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Official Wii U discussion thread. - Page 11

post #301 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Crapload of games are rumored to be skipping the Wii U, with no real reasons given. The anti Nintendo bias in the gaming industry as a whole is just insane.

here is your reason...
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/03/29/unreal-engine-4-frostbite-3-will-not-support-wii-u

this will really hurt the whole WiiU is "next gen" argument.....


from article
When someone asks if Unreal Engine 4 will work on Wii U, Epic co-founder Mark Rein bursts out laughing. "No," he says.

Following an Unreal Engine presentation at 2013's Game Developer Conference, Rein clarifies his response to IGN, still laughing, "I just laugh at the question...Unreal Engine 4, we're not PlayStation 3, Xbox 360, or Wii U. It's next-gen technology. That's what we're aiming for."
post #302 of 1281
The Bit Trip Runner 2 patch is out, just start the game and it will download. I've experienced zero crashes on closing the game since the patch
post #303 of 1281
This is what I think of when people claim the Wii U isn't "next gen".



Yeah "next gen" is technically a term instead of a word... anyhow Next Generation only indicates that it's the successor of the previous generation.
post #304 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by benjamin-benjami View Post

here is your reason...
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/03/29/unreal-engine-4-frostbite-3-will-not-support-wii-u

this will really hurt the whole WiiU is "next gen" argument.....


from article
When someone asks if Unreal Engine 4 will work on Wii U, Epic co-founder Mark Rein bursts out laughing. "No," he says.

Following an Unreal Engine presentation at 2013's Game Developer Conference, Rein clarifies his response to IGN, still laughing, "I just laugh at the question...Unreal Engine 4, we're not PlayStation 3, Xbox 360, or Wii U. It's next-gen technology. That's what we're aiming for."

No wonder Cliffy left, he was a major Nintendo fan and this might have pushed him over the edge.

To bust out laughing is just unprofessional, especially when the PS4 is only 3-5x stronger than the Wii U (and the 720 is slated to be 50% the PS4) it just doesn't add up...
post #305 of 1281
Kotaku sad "The room erupted with laughter." Not just Rein. I don't understand all the anti- Wii U sentiment personally. Do developers see Nintendo as competiton for game sales?
post #306 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by |Tch0rT| View Post

This is what I think of when people claim the Wii U isn't "next gen".



Yeah "next gen" is technically a term instead of a word... anyhow Next Generation only indicates that it's the successor of the previous generation.

really, playing word games.. everyone knows what it is referencing..
post #307 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfD View Post

Kotaku sad "The room erupted with laughter." Not just Rein. I don't understand all the anti- Wii U sentiment personally. Do developers see Nintendo as competiton for game sales?

i don't think it is "anti-WiiU" (now before i type this, some of my fav games were on the wii and i am sure eventually i will buy a wiiU), i think it is just looking at a situation and thinking "when are they going to get it"? I mean they are headed down the exact same path they did with gamecube. I mean just something simple as playing games on the internet was close to impossible on the wii, etc.. Sometimes it seems like think regardless of what we do people will buy because of zelda, mario, etc.. (i am guilty of that for sure, that will be the only reason i buy). But when one of the two biggest games to come out this fall (battlefield 4) says the game isn't coming to WiiU and it is a brand new console, you have to wonder what multiplatform games will even come out over the life of the console and if they do how big of a downgrade will the port be?
post #308 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by benjamin-benjami View Post

really, playing word games.. everyone knows what it is referencing..

Call it what you will but people tend to associate Next Gen with "wowee zowee look at them there fancy pants graphics!", not it's literal meaning and stupid arguments saying the Wii U should be considered part of the Wii, 360, and PS3 generation because it won't compete graphically with the PS4 and whatever the next Xbox will be called.

Anyway has anyone seen the Kickstarter project for Shovel Knight?

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/yachtclubgames/shovel-knight

I'm digging the retro feel of it. I hit them up for the $15 tier so I can play it on my Wii U.
post #309 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

No kinder to Sony?

3DS sells 3.6 million month 1, media declares it doomed. Vita finally breaks 1 million after 4 months, media declares it is doing just fine. Wii U sells 1.9 million in 43 days, media declares it a disaster.

There is definitely a double standard for Nintendo, it has existed for a long time now, they don't call it as it is, they flat out downplay any positive Nintendo news.

Nintendo did everything right for Third Parties with the Wii U, and got spit on for it, Sony does the same and they get praised left and right.

I yet to understand how you continue to blame everyone with these conspiracies and not Nintendo themselves. They put themselves in the position they are in just like MS did with RROD and Sony with Vita. Companies have to overcome and this is Nintendo's. At the end of the day bills have to get paid and if a company doesn't see an investment they move their resources to other projects. People may be saying that Nintendo is doomed. Hell I said I didn't have confidence in it leading up to launch and so far it is doing as I expected it to do. It is dealing with the same issue the Wii had and it doesn't have the same impact the Wii U has. If you want you can blame the consumers who have a choice to care or not. But trying to blame forums and websites and GDC that doesn't even reach mainstream consumers walking into Wal-Mart and Best Buy is just simply ridiculous IMO.

A product isn't appealing to both mass and third-party is afraid to take a chance.

None of this should take away of anyone who is enjoying the system. They decided to launch with the specs and promote what they thought would be a home run. It isn't working in mass at this point.
post #310 of 1281
I'm gonna have to partially agree with pen on this. I agree on blogs and the media focusing on the negatives of nintendo for the views. I'm not sure about a conspiracy though...

I know a lot of people think that sony and microsoft are untouchable right now. But look at the vita. What a piece of crap. It has beautiful hardware but virtually no games that are worth it. The 3ds beats it hands down even with inferior hardware. Nerds get so caught up on hardware specs that its sad. It's like big specs fill some void in their lives.

And as far as Microsoft goes, they have a reputation for sucking major ass at anything hardware. The first batch of 360s were arguably the most failure prone consoles ever to be released. I'm betting their "next gen" console will have a bumpy road too.

I still have faith in the wii U. As soon as their games come in, the sales will pick up. It is far from a failed system. That would be the vita.
post #311 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitch619 View Post

I'm gonna have to partially agree with pen on this. I agree on blogs and the media focusing on the negatives of nintendo for the views. I'm not sure about a conspiracy though...

I know a lot of people think that sony and microsoft are untouchable right now. But look at the vita. What a piece of crap. It has beautiful hardware but virtually no games that are worth it. The 3ds beats it hands down even with inferior hardware. Nerds get so caught up on hardware specs that its sad. It's like big specs fill some void in their lives.

And as far as Microsoft goes, they have a reputation for sucking major ass at anything hardware. The first batch of 360s were arguably the most failure prone consoles ever to be released. I'm betting their "next gen" console will have a bumpy road too.

I still have faith in the wii U. As soon as their games come in, the sales will pick up. It is far from a failed system. That would be the vita.

Both the Wii U and Vita are headed down the same road - a niche device. The Wii U will serve the Nintendo faithful, and the ability to play purely on the gamepad is the killer app. Likewise, the Vita serves the Sony faithful, can function exactly as a Wii U gamepad for the PS4, and is quickly becoming a haven for indie games. I don't think the Vita (or 3DS) ever had a chance at being huge like the DS. Not with iOS around.

