The "Official" Crowson Tactile Motion Actuators Thread. - Page 3

[quote name="craig john" url="/t/A specialized amp is a more appropriate solution. With 2 actuators, you want an amp that can output up to 1,000 watts into 4 Ohms, (assuming you wire them in parallel.)

Good luck.

Craig[/quote]


As much as I've been into this ht hobby for quarter of a century, you might have well thrown me an advanced algebra equation and asked me to work it out lol! I have about as much idea about both which is close to zero lol!
I'm going to play WOTW again later and lower the gain until the amp doesn't go into protect mode. Once I get that to a level that doesn't put the amp into protect mode, I'll play some other lesser bass heavy scenes and see (feel) what the response is like. I don't want to have to be independently having to manually change the gain for every different movie I watch, I just want a set and forget. If the lesser bass movies don't trigger the Crowsons to acceptable levels I'll be investing in a new amp for sure. I'll send my Crowson rep in Sydney an email.
One other thing, could crappy speaker cable from the amp to the actuators be a possible cause of the problem?
Cheers.

Thanks again Craig. Yes I have them wired in parallel according to that link (hey I've learnt something today! lol). So seems I may need another amp ( or 2 if I want to hook up the other 2 Crowsons ). Don't know my speaker gauge wire, but its skinny stuff that I had to check from one end to the other for the appropriate positive and negative lines as it didn't have any markings to indicate (cheap).

Tried turning the gain down on WOTW to stop the amp going off but then when I played Kung Fu Panda prison break scene I had zero effect coming out of the Crowsons Had to turn the gain back up to get them working.

Looks like a new amp or two I'll have to buy.

Anyway the positive thing is when the Crowsons are stopped mid scene for several seconds it really emphasises how well they work. Even with 2 SubMersives and Catalyst 12c's LCR, when the Crowsons are engaged its a whole different experience. An amazing piece of gear. I'll write more once I sort out this issue with a new amp and get them dialed in correctly, but it will be the same as everyone else with them, awesome!

(I'm writing this as KFP is playing at -25db and no kidding the bass thumps through the couch just make me laugh. Can see my need to play stuff at reference levels a thing of the past!)

Hi Craig, I think I may have confused you lol. I already have each transducer on its own channel. I read parallel as + to + and - to -

Anyway I have further experimented for several hours and come to the conclusion I need more power.

I fed my back surround lead into each transducer to eliminate the speaker wire or polarity as an issue, ran each one separately so as to use minimum power on the amp, I played at -25db on the MV so as not to tax the 3 remaining surround speakers, and I swapped out the AV leads from the Crowson preamp to my power amp with ones that hook other gear so I know are ok. None of this changed the fact that when the road splits open in WOTW my amp goes into protect mode and keeps doing so until the scene passes.

No drama, I will order a new amp specifically to run the Crowson. Now I have my lounge in a U configuration I'm thinking too that I really only need 2 transducers so hopefully I can basically swap the TES 100 kit for an amp.

Thanks for your help Craig, much appreciated. Looking forward to hearing more from others too as they install their Crowsons

Cheers.

Well happy to report that all my issues with my amp going into protect mode are now gone

I'd gone as far as ordering a Crowson dedicated amp and having my CC deducted for the amount. They are a brand new amp btw and not on the Crowson website yet.

Anyway I was watching The Dark Knight today and the one thing I really started to notice was the actuators would rumble the couch a split second before the actual explosion/gun shot/punch etc. I have the Crowson preamp directly connected to the analog sub out on my Oppo 93 as that was how some of you guys were doing it, and that's when I realised that my Integra 80.3 is applying auto lip sync but the Oppo wouldn't be hence the fraction of a second mis-timing.

I'd looked at hooking directly to the sub out on the Integra when I first had issues with the amp cutting out, but I couldn't get any signal out to activate the Crowsons. It got the better of me today so I grabbed the Integra manual and realised I'd fed the cable to the wrong preout doh! Once I connected to the correct sub out I re-ran some scenes and everything just fell into place perfectly. Put WOTW on and made it through the entire pod emergence scene without a single hiccup. The best thing is obviously my amp being ok and not needing to spend more money on another one, but getting the Crowsons in sync with the onscreen action is a nice bonus, kinda a buy one get one free situation lol So even though I'm slightly embarrassed by the solution, I'd take that any day of the week over going through the cost of a new amp and then more than likely having the exact same issues.

So I thought the Crowsons were awesome before, now they are just ridiculously crazy! I love them, and I still have the other two actuators still to hook into the system. I'll be doing that tomorrow.

So in the space of 4 days I've installed my new jvc x35, built a new riser, set all my furniture up in a new configuration of one large U shape, added one Crowson tactile kit, taken all my furniture back out, re-did my riser reducing it by 20 inches in length, put my furniture back in set as 2 rows rather than one U shape section, and got my Crowson kit working properly! A big 4 days but worth it in every way imaginable.

Some movies I played today skipping through various scenes -

Finding Nemo, can't believe how sensational the Darla tapping on the tank scene is now, I replayed it 5 or 6 times and thought I've gotten value for money just with that!

LOTR 2, opening scene you are there falling with Gandolf feeling every single bass hit.

The Incredibles, scene after scene just laugh out loud stuff, those aircraft things when they crash and explode its hard to believe they are just sound effects, the couch shaking just makes it seem real.

The Dark Knight, Batmans first appearance, when the tumbler enters crashing through the concrete wall it's like it's crashed through my house lol.

And so far the ultimate - Dredd 3d Watched this from start to finish and afterwards I can only describe it as the complete HT experience. From Dredd on his motorbike, which shook the couch as he accelerated and was just super cool, when the guys he's chasing crash, the depth in the bass as the car rolls feels like you could wrap your arms around it, don't really know how to properly convey the feeling other than just cool fun. The slo-mo stuff takes on a whole new feel haha, brilliant stuff.

Summing up, although the Crowson system wasn't exactly cheap purely on dollar cost, for what it does its an absolute bargain. I find it amazing now that after just a few days of use I couldn't imagine not having it in my system. I'd go as far as parting with one of my SubMersives before I'd let the Crowson go. Look maybe I've just got stars in my eyes atm and love for a new toy, but I can't see ever not being in love with it. Some things come along that just change your whole perception of something, this is one of those things IMHO.

Getting back to how I now have it connected through my Integra, I will be able to use it for all sources such as Paytv and through my Sonos music system rather than just through my Oppo 93 as before. Just keeps getting better.

Sorry if I've rambled on too long but if it helps someone to go and try such a system I know they would love it and want it.

Lastly here's a couple of pics of my new riser and how I have my seats setup.

Cheers and thanks again Craig for this thread, doubtful if I'd ever gone done this path if I hadn't stumbled across it.

Good stuff crazy4daisy,

Sounds like you had a very busy, yet fun, 4 days.

I am glad you got everything sorted out. I’ve hooked up my sub to the wrong preout in the past when trying out different sub locations. I am sure I am not the first to do this nor do I believe you will be the last person to use the wrong preout so don’t be too embarrassed. At least you were figured it out before the new equipment arrived

Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I’ve only had mine for over a month and the Crowson “Honeymoon Phase” is FAAAR from over!

PS. The pictures of the new riser look great!

Hey thanks guys, rock on Crowson!

I like many have been looking for a way to add that extra little impact for most movies and although I am very happy with HSU ULS-15 Dual drives there was an answer. Guys like Brolic ,MikeDuke and Craig have been very instrumental in peaking my interest on the Crowsons so this ushered in the dual shadows .First I first switched over to (2) new theater seats but to be honest these devices will work on most couches, chairs (metal frame or wood in my case). My next matter was how to power them and source the LFE to them .Power wise there are some great choices such as Buttkicker, and Beringer to name a few but after going back and forth I spoke to Randolph at Crowson about my needs and he gave me a new option the D-500 which they are now carrying. My reasons for choosing this amp was size (1RU) as my rack space is somewhat limited but at the same time I also wanted something that could produce a good amount of power such as the units above and have some form of DSP built in also it has some nice aesthetics to it for my liking.

Crowsons D-500 Amplifier is on the website under manuals for more details and should be up on the main page soon once they get pictures etc complete but here are some specs.
312 watts RMS powering 2 Actuators (8 ohms ea)
500 watts RMS powering 4 Actuators (8 ohms ea)
No RS232 port like the larger amp has
Its about 20 pounds and is 1 RU high
12 volt Trigger Input ,Auto sensing input
Remote Control
2 EQ Modes

Source:
I am using the Oppo-BDP-93 as my source via the sub out to a Y- connector to both inputs on the amp to maximize signal and I set the Oppo for variable volume level but I eventually finalize my volume settings at around 85 and that was more than enough and the crossover at 40 Hz..I chose not to use my Integra sub outputs because of concerns on how audyssey XT32 may affect the transducers but there are some who have has success with it.

D-500 and TES 100
The amp has its own variable crossover built in, with a 0 and 180 degree phase option volume and 2 DSP settings for music and movie which can all be controlled by the remote control and the 12 volt trigger so my integra can fire it on when I am in Movie mode only.The build quality of the TES are impressive for such small devices supporting up to 1000 pounds if necessary. There was a concern that my thick carpet and padding may nullify the response and could create unwanted heat but so far so good.

There is already plenty of information already and video on installing the TES100 transducers (there easy) on chairs but I will add this make sure to get enough of the motion isolators because some chairs will require the extra point of contact and coming up short can be a road block trust me lol!!!! When running these start low with the volume and turn it up slowly until it blends well with the subwoofers otherwise it will feel unnatural.

Movies:
I ran the usuals like Transformers #2, Batman Rise of the Dark Knight (the entire intro scene with Bane) and we were blown away by how much more involved the movies are. I love how quick they are in there response to LFE and ULF and then drop off when not called for.

