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Better Value then the Klipsch RF-7 II package ideas? - Page 2

post #31 of 209
Just to give you something to look at and If you want a dynamic set of speakers that are also a great bang for the buck, look for 3 Klipsch Chorus II's for your front 3 channels. You will be able to find these on the used market for around $400 a speaker. Buy 2 pair and sell off the 4th for added savings. i know a friend who has done that and has a fantastic home theater using them. They are 101dB at 1 watt. Also look at the Klipsch Forte ll's as well, a little smaller, a little cheaper, but still slammin. Both of these speakers will probably make you quite happy,.
post #32 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImaBenzMan View Post

I am currently a Klipsch owner and have experience with the R7's. I was running a high end Pioneer receiver but just switched to a designated amp and pre-amp. I have the Icon series front and center which sound really nice but have already upgraded my surrounds to the Klipsch RS 52's. So all sounds fantastic but of course its never good enough, is it ? I went to the shop I deal with and 4 of us (for over an hour and a half) sat and demo'd 2 speakers that I am considering. The polk audio rti a9 and the klipsch rf 7ii (to replace my fronts). We used 2 monoblock 400 watt parasound amps running each speaker. (that amp is sick !!) We put the speakers in the same place, played different music, and switched speakers back and forth. At first i really loved the sound and price of the polks. Nice clear clean sound and the speakers looked great. This is a nice choice for speaker. ....but everyone agreed the klipsch were awesome. The sound is incredible. More of a full sound. The winner. But the price is much higher. Here was a selling factor for me. The sensitivity level is like 101db compared to the polk which is like 91db. What did this mean in the real world? It means the polks needed alot more power to get the same sound output as the klipsch. Example...for our test we kept the volume at the same exact level for each speaker test. Switching the wires from the polks to the klipsch was a HUGE difference. We almost had to turn the volume down when switching to the klipsch. Essentially you can run these speakers with a less powerful amp (if you had to) and still get great loud sound. On a side note, no matter what people say, I would never run a system without a designated subwoofer. It doesn't need to be a monster sub. Just needs to be enough to get you those low frequencies that floor standing speakers just can't get. Especially when watching movies. Hope this helps

As already discussed here and discussed at great lengths in other threads, Klipsch sensitivity ratings are greatly exaggerated. They're probably a lot closer to the Polk than you realize.
post #33 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImaBenzMan View Post

.. We put the speakers in the same place, played different music, and switched speakers back and forth.... the polk which is like 91db. What did this mean in the real world? It means the polks needed alot more power to get the same sound output as the klipsch. Example...for our test we kept the volume at the same exact level for each speaker test. Switching the wires from the polks to the klipsch was a HUGE difference. We almost had to turn the volume down when switching to the klipsch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrEastSide View Post

As already discussed here and discussed at great lengths in other threads, Klipsch sensitivity ratings are greatly exaggerated. They're probably a lot closer to the Polk than you realize.

Fwiw, I think a person should level match match speakers when comparing but from Benz dude's description my guess is your are wrong in how close they are.
post #34 of 209
just for an interesting and in depth read, check out this old review of the Klipsch Cornwall and see his sensitivity findings. I seem to be having trouble putting up this link. If it doesn't work, just type in mitjaborko/audiopage3 on google. http://www.google.com/site/mitjaborko/audiopage3
Edited by shivaji - 1/14/13 at 11:43am
post #35 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post