I just think the stakes are way higher for the Wii U. The vita could probably survive even without retail games, purely on small digital releases and as a PS4 extender, as long as the hardware itself is profitable. If the Wii U doesn't pick up, it doesn't really serve a purpose as an ancillary device. Maybe target dedicates a sad little corner to the 3-5 first party releases every year. But then aren't they better off just throwing in the towel on the Wii U, and coming back out with something that can stand toe to toe with everyone else?
post #312 of 1281
Looking at the hardware in the PS4 and 720, the Wii U isn't drasically underpowered. (a little lacking in RAM though) A fairly large chunk of that added power will go toward 1080p resolution, which allows the Wii U to run mildly scaled back ports at 720p. (Next Gen exclusive games will target the weaker 720, which means the Wii U can run scaled down ports with little effort) The gap just isn't that big this time around.

And with the 3DS smashing all sales records for gaming hardware, there is no worry there. It also has an amazing lineup of games out, and a bunch coming soon. (including Pokemon, which will boost sales even further)


Sony's biggest issue with the Vita is the complete lack of exclusives. Their cross buy system hut more than it helped. Another issue is every game worth getting (save for Persona) has been free on PS+ for all members, not just Vita owners. I have 6 free games waiting for me when I buy one. It also doesn't help that retail stores are not really carrying the Vita anymore. (my local Walmarts have zero consoles and less than 2 shelves for the games, but they still sell PSP hardware...)
post #313 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Looking at the hardware in the PS4 and 720, the Wii U isn't drasically underpowered. (a little lacking in RAM though) A fairly large chunk of that added power will go toward 1080p resolution, which allows the Wii U to run mildly scaled back ports at 720p. (Next Gen exclusive games will target the weaker 720, which means the Wii U can run scaled down ports with little effort) The gap just isn't that big this time around.

And with the 3DS smashing all sales records for gaming hardware, there is no worry there. It also has an amazing lineup of games out, and a bunch coming soon. (including Pokemon, which will boost sales even further)


Sony's biggest issue with the Vita is the complete lack of exclusives. Their cross buy system hut more than it helped. Another issue is every game worth getting (save for Persona) has been free on PS+ for all members, not just Vita owners. I have 6 free games waiting for me when I buy one. It also doesn't help that retail stores are not really carrying the Vita anymore. (my local Walmarts have zero consoles and less than 2 shelves for the games, but they still sell PSP hardware...)

Who's going to make those ports though? UE4 isn't supporting Wii U (at least not without a headache). Frostbite won't. Crytek certainly isn't going to be targeting the low end. Maybe this year and next you'll have a little crossover, since they'll be porting the big stuff to 360/PS3. Once that dries up, unless the Wii U has proven itself to sell games on par with PS4/nextbox, they're just not going to bother. If a room full of developers bursts out laughing at the thought of it, isn't that kind of all you need to know?
post #314 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Who's going to make those ports though? UE4 isn't supporting Wii U (at least not without a headache). Frostbite won't. Crytek certainly isn't going to be targeting the low end. Maybe this year and next you'll have a little crossover, since they'll be porting the big stuff to 360/PS3. Once that dries up, unless the Wii U has proven itself to sell games on par with PS4/nextbox, they're just not going to bother. If a room full of developers bursts out laughing at the thought of it, isn't that kind of all you need to know?

If the 360 can run it, the Wii U can do it without breaking a sweat. That unprofessional laughter just proves that the industry has it out for Nintendo. There is no conspiracy, it is right out in the open now.
post #315 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

If the 360 can run it, the Wii U can do it without breaking a sweat. That unprofessional laughter just proves that the industry has it out for Nintendo. There is no conspiracy, it is right out in the open now.

So if the press is just trolling for page views....what do you think the developers grudge is against Nintendo?
post #316 of 1281
The whole room "erupting with laughter" is in the article by kotaku. I trust them as much as fox news
post #317 of 1281
Before all the Nintendo naysayers claim the Wii U is Dooommmeedd and they will fall they way of Sega, let's wait until Mario 3D, Zelda, Metroid, Pikmin, Smash Bros., Xenoblade, Donkey Kong, Pokemon, Mario Kart etc. etc. gets released. This system will sell like crazy once Nintendo's 1st Party Big Hitters start getting released. Lets not forget that the PS3's 1st year was Pure Trash (software wise) and it ended up doing very well. Nintendo will be fine and we who have Wii U's will have plenty of games to play. Any "Hardcore Gamer" knows that Ninty is for 1st Party and Sony, MSFT, PC is for 3rd Party Graphic intense games. I have a Wii U , High End PC and will more than likely get a PS4 IF Sony integrates it correctly with the Vita (which I have and LOVE). I could careless if Ninty gets major 3rd party support. That's not why I bought a Wii U.
post #318 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

