DIY sub to best SVS PC13-Ultra

http://www.data-bass.com/home is a start for 1500 u could build all types of things that would blow it out of the water

do u want sono tube like the svs or just a regular box, are u building it all your self ?

Wait a few weeks and you will get your answer as the SI builds will be coming fast and furious. For way less than $1500.00, you could possibly get all you want and more.

Keep cranking,

Robert

+1

If you were just a tad felxible with your budget, and you already have your own tools, you could have quad 18's up and running in no time!

Though a single SI 18" compares well against a single PBU.
Edited by popalock - 1/14/13 at 1:34am

+2. Also, the DIY sound group flat packs should be available shortly for the 18" sub setups - these are great options if no tools are available.

Do you have a size restriction, and are you willing to use a pro amp?

A pair of big ol ported 18"s are within your budget. Even if you want to keep it super simple with a plate amp, you can smoke a PC13.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-472

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-809

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=268-354

24" x 25.5" x 36" box for 10 ft3 with a 19 hz tune using the 6" x 17" port. 118 db capability from the single sub, and you can build two under your budget.

Is IB sub option?

IB will smoke any ported sub and you don't need calender to measure group delay. .

That's a very cult thing to say...lol

Hi brent,

You can do better on that budget. Design is a function of performance objectives, or what you want to achieve with your sub. Since your building it custom, how the sub performs can be custom.

To get better design advice, define:

• Room Size
• What frequency Bandwidth are you interested in covering(How low you wanna go)
• How much power do you have available(How many 20A lines)
• How much real estate do you have available for subs
• How much SPL do you want/need
• What equipment do you have for integration of multiple subs(AVR(auto EQ), EQ, Measurement Gear, SPL meter?)
• Room Closed or open

People have put the SVS on a pedestal b/c its a versatile and capable sub. You have the ability to tailor the sub DIY to your room needs personal taste and surpass the SVS's performance, you just gotta decide what you want, which is normally the rub...

flat down to 18hz isnt that impressive.

Get four Dayton 18HO and call it a day.

Good, looks like you've done some homework on the topic.

I recommend you download WInISD or some other modeling software to play with whatever "finalist" drivers/alignments you come up with to make your final decision while looking at the curves and manipulating the box/alignment real time.

From your clean and low requirement I would recommend subs with shorting rings in the drive to keep distortion low.

I like the suggestion for an all out system above with the 4 HO18s but I don't think that fits your size requrements. Two could fit into that though and would work nicely.

With a square room I would strongly recommend multiple subs. Your height is actually pretty close to 2X the W and D so I'm sure you have some strong modes to deal with.....

When you say door openings, if they cannot be sealed off, the adjoining rooms become part of your theater b/c its actually all one room from a pressurization standpoint.

You mention you want ported. With ported you will need a high pass filter to roll off signal below tuning. You can approximate a high pass with overlaid filters in the BFD but the BFD can't get below 20 with much usefulness. So if you want to tune below 20 you'll need another EQ like Minidsp so add that into your budget.

For the quality output form factor and budget you described I would be looking at either a TC Ultra 18 or XXX 18. There are both for sale in the classifieds from 600-750 each. If you could manage two of either of those you'd have a good amount of output in a small package(or two).

Two of those subs would need at least one seperate 20A line and two EP4000s or one other large capable amp they are power hogs. One would be doable with your current power and would be hard to beat in a small box for the money.

Does $1500 include amp/EQ/Sub/box/finish/etc?

Try to make these decisions in this approximate order,

Driver/Alignment>Box Design>Power Requirements>EQ

If you have any of the decisions to the right made or done, they will influence the decisions to the left.

Brent_B...to be a somewhat dissenting opinion. You don't have to go nearly as overboard as some are suggesting here to equal/better a PC13.

SPL output is simply a function of displacement...surface area * Xmax. A pair of 12s or a single 15/18 will (should) have more displacement than a single 13.5" Ultra driver and therefore, more output assuming you have enough power to use the displacement. I would echo Nick's recommendation to find a low distortion driver...Dayton's Reference series would be a prime candidate, especially for the budget conscious.

In my own 24x16x9 theater room, my measurements (REW with CSL cal'd EMM-6) say a pair of Dayton RSS315HF-4 drivers meet your requirements as stated (105dB, 15Hz) with only about 300 watts/driver on tap. Alignment is 3.5 ft^3 tuned to ~17Hz via slot port per driver. Running *without* a rumble filter, I've never heard them make a bad noise on real world soundtracks. YMMV.

