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Survivor Season 26 CBS HD February 13th, 2013 - Page 20

post #571 of 823
Being an alumni is an advantage because your mental energy is not being wasted on worrying about survival living so you can concentrate on the game itself. Being an unknown element benefited Russell because nobody knew what a force of evil he was. Malcolm is more of an open book. He is obviously physically fit and doesn't try to bully people. It's probably more of a disadvantage because he has no former teammates to align with.
post #572 of 823
mgk and R11....I disagree. As far as challenges being planned in advance that doesn't take away advantage some would have...being planned doesn't take away....it is the event itself thrown purposefully in the middle of the season. Notice that type of challenge is not at the beginning or end of a season. The most threatened players to get booted are typically the best ones as the game evolves, and within reason the ones running the show (and we) know that players like Malcolm and Reynold are going to be around still but have targets on their backs. They have to perform or find an idol to survive further in the game. The harder the challenge the better the more capable athletes will do. It is a consistent survivor pattern..around the middle of the season, the stronger go further, lead more, have bigger targets on their backs and challenges get more physically difficult all playing into the stronger survivors who are also the biggest targets.
Edited by Hughmc - 4/21/13 at 2:15am
post #573 of 823
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughmc View Post

mgk and R11....I disagree. As far as challenges being planned in advance that doesn't take away advantage some would have...being planned doesn't take away....it is the event itself thrown purposefully in the middle of the season. Notice that type of challenge is not at the beginning or end of a season. The most threatened players to get booted are typically the best ones as the game evolves, and within reason the ones running the show (and we) know that players like Malcolm and Reynold are going to be around still but have targets on their backs. They have to perform or find an idol to survive further in the game. The harder the challenge the better the more capable athletes will do. It is a consistent survivor pattern..around the middle of the season, the stronger go further, lead more, have bigger targets on their backs and challenges get more physically difficult all playing into the stronger survivors who are also the biggest targets.

If your theory were true, then logic says final tribal would contain a consistent higher percentage of the athletic players ..
post #574 of 823
Hugh's theory has merit. Once the merge happens, the usual pattern is to vote out the "stronger" players who are usually the more physically fit. The producers realize this and don't want a bunch of "weak" or coat tail riders at the end, so they probably do set up some physical challenges after the merge to ensure that the stronger players have a better shot at the immunities.
post #575 of 823
Thread Starter 
While I can see the possibility of the theory, I still believe that would produce an inordinately high percentage of athletic players at Final Tribal .. which I just don't see over the last several years ..
post #576 of 823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughmc View Post

mgk and R11....I disagree. As far as challenges being planned in advance that doesn't take away advantage some would have...being planned doesn't take away....it is the event itself thrown purposefully in the middle of the season. Notice that type of challenge is not at the beginning or end of a season. The most threatened players to get booted are typically the best ones as the game evolves, and within reason the ones running the show (and we) know that players like Malcolm and Reynold are going to be around still but have targets on their backs. They have to perform or find an idol to survive further in the game. The harder the challenge the better the more capable athletes will do. It is a consistent survivor pattern..around the middle of the season, the stronger go further, lead more, have bigger targets on their backs and challenges get more physically difficult all playing into the stronger survivors who are also the biggest targets.

 

In your previous post it seemed you were talking specifics regarding the three amigos, as if manipulation was done to help those particular three in their current situation.  But I'm not sure I really agree with this general argument either.  Of course the focus of the game changes after the merge, but I don't think that the challenges suddenly become more physical.  Prior to the merge there are usually tough challenges that require physical strength and skill and that's why stronger players are typically kept around to maintain team strength.  The only difference is whether the team or an individual benefits and who is therefore targeted.

 

Take a look at the Immunity Challenges for this season:

 

Quote:

Episode 1: "She Annoys Me Greatly"

  • Immunity Challenge: Two members from each tribe would climb up a four story tower. On each floor would be three crates that they would have to toss from the tower. The crates would shatter on impact to release sandbags. Once all three crates were tossed over, the pair would return to the start and another pair would race to the next floor. Once all of the crates were retrieved, two castaways would retrieve the sandbags. One castaway would then try to toss six sandbags into six targets. The first castaway to get a sandbag in all six targets would win for their tribe.

 

Episode 2: "Honey Badger"

  • Reward/Immunity Challenge: Three tribe members would be pulled on a raft by three other tribe members to a platform out on the ocean. The three would then dive down to release bamboo sticks in a cage to free nine rings. Once all nine rings were freed, the three would board the raft again to be pulled back to the beach with the rings. The remaining three tribe members would then toss the rings onto three posts. The first tribe to have three rings on their posts would win.

 

Episode 3: "There's Gonna Be Hell to Pay"

  • Reward/Immunity Challenge: The tribe would race out into the ocean and climb over and into a bamboo cage. The tribe would then have to untie a door on the cage and drag a heavy chest through the door and back to the beach. Once back onto the beach, the chest would be placed on top of a track. The tribe would then have to use a ring tied to the end of rope to snag three segment of the track to complete the track. The first tribe to place the chest on their finish platform would win.

 

Episode 4: "Kill or Be Killed"

  • Immunity Challenge: Five tribe members would swim out one at a time to a platform, climb a tower and leap off it to smash a tile that releases a key. The castaway would then retrieve the key and return to the beach, allowing the next tribe member to go. Once all five keys were collected, two tribe members would use the keys to unlock a chest full of sandbags. They would then use the sandbags to knock off blocks stacked on a wall. The first tribe to knock off all their blocks would win.

 

Episode 5: "Persona Non Grata"

  • Immunity Challenge: Bikal forfeited the Challenge before it was introduced.

 

Episode 6: "Operation Thunder Dome"

  • Immunity Challenge: In pairs, the castaways would race across a field to retrieve six large crates painted in their tribe's colors. Once all six crates were retrieved, the tribes would have to stack the crates into a staircase with "Fans vs. Favorites" properly aligned along the sides. The first tribe to complete the staircase and get all of their members up the staircase to the top of a platform would win.

 

Episode 7: "Tubby Lunchbox"

  • Immunity Challenge: Three tribe members from each tribe would paddle out in a boat and then dive into the ocean to retrieve a statue. Once the statue is returned to the beach, it would be placed as the bottom of a tower. Three other tribe members would then use a grappling hook to retrieve five keys. Once all five keys were retrieved, the three would use them to unlock the tower. All of the tribe members would then pull on a rope to raise the statue to the top of the tower. The first tribe to have their statue at the top of the tower would win.

 

Episode 8: "Blindside Time"

  • Immunity Challenge: The castaways would participate in a local delicacy food eating challenge. The first round would pit two groups of six castaways eating beetle larvae with three castaways moving on from each group. The second round would be the advancing six eating shipworms with three castaways moving on. The third round would be the three castaways eating baluts with two moving on. In the final round, the two castaways would eat pig brains.

 

Episode 9: "Cut Off the Head of the Snake"

  • Immunity Challenge: The tribe members would be in the ocean under a metal grate as the incoming tide rises. As the tide rises, the breathing space under the grate grows smaller. The last castaway to remain under the grate would win.

 

Episode 10: "Zipping Over the Cuckoo’s Nest"

  • Immunity Challenge: Competing in two heats of five, the castaways would race across a platform, dive into the ocean, swim under the platform with the aid of a rope, climb back up onto the platform, retrieve a ring and put it on a post on the other side of the platform. They would have to complete two laps of this course. The first two castaways to finish their heat would move on the the final round. In the final round, the castaways would have to complete five laps on the course to win.

 

The three since the merge have been the nasty food eating challenge, the underwater breathing challenge and the keelhaul, so only the last one has really favored the physically strong players.  All the pre-merge ICs seemed to favor a good mix of strength and skill, and good team planning/execution.

 

 

ron

post #577 of 823
Quote:
Originally Posted by spid View Post


I would disagree. Malcolm made the leap to I am the bottom of this group move way faster than that was actually proven on the show. Eric seemed to be the bottom of the fav pile, but he didn't make any panic moves and if the favs stick together he is in a great position. Sometimes you have to make bold moves, and sometimes you have to sit quietly and be the swing vote.