If the 360 can run it, the Wii U can do it without breaking a sweat. That unprofessional laughter just proves that the industry has it out for Nintendo. There is no conspiracy, it is right out in the open now.

i thought once i got away from my gun forum i wouldn't hear anymore conspiracy theories. I can see it now, a shadow person calls all the major media and game developers and tells them "we must sink nintendo", someone asks "why", and the figure says "just because". So lets make this easy, if you were a game developer and your last game sold

40,000 at place A
35,000 at place B
15,000 at place C
under 5,000 at place D

where would you spend your time and money on your next game?
post #319 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by benjamin-benjami View Post

So lets make this easy, if you were a game developer and your last game sold

40,000 at place A
35,000 at place B
15,000 at place C
under 5,000 at place D

where would you spend your time and money on your next game?

Fair enough for game developers who are short-sighted and are happy with the status quo. For developers who are looking at growing instead of hanging on, maybe they'd spend their time and money looking at the fastest growing platform that's an open range for games and decide "I need to understand what's happening at place D, get smarter in my approach, and make a move while the opportunity is there."

Game makers are explainably risk-averse, but, creative though they are with content, their business model is backwards-stupid. Magazines and Web sites that "follow" the industry are stuck in the 20th Century and mimic the conservative, retrograde thinking that screwed us all royally in the last years of the '00 decade.

Here's a chance for them to do some new things, and the best they can do is shovel some old $#!t into incompetent ports, claiming it's the hardware's fault, when it's their lack of initiative, lack of innovation, lack of comprehension of the platform, and lack of ability to exploit the hardware that is the real problem.

But "Oh, let's not say we're lazy, out of ideas, or out of touch; let's blame the hardware. Look at how we're laughing at it. Stupid platform." They're laughing at their own stupidity, and they don't even know it.
post #320 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by filecat13 View Post

Fair enough for game developers who are short-sighted and are happy with the status quo. For developers who are looking at growing instead of hanging on, maybe they'd spend their time and money looking at the fastest growing platform that's an open range for games and decide "I need to understand what's happening at place D, get smarter in my approach, and make a move while the opportunity is there."

Game makers are explainably risk-averse, but, creative though they are with content, their business model is backwards-stupid. Magazines and Web sites that "follow" the industry are stuck in the 20th Century and mimic the conservative, retrograde thinking that screwed us all royally in the last years of the '00 decade.

Here's a chance for them to do some new things, and the best they can do is shovel some old $#!t into incompetent ports, claiming it's the hardware's fault, when it's their lack of initiative, lack of innovation, lack of comprehension of the platform, and lack of ability to exploit the hardware that is the real problem.

But "Oh, let's not say we're lazy, out of ideas, or out of touch; let's blame the hardware. Look at how we're laughing at it. Stupid platform." They're laughing at their own stupidity, and they don't even know it.

so what do you say to the developers that have tried and failed, those numbers are real, so if you try something and it doesn't sell at all, you are just supposed to do it again?? i didn't post one isolated example, there is developer after developer that tried on the wii and the sales were abysmal..
post #321 of 1281
Success on PS3 now doesn't mean success on PS4 next year. Same thing with failure on the Wii.