Final T/S Parms haven't been release yet, but Creative Sound Solutions is getting ready to release the the SDX12. For $520/pair shipped, it's a 12" with XBL^2 motor (low distortion) with 28mm of Xmax. A pair of these should make you very happy when compard to a single PC13U. If CSS' previous 12", the Trio12 had been around when I originally bought my 315HF-4s, I probably would have gone Trio12, FWIW.

-Brent

When a ported box is sent a frequency that is below the box's tuning, the driver no longer has the benefit of the air spring in the box to protect it from over excursion. A rumble/subsonic/highpass filter set just below the tuning point will roll of those frequencies to protect the driver from over excursion.

In reality, as long as one isn't too severely over amp'd, it's not as big a deal as some make it, IMHO and IME. The driver's impedance rises quickly below tuning, limiting the power that can actually be delivered. Most modelling tools assume full power is available into whatever impedance the driver presents when calculating excursion and SPL. So, when you model something like a 315HF-4 with a 300 watt input, excursion quickly exceeds Xmax below tuning. In reality, a 4 ohm nominal driver might present 8ohms or more to the amp at 15Hz so that 300 watt @ 4 ohm amp is only capable of sending the driver something between 150-200 watts at 8 ohms.

Secondly, models are usually only done at worst case scenarios (max power amp rating). I'm pretty sure I have enough power on tap to bottom my drivers below tuning, even with rising impedance, if I tried hard enough. However, real world content combined with my own listening habits have never pushed the drivers to that limit.

As always, YMMV due to preferred playback levels, source material chosen, and amp/driver/alignment choice.

-Brent

AFA sealed not having output down low, It really depends on how they are EQed and what room they are in.... In a room which does not provide enough pressure gain to flatten the response you can EQ the midbass down to yield a flat response, but that requires lots of headroom(ie army of sealed subs).

Since you don't seem to have much room gain(your SVS only gets flat to 18) and only building one or two subs, I think your on the right path with ported.

Running at the left and right of the Entertainment center should work ok, but don't count the corners out either so long as you can put a sub in each opposing corner...... I'd try both and measure to see which had the smoothest response. No doubt the corners would provide the strongest response.

The Inukes are solid amps. Prob not enough juice(nu6000) for two TCs or XXXs but prob about right for two HO18s. The dsp on that amp only goes to 20Hz though, same as the BFD.

With the modal issues you are likely to have I would recommend two slightly less expensive drivers which stay within your budget. You still should be able to achieve same output but in a slightly larger package with the benefit of multiple subs.

My recommendation:

4 x Dayton Audio RSS460HO-4 18" Reference HO Subwoofer 4 ohm = $1000.00(Two per cabinet, ported to 17-20Hz).
1 x Behringer NU6000DSP ~ $425 on ebay
2 x Sheets MDF = $70
Hardware, wire, and finish $100

Total ~$1700. That should hang with a SVS Ultra

C'mon man... Just buy my LMS-U's.

They are about as much fun as you can possibly have with your pants on and you will have the bragging rights of owning (what many percieve as) the undisputed king of low distortion high excursion super subs!

Might be a touch over your budget, but just watch this poetry in motion...


Only reason I'm selling is because I couldn't get permission to buy 6 more, not to mention running 3 more dedicated 20amp lines to power the additional amps I would need...

We bass brothers have to help each other out...do me a solid...lol

Ah man no worries, Austin's a cool guy. Im sure he can ship them to you no problem!

Haha
Haha i plugged your subs man, he should buy them!!!

download winisd http://www.linearteam.org/download/winisd-07x.exe real quick easy to learn and then u can see the difference for your self model the ports and such things just dont enter qms let the program enter it for you.

difference between a single lms and 4 daytons would be about 8db so there's really no reason to even compare them lms isn't a good deal in any way.

Damn you Oregonians!

Geez.... I bet even PE would cringe having to send out products to Oregon...

I'm a team player, but man...




Can't really argue with this logic... I've heard the HO's and love them!

Some people like driving Porsche's and some people would rather drive a Vette... Both get you around the track within a few seconds of each other... =)

However, if you are as limited in space as you say you are, then it sounds like you need to get the beefiest, most space efficient subs you can get your hands on...

My only real counter to cookie is: