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DIY sub to best SVS PC13-Ultra - Page 2

post #31 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by cookieattk View Post

difference between a single lms and 4 daytons would be about 8db so there's really no reason to even compare them lms isn't a good deal in any way.

Agreed. However, the only reason i recommended the XXX and TC was small form factor.

Since, 4 HOs would require two boxes, a more realistic comparo would be two TCs against 4HOs. If you get the TCs used the price would be close.

Back to the power: The nu6000 cant do 2ohms so youd only be giving each HO ~550watts each(8ohms=1100wpch). Into 4ohms the nu6000 does 2200wpch so give each TC 2200w and see how the models look then......

Id take two TCs or XXXs with that amp over the HOs, if i could get them for cheap like PL and Beast are selling theirs. I understand shipping eats up the deal a bit though.

Either choice would be superb solutions. Dont put your SVS to close to those babies' ports though, it might get sucked into the port chewed up and spat out..... :P
Edited by NicksHitachi - 1/17/13 at 4:27am
post #32 of 98
Normally the Dayton's and/or SI drivers take the cake (cookie?) for the value advantage, but I'll be damned if P-lock doesn't have some great pricing on some like-new drivers. In the interest of space conservation, and assuming you can work out some reasonable shipping somehow, they seem like a great choice!
post #33 of 98
Thread Starter 
I think the LMS 18's are off the table due to shipping cost. I could almost get a pair of new ones on PE with free shipping for that price. It seems the LMS 15's I was looking at are out of stock until 6-13. Did anyone verify the spike in the curve down in the lower frequencies when put in vented box?

My basic plan for now would be to build 2 seperate single speaker subs and power them with single 2ch amp.

Does anyone have any other suggestions besides the daytons and LMS's?
post #34 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by brent_b_23 View Post

I think the LMS 18's are off the table due to shipping cost. I could almost get a pair of new ones on PE with free shipping for that price. It seems the LMS 15's I was looking at are out of stock until 6-13. Did anyone verify the spike in the curve down in the lower frequencies when put in vented box?

My basic plan for now would be to build 2 seperate single speaker subs and power them with single 2ch amp.

Does anyone have any other suggestions besides the daytons and LMS's?

Stereo Integrity 15" or 18" ? ($220/$240 shipped)

Why did you nix the Dayton RSS460HO-4 then?
Edited by djkest - 1/17/13 at 11:51am
post #35 of 98
Thread Starter 
I haven't eliminated them yet. They are actually at the top of the list just want to make sure I explore all my options. Thanks will check those out.
post #36 of 98
I just finished reading up on the Stereo Integrity Subs. They have some impressive specs for the $$. I wasn't aware that they were shipping in numbers but it looks like they are in stock in the dual 4ohm version. The more ideal impedance 2+2 version is out of stock.

Man that surround is Mean looking! If they are durable and the specs are the real deal, they might de-throne the HO18 as the value leading 18........

I really want to model these two subs against each other now and just see how they compare.
post #37 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

I just finished reading up on the Stereo Integrity Subs. They have some impressive specs for the $$. I wasn't aware that they were shipping in numbers but it looks like they are in stock in the dual 4ohm version. The more ideal impedance 2+2 version is out of stock.

Man that surround is Mean looking! If they are durable and the specs are the real deal, they might de-throne the HO18 as the value leading 18........

I really want to model these two subs against each other now and just see how they compare.

Where have you been lately, under a rock? biggrin.gif

There are quite a few SI builds going on at the moment. I wouldn't say the D2 is the ideal impedance. Most guys who are building these for DO duty are going to see the most benefit from the D4's. That gives you a 4 ohm load which mates up perfectly to a 2 channel amp in bridged mode.
post #38 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

I just finished reading up on the Stereo Integrity Subs. They have some impressive specs for the $$. I wasn't aware that they were shipping in numbers but it looks like they are in stock in the dual 4ohm version. The more ideal impedance 2+2 version is out of stock.

Man that surround is Mean looking! If they are durable and the specs are the real deal, they might de-throne the HO18 as the value leading 18........

I really want to model these two subs against each other now and just see how they compare.

It's already been done, in the thread. I even did it, on page 17 I think. The Stereo Integrity is a little bit "lower", F3 sealed is ~31 for SI and ~34 for the Dayton. Otherwise they are very similar. The SI has a slight edge "down low" but the Dayton is "happier" in a smaller box.
post #39 of 98
Could always buy my 2 JTR Captivators and be done with it! UPS will ship...
post #40 of 98
Thread Starter 
Ok need some help. Thinking about doing single vented box with opposed dayton 18 HO's in ~8 cu/ft box with tuning at 15hz.
What are your port recommendations?
Slotted port, single round, dual round?
Where is the preferred placement on the cabinet?
Been modeling in winisd and keeping an eye on port velocity and it does not seem to be a big issue.
Thanks.
post #41 of 98
Thread Starter 
Also cant seem to find the volume that the speaker takes up in the enclosure. Where can I find that. Thanks again.
post #42 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by brent_b_23 View Post

Also cant seem to find the volume that the speaker takes up in the enclosure. Where can I find that. Thanks again.

