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Oppo BDP-105 "Sound Quality" Check Thread for Audiophiles - Page 37

post #1081 of 1448
Quote:
Originally Posted by monsterzero2001 View Post

I have the AK120 for portable use so it is in your opinion redundant?If so and using a 2TB is your recommendation,then again how would I connect the Oppo to the Yamaha to bypass the Yamaha's DAC for both music and movies?

And again how will it drive 600 ohm headphones?
I had a nice reply for you, but something strange is going on with the avs forum, and I lost everything I typed out...so I'll give you a short version reply......to get the benefits of the 105's dacs, use its analog outputs (either dedicated stereo and/or multi-channel) to your Yamaha receiver. You'll need to put your receiver in Pure Direct mode to ensure your signal will remain analog to the amp stage.

As for your 600 ohm T1's, I can't give you a definitive answer on that, but I know this question has been asked before on either of the two 105 threads (owners forum or sound quality forum). You can do a search for your answer in both those forums. Just type "T1" as your search string.
post #1082 of 1448
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post

I had a nice reply for you, but something strange is going on with the avs forum, and I lost everything I typed out...so I'll give you a short version reply......to get the benefits of the 105's dacs, use its analog outputs (either dedicated stereo and/or multi-channel) to your Yamaha receiver. You'll need to put your receiver in Pure Direct mode to ensure your signal will remain analog to the amp stage.

As for your 600 ohm T1's, I can't give you a definitive answer on that, but I know this question has been asked before on either of the two 105 threads (owners forum or sound quality forum). You can do a search for your answer in both those forums. Just type "T1" as your search string.

Ok thanks for that,I did some research on it in various threads here and on head-fi. and apparently the Oppo+T1 combo comes out real treble happy,which makes sense,and thus wouldnt suit me well,at least on that combo...sounds like Sennheiser 600s or 650s might do well though.

I also read that while some 300/600 ohm headphones sounded good,they still lacked volume headroom,so here is another noob question:

If I connect the Oppo to the Yamaha via analog cables and do a passthru setting on the Yamaha would I gain the benefit of the amps of both the Oppo and Yamaha out of the Yamaha headphone jack,and still retain the DAC of the Oppo,or would the heaphones only receive the Yamaha's relatively weak headphone amp output?
post #1083 of 1448
Quote:
Originally Posted by monsterzero2001 View Post

If I connect the Oppo to the Yamaha via analog cables and do a passthru setting on the Yamaha would I gain the benefit of the amps of both the Oppo and Yamaha out of the Yamaha headphone jack,and still retain the DAC of the Oppo,or would the heaphones only receive the Yamaha's relatively weak headphone amp output?
Using the analog outputs on the Oppo will definitely use the Oppo's DAC's. But if you use the Yamaha's headphone output, you won't be using the Oppo's headphone amp at all and I have no idea if modes like "pure direct" would apply to the headphone output on your receiver or not - that would be a question to ask in the thread for your AVR.
post #1084 of 1448
Quote:
Originally Posted by monsterzero2001 View Post

. . . .

If I connect the Oppo to the Yamaha via analog cables and do a passthru setting on the Yamaha would I gain the benefit of the amps of both the Oppo and Yamaha out of the Yamaha headphone jack,and still retain the DAC of the Oppo,or would the heaphones only receive the Yamaha's relatively weak headphone amp output?

The output of the Yamaha's headphone jack will be limited by the capabilities of its headphone output stage (including its headphone amp). You can't push a signal through an amp that's better than what the amp is designed to output.

The quality of the DAC is not the important thing if you are looking for increased headphone amp power. That said, if the analog "direct" mode in the Yamaha keeps from re-digitizing Analog audio input from the OPPO, then the only DAC in the signal path is the one in the OPPO. If the Yamaha signal path re-digitizes that Analog input from the OPPO for processing, then the DAC in the Yamaha feeding its headphone output stage comes into play.
--Bob
post #1085 of 1448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

The output of the Yamaha's headphone jack will be limited by the capabilities of its headphone output stage (including its headphone amp). You can't push a signal through an amp that's better than what the amp is designed to output.

The quality of the DAC is not the important thing if you are looking for increased headphone amp power. That said, if the analog "direct" mode in the Yamaha keeps from re-digitizing Analog audio input from the OPPO, then the only DAC in the signal path is the one in the OPPO. If the Yamaha signal path re-digitizes that Analog input from the OPPO for processing, then the DAC in the Yamaha feeding its headphone output stage comes into play.
--Bob

So then if im understanding correctly I should pass on the 105,opt for the 103 and a dedicated headphone amp/dac?Or get the 105 and add a headphone amp sans the dac part,since Sabre DACs are quite excellent
post #1086 of 1448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonely Raven View Post

I've never heard of the Astell Kern 120, but looking it up, that is a cool player!

