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Oppo BDP-105 "Sound Quality" Check Thread for Audiophiles - Page 31

post #901 of 1458
^ See the extra comments I just edited in to my post above.
--Bob
post #902 of 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonely Raven View Post

Now, I don't know if this has been brought up before, I only skimmed a few posts in the various forums, but what really caught me off guard was playing these same files directly off USB flash drive!

Suddenly the blacks were blacker and there just seemed to be more weight and impact to the music. The very same music I just streamed from the PC, and played directly from the CD sounded better off flash drive! W-T-F!

Seriously, I wasn't expecting anything, I was just testing some FLAC files I ripped to make sure they sounded good and had no (user) errors since I've never ripped FLAC before...and the music was so attention grabbing I dropped what I was doing and sat down in the sweet spot to listen some more... after listening a bit, I A-B between the original CD and the FLAC files off USB and I swear the USB sourced files sounded better. I can't easily explain it, but that's what I'm hearing.

Anyone else see this as well? I spot checked a few reviews late last night, and they kinda mentioned the same thing, so I don't think I'm the only one.

I noticed the same thing. Exact same thing. I really wanted my mac with Audirvana to sound as good as a flash drive for the convenience factor but there is certainly an improvement playing off of a flash drive. What I am wondering is whether the flash drive sounds better than a ssd hard drive. Anyone?
post #903 of 1458
I guess I was also hoping that a 16/44 cd file would sound better upsampled to 24/192 but it doesn't to my ears. The Audirvana file sounds very very good to be sure, but the flash drive still beats it. Like you said, blacker background. Crisper notes as well.
post #904 of 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by edfowler View Post

I guess I was also hoping that a 16/44 cd file would sound better upsampled to 24/192 but it doesn't to my ears. The Audirvana file sounds very very good to be sure, but the flash drive still beats it. Like you said, blacker background. Crisper notes as well.

I can't imagine upsampling anything sounding better.

If you take 44 pennies and chop them into 192 bits, you still have 44 pennies.
post #905 of 1458
^ Not counting the part that sticks to the knife.....
--Bob
post #906 of 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

This article from OPPO's new Knowledge Base lays it all out for you:

http://www.oppodigital.com/KnowledgeBase.aspx?KBID=15

Note that their 2nd scenario is what is sometimes called "Super Sub" or "Dual Bass". That is, the full frequency range is sent to your L/R speakers AND ALSO bass below the Crossover is sent to the Subwoofer. Some people really like "Super Sub" but it is tricky to get "accurate" output as ALL bass output below the Crossover is effectively doubled (coming out of BOTH L/R and Sub). So you need to tweak the volume of the Sub to match the inherent roll off of the mains, and that Sub volume may, then, not be correct for any LFE content.

In either scenario, LFE content from multi-channel tracks (down-mixed to stereo output in your configuration) will be sent to the Sub (only).

Be sure to check levels using a calibration track and an SPL meter. The output of the Subwoofer jack needs to be boosted external to the player to match the output of the other jacks, and the output of the dedicated XLR jacks is higher than the output of the dedicated RCA jacks. I could run through the combos, but really all that's important is that you check with a calibration track of known quality and adjust the Sub's own volume knob until things are right.

AIX, Audio Calibration, Blu-ray, has LPCM test tracks that work well for this. It also has a Crossover test which sweeps output to the Left Front speaker back and forth across the Crossover range so you can check the correct blending of Mains and Sub. I.e, if everything is correct that sweep tone should be constant volume from end to end.
--Bob

Thanks again, Bob. I have REW and a mic, plus a Radio Shack meter.

I followed the directions, and they worked great for setting up a 2.1 setup when playing CDs! But then I started streaming some FLAC files I ripped, from my HTPC as a source via USB...and the sub went away. So I'm not sure what's up with that. I'm going through the Oppo FAQs to see if there are other solutions for me.
post #907 of 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonely Raven View Post

I received my BDP-105 Saturday Afternoon

I have a Home Theater PC connected to an Onkyo TX-SR805, connected to a host of custom speakers and a 2000 watt sub.

My BDP-105 is currently connected to a "vintage" Decware Zen amp (recently updated by Steve) http://www.decware.com/newsite/tubes.html via some hand made silver interconnects, then to a pair of Decware MG944 speakers (via Monster cable till my silver wire shows up and I make some speaker wire). http://www.decware.com/newsite/speakers.html

So, I've played some CDs, I've downloaded and played some 24/96 files (via USB DAC from HTPC), even watched some True Blood via HTPC to DAC to ZEN to MTM Speakers. All sounds amazing. So much more detail than PC to Onkyo!

Now, I don't know if this has been brought up before, I only skimmed a few posts in the various forums, but what really caught me off guard was playing these same files directly off USB flash drive!

Suddenly the blacks were blacker and there just seemed to be more weight and impact to the music. The very same music I just streamed from the PC, and played directly from the CD sounded better off flash drive! W-T-F!

Seriously, I wasn't expecting anything, I was just testing some FLAC files I ripped to make sure they sounded good and had no (user) errors since I've never ripped FLAC before...and the music was so attention grabbing I dropped what I was doing and sat down in the sweet spot to listen some more... after listening a bit, I A-B between the original CD and the FLAC files off USB and I swear the USB sourced files sounded better. I can't easily explain it, but that's what I'm hearing.

Anyone else see this as well? I spot checked a few reviews late last night, and they kinda mentioned the same thing, so I don't think I'm the only one.

I have noticed that my Marantz NA7004 NETWORK ENABLED DAC sounds better when fed uncompressed WAV files via Ethernet from a NAS instead of digital input from the disc transport, with the difference being more of the relaxing and focusing more on the music and not the "sound".
post #908 of 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by edfowler View Post

I guess I was also hoping that a 16/44 cd file would sound better upsampled to 24/192 but it doesn't to my ears. The Audirvana file sounds very very good to be sure, but the flash drive still beats it. Like you said, blacker background. Crisper notes as well.

In my experience in the last two years when we upsampling like you did, we obtain a more open sound, but we lost in detail. I personally prefer up the bitrate to 24 or 32 if this is possible and left the sampling frecuency intact.
If you could experiment with this and comment I'll apreciate this.
To the second part, is clear that the computer in middle is the "problem", now the point to clear is if the weak link is the hardware or the software IMHO.
post #909 of 1458
well I just started re-ripping my cd/dvda/sacd/hdcd collection as WAV files instead of AIFF so I could display the metadata with the 105. Music files from a usb flash drive sound better to me than the asynchronous usb input and upsampled AIFF files with Audirvana.

I never thought to play it with upsampling turned off but will try it tomorrow. I am too tired now to hook up the cables and a/b the sound. I prefer to listen during the daytime when I can turn up the volume anyway.
post #910 of 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pbnmjk View Post

In my experience in the last two years when we upsampling like you did, we obtain a more open sound, but we lost in detail. I personally prefer up the bitrate to 24 or 32 if this is possible and left the sampling frecuency intact.
If you could experiment with this and comment I'll apreciate this.
To the second part, is clear that the computer in middle is the "problem", now the point to clear is if the weak link is the hardware or the software IMHO.

How can you hope to get more detail from a source that doesn't have it anyway simply by "up-sampling"? If you could go back to the original recorded material, and re-digitise to a higher bit rate or sample rate, fine (provided the original material was recorded to a high standard!). But once the original material has been "dumbed down" to a low bit-rate and low sample rate, that's it: the dumbed-down version can't be restored upwards - the information is lost in the dumbing-down to CD standard. Magic doesn't happen in the real world.
post #911 of 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by edfowler View Post

well I just started re-ripping my cd/dvda/sacd/hdcd collection as WAV files instead of AIFF so I could display the metadata with the 105. Music files from a usb flash drive sound better to me than the asynchronous usb input and upsampled AIFF files with Audirvana.

I never thought to play it with upsampling turned off but will try it tomorrow. I am too tired now to hook up the cables and a/b the sound. I prefer to listen during the daytime when I can turn up the volume anyway.

Any reason why wav files instead of Flac?
post #912 of 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by madaudio View Post

How can you hope to get more detail from a source that doesn't have it anyway simply by "up-sampling"? If you could go back to the original recorded material, and re-digitise to a higher bit rate or sample rate, fine (provided the original material was recorded to a high standard!). But once the original material has been "dumbed down" to a low bit-rate and low sample rate, that's it: the dumbed-down version can't be restored upwards - the information is lost in the dumbing-down to CD standard. Magic doesn't happen in the real world.

I don't expect have more detail upsampling, I expect have the same detail with the "body" of the upsampled frequency, but the process involved cut some information trying to eliminate distortion.

By other side I compared FLAC vs AIFF and ALAC vs AIFF and in both cases I found a very small lost of information, so small that you can't notice it if you dodn't compare, but comparing the difference is clear using the speakers or headphones.
Edited by Pbnmjk - 8/18/13 at 3:22am
post #913 of 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by edfowler View Post

well I just started re-ripping my cd/dvda/sacd/hdcd collection as WAV files instead of AIFF so I could display the metadata with the 105. Music files from a usb flash drive sound better to me than the asynchronous usb input and upsampled AIFF files with Audirvana.

I never thought to play it with upsampling turned off but will try it tomorrow. I am too tired now to hook up the cables and a/b the sound. I prefer to listen during the daytime when I can turn up the volume anyway.

Is an interesting thing that you are losing the metadata using AIFF, I was working in a system based on a Orico RAID5 20TB (16TB usable) > Mac Mini (Amarra) > Audiophilleo > Proceed AVP-2 DAC system, but now that OPPO BDP-105 support AIFF, I was thinking to try the BDP-105 as media player with the RAID and didn't imagine it's could happen.
The other point I need to clear is the amount of songs the OPPO recognize.
If not seems I'll try a chinesse DAC like the YuLong DA8.

I'll wait for your findings.
post #914 of 1458
I tried ripping one cd to flac and the 105 did not display metadata from it. Do other folks have their flac showing metadata? Maybe I did something wrong the first time
post #915 of 1458
Gracenote works with wav but not flac on my 105
post #916 of 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by edfowler View Post

Gracenote works with wav but not flac on my 105

Really what a shame frown.gif
post #917 of 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by edfowler View Post

Gracenote works with wav but not flac on my 105

Did you try with AIFF?
post #918 of 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pbnmjk View Post

Did you try with AIFF?
Aiff was what I tried first. It displays no metadata. Both wav and flac will show album art and basic info. Only WAV shows music information from gracenote
post #919 of 1458
As far as I know, Sony's GraceNote service has no ability to look up track info based on FLAC file signatures.
--Bob
post #920 of 1458
Gracenote does sometimes return album art and other info for video media files; I haven't checked audio files.

The attempted match is by the file name and the results are often comically inappropriate.

-Bill
post #921 of 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonely Raven View Post

I received my BDP-105 Saturday Afternoon

I have a Home Theater PC connected to an Onkyo TX-SR805, connected to a host of custom speakers and a 2000 watt sub.

My BDP-105 is currently connected to a "vintage" Decware Zen amp (recently updated by Steve) http://www.decware.com/newsite/tubes.html via some hand made silver interconnects, then to a pair of Decware MG944 speakers (via Monster cable till my silver wire shows up and I make some speaker wire). http://www.decware.com/newsite/speakers.html

So, I've played some CDs, I've downloaded and played some 24/96 files (via USB DAC from HTPC), even watched some True Blood via HTPC to DAC to ZEN to MTM Speakers. All sounds amazing. So much more detail than PC to Onkyo!

Now, I don't know if this has been brought up before, I only skimmed a few posts in the various forums, but what really caught me off guard was playing these same files directly off USB flash drive!

Suddenly the blacks were blacker and there just seemed to be more weight and impact to the music. The very same music I just streamed from the PC, and played directly from the CD sounded better off flash drive! W-T-F!

Seriously, I wasn't expecting anything, I was just testing some FLAC files I ripped to make sure they sounded good and had no (user) errors since I've never ripped FLAC before...and the music was so attention grabbing I dropped what I was doing and sat down in the sweet spot to listen some more... after listening a bit, I A-B between the original CD and the FLAC files off USB and I swear the USB sourced files sounded better. I can't easily explain it, but that's what I'm hearing.

Anyone else see this as well? I spot checked a few reviews late last night, and they kinda mentioned the same thing, so I don't think I'm the only one.

You didn't mention if you streamed your music from your pc via wi-fi or ethernet cable. I found out early on it makes a discernibly positive difference with ethernet.

That said, I've done numerous a/b tests with well-recorded ripped flacs comparing hard-wired streams vs. the same material on usb flash drives connected to my 105. Neither I nor my audio tweak friends heard any difference in the sq -- both in detail, imaging & 'impact'. I have about 250+ hrs of burn-in with the 105 using the stereo analog outputs to an NAD M2 amp.
post #922 of 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by edfowler View Post

Aiff was what I tried first. It displays no metadata. Both wav and flac will show album art and basic info. Only WAV shows music information from gracenote

The problem is trying to obtain metadata from Gracenote only?
What happen if the AIFF file contains the metadata info, Oppo's music server recognize the information and shows the front cover, artist and album information?
post #923 of 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by edfowler View Post

I tried ripping one cd to flac and the 105 did not display metadata from it. Do other folks have their flac showing metadata? Maybe I did something wrong the first time
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pbnmjk View Post

I don't expect have more detail upsampling, I expect have the same detail with the "body" of the upsampled frequency, but the process involved cut some information trying to eliminate distortion.

By other side I compared FLAC vs AIFF and ALAC vs AIFF and in both cases I found a very small lost of information, so small that you can't notice it if you dodn't compare, but comparing the difference is clear using the speakers or headphones.

Strange, I haven't done it myelf, but I have read posts where people described converting wav to flac and back, and they consistently proved that the second wav file was exactly the same as the first, proving no loss of data.

ED FOWLER:

Are you using dbpoweramp for the ripping process? It generally does a pretty good job with metadata with flac files, sometimes needs a little manual assist with less well-known discs
post #924 of 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by madaudio View Post


Strange, I haven't done it myelf, but I have read posts where people described converting wav to flac and back, and they consistently proved that the second wav file was exactly the same as the first, proving no loss of data.

Some time ago we compared the waves in the University and we can find differences, minimum like in audition , but we can see these. In all case the difference affect more in the effects than in the fundamental, for example, if you listen both files you will find the same info basically, but the delay, reververation, chorus, and so on... have less resolution in FLAC or ALAC, but is something the more of time you can't tell if don't compare in between paying atention. I also compared AIFF 16bits 44.1 kHz or 24bits 44.1kHz vs ALAC or FLAC 24 bits 44.1 kHz, and found the sound in AIFF files was more accurate.
Here we have a group of friends that use to "play music games" comparing files and trying to surprise and catch the others, but in this case we are all agree. In all case I think it depends in the resolution of the audio system.

If you have some findings you can share, would be great.

I use XLD in Mac OS X 10.8.4.
Now Oppo's players accept AIFF files, I'm interested in know how works Oppo's media player with AIFF metadata because I have a RAID full of AIFF files and I have serious interest in buy BDP-105.
Edited by Pbnmjk - 8/18/13 at 6:44pm
post #925 of 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pbnmjk View Post

The problem is trying to obtain metadata from Gracenote only?
What happen if the AIFF file contains the metadata info, Oppo's music server recognize the information and shows the front cover, artist and album information?
None of that. Oppo only displays the folder and file name. Also the length of the track. No cover, artist or album info.
post #926 of 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by madaudio View Post



ED FOWLER:

Are you using dbpoweramp for the ripping process? It generally does a pretty good job with metadata with flac files, sometimes needs a little manual assist with less well-known discs

I used itunes to rip the CDs in AIFF format to my library. I use a mac so I have started using XLD to re-rip my CDs in WAV format.
post #927 of 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pbnmjk View Post

Is an interesting thing that you are losing the metadata using AIFF, I was working in a system based on a Orico RAID5 20TB (16TB usable) > Mac Mini (Amarra) > Audiophilleo > Proceed AVP-2 DAC system, but now that OPPO BDP-105 support AIFF, I was thinking to try the BDP-105 as media player with the RAID and didn't imagine it's could happen.
The other point I need to clear is the amount of songs the OPPO recognize.
If not seems I'll try a chinesse DAC like the YuLong DA8.

I'll wait for your findings.

I have compared WAV on a flash drive to the asynchronous USB input using my mac laptop and Audirvana only without up sampling and feeding the oppo 24/44.1 files and the two are a lot closer in audio quality now. Thanks for the suggestion to play 24/44.1. I think I will probably still rip my favorite CDs to flash drives in WAV however.
post #928 of 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by edfowler View Post

I have compared WAV on a flash drive to the asynchronous USB input using my mac laptop and Audirvana only without up sampling and feeding the oppo 24/44.1 files and the two are a lot closer in audio quality now. Thanks for the suggestion to play 24/44.1. I think I will probably still rip my favorite CDs to flash drives in WAV however.

Thanks for share your findings, all is now very clear for me. Seems I'll try the Oppo BDP-105.

Did you try Amarra instead of Audirvana? I find this is the best software for mac, but I prefer 2.4.5 sound over the new 2.5.1 version, but I like the features of 2.5.1 version. If you can, try both, the sound is very different.
Edited by Pbnmjk - 8/18/13 at 8:55pm
post #929 of 1458
The $50 Amarra, the $189.00 Amarra or the really expensive Amarra Symphony?
post #930 of 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by edfowler View Post

The $50 Amarra, the $189.00 Amarra or the really expensive Amarra Symphony?

Try the $189 Amarra, the sound is the same of Symphony version, you can download 2.5.1 version to try out.
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