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Profiling colorimeter to spectrophotometer

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 
I've read most of the threads on profiling, but remain unclear as to the best method.

I have an i1Pro and an i1Display Pro. One method recommended is to use a bracket which will mount the i1Pro @ 6" behind the i1Display so both have the same field of view, at a distance of 24". The other is to use the meters separately so they can both be in the same position on the screen in contact mode.

I made the bracket for the 1st method, and can also mount each separately in contact mode, or on a tripod at a distance.

In one thread sotti recommends using the sequential method

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1356631/question-on-profiling-display3-pro-or-i1-display-to-colormunki.

For flat panels, is the contact mode best to profile?
post #2 of 16
What ever is easiest in your environment. Hair can only be split so many times. The important thing is that you are profiling you colorimeter.
If it is day time and room is not completely dark, use contact mode, just make sure both meters are hanging on the display while it is warming up for 30 minutes or more. I have profiled with both next to each other and one at a time trying to get the same spot.. I now just use a single pass for flat panels as it does not seem to make a visible difference in the end. You are going to get a dozen suggestions, but the best thing to do is try all of them and compare the data in the matrix..
post #3 of 16
Thread Starter 
Thanks for your input Doug.
post #4 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

What ever is easiest in your environment. Hair can only be split so many times. The important thing is that you are profiling you colorimeter.
If it is day time and room is not completely dark, use contact mode, just make sure both meters are hanging on the display while it is warming up for 30 minutes or more. I have profiled with both next to each other and one at a time trying to get the same spot.. I now just use a single pass for flat panels as it does not seem to make a visible difference in the end. You are going to get a dozen suggestions, but the best thing to do is try all of them and compare the data in the matrix..

I find warming the meter on the display no longer necessary for my Plasma and LED/LCD flat-panels. Warming up the display for an hour or longer helps quite a bit though. I use both the i1 Pro (Rev. D) spectro and the C6 colorimeter. I find the dark readings on the spectro every 10 mins keeps the readings extremely stable, especially on the top end where the C6 gets finicky. I haven't profiled the C6 against the i1 Pro yet, since the two displays I calibrate right now only have 2-pt grayscale and one also has gamma presets. I find I don't need to take readings near black except for contrast measurements and so I just use the spectro. It reads down to at least 1 fL with zero issues and can go lower in some cases.

BTW, I only use contact mode (for ease and rejecting ambient light).
Edited by PlasmaPZ80U - 1/11/13 at 9:06am
post #5 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

I find warming the meter on the display no longer necessary for my Plasma and LED/LCD flat-panels. Warming up the display for an hour or longer helps quite a bit though. I use both the i1 Pro (Rev. D) spectro and the C6 colorimeter. I find the dark readings on the spectro every 10 mins keeps the readings extremely stable, especially on the top end where the C6 gets finicky. I haven't profiled the C6 against the i1 Pro yet, since the two displays I calibrate right now only have 2-pt grayscale and one also has gamma presets. I find I don't need to take readings near black except for contrast measurements and so I just use the spectro. It reads down to at least 1 fL without zero issues and can go lower in some cases.

BTW, I only use contact mode (for ease and rejecting ambient light).

I still let the meters warm up before using them. I haven't tested either to see if it is really necessary, but do know it was with my i1D2.

I use contact mode for the same reason, it allows me to calibrate during the day.
post #6 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by vega509 View Post

I still let the meters warm up before using them. I haven't tested either to see if it is really necessary, but do know it was with my i1D2.

I use contact mode for the same reason, it allows me to calibrate during the day.

you should test it out with the i1 Pro spectro and D3... the D2 might be different from the spectro and the D3/C6 since it has exposed filters/sensors
post #7 of 16
Thread Starter 
I set up the i1pro and the i1display pro side by side on my 151fd, and ran 3 meter profiles back to back (roughly 4 min start to finish) in Calman. The set was run for over an hour with both meters in place. There seems to be a fair amount of difference in the 3 profiles.

Next I ran GS and Gamut readings with Calman, using the 3 profiles. Gamma seems to be consistent, but color temp varies from 6330 to 6650, and the primaries and secondaries and markedly different in both CIE location and DeltaE.