My first choice would be to see if the Oppo would simply recognize the player as a USB drive. But at that point, you might as well buy yourself a a 2TB external hard drive and just keep your music collection on there.

The other option would be to put the Astell Kern 120 on the Optical in of the Oppo, but again, why? What does the player do that the Oppo doesn't except carry your data/music?

Yep the Astell Kern is epic if youre into portable 24/96,24/192 audio,coupled with a HiFi M8 amp and a higher end headphone youre looking at near 3 grand for the setup,but the sound is amazing!
post #1087 of 1448
Quote:
Originally Posted by monsterzero2001 View Post

. . . .
So then if im understanding correctly I should pass on the 105,opt for the 103 and a dedicated headphone amp/dac?Or get the 105 and add a headphone amp sans the dac part,since Sabre DACs are quite excellent

Sure, get an analog-only headphone amp (no digital audio inputs, no processing, and thus no DAC) and feed it from the Dedicated Stereo Outputs of the 105.

Or audition other headphones that you find work better with the 105's built-in Headphones output. Here's a blog post that may help as a start:

http://noblehifi.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/oppo-bdp-105eu-review.html

There may be newer reports out there by now if you look.
--Bob
post #1088 of 1448
Quote:
Originally Posted by monsterzero2001 View Post

So then if im understanding correctly I should pass on the 105,opt for the 103 and a dedicated headphone amp/dac?Or get the 105 and add a headphone amp sans the dac part,since Sabre DACs are quite excellent
If headphone listening/fidelity is important to you, I'd get a dedicated headphone amp. Pick up the 105 too for it's stunning analog fidelity. I run my 105's dedicated rca stereo outs to a headroom max amp when I want to listen to my hd800's. I set my headphone amp's volume to a fixed level so I can use the 105's volume control (variable) via the 105's remote.
post #1089 of 1448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Sure, get an analog-only headphone amp (no digital audio inputs, no processing, and thus no DAC) and feed it from the Dedicated Stereo Outputs of the 105.

Or audition other headphones that you find work better with the 105's built-in Headphones output. Here's a blog post that may help as a start:

http://noblehifi.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/oppo-bdp-105eu-review.html

There may be newer reports out there by now if you look.
--Bob

Thanks Bob

with the exception of the HD 650 and the 880 (600 ohm version) the others were quite easy to drive,and not surprisingly the 650 received less than favorable reviews from the author of that post.
The Sennheiser 650s are not really hi end HPs but are difficult to drive,and when improperly driven sound awful,but when given the right amp/dac combo really are one of the best sub-500.00 usd HPs you can buy.

I think I will get the 105 and a dedicated amp,that should sound amazing!
post #1090 of 1448
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post

If headphone listening/fidelity is important to you, I'd get a dedicated headphone amp. Pick up the 105 too for it's stunning analog fidelity. I run my 105's dedicated rca stereo outs to a headroom max amp when I want to listen to my hd800's. I set my headphone amp's volume to a fixed level so I can use the 105's volume control (variable) via the 105's remote.

How does the 105+HD800 sound together?Not too bright for you?
post #1091 of 1448
Quote:
Originally Posted by monsterzero2001 View Post

How does the 105+HD800 sound together?Not too bright for you?
You'll have to break in your 105 for a couple hundred hours before you can honestly say "it's too bright for me" with your hd800's. The 105 sounds amazing after an initial break-in, and the whole frequency spectrum flattens out nicely, but I still use a dedicated headphone amp with my 800's. The 105's headphone stage is not going to replace a $2K dedicated headphone amp.
post #1092 of 1448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ Understand that you are gettin excess bass in that configuration. The bass being sent on the Analog output to the Sub is ALSO present in the HDMI audio for the other speakers as no Crossover processing is happening on the HDMI output. If your main speakers naturally roll off at the Crossover frequency you set for the Analog outputs this could still work.
--Bob

Bob,

The speakers of the Sony 46XBR8 are exceptional, but they don't have LF extension into the range of even a 10" sub. I don't notice the sub as a source of sound. But in playing a Blu-ray of Season 3 of Downton Abbey the pipe organ in a wedding scene put out some pedal notes that I realized couldn't be coming from the TV speakers. I suppose you could set the level or crossover frequency high enough to have the kind of bass overlap you allude to, but my goal is to never be aware of a sub as a sound source.