 

And sometimes you don't make bold moves and simply get voted off.  That is pretty much the worst way to prove you were at the bottom of the fav pile.    Malcolm has two traits, that almost by default, pushed him to the bottom of that alliance once they hit the merge.   Everybody likes him and he's a very good performer in immunity challenges.    He was smart enough to realize that.  Could he have waited a couple more votes?  Maybe.  But I don't blame him for acting when he did, while he still had some numbers to try and form a counter-alliance.   As already mentioned by others, his (and Corrine's) big mistake was trusting Dawn with their plans.  
post #578 of 823
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooked01 View Post

Hugh's theory has merit. Once the merge happens, the usual pattern is to vote out the "stronger" players who are usually the more physically fit. The producers realize this and don't want a bunch of "weak" or coat tail riders at the end, so they probably do set up some physical challenges after the merge to ensure that the stronger players have a better shot at the immunities.

Wouldn't the producers want to do the exact opposite? By keeping challenges physical, they're keeping the target right on the strongest players back, and as soon as they don't win immunity, they're gone.

I would think that they'd want to set up challenges that give everyone a fairly equal chance at winning immunity. That way, the most physically fit player doesn't come into the game with a strong advantage and an automatic target on his/her back.

Just my .02
post #579 of 823
Quote:
Originally Posted by vespaguy View Post

Wouldn't the producers want to do the exact opposite? By keeping challenges physical, they're keeping the target right on the strongest players back, and as soon as they don't win immunity, they're gone.

I would think that they'd want to set up challenges that give everyone a fairly equal chance at winning immunity. That way, the most physically fit player doesn't come into the game with a strong advantage and an automatic target on his/her back.

Just my .02

There are very few challenges that would give everyone a fairly equal chance at winning. Someone will always have an advantage: Fitness, balance, agility, puzzle-solving, hand-eye coordination, iron stomach, etc.

What I was trying to say is that after the merge, the trend was for the less fit (weaker?) players to vote out the muscle guys, so to keep things interesting, there would be challenges that favor the physically fit to keep them from all being voted out.
post #580 of 823
You really want to analyze this?

Newly formed 7 people alliance in final 10?!
Phillip suicide?!
Malcolm giving the idol away (2nd time someone does that)?!
Everybody so brutally honest to everybody?!
Good game play?!

Just enjoy! That was really fun! This season is getting better and better!
Phillip gone, Brandon gone, Shamar gone, Cochran so much better and mature,
Brenda and Andrea super hot and athletic, so many beautiful smart athletic people advance to the final!
They have also stopped that ridicules editing at challenges!
This is one of the best seasons ever! I am so happy!

smile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gif
post #581 of 823
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooked01 View Post

There are very few challenges that would give everyone a fairly equal chance at winning. Someone will always have an advantage: Fitness, balance, agility, puzzle-solving, hand-eye coordination, iron stomach, etc.

I agree. But by keeping them random, no single player gets an overall edge.
Quote:
What I was trying to say is that after the merge, the trend was for the less fit (weaker?) players to vote out the muscle guys, so to keep things interesting, there would be challenges that favor the physically fit to keep them from all being voted out.

Well, it seems like a chicken/egg scenerio. Do the players target the strongest/fittest player after the merge because they excel at the challenges? or do the fit players excel at the challenges because the producers "favor the physically fit" to keep things interesting.

Like I said above, i think it would be more interesting if the majority of the challenges didn't favor any particular type of person overall. Sure, each challenge would give a certain type of competitor the edge, but overall it would give players "equal" footing. (How many challenges does Cochran *really* have a chance of beating Malcolm in? The food challenge was a welcome surprise.) After the merge, physical players wouldn't immediately have a target on their back since players wouldn't be thinking "they win all the challenges, therefore I need to vote him out as soon as an opportunity presents itself".
post #582 of 823
Was Dawn trying to catch fish with her powerful jaws? tongue.gif

Thank God nobody knows now......
biggrin.gif
post #583 of 823
Thread Starter 
As I've said, creating a challenge that is even approximately equal for all players would be difficult, if not impossible .. as each player has a different set of strengths / weaknesses ..

That said, it's likely the team challenges are the closest to allowing individual strengths to come out .. the ones where some get a bag of puzzle pieces and others end up completing the puzzle .. etc ..

You look at a player like Jeff Kent and, obviously, with anything that involved accuracy in throwing something, he should be the best ..

Then, you look at a player like Ozzy that some consider the best physical player .. yet, much like Malcolm, his social skills were lacking ..