Fwiw, I think a person should level match match speakers when comparing but from Benz dude's description my guess is your are wrong in how close they are.
I don't know about you but I always have my suspicions when a first time poster shows up vigorously defending a product under criticism.
Quote:
just for an interesting and in depth read, check out this old review of the Klipsch Cornwall and see his sensitivity findings
Bad link.
OK, I managed to find it. While it's a well thought out and written review the reviewer's SPL charts are of almost no value, as he measured the speaker in-room. That's not how it's done, other than if you're going about the job of fixing room response via speaker placement, EQ and room treatment.
In any event the sensitivity of the Cornwall loaded with the K33 woofer is 97dB.
Edited by Bill Fitzmaurice - 1/14/13 at 9:47am
post #36 of 209
At the moment my front and center are the Klipsch Icon series from Best Buy which I had got when they were half off. They do sound very nice now that I have my Marantz amp hooked up. Much better then when I had them connected to just my receiver. They are a good speaker for a good price. But I want more. The Polks were great. I did love them. The Klipsch RF 7ll were just so much better sounding. Again, 4 of us there agreed and so did 2 customers that joined us during the comparison. They are about $1k more, so how much you can spend is important. As far as one person claiming that Klipsch over rates the levels of sensitivity, all I can tell you is that there was a big notable difference in the quality and THE ACTUAL VOLUME of the Klipsch over the Polks. All the other variables were the same. The speakers were literally side by side. We went back and forth a number of times. So whoever can claim whatever they want about specs. The company puts it on their products. Complain to them. I have only read very positive reviews of the RF 7ll and most reviews of the Polks all said the same thing. That you need substantial power to get them to sound good. If you can afford the 2 Parasound 400 watt mono block amps that I heard running them, then you'll be super happy. But if you can afford those amps then you would probably spend the money on the Klipsch anyway. I"m sure there are better speakers for more money, and I'm sure there are cheaper speakers that you may enjoy as well. Just giving my opinion on what I heard
post #37 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImaBenzMan View Post

At the moment my front and center are the Klipsch Icon series from Best Buy which I had got when they were half off. They do sound very nice now that I have my Marantz amp hooked up. Much better then when I had them connected to just my receiver. They are a good speaker for a good price. But I want more. The Polks were great. I did love them. The Klipsch RF 7ll were just so much better sounding. Again, 4 of us there agreed and so did 2 customers that joined us during the comparison. They are about $1k more, so how much you can spend is important. As far as one person claiming that Klipsch over rates the levels of sensitivity, all I can tell you is that there was a big notable difference in the quality and THE ACTUAL VOLUME of the Klipsch over the Polks. All the other variables were the same. The speakers were literally side by side. We went back and forth a number of times. So whoever can claim whatever they want about specs. The company puts it on their products. Complain to them. I have only read very positive reviews of the RF 7ll and most reviews of the Polks all said the same thing. That you need substantial power to get them to sound good. If you can afford the 2 Parasound 400 watt mono block amps that I heard running them, then you'll be super happy. But if you can afford those amps then you would probably spend the money on the Klipsch anyway. I"m sure there are better speakers for more money, and I'm sure there are cheaper speakers that you may enjoy as well. Just giving my opinion on what I heard

You definitely sound like a salesman.... Bill has pointed out the facts of the matter. You cant argue against that, sorry.

No one is saying Polk doesn't overstate their sensitivity as well, and the sheer number of people claiming you need a beefy amp to run large Polks makes it clear they arent 8 ohm, receiver friendly speakers (like polk tells you so you arent scared to buy them).
post #38 of 209
Thread Starter 
smile.gif
post #39 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

You definitely sound like a salesman.... Bill has pointed out the facts of the matter. You cant argue against that, sorry.

No one is saying Polk doesn't overstate their sensitivity as well, and the sheer number of people claiming you need a beefy amp to run large Polks makes it clear they arent 8 ohm, receiver friendly speakers (like polk tells you so you arent scared to buy them).

Fwiw, I have no idea if Benz is a salesman but what you wrote doesn't contradict what he said. I also agree with Bill that the in practice the RF-7s aren't 8 Ohm speakers which makes their claim of 101dB/1 meter misleading. That is also why I mentioned level matching with the power source you intend to use when comparing speakers because with a lower end AVR and no amps a person may not be pleased with having RF-7s once they get them home if they heard them with a cleaner power source upon audition. {Note: I have had my RF-7s for 12 years (driven with Denon THX Ultra II AVRs and love them.}
post #40 of 209
No I'm not a salesman. I'm not making any money or trying to sell my opinion even. Only offering my input. I'm not all into stats either. If you feel the manufacturer is misleading then take it up with them. I can tell you what I heard though in my comparison. Zen is right as I wouldn't buy either of the speakers that I tested without a designated amp. You'd be wasting your money. Either of these speakers are for someone who want quality audio and have the ability to pay for it. Some people can only spend maybe $700 on a total package so suggestions would change. Although most of here would say $700 would only cover are back surround speakers and our system wiring. I'm planning on the Klipsch center which is $1200. The icon series center is nice and in sure so are a bunch of other brands too. I'm using a Marantz amp which is great, but now I've heard the Parasound monoblock and want them. It all comes down to how much money you want to spend. For the most part in home theater, you get what you pay for. You can be happy with a Chevy. Some want a Mercedes. And others can afford a Ferarri. They'll all get you where you want to go.... But you bet your a$$ I'd rather be in the Ferarri
post #41 of 209
There are a lot of good brands out there to choose from. I find it helpful when I'm looking at buying a product, that people give honest reviews and their opinions. Also sorry for any typos or word corrections. Hard typing on a little iPhone and autocorrect can be a nightmare lol
post #42 of 209
If your going to look at shelling out R7 bucks...take a look at these bad boys:

tekton-design-pendragon
post #43 of 209
There is no substitute for a Sub if you do HT. I would argue there is no substitute for a sub even for music but I am a Bass guy and LOVE the sub stuff from 16-20ish. I would buy better to go lower...if I could afford it.

My two cents which is worth as much as anyone elses two cents (even professionals) when it comes to what is "good".
post #44 of 209
[quote name="The icon series center is nice and in sure so are a bunch of other brands too. [/quote]

From everything I read the icon series is almost universilly panned. Even the fan boys say to stick with the referance lines.
post #45 of 209
Quote:
There is no substitute for a Sub if you do HT

Amen to that !! I'm partial to SVS cylinder subs myself.


Don't forget that A V Science carrys Klipsch speakers, if any of you are looking for some.
post #46 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post



Don't forget that A V Science carrys Klipsch speakers, if any of you are looking for some.

OMG!
post #47 of 209
Are there better for the money? Is this really a question or someone just being funny? Guys try searching this forum and it will show you the light.
post #48 of 209
Newbie, I and many others have heard the icon series Klipsch and love them. And the price is good. Of course if you are using separate amps the reference series is where to be (if we are sticking with the Klipsch brand). They also have an upper series that only a select few can afford with a $4000 sub in the series. I find that ridiculous. I am also an ex bass guy. I wanted it so loud my teeth would rattle. As I grew older I realized how many people are listening to loud distortion. Not quality audio. When watching movies I want it to feel like the action is in my living room though. I have a great sub that does just that. There are so many variables in choosing your audio, but I have to say the big one is conforming to what the specific listener enjoys. Whether it be thundering loud action in a movie, or clear quality jazz playing. There are different speakers for either. Its like comparing an LED tv to a Plasma. Is either one really better then the other? Depends on the variables. Room lighting, what you watch etc.
post #49 of 209
Thread Starter 
more?
post #50 of 209
The thing is...there is no better "value" than the sound you love. I can give you 50 speakers that cost less..or the same...or slightly more but have better componets or supposedly better sound...but until you listen you will never know.

You are talking a 1600 dollar speaker at retail. There are so many speakers in the 2-3k range that are highly highly rated I would be here all day.

This is JUST my two cents..please take it exactly for what it is worth...

To me the RF-7II had a nice high end...mids were missing and bass was boomy. The sound had no texture...no real definition. It sounded exactly like when you go to a movie theater or out door event...load...clear but lacking detail except at the high end.

That being said more movie theaters use Klipsch than any other brand. Why...well that could be up for debate too... I go with theory (it is just a theory) that high efficency speakers that can get loud and be clear ...is what is most important to large areas like a movie theater or outdoor event.

If your asking me what I would lead you to...wow...I will tell you what I have read (some of what I have heard) and you can see yourself. Nothing like auditioning inyour home... The first two options cost you nothing but your time.

From what you say I would seriously give SVS Ultra a try.

SVS Ultra - 45 day return policy with free shipping both ways.
Aperion 30 day return policy free shipping both ways.
HSU Theater Package (These are horn loaded but much more neutral than a Klipsch soyou may not like them.)
Ascend -- You will have to pay shipping on these though.
Song Tower -- Pay for shipping
Tekton Pendragon
post #51 of 209
Thanks for the info Newbie. You are correct that the Klipsch reference series are pricey and that if one is going to spend that much, they may want to consider other brands as well. I personally miss the stereo shops of last decade. Where every town had a shop where you could demo high end speakers of all different brands. Although there may have been some unfair comparisons because the room dynamics, power and even components were probably way different then ones home were going to be, it was still nice to hear them in person. Not sure if its just the market for them isn't there anymore. Ashame when some are stuck going to a bestbuy or similiar store to try and hear a set of speakers. Especially when they only push their specific brands they carry. And because everyone's desire, ears, room, components and budget are different it does become really hard to tell somebody which way to go. Like you said, each one of us can offer an opinion and maybe learn from each other and even try out a product that we normally may not have.
post #52 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newbie01 View Post


