jeopardize that?

That makes no sense, do you know of any ISP that is blocking you from getting Netflix? As I said the Netflix SuperHD & 3D fiasco is just smoke & mirrors!!
post #203 of 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taperwood View Post

My ISP (CenturyLink) is not signed on either and they are not a cable TV provider but they do bundle satellite. This anger directed at Netflix is misguided, in my opinion. People are not seeing the forest for the trees. I will try one more time: Your ISP has a cash cow in delivering cable TV. Why on earth would they do anything that would jeopardize that?

CenturyLink bundles satellite to try to offer the same bundles as the ISP/Cable companies. Verizon used to do the same with DirecTV (maybe they still do).

I don't see why that would stop CenturyLink using Open Connect if they thought it was to their (and their customers) benefit.

As Wendell says I don't see any of the ISPs (including those with TV services) blocking Netflix or the Netflix SuperHD/3D streams.
post #204 of 1798
What equipment shall have working App for this?
post #205 of 1798
Is this crazy or not.

Can anyone give me an example of another service provider limiting the quality of content you get dependent on which ISP you have.

We know Netflix is the 800 gorilla on the streaming side with various reports in 2011 claiming that Netflix was 30% of the US internet traffic at peak periods.

Someone (hopefully) is making money on this. If there was no Netflix then the ISPs would find it harder to sell their higher speeds. Yes I am sure they want to sell their own TV services - but Comcast is fine selling me High Speed Internet while I get my TV from DirecTV and Neftlix/Vudu. Comcast is not limiting any content I get.

Clearly Netflix has decided to make Open Connect a battle they want to fight with the ISPs. Yes I am unhappy they put me their customer in the middle of this fight.....
post #206 of 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoro View Post

What equipment shall have working App for this?

See this.

That "Blu-Ray Players and Smart TV's with existing Netflix 1080p support" is a pretty damn large list by this point.
post #207 of 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by undecided View Post

Clearly Netflix has decided to make Open Connect a battle they want to fight with the ISPs. Yes I am unhappy they put me their customer in the middle of this fight.....

Dude--chillax. It's just not that important. Either Netflix will get the major ISPs to sign up for Open Connect or they will eventually send Super HD, through their currently contracted CDNs. Improved service which they refuse to deliver to the great majority of their customer base is not an improvement at all. If the ISPs tell them to go screw themselves I think that they'll come off looking worse than the ISPs.

Where they miscalculate is in thinking that any really significant segment of their streaming service customer base will ever give a damn about Super HD. Probably more would care about 3D, but most of those would be unwilling to subscribe to the required >12 Mbps network service.

I begin to agree with Wendell--this is kind of a fiasco. The sad thing is that I think that Open Connect is a good idea, benefiting Netflix, its streaming service customers and the ISPs. Trying to coerce the ISPs into accepting it is a mistake.
post #208 of 1798
Unless Netflix splashes in big letters on your devices/screen that you "Don't qualify for Super HD service, please contact your ISP" (or something to that effect) I doubt most of their user base will know about their Super HD or 3D offerings anyways.
Edited by DaveFi - 1/22/13 at 6:48am
post #209 of 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveFi View Post

I doubt most of their user base will know about their Super HD or 3D offerings anyways.

I find it interesting that on the drop down pane under Watch Instantly they have a HD selection but no SuperHD or 3D selection.
post #210 of 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveFi View Post

Unless Netflix splashes in big letters on your devices/screen that you "Don't qualify for Super HD service, please contact your ISP" (or something to that effect) I doubt most of their user base will know about their Super HD or 3D offerings anyways.

But, as you can see in this thread and elsewhere in the internet, the ones who do know about SuperHD and 3D are the ones who are/will be the most vocal and activist about it.

I believe Netflix really screwed up with its approach. Let's parse Netflix's tactic. Netflix has to please two "audience" in order to improve its financial condition: the customers and ISPs.

Its current tactic of holding SuperHD and 3D hostage from its customers in order to leverage/manipulate them against ISPs is short-sighted.

Are the ISPs willing/pleased? Doesn't seem like it. Are the customers pleased? No. There obviously is a lot of criticism from both the customers and industry regarding Netflix's tactic. Why would you want to tick off any of your customers?

Now if Netflix simply gave SuperHD and 3D to customers who meets the criteria, what would happen?

Will the customers be pleased? Yes unless the PQ is not as promised. Then Netflix can tell them to petition/complain ISPs,explaining the situation in its FAQs or something.

Will the ISPs pleased? No, since the traffic will shoot up. ISPs will have no choice but to join Open Connect in order to alleviate the resulting slowdown or its customers will complain.There is no need to manipulate the customers blatantly as Netflix is doing now. It just makes Netflix look bad. ISPs do not need Netflix's help in looking bad. They are doing it fine (bad) all by themselves.
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