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4K/UHD Content at CES 2013

post #1 of 9
Thread Starter 

 

 

With all the 4K/UHD displays on hand at CES, the next big question is, where will the native UHD content come from? At least two companies offered answers to this question. LG was demonstrating UHD over-the-air terrestrial broadcasting in conjunction with the Korean Broadcasting System (KBS), which has been running trials of this system in Seoul over a coverage area with a radius of 10 kilometers. The system transmits UHD at 60 frames per second (progressive) using a new codec called HEVC (high-efficiency video coding), aka H.265, which allows the signal to be transmitted at 35 Mbps, a 75-percent bandwidth savings compared with MPEG-2.

 

In the LG booth, the transmitter was behind the wall holding the 65-inch UHD TV seen above. Two antennas, which can be seen on either side of the TV in the photo, are required to pick up the signal, and the decoder sends the image to the TV via two HDMI cables. The KBS-produced content looked quite good to my eye.

 

 

 

 

Sony announced a distribution system that will provide UHD content for download to a server, such as the prototype shown here. The service is planned for launch this summer. Sony also announced consumer-oriented UHD camcorders, allowing you to create your own 4K content.

post #2 of 9
This isn't going to look good on a projection system or extra large flat panel... which is what you'll need for UHD anyway.

Sony is smoking crack if they think the current U.S. infrastructure can handle quality 4k anything for the next decade, at least. It'll be so cludgey that people won't bother with it, especially the much needed early adopter. In Japan, perhaps. But this ain't Japan, if they haven't noticed.

As I mentioned in a previous thread, even the BDA has admitted that a disc based format will probably be required for the foreseeable future... if you want quality UHD movies. Even Sony was loading UHD content onto their home media servers (free with one of their ultra-expensive sets) with higher capacity Blu-ray data discs.
post #3 of 9
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

This isn't going to look good on a projection system or extra large flat panel... which is what you'll need for UHD anyway.

Sony is smoking crack if they think the current U.S. infrastructure can handle quality 4k anything for the next decade, at least. It'll be so cludgey that people won't bother with it, especially the much needed early adopter. In Japan, perhaps. But this ain't Japan, if they haven't noticed.

As I mentioned in a previous thread, even the BDA has admitted that a disc based format will probably be required for the foreseeable future... if you want quality UHD movies. Even Sony was loading UHD content onto their home media servers (free with one of their ultra-expensive sets) with higher capacity Blu-ray data discs.

It seems to me that you're talking about streaming here, in which case, I agree with you that most people in the US don't have the bandwidth to support high-quality 4K streaming. Netflix was demonstrating 4K streaming in the Samsung booth, which I didn't get to see, but I can't imagine it would look very good, especially on a very large screen, as you point out.

 

On the other hand, Sony is talking about downloading, not streaming. So the quality can be very good, even if the consumer's bandwidth is low; it will just take a while to download. I suspect you would download a movie, say, overnight and then play it once it's on your local hard disk. You are right that Sony is pre-loading 4K movies onto a server that comes with the XBR-84X900, and more titles will be delivered to owners on Blu-ray data discs (not video discs), which are then loaded onto the server.

 

Red Ray is a similar story, with distribution on memory sticks or perhaps downloading, but not streaming.

 

As far as 4K Blu-ray video discs are concerned, I think that will take some years to come to market. For one thing, a higher-capacity physical format would be required. Yes, we have BDXL at 100 GB, but that's currently a recordable data format, not video ROM. And even if a video ROM version was developed, all the replication facilities would have to be updated to produce it. Plus, if history is any indication, the BDA will take a long time to finalize a new spec.

 

In my opinion, downloading is the best way to get 4K content to the home, at least in the short term. Of course, the tricky part will be DRM.

post #4 of 9
Scott,

Here's the problem with downloading... you're at the mercy of the player's storage capacity or, if they allow you to offload films to your own PC, to their DRM strategy (Sony has, in the past, installed rootkits in a computer's registry when you wanted to play content on your PC). This could be all over the map depending on the studio. Once the storage is maxed out and you've payed for these movies to be in your collection... are you going to have to start deleting said files in order to purchase new ones?