Music:
I mainly listen to Jazz ,Classical and 80’s Rock so I was not expecting them to do much but I really do not use the subs for these types of music preferring to just use my mains however I popped in a couple of Hip-Hop Cd’s and some R&B and they do come to life.

I would say these are the perfect additions to any Home Theater/Entertainment area and we will not be going without them from this point forward. Randolph Crowson was great to deal with and very easy to contact via email and phone throughout the entire process. They are so confident you will like them the audition time is for 30 days and get your money back but I doubt they get very many returns lol!!!
Edited by wkingincharge - 2/27/13 at 7:07pm

Excellent write-up! I’m glad you were able to get enough isolators for your seating. I almost didn’t order enough isolators initially—at $10 a pop, I didn’t want to spend any more than I absolutely had to. That D-500 sounds like a great amp! Its specs interest me—usually; the relationship between # of channels driven and watts per channel is that an increase in the former catalyzes a decrease in the latter. I’m going to read up on that amplifier, as I still need to get an additional crowson + amp [eventually] for my third HT seat. Man, if you want a nice crowson demo, try out a scene from Transformers 1 where Ironhide jumps over a screaming woman. It’s in the chapter immediately BEFORE the chapter than begins with Meagan Fox smashing a tow-truck window. You’ll want to play that one over and over again  Your Hsu Dual Drives will get a nice workout as well. It’s not very deep, but very clean and very loud!

Also, this is a personal preference thing, but you can always bump up the crossover temporarily for Jazz. Sometimes, I increase the crossover for music with more midbass than low bass. It increases the feeling of being at a concert (At Jazz lounges, you feel the music vibrate in almost anything you touch—even the midrange frequencies, although that’s just due to extreme loudness.)

Nice write up. Funnily enough i just today went ahead and ordered a new Crowson amp, couldn't get any details on it as they said it wasn't even on their website yet, so it must be the D500. Glad i did now after reading this write up, thanks. Interesting how you have it hooked up too, i'm running the same equipment so i think i'll do the exact same as you when i get the D500, so thanks again. Clipped my amp again today on the WOTW pod emergence scene so shot an email straight off for a new amp. It's the only film that still clips my amp. Watched Skyfall today and my love for Crowson only deepened if that's possible! There's an explosion early in the movie and even though i knew it was coming it nevertheless scared the bejesus outta me! I should add too that people reading may think these things dominate all viewing, that couldn't be further from the truth. Dialed in properly they just complement everything perfectly, and just add a sense of realism i'd never experienced until now.

Great write up, wkingincharge. Thank you for sharing! I also agree with you and Brolic that extra isolators can really come in handy. I did experiment with my Crowson placement and turns out the extra isolators provided some more placement options for the Crowson Actuators which ultimately helped with some minor localization issues I was having and improved overall performance.

Thanks Brolic !! It was your video helped in my decision making!! The D500 is a strong amp with good power specs and with me knowing down the road there could be 2 more chairs or a couch this amp will allow for additional transducers so it might be what you are looking to add eventually. I will be running demo's galore this weekend and Transformers 1 is on the list as that bass sweep with Ironhide is classic lol!! and at some point over the weekend we will finally watch Skyfall.I also plan to revisit the music again adjusting my crossovers setting like you mentioned to see were that gets me.


Thanks!! I think given your situation this might fit the bill the only real difference between this amp and the C602 that Crowson carries is the deletion of the RS232 and the size. WOTW is one of the most brutal of LFE movies I know of especially the Pod Emergence and its on my list to run a little as well. Like you said when setup properly they seem to blend in so well only calling attention to themselves when the movie warrants it.


No Problem!!! I was glad to offer my opinion. I watched Brolic video and remembered in particular talk of additional isolators and I said to myself get whats needed lol!!!yet still came up on the low side. I figure most people probably need at least 8 to 10 isolators and maybe more if for a large couch.

Thank you so much for posting this video, Would you mind posting a complete diagram of installation of this unit Crowson c602? Starting from Stereo amplifier to crowson tactile amp c602 up to the seat... :-)

Hi everyone,

How much for a complete Crowson setup....for one 3 seater couch?

Crazyfordaisy....are you minty?...on DTVForums? lol. Located in AUS.....if the price isnt too much, I could swing it by the wife lmao!.

Here's some info on the crowson website:

http://www.crowsontech.com/go/crowsontech/3450/en-US/DesktopDefault.aspx

When I ordered mine, I asked about discounts and the owner told me about a 10% Powerbuy discount. This reduces the prices you see on the Crowson website by 10%. I think you have to call the owner, Randolph Crowson, to get this discount applied to your order.

Sure am mate, I'll send a pm on DTV later tonight with all the details and who to contact.

Sir, how many seats can i connect to a single actuator?Is there a limit?

I have stand alone recliners and I am using 1 actuator per recliner.

Craig John has home theater seating and he is using 1 actuator for 2 seats. He's has helpful pics/docs here
and here

Each actuator supports up to 1000lbs.

Has anyone upgraded from the original TES100 to the newer Shadow 8? I've had my TES100 for 8 or 9 years now. Curious if it's worth updating to the newer model.