I didn't see that stat on Daytons complete spec sheet. I would guesstimate 0.25 - 0.3 cubic feet per driver.

I tried some stuff in Win ISD and I'm not sure I'm in love with your proposal. 8 cubic feet for 2 drivers is just too small; at that point the 15 Hz tune doesn't provide much if any boost. I like as an alternative 10 - 12 cubic feet tuned to 17 or 18 Hz. You could use 3x 4" round ports and you'll be okay on port velocity up to 1000 Watts. Round ports with larger inside diameters tend to exhibit less chuffing than equivalent cross-section slot ports.
post #43 of 98
Thread Starter 
What specifically was bad about the 8 cu ft box? or was it that I wanted to tune to 15hz with that box size? I see when I changed to 10 cu ft box I got a bump around 16.5 hz. I would not have thought this was desirable.
post #44 of 98
4 cu ft is close to how much the driver should have sealed, thats why its not actually doing any good in a ported alignment. If im not mistaken youll get a bunch of port noise and thats it.
post #45 of 98
Hi Brent,
My brother Kyle texted me this morning & told me what you are looking for. If you have questions, feel free to get my phone number from Kyle & I can help you out. The suggestions on here so far have all been very good. Ported is more efficient down low but will drop off below tuning. Sealed will work well with a bit of boost & power. Kyle's setup is a pair of Tempest X's in about 3-4 cubes each with 650 watts each(they are 15's). The Dayton's or Stereo Integritys would push a bit more air than Kyle's.....hard to go wrong with either one. The ported boxes are going to be pretty big....8 ft or bigger EACH. Let me know how I can help.

Bob
post #46 of 98
Thread Starter 
I just figured out why my graph in winisd was so different from what other were recommending. I ran the modeling for isobaric thinking that meant dual opposed speakers. Haha newbie mistake. It graphed nicely anyways.
Thanks.
post #47 of 98
Dual opposed is sealed not vented
post #48 of 98
Thread Starter 
Well I knew what I was talking about what happened to the rest of you.wink.gif

Thanks.
post #49 of 98
Thread Starter 
With ported setup I now see all the extra issues with port velocity, cone excursion below tuning and the need for high pass filter among other things. So with a sealed dayton setup how much extra power would I need to EQ down to 15hz? When graphing with a pair in a 8.5cu ft box Its down 15db at 15hz. Not sure how much room gain is going to help me.

Thanks again.
post #50 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by brent_b_23 View Post

With ported setup I now see all the extra issues with port velocity, cone excursion below tuning and the need for high pass filter among other things. So with a sealed dayton setup how much extra power would I need to EQ down to 15hz? When graphing with a pair in a 8.5cu ft box Its down 15db at 15hz. Not sure how much room gain is going to help me.

Thanks again.

I personally wouldn't rely on room gain. I consider it icing on the cake, IMO.

With sealed you need multiples and or big power to dig deep with strong output. A lot of it depends on what you consider good enough.
post #51 of 98
Thread Starter 
Realistically I would be happy with flat to 18hz and good output below that.
post #52 of 98
Flat at what output level? Flat to 90 db? 110? 120?
post #53 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by brent_b_23 View Post

With ported setup I now see all the extra issues with port velocity, cone excursion below tuning and the need for high pass filter among other things. So with a sealed dayton setup how much extra power would I need to EQ down to 15hz? When graphing with a pair in a 8.5cu ft box Its down 15db at 15hz. Not sure how much room gain is going to help me.

Thanks again.

Taking your 8.5ft3 box and putting the SI and Dayton 18s in there the HO is a better performer. The SI doesnt even get close to xmax with rated power in that or any reasonable sized box. Hopefully some testing will show it can take more RMS power than 600W, otherwise all that xmax will go to waste unless your running it IB.

Now since it appears 8.5ft3 is the biggest box you can manage I would suggest backing down to the HO15. I like its graph better in 8.5ft3 than even the 18HO. A bigger driver isn't always better if you shoe horn it into a small box.

Heres the HO18(Red) and the HO15(Grey) in 8.5ft3 tuned to 18Hz on 1250Watts(NU3000DSP@8OHMS bridged).

66437

HO18vsHO15.JPG 121k .JPG file

Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

I just finished reading up on the Stereo Integrity Subs. They have some impressive specs for the $$. I wasn't aware that they were shipping in numbers but it looks like they are in stock in the dual 4ohm version. The more ideal impedance 2+2 version is out of stock.

Man that surround is Mean looking! If they are durable and the specs are the real deal, they might de-throne the HO18 as the value leading 18........

I really want to model these two subs against each other now and just see how they compare.

Where have you been lately, under a rock? biggrin.gif

There are quite a few SI builds going on at the moment. I wouldn't say the D2 is the ideal impedance. Most guys who are building these for DO duty are going to see the most benefit from the D4's. That gives you a 4 ohm load which mates up perfectly to a 2 channel amp in bridged mode.

Yeah I don't keep up with driver manufacturers day to day updates. I knew a few drivers were filtering out but last time I checked their stite they were OOS. They(SI) are actually pretty close to me I might see if I can checkout their operation.

I meant the D2 was ideal for someone hooking two drivers to a pro amp 4ohms per channel as in the OPs case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by djkest View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

I just finished reading up on the Stereo Integrity Subs. They have some impressive specs for the $$. I wasn't aware that they were shipping in numbers but it looks like they are in stock in the dual 4ohm version. The more ideal impedance 2+2 version is out of stock.

Man that surround is Mean looking! If they are durable and the specs are the real deal, they might de-throne the HO18 as the value leading 18........

I really want to model these two subs against each other now and just see how they compare.

It's already been done, in the thread. I even did it, on page 17 I think. The Stereo Integrity is a little bit "lower", F3 sealed is ~31 for SI and ~34 for the Dayton. Otherwise they are very similar. The SI has a slight edge "down low" but the Dayton is "happier" in a smaller box.

Theres a million ways to model a driver, F3, excursion, and FR plot are box dependent which is why every case is different. Change the box and the ideal driver changes.
post #54 of 98
Thread Starter 
Lets say flat to 105db at 18hz.
If I go ported I am not going to try to do 2 drivers in one cabinet that is 8.5 cu ft. Thanks for the suggestion on the 15" driver. I will play with modeling on those.
Do you guys think I can get low enough If I go sealed with two 18 HO's in 8.5 cu ft box?
post #55 of 98
A dual oppsed box that size with two Dayton 18's and around 1000 watts per driver will exceed 105db at 18Hz. You could even go a little smaller. If building just one, I would suggest using the Stereo Integrity 18 D4. You could wire them as a 4 ohm load and use a bridged ep4000 amp.
post #56 of 98
Thread Starter 
Thanks. I can see that it still has good output. So to get flat response if my room was perfect I would use the EQ to cut about 15db at the top or add a little boost down low and cut less up top?
post #57 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by brent_b_23 View Post

Thanks. I can see that it still has good output. So to get flat response if my room was perfect I would use the EQ to cut about 15db at the top or add a little boost down low and cut less up top?

It all depends on what effect your room has but yes, you get the idea.
post #58 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by brent_b_23 View Post

Lets say flat to 105db at 18hz.
If I go ported I am not going to try to do 2 drivers in one cabinet that is 8.5 cu ft. Thanks for the suggestion on the 15" driver. I will play with modeling on those.
Do you guys think I can get low enough If I go sealed with two 18 HO's in 8.5 cu ft box?

I would personally do 4x18" HO (in two boxes or four boxes) and then an inuke 6000 or cerwin vega 5000.

Youll easily hit 105db at 18hz and they wont break a sweat. The nice part is you can shape the signal with something like minidsp to use a low shelf to be flat to 12-13hz i bet.
post #59 of 98
Thread Starter 
Thanks for all the help so far. Just ordered 2 dayton 18's and supplies for 2 boxes. I am still not sure if I will do 2 separate boxes or 1 dual opposed setup. Looking into amps now. Looks like the go to amps are the CV5000, inuke 6000, and Crown XLS5000. Any others I should consider? I want some expandability in case I decide to do 2 more woofers.
post #60 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by brent_b_23 View Post

Thanks for all the help so far. Just ordered 2 dayton 18's and supplies for 2 boxes. I am still not sure if I will do 2 separate boxes or 1 dual opposed setup. Looking into amps now. Looks like the go to amps are the CV5000, inuke 6000, and Crown XLS5000. Any others I should consider? I want some expandability in case I decide to do 2 more woofers.

Nice. The Cerwin is a great current option that works well with dual or quad drivers. Everyone I know that has purchased that amp so far has been happy with it. The Crown is a great amp too but not available for the same price currently. Believe me, once you hear the 2 subs you're going to want to go QUAD eventually or even immediately. The fact that you can do quad 18s with amp for the price of a single Ultra speaks volumes to the value of DIY. biggrin.gif
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