I must admit that using HDMI with analog to the sub has been luck. I set the level of the sub to equal that of the front LR speakers when using the Proceed Amp-2, but I haven't tried to match the level of the sub to match TV levels.

db
post #1093 of 1448
^ You can get a quick test of how well this is working by using the Subwoofer Crossover test track from AIX, Audio Calibration, Blu-ray.

It sends a tone to Left Front (only) that sweeps back and forth across the Crossover frequencies. Of course that whole range will be sent to your TV's speakers via the HDMI feed. But the lowest frequency bass will also be sent to the Analog Subwoofer output due to the effect of the Crossover processing in the OPPO.

Ideally the volume of that test tone will remain constant from end to end. If your result is reasonably close to that ideal then you've lucked out on this combo and have a pretty nifty solution.

You can tweak the Sub volume trim and/or the OPPO Crossover frequency choice if you find a dip or peak in the tone volume as you go down into the lower bass range.
--Bob
post #1094 of 1448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ You can get a quick test of how well this is working by using the Subwoofer Crossover test track from AIX, Audio Calibration, Blu-ray.

It sends a tone to Left Front (only) that sweeps back and forth across the Crossover frequencies. Of course that whole range will be sent to your TV's speakers via the HDMI feed. But the lowest frequency bass will also be sent to the Analog Subwoofer output due to the effect of the Crossover processing in the OPPO.

Ideally the volume of that test tone will remain constant from end to end. If your result is reasonably close to that ideal then you've lucked out on this combo and have a pretty nifty solution.

You can tweak the Sub volume trim and/or the OPPO Crossover frequency choice if you find a dip or peak in the tone volume as you go down into the lower bass range.
--Bob

Thanks, Bob. This morning I began rethinking your previous post, and realized I had no idea how the Oppo treats a sub when using HDMI output. I suppose the Oppo treats the sub as just another analog audio output, but is the crossover used when It's outputting HDMI? I have the AIX disc and will try it.

In my primary system, the 105 sends HDMI video to a projector and monitor and analog audio to a Cary Cinema 11a set to bypass that audio. The only HDMI audio is from a Sony 5400ES directly to the Cary, and the Cary provides the bass management.

As an aside, but related to bass management, in my primary system, I vacillate between setting the mains to large or small. They have LF extension to 20 Hz, 90 dB sensitivity, and are driven by 500 watts per channel. Oppo assures me that LFE goes to the subs regardless of the size set for the other speakers, so the mains are unlikely to be blasted by an explosion. Still, the idea of bi-amping the extreme LF even for music is appealing. Any advice about the large-small dilemma?

Again, thanks.
db
post #1095 of 1448
^ The Speaker Configuration and Crossover settings in the OPPO *ONLY* apply to its multi-channel Analog outputs.

For HDMI Audio output those settings are ignored -- instead, look for similar settings in your HDMI-capable AVR.



For the Analog outputs, LFE content only goes to the Sub when you have the Sub output set to ON.

My personal preference, if you have a decent Sub, is to set all speakers Small and let the Sub support those channels for bass (as well as the LFE channel). It's a rare "full range" speaker that can handle the lowest bass at volume as well as a Sub.

Note, however, that audio processing, including Crossover, is bypassed for DSD-Direct-to-Analog Conversion and while using the Asynchronous USB DAC Input. So you WON'T get the Crossover for those.
--Bob
post #1096 of 1448
Quote:
Originally Posted by monsterzero2001 View Post

I have a few questions hoping some of you audiophiles can answer for me.

Im in need of a new BluRay player and the guy at the shop was selling me on the 103 not knowing that Im also in the market for an amp/dac for 600 ohm headphones(BeyerDynamic T1's and Sennheiser HD800s).

So im now considering the 105 based on its audio quality.Here are a few questions im hoping can be answered here.

I currently have a Yamaha v861 receiver.If I buy the 105
1..will it be enough power for the 600ohm headphones?
2...how would I hook it up to the Yamaha so that I can use the 105 for its DAC?
3..How would I connect an Astell Kern 120 to the 105 for optimum sound quality?

Thanks in advance.

For HD800 you could be better of buying XLR headphone cable and hooking headphones to Oppo's balanced XLR outputs:
http://www.moon-audio.com/audio-cables/moon-audio-headphone-cables/moon-audio-black-dragon-v2-headphone-cable.html

"The Oppo XLR outs have 4.2 vrms and drive the HD800's well. The Oppo headphone amp jack is, sadly, as worthless as any consumer phone-jack solution, and thus the Dragon's with XLR female."
post #1097 of 1448
Quote:
Originally Posted by RouslanB View Post

For HD800 you could be better of buying XLR headphone cable and hooking headphones to Oppo's balanced XLR outputs:
http://www.moon-audio.com/audio-cables/moon-audio-headphone-cables/moon-audio-black-dragon-v2-headphone-cable.html

"The Oppo XLR outs have 4.2 vrms and drive the HD800's well. The Oppo headphone amp jack is, sadly, as worthless as any consumer phone-jack solution, and thus the Dragon's with XLR female."


