Paradigm studio vs. Salk Songtower ! - Page 2

This thread has derailed, my bad.

Interesting.....I own Studio 100s and have heard the Songtowers. I would rate my Studios well below the Salks. I think they give my Signature S8s a good run with each speaker having relative strengths and weaknesses. Good point about listening before buying whenever possible. Comes down to personal preference in many cases. Part of what makes this hobby interesting or frustrating depending on your point of view.

The inverse square law is correct in an an-echoic space. Your listening area is not likely to be one.

I refer you back to post #7 by me "you'll loose 3db-6db everytime you double distance."

Actually: if they are close enough to sum it's +6db. You gain +3db for efficiency and another +3db for power-handling.

But that assumes that they are putting out the same signal. It would apply to a mono source to dual speakers.

So, let's go back to "reference level"

" Reference Level, 85dB SPL with 20dB of headroom." - http://www.thx.com/consumer/thx-technology/thx-reference-level/

So when we discuss 105db, we are discussing peaks, which Bill has said are "little effect[ed]" by power compression.

We are talking about Studio 60s? - http://www.stereophile.com/content/paradigm-reference-studio-60-v5-loudspeaker-measurements

I doubt it. Between power compression and driver excursion I wouldn't count on any speaker having a real output capability in excess of half it's thermal power rating. That makes a 100w rated speaker good for perhaps 17dB above its 1w sensitivity, with no headroom.

do you deny that internet dealers do not tend to hype up their products, there are some really good products from internet dealers, return policy's are great, but in my case with the songtowers all I was offered was assistance to sell them wich never happened, all I am saying is if you can't audition, you are rolling the dice.

I would like to say that i had spend almost a year reading about speakers and read so many suggestions on what speakers to buy because i could not go audition but a few.
Recently i funded a dedicated speaker auditioning for my buddies and myself and was absolutely floored on some of the crap speakers out there.
I will not ever go by someone's suggestion anymore unless they are describing a higher end or lower end model of a speaker that i have already heard and they can describe it the same way i do.

Is there a thread devoted to that, or was it just a private gathering?

I'm not quite sure what this post has to do with the topic of this thread.

88+17 = 105.. and that's a sustained rating. The THX standard is 80db sustained and 105db peaks.
So if a 17db limit is the result of "power compression", then we *do* have some dynamic headroom for those peaks after all. (again ignoring that it's a thermal limit and the physical limit is higher to begin with)

We could worry about driver excursion but the area that's most likely to kick in is at the bottom of the FR range, which is likely lower than we are asking the speaker to really produce anyway (due to a subwoofer), and also the area where distortion would be least noticeable.

And all of this assumes that the manufacturer hasn't been honest in the first place: which Bill has repeatedly claimed but not shown true.
Edited by JerryLove - 1/17/13 at 6:11am

So much for "not trying to start an argument" huh?

I don't see the direct-sale builders hype their products more than B&M builders.

I highly recommend auditioning wherever possible. Jim Salk actively helps people looking to audition find owners nearby willing to let people come listen. He also attends many audio shows every year to give more people the opportunity to listen. At the one I found him at, he even had a level-matching speaker switcher and invited me to bring my own gear to A/B compare.

Return policies go a long way towards hedging that dice roll. Salk has a return policy on standard veneers. If you order a custom-built speaker with a custom veneer then he won't take a return (who would?). I can understand someone not buying a speaker because they had not auditioned it. That's prudent (though it can also lead to missing out on a gem)

If you like your Paradigms more that's fine and valid. Not everyone will have the same taste. I didn't, haven't, and won't say "your wrong, they don't sound better to you".

You want to ruin another thread with your personal opinions that were discussed at length in the other thread? And why they were flawed?

If just Salk vs Paradigm, I would personally go with Salk.

But I agree that KEF (& Revel) should be compared as well.

That was my thought when I auditioned the Studio100v3. I blamed it on the rain.......I mean the room.

The dealer thought the 100s sounded great, but I thought they sounded muddy. Maybe he was lying. Maybe our perceptions differed. Maybe the 100s would sound much better in my room.

The KEY is, is everyone comparing speakers in the SAME ROOM w/ the same setup (direct mode vs Audyssey) ?

It's called B I A S.

The room & placement play a huge part.

And people will naturally favor the speaker with more bass.

Appplying my bass SPL calculator:

Studio 100 v5: 3 each 7 inch woofers.

http://www.paradigm.com/products/products-by-category/floorstanding/paradigm-reference/studio-series/studio-100

SongTower :

http://www.salksound.com/songtower%20specifications.htm

2 Seas ER15RLY midwoofers

http://www.seas.no/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=107&Itemid=129

5" cone, 10 mm Xmax

Songtower

Freq,Hz Max SPL, DB

10 71
20 83
30 90
40 95
50 99
60 102
70 104
80 107
90 109
100 111
110 112
120 114
130 115
140 116
150 118
160 119
170 120

Paradigm Studio 100 with 3 each 7" cone drivers, presume 10 mm Xmax

Freq,Hz Max SPL, DB

10 80
20 92
30 99
40 104
50 108
60 111
70 114
80 116
90 118
100 120
110 122
120 123
130 125
140 126
150 127
160 128
170 129

I've never auditioned the Paradigm in my room. I think that is a HUGE factor as well.

Yes, I think the ONLY TRUE way to compare speakers is side-by-side in the same room & setup in 2.1 stereo mode using the same subs to even the playing field. That way you are only comparing the midrange & treble since most of us will use subs.

+1

Well said.

I think the "better" instrument separation speakers used Audioquest cables and the KEF used Monoprice cables.

Why is it that, when asked "Speaker A or B", there are always numerous posters ignoring the question to focus on their own pet brand C, D, or E?

True, but in fairness on the opening post it added "OR anything else?"

Very good. I missed that too.

Yes, anything else would be KEF & Revel & Dynaudio (made in Denmark), Focal (made in France), Amphion (made in Finland), ATC (made in England), etc.

A fair point. I withdraw the complaint.

ruin another thread? all because i gave my opinion on speakers that i heard. How were they proven to be flawed?
So i think the revel performa3 M105's were bland, had an unnatural way of imaging and they had a sweet spot not larger than the width of my head?don't think anyone proved me wrong on that and if they did then it's all a matter of personal opinion. Other than a nice finish, i think they are a waste of money sound wise when compared to the other speakers i had heard that day.

and i don't know why i post about not believing anyones advise on speakers. I think i read the post above mine wrong. I don't know, i have fever and it's kicking my ass. I can admit when i'm wrong. sorry

i like how some people pop up out of no where to offend you when they find it easiest to do after they read someone getting piled up on by people who love a brand and will tell someone they are wrong when they haven't even heard the speaker lol.
I was just trying to help people out.

Have you had your medications today?

LOL!

SPL calcutaor link:

http://www.doctorproaudio.com/doctor/calculadores_en.htm


because two speakers are in phase the right answer is 102 dB at 4 m distance