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Panasonic ZT60 Plasma at CES 2013 - Page 2

post #31 of 357
1/14/13 at 11:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq View Post

"To me, this seems to be a somewhat questionable argument, since there's no way to know exactly what color an object should be in the expanded gamut after it has been reduced to Rec.709."

This is a very good point and one that popped to mind immediately when I saw the "DCI"gamut "feature". Personally, I'd calibrate the set to conform to REC 709 and forget the extra colors. Mapping REC 709 colors back to DCI ranges is what we in the Computer Science world call "indeterminate" and is generally a bad thing. If they could give you an accurate LUT to plug into some color box, then I'd be interested.

Exactly. If your calibrating to REC 709 the wide gamut is only a hindrance.
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post #32 of 357
1/15/13 at 4:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddig View Post

Exactly. If your calibrating to REC 709 the wide gamut is only a hindrance.

I usually watch blurays with extended gamut with my rgb_led projector Truvue Vango and the colors just take my breath away every time !
Flash tones looks ok to me and all the rest such as water, skies, grass etc. is so real to my eyes I can't go back to rec.709 anymore.
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post #33 of 357
1/15/13 at 1:51pm
Hi Scott, I am a big fan of the "Home Theatre Geeks" podcast...... LOVE THE SHOW!!! I am looking forward to your video review of the CES show floor and also next week's podcast, where I hope you'll recapp the entire show with the usual panel members.

quick question. Of all the televisions you saw at CES 2013 which TV (that was NOT a UHD/4K or OLED) impressed you the most?

Thanks

Paul
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post #34 of 357
1/15/13 at 2:13pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hidefpaul View Post

Hi Scott, I am a big fan of the "Home Theatre Geeks" podcast...... LOVE THE SHOW!!! I am looking forward to your video review of the CES show floor and also next week's podcast, where I hope you'll recapp the entire show with the usual panel members.

quick question. Of all the televisions you saw at CES 2013 which TV (that was NOT a UHD/4K or OLED) impressed you the most?

Thanks

Paul

Thanks so much for the kind words! The show we shot at CES is posted now at twit.tv/htg. To answer your question, the TV that impressed me the most (that wasn't UHD or OLED) was clearly the Panasonic ZT60. Can't wait to get my hands on one!

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post #35 of 357
1/15/13 at 2:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratm View Post

As one who is in the market for a new plasma, I am assuming that a 65VT50 will be able to be had for roughly 2500 or so once the ZT60's hit the market. Will the cost of getting a VT50 professionally calibrated improve the black levels to be on par with the ZT? $4100 is just too steep for me.
NO
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post #36 of 357
1/16/13 at 2:01pm
$4100 for the ZT65 sounds great. I hope that's true because I was only going to get the ZT60 if it was less than $4000 and that appears to be the case.
I finished watching the video version of Home Theater Geeks, did a Google search for "ZT60" and found this thread! Great podcast, Scott! I always enjoy when you have Tyll on the podcast as well. I can't get enough plasma TV and headphone talk!
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post #37 of 357
1/16/13 at 4:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post

Thanks so much for the kind words! The show we shot at CES is posted now at twit.tv/htg. To answer your question, the TV that impressed me the most (that wasn't UHD or OLED) was clearly the Panasonic ZT60. Can't wait to get my hands on one!

What was the glass front like on the zt60? One of the biggest issues I had with the 65vt50 was that I kept getting dust particles stuck underneath the glass panel due to its open frame design. Never had this issue with the vt30.
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post #38 of 357
1/16/13 at 4:48pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmay91472 View Post


What was the glass front like on the zt60? One of the biggest issues I had with the 65vt50 was that I kept getting dust particles stuck underneath the glass panel due to its open frame design. Never had this issue with the vt30.

I'm sorry, I didn't look that closely to see if this would be an issue, nor had I heard of it with the VT50 before. It's a real bummer! I'll ask Panasonic about that...

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post #39 of 357
1/16/13 at 5:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post

I'm sorry, I didn't look that closely to see if this would be an issue, nor had I heard of it with the VT50 before. It's a real bummer! I'll ask Panasonic about that...

That would be great. From the pictures, it definitely looks like Panasonic's most attractive panel yet.
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post #40 of 357
1/17/13 at 12:23pm
Quote:
gamut that is then decreased to Rec.709 for storage and transmission. The ZT60 expands the gamut back out to its original boundaries

That statement is total rubbish, and shows just how little is really understood about colour, calibration, and the importance of it - especially by display manufacturers!

It is very, very sad to hear garbage like that frown.gif
Quote:
To me, this seems to be a somewhat questionable argument

Stick with that view - it is totally correct!
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post #41 of 357
1/17/13 at 12:28pm
Actually, anyone looking at plasmas should have a read of the various threads in the 'Display Calibration' forum, where there is a lot of discussion about the inability for plasmas to be accurately calibrated due to the effect of ABL.

We calibrate displays for the professional post industry, and plasmas are hated by all that attempt to use them for anything other than 'client' repeat displays.

No matter what Panasonic say, they are not taken seriously for true 'grading' displays in colour critical environments.

Steve
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post #42 of 357
1/17/13 at 12:42pm
I saw the demo at CES too and was very impressed. I planning on getting a 65" version of this tv which will finally replace my 50" kuro and kick it out of the living room.
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post #43 of 357
1/17/13 at 1:02pm
How would you say this new plasma stacks up to the TH-65VX300? AV Forums named the VX300 as the new reference plasma http://www.avforums.com/review/Panasonic-Professional-VX300-TH65VX300-65-Inch-3D-Plasma-TV-Review.html, something they hadn't done since the Kuro. The VX300 is a pro monitor, and sells for more than the ZT60. I need advice as to whether to wait for the new generation or if the pro panasonic has better features NOW. Thanks!
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post #44 of 357
1/17/13 at 1:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Semp1 View Post

Panasonic is the New King!

I'll believe it when I see it. I've got my 5080 Kuro (720p) right next to a 60GT50 and the Kuro black still wins.
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post #45 of 357
1/17/13 at 1:36pm
We saw that and both of us agreed that the reds were unreal on both. I told him so. He said, ‘How do you know how red they really were?’ I told him that I have seen strawberries before, which he admitted was a good comeback. The other scenes had exaggerated, over saturated reds that do not exist in the real world.

“Fools illusions everywhere.” – George Harrison
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post #46 of 357
1/17/13 at 5:30pm
I am keeping my calibrated Pioneer Kuro Elite Pro-151FD as long as it runs.
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post #47 of 357
1/17/13 at 6:50pm
Well, at least I have something to look into if my Kuro 600m every breaks.
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post #48 of 357
1/18/13 at 4:00am
Scott, Loved the podcast. It was nice to see that those that have a choice (Samsung rep) still prefer plasma as of today.

I have been waiting for the 65VT50 price to drop $1,000 off of MSRP, but now I may have to wait a year for the ZT60, assuming the price will drop by $1,000 off whatever MSRP it comes out at, once the 2014 models are introduced.
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post #49 of 357
1/18/13 at 8:10am
Panasonic the new king? Their still the king since I bought one 2 years ago! I bought their lowest costing 47" plasma for $445 on sale 2 years ago because after looking at a huge variety of LCD and LED TV's, the picture quality could not be beat even by LCD TV's costing $1000 MORE then the Panasonic! Even a friend of mine who spent $1800 for his LCD and can't get over how much nicer my picture looks vs his and wishes he had spent less and got the Panasonic. New king? no, their still the reigning king of TV's. The only negative I can say about the lowest costing Panasonic is the built in speakers are not very good, but you can bypass those speakers if you want to.

But if Panasonic lowest costing plasma offering is as good as it is from my experience, then their newer ZT60 must be a marvel to behold.
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post #50 of 357
1/18/13 at 9:14am
I saw the new ZT60 at the CES and I can say that I have finally seen a TV that came up to the level of the Pioneer units that I have in my house! The quality of the black levels were very good and colors were a little brighter than my calibrated units. The unit I viewed had not been calibrated, as stated earlier they were using the out of box set up. Looking forward to the Panasonic units of the future. This picture was just silky! Thanks for keeping the plasma's alive Panasonic!
Edited by robrrr - 1/18/13 at 9:46am
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post #51 of 357
1/18/13 at 11:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_DML View Post

I saw the demo at CES too and was very impressed. I planning on getting a 65" version of this tv which will finally replace my 50" kuro and kick it out of the living room.
same here..smile.gif.
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post #52 of 357
1/18/13 at 12:08pm
There is a video of the beautiful ZT60 and the other new 2013 plasma's from CES 2013 at HDTV-News.com.

http://www.hdtv-news.com/panasonic/2013-plasma-hdtvs/

I can't wait to get a real look at it.
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post #53 of 357
1/20/13 at 7:18am
Now the only thing to do is wait for pricing! I'm guessing around the original VT30 price point, 4299ish, with the VT60 about 400 to 500 below that. eek.gif
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post #54 of 357
1/20/13 at 8:12am
I will say this and thats that the ZT60 is a beautiful tv.
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post #55 of 357
1/20/13 at 8:51am
Is Panasonic potentially pricing itself out of the larger market, and only going to be able to sell to those who are willing to spend serious coin to be on the bleeding edge with their $4500 list price? I appreciate that they're first among equals in bringing professional technology to the consumer market in this regard, but it seems to me they're shooting themselves in the foot in this regard. The mass market would be all over the ZT series at a $2500 - $3000 list price, but that extra $1500 - $2000 is just too painful. At the $4500 price point they're taking a huge potential portion chunk out of their market. At the lower price point they open themselves up to make a far more generous profit by dint of volume of sales. Coming from the business world I know that lower profit per unit but seriously higher unit volume in terms of sales (and likely positive customer experience) is far more desirable. C'mon Panasonic, wake up! You could OWN and grow the Plasma market and save your TV divisions skin, or you can become an emotional memory like the Kuro! What will it be?
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post #56 of 357
1/20/13 at 8:57am
Gunna? Plamsa? Really?
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post #57 of 357
1/20/13 at 9:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve1971 View Post

I will say this and thats that the ZT60 is a beautiful tv.

+1
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post #58 of 357
1/20/13 at 10:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by boomerguy View Post

Is Panasonic potentially pricing itself out of the larger market, and only going to be able to sell to those who are willing to spend serious coin to be on the bleeding edge with their $4500 list price? I appreciate that they're first among equals in bringing professional technology to the consumer market in this regard, but it seems to me they're shooting themselves in the foot in this regard. The mass market would be all over the ZT series at a $2500 - $3000 list price, but that extra $1500 - $2000 is just too painful. At the $4500 price point they're taking a huge potential portion chunk out of their market. At the lower price point they open themselves up to make a far more generous profit by dint of volume of sales. Coming from the business world I know that lower profit per unit but seriously higher unit volume in terms of sales (and likely positive customer experience) is far more desirable. C'mon Panasonic, wake up! You could OWN and grow the Plasma market and save your TV divisions skin, or you can become an emotional memory like the Kuro! What will it be?

There is quite a bit more math involved than you mention in your post. Yes, you can make up the the lost gross margin dollars with increased volume, but you are also severely increasing supply chain and manufacturing cost to attain a similar amount of profit. This would significantly lower your net operating profit %, thus making you a less attractive from a stock price perspective. Developing the market leader in PQ and keeping them somewhat exclusive is probably a better move for them long term. I know it doesn't get you a TV at $2500, but it is probably the better business decision. At $4000, these will sell pretty well. It will still be cheaper than any semi-equivalent LED on the market. They will sell a large amount of these at around that price point. Part of this is assuming that the PQ improvements alluded to so far are accurate.
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post #59 of 357
1/20/13 at 5:25pm
I disagree. There is a market "sweet spot at somewhere between $2500 to $3000. Panasonic is clearlt aiming this at the consumer market as opposed to the "prosumer" or professional market, where the price points are higher. The visual differences are such that deciding between the ztt60/65 ot the vt55/65 will be a wash for most consumers. Those people will happily get what they deem to be the "same" picture at the lowered price points for the vt series, leaving the zt series dangling out there for those of us who actually take pleasure and/or comfort in having a quality, leading edge product. (Assuming these palenls live up to the current hype after more thouough hands-on testing and reports from folks who've actually bought the things for home use. Time will tell>) My worry is that Panasonic has come up with a great product but that not enough people will buy the things to help the company get out of the selfp0-imposed doldrums it is currently in.
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post #60 of 357
1/20/13 at 5:57pm
any pricing updates on this ZT60?
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