?? I was under the impression that it was pretty good - I had plans to buy the HD700 and use them with it :-(
post #1098 of 1448
^ Your impression is well supported by other reviews.
--Bob
post #1099 of 1448
Quote:
Originally Posted by RouslanB View Post

For HD800 you could be better of buying XLR headphone cable and hooking headphones to Oppo's balanced XLR outputs:
http://www.moon-audio.com/audio-cables/moon-audio-headphone-cables/moon-audio-black-dragon-v2-headphone-cable.html

"The Oppo XLR outs have 4.2 vrms and drive the HD800's well. The Oppo headphone amp jack is, sadly, as worthless as any consumer phone-jack solution, and thus the Dragon's with XLR female."
I've read that it only takes a 1 Volt input signal to attain 102 db spl with the hd800's. So, if you hook up the hd800's directly to the 105's xlr outputs, do you limit the 105's volume range from 1-25?? I wouldn't want to listen to music above 100 db.
post #1100 of 1448
I am not a headphone guy and I don't own HD800, but I went to California Audio Show with a friend who was looking to get price no objection headphone solution we've listened to HD800 with a Oppo plugged in directly vs through a tube headphone amp vs hifiman 901 ( http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/11/hifiman-launches-hm-901-high-resolution-audio-player-we-g/ ). To our surprise Oppo was pretty good with many other headphones, but with hd800 HiFiman sounded much better. The was nothing inherently wrong with Oppo driving HD800, it is just in only in comparison you would notice what are you missing :-) Granted, HM-901 is a more expensive solution dedicated and headphone only users
Later I came across that review on moon audio - a person mostly listens to a classical musi
post #1101 of 1448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^
Note, however, that audio processing, including Crossover, is bypassed for DSD-Direct-to-Analog Conversion and while using the Asynchronous USB DAC Input. So you WON'T get the Crossover for those.
--Bob

Curious if the volume control function is available with "DSD Direct" setup? SACD disc, USB file, or network based access to DSD?
post #1102 of 1448
As an additional question, I've read that the 2nd ES9018 is setup to use 1 pair of channels for RCA out, 1 pair for balanced out, and 2 pair "stacked" for headphone amp? This seems odd to me. Why not stack all 4 pair and just feed the various output stages??
post #1103 of 1448
Quote:
Originally Posted by patchesj View Post

As an additional question, I've read that the 2nd ES9018 is setup to use 1 pair of channels for RCA out, 1 pair for balanced out, and 2 pair "stacked" for headphone amp? This seems odd to me. Why not stack all 4 pair and just feed the various output stages??

I've read that as well in a review...what exactly do they mean by stacked?
post #1104 of 1448
They run 4 channels in parallel to basically "average" out the errors. In the "good old days" you could physically stack DACs to accomplish the same thing.
post #1105 of 1448
Quote:
Originally Posted by patchesj View Post

They run 4 channels in parallel to basically "average" out the errors. In the "good old days" you could physically stack DACs to accomplish the same thing.

That's what I assumed - thanks for the knowledge!

So it sounds like the headphones have more "DAC" than the analog outs?
post #1106 of 1448
Hello for some reason the bass started sounding a little light when playing CD's. i checked this on analog as well as HDMI. I checked that my speakers are still set to small and the crossover is still set to 80. i have not knowingly changed any settings on my oppo 105 or AVR. is there any other setting that I can check before raising to trim level? thx
post #1107 of 1448

What amps do you use to connect directly to the Oppo?

post #1108 of 1448
Quote:
Originally Posted by gelly View Post

Hello for some reason the bass started sounding a little light when playing CD's. i checked this on analog as well as HDMI. I checked that my speakers are still set to small and the crossover is still set to 80. i have not knowingly changed any settings on my oppo 105 or AVR. is there any other setting that I can check before raising to trim level? thx
Did you check to make sure the trim levels on your subwoofer(s) hasn't been turned down?
post #1109 of 1448

Next Oppo to have HDMi 2.0 of course to support 4K Projectors to an HT near you as per CEDIA 2013 :)

post #1110 of 1448
Oppo will be showing 103D at show with built in Darbee processing.
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