The attached excel file has the raw data from the 3 profiles, and 3 GS and Gamut runs, along with charts from HCFR to show the differences.

Which of these profiles should I trust? I'm at a loss, as I expected to find very little difference.

profile comp.xlsx 280k .xlsx file
post #8 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by vega509 View Post

I set up the i1pro and the i1display pro side by side on my 151fd, and ran 3 meter profiles back to back (roughly 4 min start to finish) in Calman. The set was run for over an hour with both meters in place. There seems to be a fair amount of difference in the 3 profiles.

Next I ran GS and Gamut readings with Calman, using the 3 profiles. Gamma seems to be consistent, but color temp varies from 6330 to 6650, and the primaries and secondaries and markedly different in both CIE location and DeltaE.

The attached excel file has the raw data from the 3 profiles, and 3 GS and Gamut runs, along with charts from HCFR to show the differences.

Which of these profiles should I trust? I'm at a loss, as I expected to find very little difference.

profile comp.xlsx 280k .xlsx file

Classic example of differencies between profilings.

Next Time you will run a meter profiling measure first the 100% of White using your i1PRO.

Then profile your colorimeter using your i1PRO and when you finish, measure 100% White again with the profiled meter. Compare the results and if you see that the 2 meter readings on 100% are close then keep that profile, if you see differencies then run the profiling again from the start.

Remember also that i1PRO needs dark reading every 5 min.

Always use 100% Amplitude Patterns with i1PRO becasue it's lacking at low luminance levels, we generally don't trust it for readings below 10 cdm/2.

Using 100% Amplitude Patterns with a 160 cd/2 Peak White Display like you KURO, the Blue has about 11.5 cdm2 Luminance.

If you use 75% Amplitude patterns your blue will be around 6 cd/m2.
Edited by ConnecTEDDD - 1/22/13 at 5:21pm
post #9 of 16
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the advice ConnecTEDDD. I used the 75% saturation patterns as recommended by Calman, I'll be sure to use the 100% next time.
post #10 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by vega509 View Post

Thanks for the advice ConnecTEDDD. I used the 75% saturation patterns as recommended by Calman, I'll be sure to use the 100% next time.

Saturation is always 100%, the difference in profiling patterns is at Luminance (Amplitude 100% vs. 75%) wink.gif
post #11 of 16
Ted,

10 cd/m^2? The published spec for the i1 Pro spectro is a minimum of 0.20 cd/m^2 in luminance. That's a huge difference.

Larry
post #12 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Ted,

10 cd/m^2? The published spec for the i1 Pro spectro is a minimum of 0.20 cd/m^2 in luminance. That's a huge difference.

Larry

We don't trust i1PRO for chromaticity below 10 cd/m2, it returns results that are off.

To experience this run a 21-Step Grayscale with your profilled meter and the i1PRO and compare the results.

The minimum luminance that can read is 0.20 cdm/2 and lower...
post #13 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

We don't trust i1PRO for chromaticity below 10 cd/m2, it returns results that are off.

To experience this run a 21-Step Grayscale with your profilled meter and the i1PRO and compare the results.

The minimum luminance that can read is 0.20 cdm/2 and lower...

mine reads color fine vs. my C6 down to 1 fL (or 3.4 cd/m2)... it fact, it can go a bit lower without issues

this translates to ~ 20% gray on most flat-panels... it may or may not read 10% gray accurately
post #14 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

Saturation is always 100%, the difference in profiling patterns is at Luminance (Amplitude 100% vs. 75%) wink.gif

What if you have a 100% problem with one of the primaries as I do.

My blue simply will not fully saturate because of the Panel problem.
post #15 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by PE06MCG View Post

What if you have a 100% problem with one of the primaries as I do.

My blue simply will not fully saturate because of the Panel problem.

It does not mater, you are not measuring what it is compared to what it should be.
You are measuring each color 2 time and both should be the same. But, since the colorimeter is not as accurate, the DIFFERENCE between what the 2 meters sees is what is being used to make the profile.
post #16 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

It does not mater, you are not measuring what it is compared to what it should be.
You are measuring each color 2 time and both should be the same. But, since the colorimeter is not as accurate, the DIFFERENCE between what the 2 meters sees is what is being used to make the profile.

Good point, thanks for reply.
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