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The "Official" Crowson Tactile Motion Actuators Thread. - Page 5

post #121 of 255
Heris the seating.
post #122 of 255
Very Nice looking Set-up, gpmbc!cool.gif Thanks for sharing!smile.gif
post #123 of 255
Thx Bunga99! Everyone sharing made me take the plunge with confidence. Looking at the caliber of some user set ups I felt they wouldn't want to add to a nice set up with something that would detract from the experience.
post #124 of 255
A few questions guys that is bothering me.

1 - Even though I have a very flat graph below 50 hz, how much do you guys think it effects the motion when I'm driving transducer from avr?
2 - Does it effect the bass? In other words, does avr split the frequency in between subs and transducer? If Yes then my most likely my subs are not producing as much bass they were producing before transducer?

thx.
post #125 of 255
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post

A few questions guys that is bothering me.

1 - Even though I have a very flat graph below 50 hz, how much do you guys think it effects the motion when I'm driving transducer from avr?
Best way to tell is to shut Audyssey off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post

2 - Does it effect the bass? In other words, does avr split the frequency in between subs and transducer? If Yes then my most likely my subs are not producing as much bass they were producing before transducer?
Nope. It sends the same signal at the same level to both the subwoofer and the transducer.
post #126 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Hi Sheraz,

You bring up a great point. The shaker will "couple" to the whole chair best at the strongest part of the chair. My transducers are not underneath a "platform", but they are underneath a very substantial and solid part of my chairs:



They are underneath the rail right where it connects to the back frame. Also, there is a crossbrace just in front of them. This allows for transmission of the shaking through the whole chair.

Craig

My point was more towards having transducer completely covered by one seat instead of sharing with two seats. In other words, If you share it, you get half of effect on one seat. Agreed that it will be enough vibration but would it be the same effect though? When I had it in the middle of side, I was getting good enough motion but the effects were not same. After providing the platform, I could get different effect. I believe that the crowson is not just shaking the top surface. Sometimes it makes different motion. Here are a few examples.
1 - Dark Knight: When they are firing ropes to tie down the halicopter.
2 - Finding Nemo: When the bird is taking Nemo father to nemo (also included in Best Bas Demo Disk). In that scene, the bird makes a 45 degree angle to change direction and there is a very quick and short movememnt produced by transducer. That movement doesn't feel like a vibration but more like (whoppp).

If you can install a wide enough piece of wood in one of your seat in the corner and then try some of your favorite scene, you might like the effects more as compared to your current settings. Or, you can just come by at my place and experience it :-).
post #127 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Best way to tell is to shut Audyssey off.
Nope. It sends the same signal at the same level to both the subwoofer and the transducer.
Thank you so much Craig. That's a relief.
post #128 of 255
Sheraz, do you have a pic of the bottom of your chair? When I address my other seat it's not as straight forward of an installation so I'll need to be creative.
post #129 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post

Sheraz, do you have a pic of the bottom of your chair? When I address my other seat it's not as straight forward of an installation so I'll need to be creative.
I posted pic in this post here http://www.avsforum.com/t/1450832/the-official-crowson-tactile-motion-actuators-thread/90#post_23864627 and I placed transducer under top left side of chair (in the image). Since image is upside down, its top left. But, if you put the seat down then it becomes rear left.
post #130 of 255
Thx
post #131 of 255
Just got my Crowson for my new HT room.
What about EQ? I will be running it thru my MiniDSP and set it at about 40hz. My assumption is that you don't need any eq but couldn't find anywhere to verify.
Just wondering if you would use a shelf filter as I do my sealed subs to get more ULF.

Thanks,
Moto
post #132 of 255
Hey Moto,

Good to see you on here smile.gif

I don’t see an issue with using a shelf filter as long as it’s not overpowering or getting the Crowson hot.

How do you like the Crowson so far?


Thx,
Claude
post #133 of 255
I am in the process of moving everything into the new room but I did hook it up but am a long way from getting it set up correctly. However, form the brief time I have had it in it looks like it is going to be awesome.
post #134 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunga99 View Post

Hey Moto,

Good to see you on here smile.gif

I don’t see an issue with using a shelf filter as long as it’s not overpowering or getting the Crowson hot.

