audio or video just not at the same time

you are not very clear on what you mean by primary versus secondary sets??? Anyways, the settings for the avr for output hdmi are set for each output independently so if you want the same thing (ie. video and audio out on both outputs), you need to set that on both outputs. Past that, you need to clarify what you mean by primary and secondary.

ok... but now you need to be more specific about the signal path for each set. Are all of them attached to the giffen splitter??? or is one attached to the other output of the marantz???

First, let's level set the discussion. HDMI does not use a separate line for audio and a separate line for video. The bitstream for audio is contained within the overall bitstream of data. The same with video. So you really can't have "no audio" in the stream. It may be null data but something must fill the data range where audio should be.

Second, if the Marantz is like the Denon (same company), the selection is between Amp assigned audio and TV assigned audio. There's a big difference between that and what you wrote. What "assigned" does is to geneate audio based on the destination (sink or AVR) device. So, if you select Amp then you get multichannel and if you select TV you get strereo (for the most part). There are very few TVs that can accept multichannel and therefore if you select amp assigned, you'll send up getting audio that the TV cannot understand.

If you want to run a S/PDIF digital audio (coax or optical) all the way to your TV and your TV has a digital audio input, then that would be a valid method of getting audio to your TV all of the time. But, you have to make sure that from source to sink the audio will always be available over S/PDIF. You have to also make sure that you only send a S/PDIF signal that the TV understands (likely stereo). I forget on the Marantz but most AVRs do not take the HDMI audio and then send the core audio over S/PDIF. It must be a separate S/PDIF line running into the receiver.

Really what you need is a receiver with HDMI passthru that would allow the HDMI signal to be configured for TV when the AVR is in standby (off). There are also HDMI matrix switchers and other dedicated HDMI boxes that will generate S/PDIF audio from the HDMI audio output. Finally, some of the newest AVRs include two independent HDMI outputs. However that means the same source cannot be used for both outputs since each source can only generate one audio and one video signal at any time.

Thanks for the improved clarity. As Andy has replied, there are a lot of things going on here. Not knowing a lot about the "tool box" (or other things for that matter), how are you adding your "sinks" (ie. sets)... is everything turned off and then plugged up or is everything running and you are plugging into active units? I suspect that you might be falling into the "changing things on the fly trap" trap... :-). You might want to unplug (pull power on everything).... connect all your hdmi cabling, etc... Then power up your sinks, then power up tool box, then power up receiver and darby ... I think that is the valid order. I hope and suspect that things will be different.... of course, in front of this, make sure that the options in the marantz and tool box are set the way you want / think they should be. That's my guess of your best option.... the guess is based on the fact that you appear to be able to "toggle" things in a "strange fashion".... this seems to indicate that perhaps the operating systems are taking "on the fly" changes and just "flipping" them as opposed to "read, digest, if its a change, take an action, if not leave things alone" type logic..... :-)
Edited by budwich - 1/14/13 at 8:07am

Your point about the tool box is a good one. I've seen "tool boxes" that change the EDID in an attempt to force a particular configuration. They are only partially effective since, if you try this, one (or more) of the sinks usually end up with incompatible video or incompatible audio. It all goes back to only having one video and one audio stream at any given time.

Unfortunately even an AVR that would take the multichannel input and downconvert to stereo audio would be useless since it would have to be powered-on all of the time. If the AVR is already on, why bother using the TV speakers (unless in another zone)?

I'm curious, too, about what "tool box" is being used here.

Think you are confusing folk when referring to the ‘main display sound’ – you mean the AVR!

The simplest thing to say here is ‘no it won’t work the way you want it to work!.

What are the Source devices you wish to use as ‘whole house’ sources?

Joe

Unfortunately HDMI doesn't work the way you want it to. Remember only one audio and one video stream at a single time. So, if your source sends multichannel, then it cannot send stereo as well. Most TVs (even projectors with no speakers) indicate that they are stereo sinks. So, if they receive multichannel audio they don't know what to do with it. If the source sends stereo then the TVs can understand the audio but you (obviously) don't get multichannel.

Some TVs will indicate they can receiver Dolby Digital signals. Then Dolby Digital 5.1 can be sent to all devices.

When you are looking at this, remember only one type of audio signal at any time in the cable and the source generates the audio.

No. I certainly didn't say that. Odd that you didn't understand that.