My point is the game is a mixture of Outwit, Outlast, Outplay .. so although it may be technically possible to win, or at least get to Final Tribal through Immunity after the merge, the Winners Circle has plenty of members that were not Individual Immunity Challenge Monsters ..
post #584 of 823
Quote:
Originally Posted by edpowers View Post

And sometimes you don't make bold moves and simply get voted off. That is pretty much the worst way to prove you were at the bottom of the fav pile. Malcolm has two traits, that almost by default, pushed him to the bottom of that alliance once they hit the merge. Everybody likes him and he's a very good performer in immunity challenges. He was smart enough to realize that. Could he have waited a couple more votes? Maybe. But I don't blame him for acting when he did, while he still had some numbers to try and form a counter-alliance. As already mentioned by others, his (and Corrine's) big mistake was trusting Dawn with their plans.

After Brandon got the boot the alliance of Faves probably had Eric, Brenda and Malcolm at the bottom with the four of Andrea, Fillup, Cochran and Dawn as a solid four and Corrine maybe at 5 but slipping. Eric might have been eight but if you are Malcolm and you aren't in the top group you are aware of that and aware of what happens to people that wait around to be picked off. Eric is a non-factor, he isn't strategizing and is mostly on an adventure. When the tribes merged Fillup brought Sherri in to SRUS so he could use her. Dawn seems to have a relationship with Brenda that we only just saw, so Malcolm's placement is probably still in the bottom three with a larger target on him than Eric or Brenda. I'm not sure how anyone would think he was in control of any votes. Malcolm stated during the swap that he didn't want to be passive any longer and wanted to take control. I think that should be proof enough that he was in the bottom third of SRUS.

Note to edpowers. Somehow when I quoted you it didn't work properly and the first paragraph didn't get attributed to you.
Edited by jimbology - 4/23/13 at 3:48pm
post #585 of 823
There is a saying: "Fill your mouth with food, not big words." cool.gif

But even with Malcolm's suicide (2nd one) and Cochran's "forced" win, we have Andrea and Brenda and best player still on the game.

If nobody knows Malcolm, why is he a threat? He sucks this season at challenges. The last challenges are never physical anyway.
And he is not the most likable. Dawn is definitely more likable than him. His strategy sucks too.

Why nobody of the 6 wants to be at final 5? Even the newest member that doesn't really know anybody.
post #586 of 823
Quote:
Originally Posted by 33idolfinder View Post

There is a saying: "Fill your mouth with food, not big words." cool.gif

But even with Malcolm's suicide (2nd one) and Cochran's "forced" win, we have Andrea and Brenda and best player still on the game.

If nobody knows Malcolm, why is he a threat? He sucks this season at challenges. The last challenges are never physical anyway.
And he is not the most likable. Dawn is definitely more likable than him. His strategy sucks too.

Why nobody of the 6 wants to be at final 5? Even the newest member that doesn't really know anybody.
Huh? I don't understand your last two sentences. Please explain.
post #587 of 823
If he knew he was going home, why didn't Malcom just keep digging for the idol even with Andrea there?
post #588 of 823
Brenda is upset, she needs my shoulder to cry on, can someone tell her I am available to help her whenever she wants?

I was positive that someone from the 6 was going to flip and was shocked when they didn't. Poor Brenda wanted food so bad and then got pig brains, disgusting. Cochran used his money wisely and used his advantage at the best time, that was perfectly planned and congrats to him.

I almost spit out my water when he was fed peanut butter and Jeff asked him if that happens often. Cochran's response was awesome.
post #589 of 823
Quote:
Originally Posted by biker19 View Post

If he knew he was going home, why didn't Malcom just keep digging for the idol even with Andrea there?
I wondered the same thing. Even if she found it, he wouldn't have been any worse off.
post #590 of 823
Thread Starter 
I'd agree that Cochran bought and played the advantage well .. I would say that based on that challenge, the advantage almost guaranteed the one that had it the win ..
post #591 of 823
Quote:
Originally Posted by biker19 View Post

If he knew he was going home, why didn't Malcom just keep digging for the idol even with Andrea there?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoilerJim View Post


I wondered the same thing. Even if she found it, he wouldn't have been any worse off.

 

Malcolm explained that he had to shut it down and pretend like he had already found it.   He tried to bluff his way through tribal and he lost.    Andrea even said she was 80% certain he had the idol.   If he had kept looking, she would have known he didn't have it.     He said in his exit interview that he was pretty confident that he was not going to lose that vote.  He must have thought they had convinced one of the others to flip.    I would have just kept searching for it in front of Andrea, but he did at least have strategy, even if it was a bad one.