What if my hardware crashes? Will these titles always be made available for download?

Look at DVR's from Comcast, DISH, and DirecTV. Once you top off the hard drive with content, you have to delete some of your shows. There's no legal way to back them up. And that's what the studios' lawyers want to have happen.

If you download... will the play time be limited to a certain amount of time? Will they lock out content at some point? If there is litigation pending for a title, will it no longer be made available to download? With a disc... they don't come to your home and confiscate said disc, and usually can't pull discs off the shelves fast enough, so you still have a bit of a safety net. If you have it on disc and it's discontinued, count yourself lucky.

How about cloud storage for the studio content? Storage costs money, so are they going to keep adding movies to their selection or are they going to switch around their offerings?

What is Disney going to do? Start deleting files off their server farm and put their titles back in the vault? They do this with discs... I can only imagine what they'll dream up in a download service.

What about the new DTS/SRS and Dolby Atmos object-oriented soundtrack technologies sound engineers are ga-ga over? Would these be included in said downloads?

Just like DIVX and other PPV schemes that have come and gone... this download-only scheme for UHD seems to be fraught with peril from the consumer's standpoint.

This is what studios have been waiting for and what home theater geeks have long been dreading.

---

Keep the pressure on for a top quality disc based format. It may be our only real hope.
Edited by Dan Hitchman - 1/15/13 at 3:54pm
post #5 of 9
Thread Starter 

Dan,

 

Well, you are certainly correct that there are MANY details that need to be worked out in any 4K distribution system, be it downloading, streaming, or physical disc/memory stick. And what the studios want is often diametrically opposed to what consumers want, which will make it even more difficult to develop. Your questions here are all very good, and only time will tell how it will all play out.

post #6 of 9
Scott,

We have to fight back and start proposing what WE home theater savvy consumers want as the future of entertainment media. The studios would rather us bend over and take it like many times before. I say the time has come to push back before a format is encased in stone. We, after all, are the ones making them billionaires.
post #7 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post

... Netflix was demonstrating 4K streaming in the Samsung booth, which I didn't get to see, but I can't imagine it would look very good, especially on a very large screen, as you point out...

I saw it and it looked bad, a lot artifacts and it looked like HD level of resolution not ultra.
post #8 of 9
I was at CES and met with Red Touch Media. What I see when it comes to UHD/4k content is companies like Red Touch Media not only providing ecosystem-level solutions for home and business when it comes to cloud-based media content management, but also where the user owns the rites to whatever they purchased so they are allowed to download anything from the cloud in perpetuity. That is what RTM does. They can do it because they have a direct relationship with most of the studios, in other words, they are not an aggregator. They said the folks at XBMC met with them and want to engage in talks. That's a good sign. We need to bring live and recorded cable TV, 3rd party tuners, media extenders, HTPC's and whole home streaming solutions into the mix. The company that is first to deliver a real complete ecosystem with the freedom of the user to watch anything, anywhere, on any platform, and in virtually any capacity is going to win big time. I don't know if RTM will accomplish this or some other company, but the technology is available, we just have to get people to behave. I don't know what's more challenging, getting them all to work together or getting congress to.
post #9 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post

The system transmits UHD at 60 frames per second (progressive) using a new codec called HEVC (high-efficiency video coding), aka H.265, which allows the signal to be transmitted at 35 Mbps....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post

As far as 4K Blu-ray video discs are concerned, I think that will take some years to come to market. For one thing, a higher-capacity physical format would be required.

Current Blu-ray video allows for up to 40 Mbps video streams: if H265 can really achieve (near) transparency with 4K at 35 Mbps, no upgrade in disc technology is needed, just new players capable of decoding 4K H265. If, however, you see as much artifacting at 4K with 35 Mbps H265 as you do with typical OTA DTV streams today--well, that's not going to cut it. smile.gif
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