The millions of PS3 users, many of whom bought consoles last christmas, aren't going to jump ship and spend $500+ on the next big thing which supports none of their existing games or peripherals. Ubisoft's making Watch dogs for PS3 and PS4. Why bother with an upgrade when "next gen" games still run on old hardware? People are going to make the same snarky comments and say they're "waiting for a price drop" because with the PS3 Slim and black xbox, they've come to expect one.
Edited by moothemagiccow - 3/30/13 at 7:26pm
post #322 of 1281
Nintendo may not realize it, but the 3DS price drop may have really screwed over future launches for everyone. The Vita is just the first victim, the Wii U is becoming the second, and if Nintendo gives the Wii U an official drop soon, they will make it seem like a year one price drop is the new normal. That would really damage the PS4 and 720 launches. People would hold out for that first price drop more than ever.
post #323 of 1281
If that's actually the case, I assume their marketing departments will pick up on it and that they will plan their pricing strategy accordingly in the future.
post #324 of 1281

In case anyone doubted that bad Wiiu news gets hits and comments.
post #325 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by moothemagiccow View Post


In case anyone doubted that bad Wiiu news gets hits and comments.

I don't think anyone ever doubted that.
post #326 of 1281
Sorry, but isn't almost every console launch pretty ****** for like, the first year or so? Am I misremembering this? I can't imagine the incrementally better (to the general public) graphics and rub-controller of the PS4 are going to immediately set sales charts afire either, not right away (withholding judgment on the 720 until we know what it's about). Everyone calm down.
post #327 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by benjamin-benjami View Post

i don't think it is "anti-WiiU" (now before i type this, some of my fav games were on the wii and i am sure eventually i will buy a wiiU), i think it is just looking at a situation and thinking "when are they going to get it"? I mean they are headed down the exact same path they did with gamecube. I mean just something simple as playing games on the internet was close to impossible on the wii, etc.. Sometimes it seems like think regardless of what we do people will buy because of zelda, mario, etc.. (i am guilty of that for sure, that will be the only reason i buy). But when one of the two biggest games to come out this fall (battlefield 4) says the game isn't coming to WiiU and it is a brand new console, you have to wonder what multiplatform games will even come out over the life of the console and if they do how big of a downgrade will the port be?

I doubt most people have to wonder. I doubt most people bought the Wii U to be their console to play the next Battlefield 4 or Cod or GTA or etc. It's been how many years now since a Nintendo console got big third party support? Almost 20?

At this point Nintendo needs to keep catering to indie devs to supplement their unique titles like Zombi U, Lego City Undercover, Wonderful 101, Bayonetta 2, and the usual Nintendo big hitters. Free Unity 4 pro, html 5 and java support, conversion for ios apps are all a good start in that department.
post #328 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by benjamin-benjami View Post

so what do you say to the developers that have tried and failed, those numbers are real, so if you try something and it doesn't sell at all, you are just supposed to do it again?? i didn't post one isolated example, there is developer after developer that tried on the wii and the sales were abysmal..

That's a reasonable response, but that's not the way to succeed. You're right that if you try something and it fails, you shouldn't keep repeating the same mistake. However, there's more than one possible response to lack of success.

1. I worked hard but the people are incapable of understanding what I did and rejected it, so I don't want to try again.
2. I worked hard but the platform is inferior and degrades my work so people rejected it, so I don't want to try again.
3. I worked hard but missed the mark, and I don't want to try again.
4. I made too many assumptions and thought it would be easy, but I don't understand how to be successful with those people, and I don't want to try again.
5. I made an inferior port of a product that's been out a while and skipped a few things because I thought the Nintendo crowd would be grateful, but they stiffed me, so I don't want to try again.
6. I am okay with my current sales and distribution, and I'm not really interested in pursuing a hard-to-crack market for potential growth, so I'm not going to try again.
7. I worked hard but the people didn't get it and didn't want it; therefore, I need to understand better what they do want and will buy before I try again.
8. I worked hard but not smart, so I need to develop to the strengths of the platform if I want to create a compelling experience for the users when I try again.
9. I made an inferior port of an old game and no one was grateful, so I need to make better ports and make them sooner with a platform-specific hook when I try again.
10. I want to grow my business and have three solid revenue streams, so I need to appreciate the "culture" of each platform, learn what succeeds there, and stop living in the 20th Century when I try again.
11. I....