Let me simplify. Only one audio stream and one video stream can come from any source at any time. How many times it gets split after that is irrelevent. It's just you are stuck with one audio stream going to as many sinks as you would like with splitters. You can't have multichannel *and* stereo going at the same time.

And, you can't combine sources at the same time. One audio and one video stream at any time only.

Sounds like a full power off (unplug from AC power) / wait 5 seconds / power on is in order for all components (sources and sinks).

Now you have me confused. You said the cable box is no longer working but the only way to see the Darbee is using the cable box?

The 8003 is a good unit and has (as you know) four HDMI inputs and two HDMI outputs. What happens if you just use the two outputs (no splitter or Darbee) to two TVs? What happens if you then add just the Darbee between the Marantz and one TV/projector? What happens if you don't use the Darbee but use the Marantz and the splitter?

Maybe if you could summarize those conditions we all might understand your setup better. I'm also trying to see how much of an effect the splitter is having on the EDIDs. You also mentioned "splitters" earlier. Do you have multiple splitters (with the exception of the Marantz preprocessor) in the system or just the one Gefen?

If you get the typical cable company repair guy, you're going to cause his/her head to spin (with smoke coming out) when they see your setup.
Edited by alk3997 - 1/15/13 at 11:38am

I would 'split' the HDMI Out signal of the Whole House sources before they get to the AVR and unless you are willing to replace all of the 'secondary' TV's with TV's which support 5.1/7.1 via HDMI (look for SRS TrueSurround HD) set the Sources to Video + 2.0 audio plus use Optical or Coaxial from those Sources into the AVR for DD/DTS in the Main Zone.

Trying to split, process (and potentially split again) the Output of the AVR and hope your kit will all auto switch between 2.0 and 5.1 via HDMI depending on the 'state' of the AVR is a pipe dream.

Joe

About the Blu-Ray audio -

Blu-Ray HD audio (LPCM 96/24, DTS-HD MA and Dolby TrueHD) are only available via HDMI or the analog audio outputs. The only difference between the analog and HDMI outputs is that the digital to analog decode is done in the player for analog outputs and is done in the receiver for HDMI. That means that you'll have an extra A-->D step with the analog but those are 192/24 D/As and A/Ds in the Marantz so I'd challenge if anyone could really hear artifacts from that conversion. The other key with using the analog outputs is you want to only use the bass management in the Marantz and never in the Blu-Ray player. So, pretty much set all speakers to large in the Blu-Ray player with no delays and equal levels. Then set the "real world" settings in the Marantz. Bottom line is that, if handled correctly, your 7.1-channel analog audio outputs will sound the same as the HDMI audio. Of course, I'm assuming the Blu-Ray D/A converter is on-par with the Marantz's.

If you were to use optical or coax S/PDIF instead, any Dolby True HD would be transmitted as Dolby Digital and DTS-HD MA would be the "core" DTS signal instead. Better than a DVD but not as good as what Blu-Ray can deliver. The cable box, however, will provide an equal signal over S/PDIF optical or coax since the best cable boxes can do is Dolby Digital or 48/16 LPCM. Both of those formats can be sent via S/PDIF with no changes.

As long as you have the Marantz set to passthru, you will only have one option for multichannel and that is the 7.1-channel analog audio inputs (only option without changing a bunch of menu settings). I'm assuming your Blu-Ray player can send stereo over HDMI and at the same time send 7.1-channel outputs over the analog plugs. Some can, some can't.

HDMI will not help you with it set to passthru since the source would still have to send stereo over HDMI. If it did, I would have recommended an OPPO BDP-103 with its independent HDMI outputs. But, that won't help.

Wouldn't using the 7.1-channel analog outputs also solve your Darbee issue? You could then run the Blu-Ray into the Marantz with audio set to "External Input" and you would run through the Darbee.

That's a separate issue from the Blu-Ray audio. What are your four inputs to the Marantz? I know two of the ones you want are the Blu-Ray and the Cable Box. What are the other two inputs?

If I understand your cable box routing (the way you want it) is Cable Box --> Marantz --> Darbee --> Gefen Tool Box --> TVs Is this correct?

If it is correct, does Cable Box --> Darbee --> Gefen Tool Box --> TV work? It should if the Marantz is the problem. If it is an interface problem, then removing any single item in the middle part of the chain (Darbee, Gefen, Marantz) will make it work.

You're right. We're just repeating things (although you might try rereading that part about any single item - not just the Marantz).

Good luck.