 

Hindsight is 20/20 but I thought it was a stupid move by the power alliance to split the votes.  At best, the 3 amigos had one immunity idol.   Its one thing for Malcolm to share an idol when he already has one around his neck, but it is quite another to give Reynold or Eddie his only idol.    They could have easily thrown all of their votes at either Reynold or Eddie without worrying about a flip.  

post #592 of 823
The fact that all the Three Amigos didn't keep all of their money to bid on the 'special' items that always come up was beyond idiotic to me. Every auction there is an immunity challenge advantage, and neither Eddie or Reynolds saved all their money to bid the max on it. One of them deserved to go for being so stupid.

Also, the advantage that Cochran purchased wasn't so much an advantage as it was a guaranteed win. One knot would be a HUGE advantage. Two knots was a win.
post #593 of 823
down to dos amigos now. it's pretty amazing that reynold and eddie are still there considering how long they have been a target. but it looks precarious for them now. one of them will have to go on an immunity challenge winning streak to stay in it.
post #594 of 823
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsambuca View Post

The fact that all the Three Amigos didn't keep all of their money to bid on the 'special' items that always come up was beyond idiotic to me. Every auction there is an immunity challenge advantage, and neither Eddie or Reynolds saved all their money to bid the max on it. One of them deserved to go for being so stupid.

The ability to keep calm and think through what you want to do in a scenario like the auction, after 30 days of lack of food, sleep, mental stimulation and just being deprived in general can separate the mediocre from the winners circle .. the remaining Dos Amigos have not, to me anyway, shown any real skill at anything dealing with what I would call a strategy .. where as, Cochran is definitely a student of the game and a thinker ..

I was surprised that from the way Malcolm chugged those beers that we did not see him stumbling around and acting goofy .. eek.gif
post #595 of 823
I can't give too many kudo's to Cochran for buying the "advantage" either since he also didn't immediately blurt out $500 like he should have.

I just with the advantage was just that, and advantage, rather than an auto win.
post #596 of 823
it seems to me that cochran, dawn and andrea are running the show now. although sheri thinks she is the kingpin...er queenpin. maybe the jungle is getting to her....or phil's delusion rubbed off on her. as for the other three, i like cochran's chances the best. dawn and andrea tend to get overly paranoid. brenda seems content to just slide by in her alliance. and eric thinks he is making strategical moves but he's really just blowing in the wind. i'm hoping somehow reynold or eddie can survive via immunity to shake things up....but in reality neither one of them have shown much in the way of strategy. they are most likely dead men walking.
post #597 of 823
Once they get rid of Eddie and Reynold - is Cochran possibly the biggest threat in challenges? (physical and otherwise) Bizarre ....
post #598 of 823
Thread Starter 
I think as the Alliance starts eating itself, we can look forward to some real meltdowns .. especially with Dawn .. I kinda feel like we may be in for an all female alliance shift .. current alliance picks off Reynold and Eddie .. then bands together to pick off Cochran and Eric ..
post #599 of 823
Quote:
Originally Posted by edpowers View Post

 

 

Malcolm explained that he had to shut it down and pretend like he had already found it.   He tried to bluff his way through tribal and he lost.    Andrea even said she was 80% certain he had the idol.   If he had kept looking, she would have known he didn't have it.     He said in his exit interview that he was pretty confident that he was not going to lose that vote.  He must have thought they had convinced one of the others to flip.    I would have just kept searching for it in front of Andrea, but he did at least have strategy, even if it was a bad one.

 

 

A little more detail as to what exactly went down with Malcolm and the idol here:

 

 

 

ron

post #600 of 823
I loved the fact that Brenda still took the brains back and ate them.

Cochrane's win was great.

Eddie has no clue and is no threat. If they were really unsure about the core people switching, then they should've set up the 4 strong alliance people to vote for Reynold. As it is, Malcolm's gone, and great. I didn't think the two were going to flip. Erik's too passive to make a big move like that without a massive powerpoint presentation and a cartoon. Sherri is probalbly expecting to be taken to the end as a goat. She has a better chance of winning against one or two others in her current alliance than against the guys.
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