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Oppo BDP-105 "Sound Quality" Check Thread for Audiophiles - Page 36

post #1051 of 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post

db, I'm a little confused about some of your previous statements you made about "having to set the speaker levels" or "ramping up the speaker levels" just to reach 75 db SPL. What levels are you talking about (the trim settings?) So are you saying that you can set your Oppo volume to 100, and that still wasn't producing a "loud" enough audio signal from your Proceed Amp? The 105 has an output level of 4.2 volt rms via its xlrs, while your Proceed Amp has an input sensitivity of 2.4 volts via its xlrs for its full rated output. It seems like you should have way more headroom than you need coming from the 105. Hopefully David (dmusoke), or any of our resident experts can shed more light on this issue for you.

I'm guessing you have never set your audio configuration settings then. If you only listen to 2-channel this isn't important but if you use multichannel (or home theater), since the oppo does not auto configure your settings like a full AVR, you have to set them yourself. Basically making sure all the channels are at the same loudness at the primary listening position and making sure each speaker's signal gets to your position at the same time. So all that other stuff you mentioned has nothing to do with this. You basically use a test tone, set your loudness on speaker 1 to 75 db and then match every other speaker level to it using the oppo speaker trims.
post #1052 of 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by tme110 View Post

I'm guessing you have never set your audio configuration settings then. If you only listen to 2-channel this isn't important but if you use multichannel (or home theater), since the oppo does not auto configure your settings like a full AVR, you have to set them yourself. Basically making sure all the channels are at the same loudness at the primary listening position and making sure each speaker's signal gets to your position at the same time. So all that other stuff you mentioned has nothing to do with this. You basically use a test tone, set your loudness on speaker 1 to 75 db and then match every other speaker level to it using the oppo speaker trims.
I'm well aware of the speaker trim settings in the 105. You can set them to +/-10 db in .5 db increments. That's all I was asking you if it was the 105's "trim" settings. Speaker matching is not your problem, and the test tones are used for speaker matching. What's more important is the voltage of the analog signal coming out of the 105 and into your Proceed amp. What master volume on the 105 were you using? The loudness of the test tones are affected by the 105's master volume. A master volume of 100 will put out 4.2 volts rms via the xlr cables.....That affects the overall voltage going to your amp....and at that voltage, you would have clipped your audio signal way before that setting since your amp will reach maximum output with only a 2.4 volt input sensitivity from its balanced inputs....you're completely on the wrong track if you think this has nothing to do with your issue. So loudness from the 105, or lack of headroom, is not what you're dealing with?
Edited by DanF8500 - 9/6/13 at 11:14am
post #1053 of 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post

I'm well aware of the speaker trim settings in the 105. You can set them to +/-10 db in .5 db increments. That's all I was asking you if it was the 105's "trim" settings. Speaker matching is not your problem, and the test tones are used for speaker matching. What's more important is the voltage of the analog signal coming out of the 105 and into your Proceed amp. What master volume on the 105 were you using? The loudness of the test tones are affected by the 105's master volume. A master volume of 100 will put out 4.2 volts rms via the xlr cables.....That affects the overall voltage going to your amp....and at that voltage, you would have clipped your audio signal way before that setting since your amp will reach maximum output with only a 2.4 volt input sensitivity from its balanced inputs....you're completely on the wrong track if you think this has nothing to do with your issue. So loudness from the 105, or lack of headroom, is not what you're dealing with?

Dan,

You were responding to a post by TME110, not a post by me (db). But I do use the speaker trim as TME110 described. I set all speakers, including the sub, to 75 dB SPL using an RS meter set to C weighting and slow trajectory and the white (or pink) noise provided by the Oppo. I just rechecked the setup. For listening, I set the level of the Oppo to 45-50.

I think I discovered at least part of the problem using the Stereophile sampler: The channels are out of phase! This is a problem I've never experienced, and I'm not sure how to cure it. Perhaps someone can provide advice.

I'm going to stay with the Oppo 105 direct to Proceed Amp 2 in the setup, because of the simplification and because it is a secondary setup in which most of our listening is through the surprising good speakers of a Sony 46XBR8. Our main system for music and HT is in another room, and considerably more elaborate.

Help with out-of-phase channels sought.

db
post #1054 of 1458
I forgot to mention, in my recheck i discovered SACD output was set to DSD. Re setting that to PCM improved the sound considerably, but of course did not deal with the phase issue.

db
post #1055 of 1458
^ Thanks, db, for filling me in that I replied to a different forumite. LoL Well, I'm glad you have some of your issues worked out. With regards to speaker phasing, wouldn't just swapping the negative terminal wire with the positive on the back of the affected speaker solve this issue? Double check the speaker wire connected to your amp's terminals, and then follow the path of those cables to the back of your speakers. Look for a connection mismatch.
Quote:
I forgot to mention, in my recheck i discovered SACD output was set to DSD. Re setting that to PCM improved the sound considerably,
Remember for DSD Direct to analog, you need to set hdmi audio to "off" on the 105.....correction: if you don't have any active hdmi connections between your 105 and another av component, then turning off hdmi audio is not necessary to maintain dsd-direct to analog. But the big kicker is no 105 audio processing can take place for dsd-direct to analog. Special processing such as setting the crossover, speaker distance, and down-mixing are inhibited. So, if you need 105 audio processing, PCM output would be your better option.
Edited by DanF8500 - 9/6/13 at 2:45pm
post #1056 of 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post

^ Thanks, db, for filling me in that I replied to a different forumite. LoL Well, I'm glad you have some of your issues worked out. With regards to speaker phasing, wouldn't just swapping the negative terminal wire with the positive on the back of the affected speaker solve this issue? Double check the speaker wire connected to your amp's terminals, and then follow the path of those cables to the back of your speakers. Look for a connection mismatch.
Remember for DSD Direct to analog, you need to set hdmi audio to "off" on the 105.....correction: if you don't have any active hdmi connections between your 105 and another av component, then turning off hdmi audio is not necessary to maintain dsd-direct to analog.

Is there something on the front panel indicating tha pcm is outputed when playing an sacd?

anyone can ear a big sq difference when dsd i converted to pcm ?
post #1057 of 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post

^ Thanks, db, for filling me in that I replied to a different forumite. LoL Well, I'm glad you have some of your issues worked out. With regards to speaker phasing, wouldn't just swapping the negative terminal wire with the positive on the back of the affected speaker solve this issue? Double check the speaker wire connected to your amp's terminals, and then follow the path of those cables to the back of your speakers. Look for a connection mismatch.
Remember for DSD Direct to analog, you need to set hdmi audio to "off" on the 105.....correction: if you don't have any active hdmi connections between your 105 and another av component, then turning off hdmi audio is not necessary to maintain dsd-direct to analog.

I didn't know this. I currently use the 2 channel as well as the 5.1 analog going into my AVR (for audio) as well as HDMI into my AVR for movies and STB. Am I suppose to turn off HDMI audio off?
post #1058 of 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by gelly View Post

I didn't know this. I currently use the 2 channel as well as the 5.1 analog going into my AVR (for audio) as well as HDMI into my AVR for movies and STB. Am I suppose to turn off HDMI audio off?
Hello Gelly. I added a little more info to my above statement for you to read (regarding audio processing and dsd-direct to analog) Essentially the 105 can't process a DSD and PCM stream simultaneously, and if your HDMI audio output is forced to PCM after your hdmi handshake from the AVR says it can't accept DSD streams, then PCM will also be used for the analog (rca/xlr) signal path. You can maintain dsd-direct to analog if you turn the 105's hdmi audio "off". But the 105 can't do audio processing (crossover, distance, down-mixing) in dsd-direct to analog, so if you require that, then pcm processing is what you will need.
Edited by DanF8500 - 9/6/13 at 3:13pm
post #1059 of 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiman View Post

Is there something on the front panel indicating tha pcm is outputed when playing an sacd?

anyone can ear a big sq difference when dsd i converted to pcm ?
Yes, it will say "pcm". If you're playing a dsd uploaded file, that indicator is not applicable. I haven't found a way to tell if the 105 is doing dsd-direct to analog for dsd files, so I set hdmi audio to off and hope it's processing dsd-direct to analog and not converting the signal to pcm.

Many have said they hear no discernible difference between the two streams. Since audio processing is suppressed while the 105 does dsd-direct to analog, that may be a limiting factor for many requiring 105 audio processing.
Edited by DanF8500 - 9/6/13 at 3:46pm
post #1060 of 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post

^ Thanks, db, for filling me in that I replied to a different forumite. LoL Well, I'm glad you have some of your issues worked out. With regards to speaker phasing, wouldn't just swapping the negative terminal wire with the positive on the back of the affected speaker solve this issue? Double check the speaker wire connected to your amp's terminals, and then follow the path of those cables to the back of your speakers. Look for a connection mismatch.
Remember for DSD Direct to analog, you need to set hdmi audio to "off" on the 105.....correction: if you don't have any active hdmi connections between your 105 and another av component, then turning off hdmi audio is not necessary to maintain dsd-direct to analog. But the big kicker is no 105 audio processing can take place for dsd-direct to analog. Special processing such as setting the crossover, speaker distance, and down-mixing are inhibited. So, if you need 105 audio processing, PCM output would be your better option.

Dan,

I checked the speaker leads at the amp output and at the speakers. I imagined that in moving the amp I may have hooked it up backwards. But that is not the case. I suspect reversing the leads will correct the phase problem, but it seems an incorrect solution. I wonder if there might be a problem with the XLR connection from the Oppo (it's a 95 in this setup; the 105 is in the HT setup) to the Proceed amp. I could either reverse the speaker leads as uncomfortable as that would be or try unbalanced connection from Oppo to Proceed. One of my components lets you change the XLR convention, but that may be the Cary Cinema 11a in the media room.

db
post #1061 of 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbphd View Post

Dan,

I checked the speaker leads at the amp output and at the speakers. I imagined that in moving the amp I may have hooked it up backwards. But that is not the case. I suspect reversing the leads will correct the phase problem, but it seems an incorrect solution. I wonder if there might be a problem with the XLR connection from the Oppo (it's a 95 in this setup; the 105 is in the HT setup) to the Proceed amp. I could either reverse the speaker leads as uncomfortable as that would be or try unbalanced connection from Oppo to Proceed. One of my components lets you change the XLR convention, but that may be the Cary Cinema 11a in the media room.

db
Hello db. I know this would be a pain, but would it be possible to try your other Oppo unit to hone in on where your out of phasing is coming from? At least you'd have a better feel for what's going on before having to swap speaker wires around. You never did tell me why you believe you have an out of phase issue....you said you ran a Stereophile sampler cd? Can you be a little more specific about the test? Maybe the problem is masking itself, or looking like an out of phase problem, but it's something else??

One other thing.....since you're using xlr cables, check the xlr pinout diagram of your audio components with the 105's pinout diagram to make sure there's no inversion happening (+ swapped with -), and check the xlr polarity setting in your Oppo too.
Edited by DanF8500 - 9/6/13 at 6:56pm
post #1062 of 1458
Dan,

Before I realized the Oppo menu includes the ability to reverse the XLR pins I switched XLR for RCA, but that didn't cure the phase problem. So I resorted to reversing the connections to the right speaker, and that did the job. To check phase, I used the Stereophile sampler disc that includes channel and phase tests in the first two tracks. JA plays his Fender bass guitar for those tests. Then I listened to the "Love in Vain" track of Let it Bleed for a centered image of Jagger and Corelli concerti grossi for a sense of air and transparency. The phase seems correct now.

The setup uses an Oppo 95, Proceed Amp 2, KEF 104/2s, and Velodyne HGS-10. Speaker placement is more for living room aesthetics than acoustic considerations, so they flank a Sony 46 XBR8 used for watching programs we record. This setup is more than adequate for its purpose, and most of our listening is with the surprisingly good speakers of the TV.

db
post #1063 of 1458
mad.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post

Hello Gelly. I added a little more info to my above statement for you to read (regarding audio processing and dsd-direct to analog) Essentially the 105 can't process a DSD and PCM stream simultaneously, and if your HDMI audio output is forced to PCM after your hdmi handshake from the AVR says it can't accept DSD streams, then PCM will also be used for the analog (rca/xlr) signal path. You can maintain dsd-direct to analog if you turn the 105's hdmi audio "off". But the 105 can't do audio processing (crossover, distance, down-mixing) in dsd-direct to analog, so if you require that, then pcm processing is what you will need.

Thank you.
post #1064 of 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post

Yes, it will say "pcm". If you're playing a dsd uploaded file, that indicator is not applicable. I haven't found a way to tell if the 105 is doing dsd-direct to analog for dsd files, so I set hdmi audio to off and hope it's processing dsd-direct to analog and not converting the signal to pcm.

