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Lilmike's LilWrecker - Page 11

post #301 of 525
It appears that the 1000 also has an adjustable low pass filter that works on channel one, which is the same channel you'd use for bridged output. If the low pass filter works while bridged, I believe I'll go this route.
post #302 of 525
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

If you need more? You get what you pay for - but you're stepping up to the $300/driver range. You're also heading into uncharted territory, as most folks are building with the SWS and SI drivers now, I'm not aware of anyone using the Fi Q or Sundown, and I'm concerned that the larger drivers may not even fit into the horn's mouth. I have not tested either, and have no direct experience with either.

.

Are you sure the LMS5400 will fit in the mouth?
post #303 of 525
He probably means LMS-R and not the 5400 as that is an 18"er.
post #304 of 525
Thread Starter 
Hmmm, OK, where to begin...

I have no direct experience with the SA1000, or the latest version of it. I based my opinion and suggestion on what others have measured and reported.

I have a friend using the Crown with the LilWrecker, no issues with early rolloff, though he's using a MiniDSP for crossover and EQ.

The MiniDSP does a lot more than a proper highpass. EQ is not really optional with a tapped horn, especially when you put it into a room.

I do not know the limits or functionality of the crossovers within the Crown amps, I have no direct experience with them. I have several friends that recommend the amps highly, including one that is using the crossovers to handle a fully active setup. A quick look at the XLS manual suggests that the crossover has a minimum frequency of 50 Hz, which is of limited utility here.

For clarification, when I say 5400, I am referring to the TC LMS 5400 15, not the LMS Ultra 5400 18. I try to refer to the Ultra as the Ultra, LMS-U or the LMS Ultra. When I refer to the LMS-R, I try to state LMS-R.

The practical limit to the driver depth in this iteration of the LilWrecker is 11 inches. The LMS-R will fit, the Ultra will not (for a number of reasons), I'm not sure about the LMS-5400, as I've never measured one. I am pretty sure that the Fi Q will fit, but I doubt the Sundown Zv3 will.

Like I said in the first post - I designed this one around using all of the space that radman12 had available behind his screen wall and the CVX 15, because at the time, they were quite a value. Fortunately, other drivers work well in this cabinet too.
post #305 of 525
I was hoping you had measured one and remembered it, unlike me! I have this vague recollection of 11 1/8", but I will have to pull one out of its enclosure and measure before embarking on the ultimate LilWrecker build.
post #306 of 525
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatawan View Post

I was hoping you had measured one and remembered it, unlike me! I have this vague recollection of 11 1/8", but I will have to pull one out of its enclosure and measure before embarking on the ultimate LilWrecker build.

Nope - just my CVXs.

Wish I had better drivers, but not at the moment.

Some day....
post #307 of 525
I just got off the phone with Crown technical support. They said the 1000 has a selectable, adjustable low pass and high pass filter. Either will work in the bridged mode. It also starts rolling off 6dB/octave below 20 Hz. Looks like it should work in my application.
post #308 of 525
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cecaa850 View Post

I just got off the phone with Crown technical support. They said the 1000 has a selectable, adjustable low pass and high pass filter. Either will work in the bridged mode. It also starts rolling off 6dB/octave below 20 Hz. Looks like it should work in my application.

Has something changed? The manual I reviewed indicated that:

"The PureBand™ Crossover System provides a variable state Linkwitz-Riley 24dB/octave fi lter allowing you to choose a point
between 50Hz and 3kHz on 1/12th octave centers. The following points are available for choice:

50Hz, 53Hz, 56Hz, 59Hz, 63Hz, 66Hz, 70Hz, 74Hz, 79Hz, 83Hz, 88Hz, 94Hz, 99Hz, 105Hz, 111Hz, 118Hz, 125Hz,
132Hz, 140Hz, 149Hz, 157Hz, 167Hz, 177Hz, 187Hz, 198Hz, 210Hz, 223Hz, 236Hz, 250Hz, 265Hz, 281Hz, 297Hz,
315Hz, 334Hz, 354Hz, 375Hz, 397Hz, 420Hz, 472Hz, 500Hz, 530Hz, 561Hz, 595Hz, 630Hz, 667Hz, 707Hz, 749Hz,
794Hz, 841Hz, 891Hz, 944Hz, 1.00kHz, 1.06kHz, 1.12kHz, 1.19kHz, 1.26kHz, 1.33kHz, 1.41kHz, 1.50kHz, 1.59kHz,
1.68kHz, 1.78kHz, 1.89kHz, 2.00kHz, 2.12kHz, 2.24kHz, 2.38kHz, 2.52kHz, 2.67kHz, 2.83kHz, 3.00kHz..."

Seems to me that there is no option to high-pass below 50 Hz there, and the amp's 6 dB/oct rolloff below 20 Hz isn't really a highpass filter.

That being said - I just took a look at the simulation, and in this case, it might just work.

For some reason, I can't get the screen-shot to embed, but it appears that the amp's roll-off might keep the driver within xmech at full tilt.

Not how I'd recommend doing things, and not how I'd run mine personally though.
post #309 of 525
I was more concerned with having a low pass filter as 16Hz is as low as the box will need to go.
post #310 of 525
Hopefully the tech on the other end of my call wasn't just telling me what he thought I wanted to hear.
post #311 of 525
I'm running a Crown XLS 1000 to drive my 1 LilWrecker (eek.gifcool.gifbiggrin.gifcool.gifeek.gif) with an Alpine driver. The lowest my XLS 1000 will run a crossover is 50Hz. Rather than using the Crown crossovers I run a miniDSP that LilMike helped me to properly setup in my room (aka. floor of my house, cul de sac).

