or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › News Forum › Latest Industry News › Panasonic ZT60 Plasma at CES 2013
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Panasonic ZT60 Plasma at CES 2013 - Page 9

post #241 of 366
Looks like the Samsung F8500 will give this Panasonic a run for their money. These reviewers are confident it will surpass the Kuro. I'll believe it when I see it. http://m.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/is-samsungs-f8500-plasma-a-kuro-killer/
post #242 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porfie View Post

Looks like the Samsung F8500 will give this Panasonic a run for their money. These reviewers are confident it will surpass the Kuro. I'll believe it when I see it. http://m.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/is-samsungs-f8500-plasma-a-kuro-killer/

They saw the same TV I did, and there's a chance. The blacks are not just deep, the deep grays are incredible neutral. The shoot outs are coming, soon enough.
Edited by imagic - 4/1/13 at 5:27pm
post #243 of 366
Measurements thus far in the black level dept. don't bear that out ("Kuro killer"). I'm betting more on the ZT60 at this point. The F8500 is definitely brighter and would likely surpass it in all viewing environments aside from a batcave. smile.gif
Edited by vinnie97 - 4/1/13 at 5:29pm
post #244 of 366
Panasonic has said the ZT series will be limited. How limited I wonder? Will it be really hard to find any dealer that actually has any to sell after they are released?
post #245 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigmoviefan View Post

Panasonic has said the ZT series will be limited. How limited I wonder? Will it be really hard to find any dealer that actually has any to sell after they are released?

That's probably (as in pure speculation) because Panasonic is planning on considering shutting down their Japan-based plasma manufacturing facilities. So, call it a "limited edition" or call it "end of the line". Same thing. I sincerely doubt Panasonic would turn away potential buyers for any of their TVs; if the demand is there, it will be met.
Edited by imagic - 4/4/13 at 2:04pm
post #246 of 366
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

Thank you Scott for reminding me of SED. I never got the chance to really learn about SED. Do you have any info on SED you can share?


SED stands for Surface-conduction Electron-emitter Display. Each subpixel was a microscopic electron gun firing at a red, green, or blue phosphor dot. As a result, it had the blacks, contrast, viewing angle, and response time of a CRT in a flat-panel form factor. I saw prototypes at several shows, such as CES and CEDIA, and they were a wonder to behold. Sadly, this technology bit the dust before it ever came to market because of legal wrangling between Canon, Toshiba, and Applied Nanotech, which held some patents related to SED manufacturing. Apparently, Applied Nanotech had granted a manufacturing license to Canon, but when Canon entered into a partnership with Toshiba to develop the technology, Applied Nanotech cried foul. Aside from the legal rumble, the economic downturn in 2008 put the final nail in SED's coffin; Canon announced the end of SED development in 2010. Now it's up to OLED to carry the next-generation flat-panel banner.

post #247 of 366
Thank you, Scott!!
post #248 of 366
Thanks for that history lesson on SED. Unfortunately, OLED has barely made it out the gate and is sputtering something fierce.
post #249 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

That's probably (as in pure speculation) because Panasonic is planning on considering shutting down their Japan-based plasma manufacturing facilities. So, call it a "limited edition" or call it "end of the line". Same thing. I sincerely doubt Panasonic would turn away potential buyers for any of their TVs; if the demand is there, it will be met.

My understanding is that it will in fact be limited, but only in the sense that it will not (and mostly because of the manufacturing process, cannot) be produced in the same volume as say the VT's or ST's.
post #250 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by pred1973 View Post

My understanding is that it will in fact be limited, but only in the sense that it will not (and mostly because of the manufacturing process, cannot) be produced in the same volume as say the VT's or ST's.

So basically, it will only be limited if demand outstrips supply. I'm sure Panasonic is crossing their fingers, even though it's hard to imagine a sudden rush by consumers to buy a (relatively) expensive plasma TV, no matter how well reviewed it is. Plasma's "comeback" was tied to the financial crash when inches per dollar became the prime consideration for big-screen TV shoppers.
Edited by imagic - 4/5/13 at 8:27am
post #251 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishniknork View Post

Since 2008 full screen whites have become increasingly more dim. It's not that a plasma can't display stunning whites, the manufacturers just won't give them to us any more.
Here's some photo's I took comparing my old TH50-PZ850U from 2008 to the 2011 TC-P65VT30 that I returned for that very reason. I bought a gently used TH65-PZ850U instead and am very happy with it. The newer plasmas are great if all you watch is dark stuff or sit-coms and talk shows but scenes of snow-capped mountains and light blue skies or images with mostly white backgrounds don't look natural anymore to me.

Which one would you guys rather watch?

2008 850U:


2011 65VT30:
That's nasty!
post #252 of 366
are they both calibrated screens? if yes, when were they calibrated?
post #253 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

So basically, it will only be limited if demand outstrips supply. I'm sure Panasonic is crossing their fingers, even though it's hard to imagine a sudden rush by consumers to buy a (relatively) expensive plasma TV, no matter how well reviewed it is. Plasma's "comeback" was tied to the financial crash when inches per dollar became the prime consideration for big-screen TV shoppers.

Well, the Panasonic GT50 and VT50 were already completely out of stock by the 3rd week of December 2012 in Canada... and those are the ones considered as the non-Limited Edition TVs.
post #254 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

Well, the Panasonic GT50 and VT50 were already completely out of stock by the 3rd week of December 2012 in Canada... and those are the ones considered as the non-Limited Edition TVs.

Well, that's not good. So much for my hypothesis that Panasonic would meet demand because they need the cash. eek.gif
post #255 of 366
I think Panasonic is too cautious in the number of Tv they ordered from Japan.

The same thing now happens to Pioneer SC-68 receivers. Unless your dealers have them in stock, you can't order to replenish anymore in Canada... And they're still about 5 months away from the replacement of Sc-68 to arrive. Top of the line stuff tend to go out of stock much earlier in Canada to the point that the pricing never got the chance to be dropped due to the high demand.
post #256 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

Well, the Panasonic GT50 and VT50 were already completely out of stock by the 3rd week of December 2012 in Canada... and those are the ones considered as the non-Limited Edition TVs.

Don't know where you are getting your number from, but I could have gotten 65VT50's as close as 3 weeks ago. My dealer had a sale on them and had multiple units, I know because I called to ask about him having any F8500's on display because I wanted to lay eyeballs on it and he told me he was making room and had to clear out his VT stock first. I'm in Ottawa.

Ditto the SC-68 .... , I can go right now and pick up a SC-68 locally in Ottawa. I am returning my 75ES9000 for a 65ZT60 when they are released and with the chunk o dough left over from that (75ES9000 sticker was 10K, price on the ZT is 5K) I am tossing up getting a SC-68 and asked about it, and was told "no problem, I've got some here when you are ready".
Edited by pred1973 - 4/5/13 at 12:35pm
post #257 of 366

Let'  see when it comes out if the demand is that great! I want a true 4K projector along with that :)

post #258 of 366
The ZT60 better be something really special because the ST60 looks mighty good at a substantially lower price. Several big improvements with the ST60 this year.
post #259 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

Well, that's not good. So much for my hypothesis that Panasonic would meet demand because they need the cash. eek.gif


It's a little more complicated than that. Back in July and August, when they planned back half availability they had to make an educated guess as to what sales would be based on forecasts from dealers and past performance. Panasonic is, generally speaking, conservative with inventory. That said, if they "guessed" high and were wrong, it would cost them millions to move through that inventory potentially negating the benefit of selling more units in the first place. They set a number they thought they could hit. A number they felt made them profitable enough. And they hit it. Sure, they could have made a few more dollars, but they could have also lost their a$$. IMO, this is correct behavior for a cash-strapped company. Recklessly planning inventory is a good way to go out of business for good.
post #260 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

The ZT60 better be something really special because the ST60 looks mighty good at a substantially lower price. Several big improvements with the ST60 this year.

From my days of observation of the TVs at my location, although the ST is amazing the ZT is faaaaaaaaar superior. soon, however, I will have the Sammy 8500 plasma delivered to me.
post #261 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

From my days of observation of the TVs at my location, although the ST is amazing the ZT is faaaaaaaaar superior. soon, however, I will have the Sammy 8500 plasma delivered to me.

Do you believe the ZT will be the best 'current' flat panel overall?
post #262 of 366
I believe so. My first copy of 8500 plasma shows pumping effect so I sent it back and I'm currently waiting for its replacement.
post #263 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

I believe so. My first copy of 8500 plasma shows pumping effect so I sent it back and I'm currently waiting for its replacement.

Yeah, the F8500 was on my short list but the cons outweigh the pros for me, mainly the much lower ANSI reading and brightness fluctuations. I'm hoping that the ZT proves to be at least on par with and/or better than the 9G Kuro's in all aspects of PQ.
post #264 of 366
Just from the most basic things such as Samsung still using 600 Hz ffd and Panasonic is using 3,000 ffd; better customer service on Panasonic side; lower failure rate on Panasonic side (this is based on my personal observations from years of installing and calibrating both Pana and Sammy panels; I'd go with Pana even if it yields worse blacks than Sammy.

From my several-day experience with the ZT60, I can say that the black level on the ZT is at least as good as the Kuro II (I had them side by side), better whites than Kuro Ii and the calibration tracks better than the Kuro II.
post #265 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

Just from the most basic things such as Samsung still using 600 Hz ffd and Panasonic is using 3,000 ffd; better customer service on Panasonic side; lower failure rate on Panasonic side (this is based on my personal observations from years of installing and calibrating both Pana and Sammy panels; I'd go with Pana even if it yields worse blacks than Sammy.

From my several-day experience with the ZT60, I can say that the black level on the ZT is at least as good as the Kuro II (I had them side by side), better whites than Kuro Ii and the calibration tracks better than the Kuro II.

I know someone going to the event in New York tomorrow that's going to critique the ZT60 as much as possible. I hope the model on display is indicative of what the final production units will look like. If they are indeed as good as or better than the final gen Kuro like you said, then I will be really pleased. I'm already on the first buyer list for one, so hopefully I'll get it soon. smile.gif

And yeah, my current Samsung TV has bad capacitors so I'm not thrilled with Samsung at the moment. mad.gif
post #266 of 366
Unless he tests the TV at his house, calibrate it, do a direct comparison, I'd take all feedback with a grain of salt. Even I'd take my findings with a grain of salt because I didn't test the actual production unit.
post #267 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post

I know someone going to the event in New York tomorrow that's going to critique the ZT60 as much as possible. I hope the model on display is indicative of what the final production units will look like. If they are indeed as good as or better than the final gen Kuro like you said, then I will be really pleased. I'm already on the first buyer list for one, so hopefully I'll get it soon. smile.gif

And yeah, my current Samsung TV has bad capacitors so I'm not thrilled with Samsung at the moment. mad.gif

I also know someone who's going to the event tomorrow biggrin.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

Unless he tests the TV at his house, calibrate it, do a direct comparison, I'd take all feedback with a grain of salt. Even I'd take my findings with a grain of salt because I didn't test the actual production unit.

Gotta wait for the shoot-outs.
Edited by imagic - 4/8/13 at 7:52pm
post #268 of 366
Is the event open to the public?
post #269 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

Is the event open to the public?

It is a press-only event. Engadget ran a promo/contest to bring about 200 people into one of the presentations, but that's about it for public access.
post #270 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

Unless he tests the TV at his house, calibrate it, do a direct comparison, I'd take all feedback with a grain of salt. Even I'd take my findings with a grain of salt because I didn't test the actual production unit.

This is true. I just hope it turns out as well as I'm hoping. It can't be worse than the VT50, and that was a great TV. eek.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

I also know someone who's going to the event tomorrow biggrin.gif

Small world, LOL! biggrin.gif

Gotta wait for the shoot-outs.

Yeah, I sure hope Panasonic can get actual production units (ZT60's) to Robert in time to break in and calibrate...only one more month to go. smile.gif
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Latest Industry News
AVS › AVS Forum › News Forum › Latest Industry News › Panasonic ZT60 Plasma at CES 2013