Many have said they hear no discernible difference between the two streams. Since audio processing is suppressed while the 105 does dsd-direct to analog, that may be a limiting factor for many requiring 105 audio processing.

And if i use the 7.1 analog on my marantz 8003, the audio processing will be off also.

I only see "sacd" on the front panel when playing sacd discs,
post #1065 of 1458
^ An SACD light without a PCM light means that DSD-Direct-to-Analog Conversion is in effect for the Analog outputs (and thus audio processing is bypassed in the OPPO) and HDMI DSD is being output for HDMI audio.
--Bob
post #1066 of 1458
Question:

If one plugs the OPPO BDP-105 directly to the amps when playing an SACD in DSD then we can hear DSD yes? No conversion to PCM!
post #1067 of 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Question:

If one plugs the OPPO BDP-105 directly to the amps when playing an SACD in DSD then we can hear DSD yes? No conversion to PCM!

What does the manual say on the subject?

-Bill
post #1068 of 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

What does the manual say on the subject? Bill

You tell me, my manual is stored somewhere!
post #1069 of 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Question:

If one plugs the OPPO BDP-105 directly to the amps when playing an SACD in DSD then we can hear DSD yes? No conversion to PCM!
Playing an SACD, setting the sacd output to DSD, and sending the 105's analog audio output direct to a power amp still doesn't ensure the 105 will be carrying out dsd-direct to analog. We've been discussing this matter above over the past couple of days. If you have any active hdmi connections between your 105 and one of your components, and that component can't accept/convert a DSD stream, then the 105 will convert the DSD audio stream to pcm (88.2KHz, 24-bit). If you have such an active hdmi connection, you'll need to turn off hdmi audio on the 105 to ensure the 105 does dsd-direct to analog processing.

As an example, I have an hdmi connection between the 105 and my tv. Even with my tv off, the 105 was still converting sacd to pcm. If I completely disconnected my hdmi cable, then dsd-direct to analog was active. Disconnecting my hdmi cable all the time (lol) is not an option, so turning off hdmi audio on the 105 is the only solution to ensure the 105 processes dsd-direct to analog.

Also, I didn't learn any of this from the 105 manual.....I learned this from Bob.
Edited by DanF8500 - 9/8/13 at 11:09am
post #1070 of 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post


You tell me, my manual is stored somewhere!

 

On line at 

http://download.oppodigital.com/BDP105/BDP-105_USER_MANUAL_English_v1.6.pdf

:rolleyes:

post #1071 of 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post

Playing an SACD, setting the sacd output to DSD, and sending the 105's analog audio output direct to a power amp still doesn't ensure the 105 will be carrying out dsd-direct to analog. We've been discussing this matter above over the past couple of days. If you have any active hdmi connections between your 105 and one of your components, and that component can't accept/convert a DSD stream, then the 105 will convert the DSD audio stream to pcm. If you have such an active hdmi connection, you'll need to turn off hdmi audio on the 105 to ensure the 105 does dsd-direct to analog processing.

As an example, I have an hdmi connection between the 105 and my tv. Even with my tv off, the 105 was still converting sacd to pcm. If I completely disconnected my hdmi cable, then dsd-direct to analog was active. Disconnecting my hdmi cable all the time (lol) is not an option, so turning off hdmi audio on the 105 is the only solution to ensure the 105 processes dsd-direct to analog.

Thank you,

The BDP 105 is the only source, I use the HDMI 1 to the projector, and I turned Audio Off for that HDMI. I use HDMI 2 to plug into a small monitor, do i need to turn audio off as well? When I play a MC SACD then it should be DSD yes?