I have a soft spot for Crown amps since they are based out of Indiana and I am originally from Indiana (though they are in the opposite end of the state from where I grew up). But I love my Crown amps. Back in a previous career when I was an engineer we used Crown amps for all kinds of power applications they were not designed to handle but they were honey badgers (to be more detailed, we've ran these suckers at near DC requiring gobs of current out of them and they did it without releasing the magic smoke -- it wasn't the XLS series but the folks at Crown appear to know what they're doing).

I use one XLS 1000 for my LilWrecker and an XLS 1500 for my Klipsch RF-7iis. They run cool as can be and I've had no problems after long hours at full trot.
post #312 of 525
Any Dayton subs work in this design?
post #313 of 525
Thread Starter 
The Reference HO 15 isn't bad, and the DVC 15 models OK too. In this cabinet, they're both at their linear limits by 250 watts though.

Unless you've got the drivers already, there are better choices for the $$, it is really hard to beat the value of the Alpine Type S right now.
post #314 of 525
Dayton ulimax 15?
post #315 of 525
Ultimax doesn't have enough motor strength for tapped horns. Good in the f20 though.
post #316 of 525
Thanks for the responses. Alpine looks like the winner.
post #317 of 525
Well this thread has made me conflicted. I was 99% sure I was building the annihilator with two Dayton ho 18s (large ported from another thread) but now I found this gem. I have the amp power (2 behringer inuke 6000s if needed) but wanted to know what would be better for movies and music. I'm looking for serious output and extension to 16 hz or so. I can source the Daytons for cheap. Thoughts?

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1494135/annihilation-sub-coming-soon
post #318 of 525
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebuckaman View Post

Well this thread has made me conflicted. I was 99% sure I was building the annihilator with two Dayton ho 18s (large ported from another thread) but now I found this gem. I have the amp power (2 behringer inuke 6000s if needed) but wanted to know what would be better for movies and music. I'm looking for serious output and extension to 16 hz or so. I can source the Daytons for cheap. Thoughts?

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1494135/annihilation-sub-coming-soon

Getting the drivers cheap counts, but that is of no value if they're not the right driver for the cabinet in question. In the case of the Alpine-based builds, generally speaking, the wood has been the expensive part of this project for most folks. There are no Dayton drivers I'd currently recommend (or they'd be listed in the first post).

When it comes to a tapped horn like this, building the right cabinet, but putting the wrong driver into it is a recipe for less than stellar results. Sealed boxes are easy, a wide range of drivers will work fine. Ported cabinets narrow the focus a bit, the driver and cabinet have to be appropriately matched. Horns and tapped horns are even more picky when it comes to matching the driver specs to the cabinet, and when it goes "wrong", it's definitely wrong.

Nearly any driver can be made to work in nearly any cabinet, but just because you can doesn't mean you should. Some drivers work better in some cabinet types, for example, drivers that tend to work well in a tapped horn don't usually work well in a front loaded or offset-driver horn. Fortunately, there are a few options for drivers for the LilWrecker, they're detailed in the first post. Only a few of the drivers have actually tested and are known to work, those are also indicated.

The Dayton drivers I looked at a few posts ago are a bit light on motor force, and more importantly, they run out of excursion quickly in the simulations, leaving a LOT of the available power handling unusable due to the excursion limits being reached first. That said, reality may not match the simulations. I've never tried the Daytons, I tend not to buy a driver that models poorly in the cabinet I'm planning to build.
post #319 of 525
My apologies for my info lacking post. I would use the alpines if I go with the lilwrecker. That is not why I mentioned the Dayton's. Dayton's for the dual big ported. Just wanted to post that info on the Dayton's to show that total cost will likely be the same no matter which project I pick. I am just looking for best performance.
Edited by thebuckaman - 11/10/13 at 6:52pm
post #320 of 525
I'm going to build one starting this week. Alpine type s ordered.
post #321 of 525
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebuckaman View Post

I'm going to build one starting this week. Alpine type s ordered.

You'll love it.
post #322 of 525
Finding decent plywood has become an issue. All of the stuff at HD and Lowes is nasty. I don't need furniture quality, but the stuff I saw had major gaps and flaking. Where to get decent plywood? What are some good rules to go by?
post #323 of 525
Thread Starter 
Where are you? The "midwest" is a big place.

I've had better luck at the actual lumberyards than at a hardware store or big box store.
post #324 of 525
Central Illinois. I just found some nice stuff online at a somewhat local lumberyard....yikes $104 a sheet!eek.gif
post #325 of 525
Wow! It ought to come in the form of pre-built subwoofer enclosures for that price!eek.gif
post #326 of 525
Look for arauco ply at menards
post #327 of 525
Quote:
Originally Posted by stormwind13 View Post

Look for arauco ply at menards
+1
Menards is my go to place for good quality ply at cheap prices.
post #328 of 525
Our Lowe's carries several variations of hardwood 3/4 ply for $50-55.
post #329 of 525
Mike, is it possible to have the mouth exit out of the sides instead of the end?
post #330 of 525
1: Pretty sure I spotted Arauco ply at menards a couple months back at 39 a sheet.

2: I believe a side exit mouth would require a refold of the horn. Maybe not though.
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