Well, the number of responses is long, and somewhere between "I tried and failed, so I quit!" and "I'm going to keep doing the same thing over and over until I'm broke or have a hit!" is the balance point of learning and adapting in order to survive and thrive.
post #329 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by filecat13 View Post

That's a reasonable response, but that's not the way to succeed. You're right that if you try something and it fails, you shouldn't keep repeating the same mistake. However, there's more than one possible response to lack of success.

1. I worked hard but the people are incapable of understanding what I did and rejected it, so I don't want to try again.
2. I worked hard but the platform is inferior and degrades my work so people rejected it, so I don't want to try again.
3. I worked hard but missed the mark, and I don't want to try again.
4. I made too many assumptions and thought it would be easy, but I don't understand how to be successful with those people, and I don't want to try again.
5. I made an inferior port of a product that's been out a while and skipped a few things because I thought the Nintendo crowd would be grateful, but they stiffed me, so I don't want to try again.
6. I am okay with my current sales and distribution, and I'm not really interested in pursuing a hard-to-crack market for potential growth, so I'm not going to try again.
7. I worked hard but the people didn't get it and didn't want it; therefore, I need to understand better what they do want and will buy before I try again.
8. I worked hard but not smart, so I need to develop to the strengths of the platform if I want to create a compelling experience for the users when I try again.
9. I made an inferior port of an old game and no one was grateful, so I need to make better ports and make them sooner with a platform-specific hook when I try again.
10. I want to grow my business and have three solid revenue streams, so I need to appreciate the "culture" of each platform, learn what succeeds there, and stop living in the 20th Century when I try again.
11. I....

Well, the number of responses is long, and somewhere between "I tried and failed, so I quit!" and "I'm going to keep doing the same thing over and over until I'm broke or have a hit!" is the balance point of learning and adapting in order to survive and thrive.

On the other hand, maybe Einstein was on to something when he said "The definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Maybe in a world where Nintendo is the only console what you're saying would be more applicable, but many have simply determined that the pastures are greener on other platforms.
post #330 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by benjamin-benjami View Post

here is your reason...
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/03/29/unreal-engine-4-frostbite-3-will-not-support-wii-u

this will really hurt the whole WiiU is "next gen" argument.....


from article
When someone asks if Unreal Engine 4 will work on Wii U, Epic co-founder Mark Rein bursts out laughing. "No," he says.

Following an Unreal Engine presentation at 2013's Game Developer Conference, Rein clarifies his response to IGN, still laughing, "I just laugh at the question...Unreal Engine 4, we're not PlayStation 3, Xbox 360, or Wii U. It's next-gen technology. That's what we're aiming for."

Take this as "good news for Wii U" if you will.....quoted link as since been updated over @ IGN.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/03/29/unreal-engine-4-frostbite-3-will-not-support-wii-u

Dude from Epic walked back his previous comments. Apparently Unreal 4 WILL run on Wii U, as well as the current gen Sony/MS consoles. And browsers & mobile, too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by engadget.com 
Speaking with Engadget, Epic's Mark Rein doubled back on his previous comments to IGN concerning Wii U and Unreal Engine 4. "If someone wants to take Unreal Engine 4 and ship a game on Wii U, they can," Rein said. "If they wanna ship an Unreal Engine 4 game on Xbox 360, they could make it happen." The scalable nature of Unreal Engine means we'll see it running in browsers and mobile in the future -- and maybe current-gen consoles as well. Why Rein denied it so aggressively in the first place isn't certain.

I guess the bolded bit can be used to support the "devs hate Nintendo" conspiracy theory. wink.gif
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