That being said more movie theaters use Klipsch than any other brand.
Not anything that even vaguely resembles what's in their consumer line. As for the theater market share, I believe JBL holds that title.
Quote:
I go with theory (it is just a theory) that high efficency speakers that can get loud and be clear ...is what is most important to large areas like a movie theater or outdoor event.
Klipsch consumer isn't high efficiency, aside from the tweeters. They skew their claimed sensitivity figures to make it look that way. Other than the tweeters they're no more efficient than any other speakers using similar woofer complements. Klipsch Heritage and Klipsch Cinema are high efficiency.
post #53 of 209
These Pi Speakers look really interesting. They look like Klipsch Heritage type speakers, but a bit more affordable, and the Klipsch Heritage speakers are easily the best sounding Klipsch, not to mention the only honestly spec'd ones. I have heard and liked the RF-7s, but I would sooner give some equivalently priced Pi speakers a try.
post #54 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Not anything that even vaguely resembles what's in their consumer line. As for the theater market share, I believe JBL holds that title.
Klipsch consumer isn't high efficiency, aside from the tweeters. They skew their claimed sensitivity figures to make it look that way. Other than the tweeters they're no more efficient than any other speakers using similar woofer complements. Klipsch Heritage and Klipsch Cinema are high efficiency.

Well...I just learned some more! I didn't know Klipsch skewed their efficiency rating.

I also didn't know JBL holds the market share. I thought Klipsch had the lead... As far as being different technology I am sure you are right... My understanding was that Klipsch are all horn loaded and first came their commercial line..then came a consumer line vaguely modled after their commercial lines.

That being said I have read about Heritage (I saw allot of compliants over recent quality changes to the Heritage line...) I have not read or saw anything on the Cinema line (although there is a reason my tag name is Newb01...I got ALLOT to learn.)

My recommendations still stand though...I think they are solid recommendations backed by good return policies and allot of reviews. I just put in an order for a pair of Phil 2's. http://philharmonicaudio.com/philharmonicaudio/philpages/floorstanding.html


SVS Ultra - 45 day return policy with free shipping both ways.
Aperion 30 day return policy free shipping both ways.
HSU Theater Package (These are horn loaded but much more neutral than a Klipsch so you may not like them.)
Ascend -- You will have to pay shipping on these though.
Song Tower -- Pay for shipping
Phil 1,2 or 3
Tekton Pendragon
post #55 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newbie01 View Post

My understanding was that Klipsch are all horn loaded
This is horn loaded:



This is not:
post #56 of 209
My horn-loaded HT (sub in avatar).. Very affordable in the used market.
post #57 of 209
"Klipsch measures sensitivity on home loudspeakers in the following manner:
1. We place the speaker to be tested in our anechoic chamber and do a free space measurement (no boundary gain or room gain) at a distance of 3 meters. This distance is chosen in order to be in the far field of the speaker. The test signal used is wide band pink noise.
2. Starting with this result in dB, we add 9 dB to obtain a one-meter equivalency, as the industry standard for expressing sensitivity is one meter. The 9 dB difference is all inverse-square gain. Move half as far away and gain 6 dB etc.
3. To this we add 4 dB for room gain and boundary gain to translate the measurement to a typical listening environment. Speakers are not operated in free space in any normal application. An increase in sound pressure comes from proximity to nearby walls, floor and ceiling. Theoretically, a maximum of 18 dB increase is available through corner placement but that is rarely the position chosen for full range loudspeakers; and the increase is also frequency dependent, being prominent at low frequencies. Additional measurable increase comes from room gain wherein the room is pressurized by low frequency information. Again, this is frequency dependent impacting only the low end of the spectrum. We have verified the 4 dB figure we use in numerous empirical measurements and believe it to be quite accurate."
post #58 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

This is horn loaded:



This is not:
Ummm, both are horn loaded. The heritage is fully horn loaded while the reference speakers use horn-loaded compression-driver technology.
post #59 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vital View Post

the reference speakers use horn-loaded compression-driver technology.
Not for the bass, which was his point.
post #60 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by psgcdn View Post

Not for the bass, which was his point.

I read it the same way vital did. He said this is horn loaded and this is not (which is untrue but whatever rolleyes.gif ). He never says horn loaded for bass.
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