Official "scorpion" SI build thread. - Page 2

+1. Acoust-X is not worthwhile in a speaker cabinet. IME, not really. There's far too much material in the cab corners, where it's not required, while spline braces, though better than nothing, aren't very effective. This is how one gets the most effective bracing, at the same time using the least amount of material:


A single panel to panel brace connecting the middle of two opposing panels has the same effect as doubling the thickness of those panels. One can easily duplicate the effectiveness of 2 inch thick material using well braced 1/2 inch thick material. Or duplicating with 3/4 inch the effect of using 3 inch.
Edited by Bill Fitzmaurice - 1/13/13 at 11:50am

the reason i dont use dowels is because theres usually plenty of ply you already have left for the braces, dowels are one more thing to buy, and they really are not that cheap. and to say Roberts build is "not really" well braced is pretty harsh imo. im betting it does the job just fine. im sure the dowels are great for bracing, but saying using panels like that is not good bracing doesnt hold water to me. show me the data. its still fighting against forces. whether its strongest areas are not where you need them is irrelevant as long as it is doing its job.

not trying to argue. if you said the dowels are a good alternative, that would be fine. but to say using panels is poor bracing doesnt make sense.


Also, I have not seen ONE horn sub using dowels for bracing. just saying..

I see the logic as well I just think there's more than one way to skin this cat. If the bracing is doing its job, who cares if its dowels or panels and most people building these already have enough plywood to use for the bracing. That's all I meant.

Post counting eh? Dang. This is getting competitive now

The pic shows dowels as one option. I usually use 1 x 1 inch plywood strips laminated from 1/2" ply cutoffs myself. Roberts uses mainly spline braces. I used to, I went away from them years ago, other than where they're the only alternative, because they just don't work even remotely as well as panel to panel braces. Any brace material that goes into the corner joint is wasted time and material. It looks nice, but doesn't do anything. I don't use dowels on horns either, as there's always plenty of left over plywood to use instead with a horn build. Dowels do have the advantage for the one-off direct radiator cab builder of being inexpensive and readily available.

I was only trying to offer some advise as to how I went about building my cabinets- nothing more nothing less. As far as bracing goes, I did not have to put any of those splines in there, those were an afterthought to appease the LFE gods. Those cabinets do not have any given panel that flexes in any way whatsoever. They are best design I could possibly have chosen for my situation. They are dense as well as heavy. They do not rock or vibrate in any way- and I mean not in any way at all. This was my first real subwoofer project- not just a speaker box with a couple of jigsaw holes in it and I think it turned out fine. I am so happy with it, that I do not ever think I could upgrade to anything better as I have heard a ton of offerings out there and yet to have felt how I do about mine. I guess I am partial to my build, but I am also fairly level headed to know that there is always something or someone with a better way to skin a cat. I happen to be the kind of guy who build something and does it right one time. The prototype is the finished product, so if not good enough I will live with it and just enjoy it the way it is. Life is too short to worry about how other people judge what we do. I will offer help if it is wanted but I do not want to push my ideas onto anyone's project. I am so thankful to the guys who helped me when building my system. Neo Dan did the original blueprints for me offered so much saige advice.and Michael Hurd was the man as far as paint goes. I had never shot auto paint in my life and I have an outstanding product as the result of his help. The encouragement of the other members was enough to push me to completion and I was and still am happy with the results. I would not change a thing from my standpoint. With over 250 pounds of drivers and passives hanging on the baffles, I could have never justified my using just a single thickness for the baffles no matter how much bracing I used and that is just my opinion for my build only. Hindsight is always 20/20, and in this case, for me, foresight was 20/20. I chose the best drivers I could use, I got help from some of the most knowledgeable DIY guys around and I am still beaming everytime I see them standing tall in my theater. I saw a project that Josh Ricci was involved with called a Gjallerhorn and Those things are just calling me-Not because I want to change what I have, but if I had another space to fill and the place to put them, I would build those just for the cool factor. They may be better than what I have or not, but I would not be building them to outperform my old system, I would be building them to enjoy in a new way. So, that said, I am truly happy with my system and anyone who wants to give a listen, well contact me and we will set something up.

Here are some comments from Darrel who visited me:

Quote:
Originally Posted by darrellh44
Yeah, that's it...actually it's more like recovering from 15 rounds with Mike Tyson. I just kept getting smacked around while looking for the next punch.

First I want to say that Robert is a great guy and it was a pleasure meeting him. His man cave on the second floor is to die for...so much high quality gear up there he could open his own hi-end store.

Going into my visit, I wasn't sure what to expect after reading that Robert hadn't had a chance to get REW running to calibrate his new LMS subs. With all that horsepower in one room, I was anticipating something like a massive car-audio system booming out one-note bass. I was pleasantly surprised on the first movie track. The bass was solid, articulate, completely effortless, and was not overly deep until called upon. I have never had felt so much pressure on my ears and body...it was almost as if I dove into 15 ft of water (just louder). If you have every been under water next to someone doing a good cannonball, that's what the bass impacts felt like. I could really feel all of the hair on my arms and legs move on sudden bass transients. It really added to the effect of being there as my body dealt with the all of the percussive impacts of things going on onscreen. There was one scene from the Hulk that used an 8 Hz infrasonic beam weapon that just shook my body to the core...absolutely amazing experience.

Robert said he had some experience setting up live concert systems, and it's obvious that he is very adept at ear-tuning a system. The overall sound seemed very balanced to me. Also the workmanship on the LMS subs was second to none. The beautiful marble top and bottom plates and wood-grain finish sides looked very professional. The grill covers were also expertly done.

The only criticism I have (other than the fact that Robert attended my arch-rival Archbishop Rummel high school) is that there there seemed to have been some bass localization issues, but its probably more the case that I'm not used to having deep bass coming at me from the sides and rear. If I were Robert, though, I would probably try moving the big LMS subs a little closer to the front corners to see if they integrate better.

Robert has built a great show system that he promises will get even better. I highly recommend that anyone going close to New Orleans call Robert and setup a demo. I know he would be more than happy to welcome you to his home.

-Darrell


.

Keep cranking,

Robert
Edited by robertcharles - 1/13/13 at 7:08pm

This is pretty much what I do with all my DIY projects with excellent results. I thought maybe I was being lazy but it works.

Thx for posting this visual bracing Bill, great learning for me, easy to grasp.
Much simpler than cutting/routing, and saves material/time.

You don't have to buy dowels if you save the end cut strips, better if it is from plywood but MDF works as well. I have a box I put useful strip of wood into as they usually come in handy later on and saves a trip to the HD or Lowes.

I do massive bracing as well and make sure there awful purty Even though I know I can make ugly bracing I tend to go over board, the beauty of obsessive people doing DIY! What the heck, there for our best customer, ourselves, if your not going to over board for yourself then for who?

Mike I don't really consider that massive bracing, it is tastefully done. I have seen much worse for sure when people get on bracing.

Thanks B.

I also had 1 1/2" walls and a 2 1/4" front baffle, the lumber yard was happy with me on that build.


I like your new tag: My Wallet HZ..............lol. Me too bortha

And your chiropractor, I'd imagine.

Mike, what type of plywood are you using because the stain looks like it came out great? I tried to stain Arauco plywood from HD with General Finishes Rosewood and it came out horrible. Tons of blotchiness... I even used prestain conditioner. I'm now going out to HD to pick up some color templates paint to hide the hideousness of my failure. Does anybody have any good ideas regarding something neat with paint?

The auruco needs a LOT of treatment/sanding to look right, and I still didn't like it after doing a test panel. The BB looks alright with stain, I will be staining mine tonight and will have pics in the AEtd12x SEOS thread I have going. I am also going to post some pics of several different stain choices I am literally still deciding between. It will be a last minute choice The Lowes oak ply takes stain well too but I have had bad voids with those and no longer intend to use them...It is unfortunate how good it looks, at the expense of having a leaky box (MUCH worse).

Sweet!

I know you said it before, but MAN those are gonna be heavy!

I used shop grade 3/4" BB that is available in 4 X 8 sheets. It is not a true BB and one side has football shaped patches but the other side is a really nice thick birch veneer which is what you see. I used 1/4 round maple to hide the ply, that was the main reason for the 1 1/2" walls so that I could do the corners.

I knew about the blotchiness problems so I too them to a furniture re-finisher to apply the stain and finish them off. I was told that a glaze is what is best used to avoid the blotches but that is about all I know on that.

Here is how it came out with the maple corners:



You can PM me anymore questions so we don't hijack this thread anymore, sorry about that Bass Addict.

The bracing and room look great!