Finally, I also have an Apple TV plugged in through HDMi in and a Mac mini using the B USB port.
post #1072 of 1458
Quote:

I downloaded the manual and could not find the section plug in straight to amps?
post #1073 of 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

I downloaded the manual and could not find the section plug in straight to amps?
Come on guys. There's many things the 105 manual is good for, but the details about this subject we've been talking about are not in the manual.

wse, as long as you don't see the "pcm" indicator lit on the 105's front panel while you're playing an sacd, then you can be assured that dsd-direct to analog is happening. There's only one hdmi audio setting for both of the 105's hdmi outputs.
Edited by DanF8500 - 9/8/13 at 11:47am
post #1074 of 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post

Come on guys. There's many things the 105 manual is good for, but the details about this subject we've been talking about are not in the manual.

wse, as long as you don't see the "pcm" indicator lit on the 105's front panel while you're playing an sacd, then you can be assured that dsd-direct to analog is happening. There's only one hdmi audio setting for both of the 105's hdmi outputs.
Right but my response was directed at WSE's specific statement. As for the general query, this has already been discussed here on AVS and on the Oppo FAQs.
post #1075 of 1458
Running my 105 Via Analogs into a Bel Canto Pre 6 and then onto Proceed Amp 5 and finally into Totem Rainmaker 5.1 set. It's CLEAN!!! No need for subwoofer for CDs and movies are very dynamic and clean. smile.gif Velodyne DD+10 for is used for movies or 5.1 SACD & DVD-Audio
Cables are BJC
Edited by Bardia - 9/11/13 at 8:40pm
post #1076 of 1458
I've been using direct input from our Oppo 95 to a Proceed Amp 2 with fine results. A couple of days ago I enabled HDMI audio in the menu so we can choose to use the fine speakers of our Sony XBR8 without turning on the amp. I was surprised to discover that even in this configuration frequencies below 80 Hz are sent to the sub. Then I remembered that all the Oppo audio outputs are active, so it shouldn't have been a surprise. The combination of exceptional TV speakers with a sub works well.

Our 105 is used with a projector, so sound requires the entire audio setup.

db
post #1077 of 1458
^ Understand that you are gettin excess bass in that configuration. The bass being sent on the Analog output to the Sub is ALSO present in the HDMI audio for the other speakers as no Crossover processing is happening on the HDMI output. If your main speakers naturally roll off at the Crossover frequency you set for the Analog outputs this could still work.
--Bob
post #1078 of 1458
I have a few questions hoping some of you audiophiles can answer for me.

Im in need of a new BluRay player and the guy at the shop was selling me on the 103 not knowing that Im also in the market for an amp/dac for 600 ohm headphones(BeyerDynamic T1's and Sennheiser HD800s).

So im now considering the 105 based on its audio quality.Here are a few questions im hoping can be answered here.

I currently have a Yamaha v861 receiver.If I buy the 105
1..will it be enough power for the 600ohm headphones?
2...how would I hook it up to the Yamaha so that I can use the 105 for its DAC?
3..How would I connect an Astell Kern 120 to the 105 for optimum sound quality?

Thanks in advance.
post #1079 of 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by monsterzero2001 View Post

I have a few questions hoping some of you audiophiles can answer for me.

Im in need of a new BluRay player and the guy at the shop was selling me on the 103 not knowing that Im also in the market for an amp/dac for 600 ohm headphones(BeyerDynamic T1's and Sennheiser HD800s).

So im now considering the 105 based on its audio quality.Here are a few questions im hoping can be answered here.

I currently have a Yamaha v861 receiver.If I buy the 105
1..will it be enough power for the 600ohm headphones?
2...how would I hook it up to the Yamaha so that I can use the 105 for its DAC?
3..How would I connect an Astell Kern 120 to the 105 for optimum sound quality?

Thanks in advance.

I've never heard of the Astell Kern 120, but looking it up, that is a cool player!

My first choice would be to see if the Oppo would simply recognize the player as a USB drive. But at that point, you might as well buy yourself a a 2TB external hard drive and just keep your music collection on there.

The other option would be to put the Astell Kern 120 on the Optical in of the Oppo, but again, why? What does the player do that the Oppo doesn't except carry your data/music?
post #1080 of 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonely Raven View Post

I've never heard of the Astell Kern 120, but looking it up, that is a cool player!

My first choice would be to see if the Oppo would simply recognize the player as a USB drive. But at that point, you might as well buy yourself a a 2TB external hard drive and just keep your music collection on there.

The other option would be to put the Astell Kern 120 on the Optical in of the Oppo, but again, why? What does the player do that the Oppo doesn't except carry your data/music?

I have the AK120 for portable use so it is in your opinion redundant?If so and using a 2TB is your recommendation,then again how would I connect the Oppo to the Yamaha to bypass the Yamaha's DAC for both music and movies?

And again how will it drive 600 ohm headphones?
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