How do you like the Crowson so far?


Thx,
Claude

Even though this question is directed to Moto, I"d like to share my thoughts as well.
What I noticed as I was using Crowson is that the expectation changes. Well, first we need to have right expectatation from it. That is "what we should expect from it"? I had for some reason stablished wrong exceptation of giving me strong quick hit in chest in scenes like fire shot (scenes with loud and quick bass). Therefore, I kept on thinking that it is not producing enough vibration.

The main purpose (atleast for me now) of it is to give a vibration at low frequencies (considering you have a cut off point around 40-60). That is, scenes like suspense ones, slow low bass will provide a very nice light vibration which enhances the experience (dark knight opening scene of bank robbery). Also scenes with loud quick bass, you get a very quick and short vibration which does catch your attention (door shut). Then scenes where it starts with loud bass and bass goes down (dark knight tunnel scene where at the beginning of it joker shoots a cop).

In my experience, one doesn't need too much of strong impact to fully enjoy it. Mine is now set to a little lower from 40 and I enjoy it. And finally, watching scary movies is a blast :-) (think of a scene where all of a sudden a loud screme with deep loud bass with a shake from transducer).
post #135 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post

Even though this question is directed to Moto, I"d like to share my thoughts as well.
What I noticed as I was using Crowson is that the expectation changes. Well, first we need to have right expectatation from it. That is "what we should expect from it"? I had for some reason stablished wrong exceptation of giving me strong quick hit in chest in scenes like fire shot (scenes with loud and quick bass). Therefore, I kept on thinking that it is not producing enough vibration.

The main purpose (atleast for me now) of it is to give a vibration at low frequencies (considering you have a cut off point around 40-60). That is, scenes like suspense ones, slow low bass will provide a very nice light vibration which enhances the experience (dark knight opening scene of bank robbery). Also scenes with loud quick bass, you get a very quick and short vibration which does catch your attention (door shut). Then scenes where it starts with loud bass and bass goes down (dark knight tunnel scene where at the beginning of it joker shoots a cop).

In my experience, one doesn't need too much of strong impact to fully enjoy it. Mine is now set to a little lower from 40 and I enjoy it. And finally, watching scary movies is a blast :-) (think of a scene where all of a sudden a loud screme with deep loud bass with a shake from transducer).

This reminds me of the first time I watched a horror flick with the Crowson installed. I think it might have been Paranormal Activity 4. There was a scene where something suddenly moved across the screen and it had a loud bass effect. With the Crowson installed, it felt like whatever it was that moved across the screen also moved across my room and bumped my recliner while do so. eek.gifeek.gif Freaked me out! redface.gif and brought a whole new level of scare/realism to scary movies smile.gif
post #136 of 255
Unfortunately the horror genre doesn't do it for me. The exceptions are Zombie movies/tv and Vampire movies/tv (I love Walking Dead and like True Blood, even tho I didn't like the whole "Governor" storyline in WD). For some reason if it's Vampires or Zombies I am going to like it no matter what. I even liked that horrible Dark Shadows with Johnny Depp who I can't stand. I know I have seen about a dozen of each including Juan of the Dead which was a hoot! If you haven't seen it you should.
post #137 of 255

All,

 

I think found a way for you to get a fixed signal to your Crowsons if you don’t have an Oppo.

 

Get one of these: http://www.amazon.com/Extractor-Digital-Converter-De-Embedder-Decoder/dp/B005COKXCO

 

And then, route the resultant signal through one of these: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ODL312/ to get it to output to a XLR cable.

 

Set the filter on your amp (Behringer or Buttkicker) and you’re should be all set!

 

This came about because I recently sold an Oppo 105 and replaced it with a silver oppo 105, but I'm realizing--now that I use an HTPC, and other theater equipment choices are rendering the Oppo's analog outputs useless. I'm returning the second Oppo 105 for a refund.  But before I did that, I thought to myself: How can I retain a fixed bass signal to my Crowsons?  This looks to be an inexpensive and logical solution (I hope).

post #138 of 255
Nice find Matt!

I’m just thinking out loud here….Some AVRs Pre-Pro have a “REC OUT” or “TAPE OUT” and I believe that is also a fixed signal but not sure how that works with Digital formats such as 5.1/7.1 DTS HD MA, Dolby TrueHD and what not. You would still not have any option to set delays but might be another cheap option if it works. Again, I have no idea if this will work or if its even a good idea to attempt this redface.gif– I’m just putting it out there…Maybe someone more knowledgeable can advise why this may or may not be a good idea.




Thx,
Claude
post #139 of 255
Excuse my ignorance but why do I want a fixed signal?
post #140 of 255
Moto,

I think you know most of what I’m about to post already so please ignore if some of it is coming too simple but I am only posting this for any new folks that may inquire about it in the future. I think having an un-eq’d fixed signal may be more ideal – in most cases. For example, if you are using Audyssey to EQ your system and are using the Sub Preout of your AVR to send a signal to the amp powering the Crowson, the Crowson is seeing the whatever Audyssey did. If Audyssey saw a 7db peak at 30hz in your room, it may pull that peak down to get your response flat. In this example, the Crowson actuators would not have a strong feel at 30hz so I think this is why you need an un eq’d signal. I think you plan on using Mini DSP to raise ULF so this probably does not apply to you. I remember reading that Craig John has tried hooking up the Crowson Actuators both ways (via the Oppo) for an Un EQ’d fixed signal that he can also control the delays/distance and he also tried it via the AVR/PrePro sub pre-out where the Master Volume would control the feel/intensity. I think Craig stated that he preferred using the un eq’d fixed signal of the Oppo and the option to set the delay.

I personally never tried it hooked up directly to the Oppo. Here’s how I have mine hooked up and I’ve been happy enough with it that I never tried hooking it up the other way. I still have around 100 or so HD-DVDs so I can use the Crowson with my HD-DVDs as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunga99 View Post

I have the Anti-Mode 8033 that I use to EQ my SubMersive HP. I then run Audyssey XT in my Onkyo 805 receiver after Anti-Mode is finished running. I noticed that Anti-Mode pulls down a slight peak at 20hz and a very large peak at 50hz in my small room. Audyssey XT does eliminate some additional ringing but most of its correction is above 50hz and the corrections are not overly aggressive. With this in mind, I used a Y splitter from the Sub preout of my receiver. There’s one Rca wire running off the splitter is heading towards the Anti-mode device and then to the SubMersive. The other RCA wire off the splitter is running to the Buttkicker 1000N amp that is powering the Crowson. So the SubMersive is seeing the full correction of the Anti-Mode and Audyssey combo but the Crowson is seeing only the minor corrections what of Audyssey did. I also have the Crowson low passed at 40Hz via the Butttkicker amp.

I think Mike Duke previously had it hooked up via the Oppo but then switched it to the Sub Preout when he got his Server. I think Mike said both worked well but he may have prefered the direct connection to the Oppo slightly more. Maybe they will jump in and share their thoughts as well.
post #141 of 255
OK, thanks I got it.

I EQ my system manually so I assume that doesn't apply to me.
I hope to have everything in my new room and working tomorrow or Friday so I should have it rehooked up then. Have about 4 or 5 movies I have been waiting on for the new room. Oblivion is one of them, I hope I haven't hyped it up too much after hearing how good the audio/video is on it.
post #142 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by MX48 View Post

OK, thanks I got it.

I EQ my system manually so I assume that doesn't apply to me.
I hope to have everything in my new room and working tomorrow or Friday so I should have it rehooked up then. Have about 4 or 5 movies I have been waiting on for the new room. Oblivion is one of them, I hope I haven't hyped it up too much after hearing how good the audio/video is on it.

Oblivion is a GREAT visual treat and the magnificence of its audio design lies more in the subtleties than in the bombastic action scenes, of which there are not many of.  But, it is not a "Crowson Showcase" movie the way, say, a Transformers movie would be, so just something to keep in mind. 

post #143 of 255
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

All,

I think found a way for you to get a fixed signal to your Crowsons if you don’t have an Oppo.

Get one of these: http://www.amazon.com/Extractor-Digital-Converter-De-Embedder-Decoder/dp/B005COKXCO

"All digital audio formats including Dolby 5.1/7.1 SURROUND can be converted to analog stereo L/R RCA."

Most "down-mixing" of Dolby multi-channel surround content to stereo, 2-channel causes the LFE channel to be discarded. It's required in the downmixing spec. I would not want to run the transducer *without* the LFE channel. eek.gif What you want is a decoder that outputs all 5.1 or 7.1 analog outputs, (with the *key* being the .1 subwoofer output), not just 2-channel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

And then, route the resultant signal through one of these: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ODL312/ to get it to output to a XLR cable.
This is a 2-channel device. It accepts a 2-channel optical signal. The HDMI Extractor outputs a multi-channel output: "Maintains surround format when converting to digital optical audio." Even if you could find a way to retain the LFE Channel with downmixing, I don't see how this can work.

The *ideal* device would contain a Dolby and DTS decoder with analog outputs, (including a subwoofer output), Bass Management and speaker/subwoofer Distance settings. A BluRay player or a multi-chanel receiver are the only devices I'm aware of. The other option would be a computer soundcard with a Dolby/DTS decoder and analog outputs, maybe something like this: http://www.asus.com/Sound_Cards_and_DigitaltoAnalog_Converters/Xonar_HDAV13_Deluxe/

Craig
post #144 of 255
Well guys, I am the newest member to the Crowson family. As per usual, I went over board and bought 4 actuators for one chair , one for each corner of the seat.

One question though, can you apply a house curve to these things?
post #145 of 255
Dave,
When you bought 4 I thought you had multiple chairs or a big couch or something.
I'm pretty sure 4 will be enough smile.gif!

Anyway, when I first got mine (I just use one set in the middle of the chair, I tried it under 1 leg and could localize it) I set up a boost down low but it was way too much. I ended up without any boost. I am assuming this works because unlike a speaker the Crowson is delivering the frequencies straight to the seat. But that is just a guess and I haven't done the research to verify.

Let us know what you ultimately set it at and if you boost, that will save me some time smile.gif.

Moto
post #146 of 255
No other chairs involved at this stage, I really am only interested in the main listening position and I figured having one on each corner is not going to hurt things.

But, if it feeds the same frequencies as the LFE channel, then I was hoping I could apply my house curve to them. Just wondering if they are able to be treated like this?
post #147 of 255
Congrats Dave!
4 on 1 chair is nuts! cool.gif
With the incredibly sealed concrete bunker of a room you have plus that awesome massive sub set up you have, I would be very interested in hearing what you think of the crowsons after you get them dialed in.
I have 1 per chair mounted in the center bottom of the chair and it works quite well. I have my low pass filter on my amp set at 40hz. I can't see any reason you can't add a house curve to these as long as they are not being over driven. With 1 on each chair, mine have yet to make a bad noise and yet to get warm even after some very spirited consecutive demos.
post #148 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunga99 View Post

Congrats Dave!
4 on 1 chair is nuts! cool.gif
With the incredibly sealed concrete bunker of a room you have plus that awesome massive sub set up you have, I would be very interested in hearing what you think of the crowsons after you get them dialed in.
I have 1 per chair mounted in the center bottom of the chair and it works quite well. I have my low pass filter on my amp set at 40hz. I can't see any reason you can't add a house curve to these as long as they are not being over driven. With 1 on each chair, mine have yet to make a bad noise and yet to get warm even after some very spirited consecutive demos.
Thanks!

Contrary to most beliefs, even though I am on a concrete floor I still have a very tactile experience in my theater. I was always looking to make it better and was thinking about adding a small riser when I was told about these. I am definitely looking forward to what they will provide. Will post impressions as soon I get them and have them setup.
post #149 of 255
Received the transducers today, very good quality stuff. Just need to get some XLR to RCA adapters and I am good to go.
post #150 of 255

Welcome to the fold!  They're a lot heavier than they look,right? I'm pretty sure you could apply the house curve to them.  I run mine with two Seaton SubM's in PGM 2, and it keeps up with that curve 1:1.  At least, that's what my "cheeks" tell me!

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