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DIY sub to best SVS PC13-Ultra - Page 3

post #61 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by brent_b_23 View Post

Thanks for all the help so far. Just ordered 2 dayton 18's and supplies for 2 boxes. I am still not sure if I will do 2 separate boxes or 1 dual opposed setup. Looking into amps now. Looks like the go to amps are the CV5000, inuke 6000, and Crown XLS5000. Any others I should consider? I want some expandability in case I decide to do 2 more woofers.

I would also put the EP4000 on your short list. I think this gives the most flexibility for pricing. Dual setup run one EP4000, with each driver getting 900 watts (assuming you go with SI's for a 4 ohm total load). Dollar output 275.00. If you decide to upgrade later you can pickup another EP4000 for another 275.00. Less upfront and overall cost than the CV while accomplishing the same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Believe me, once you hear the 2 subs you're going to want to go QUAD eventually or even immediately. The fact that you can do quad 18s with amp for the price of a single Ultra speaks volumes to the value of DIY. biggrin.gif

Agreed. That's why most of us just start with at least 4. smile.gif

As I mentioned to someone earlier; I paid less for 6 SI's, 2 EP4000's, and all materials than I did for my PB12/2 Ultra a few years ago.
post #62 of 98
I too went from various iterations of SVS Ultras until I finally decided to go DIY. I have never looked back and have so much fun and learned so much.smile.gif
post #63 of 98
Thread Starter 
So you guys feel that there are any appreciable sound quality difference between any of the amps?
post #64 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by brent_b_23 View Post

So you guys feel that there are any appreciable sound quality difference between any of the amps?

Not really, just get more power than you need. In some cases, clipping the amp can do the most damage. I am a firm believer in using 50% or under at all points in the system at most times to include drivers and amps.

Some amps will roll off below 10Hz, but that is not an issue in most designs. I would definitely go with a pro amp.
post #65 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by brent_b_23 View Post

So you guys feel that there are any appreciable sound quality difference between any of the amps?

For a subwoofer, no, IMO. Guys may throw out damping factor and such, but I'd love to see anyone do a blind A/B test and tell which amp was being used (equal power and eq). As long as you are not introducing clipping, pick the one with the most power for the price. The clones and EP4000's are really popular around here. I like the EP's as you have less issues with them (compared to say the clones), they don't roll off till way down low, and they are dirt cheap. If going with a slew of drivers the clones are tough to beat though.
post #66 of 98
Thread Starter 
Are you talking about he LG clones? Do they have to be bought directly from MFG?
post #67 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by brent_b_23 View Post

Are you talking about he LG clones? Do they have to be bought directly from MFG?

Chinese version.
post #68 of 98
"I like the EP's as you have less issues with them (compared to say the clones), they don't roll off till way down low..."

you probably know, but they can rolloff a bit in max power by 20hz. same is true with the inukes apparently if not a little more so

http://www.avsforum.com/t/855865/measuring-amplifiers/60#post_10755537.
post #69 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"I like the EP's as you have less issues with them (compared to say the clones), they don't roll off till way down low..."

you probably know, but they can rolloff a bit in max power by 20hz. same is true with the inukes apparently if not a little more so

http://www.avsforum.com/t/855865/measuring-amplifiers/60#post_10755537.

What's interesting with those tests is it rolls off in 2 ohm mode but in bridged mode it actually gains a bit.
post #70 of 98
Thread Starter 
So for my wiring options I can configure the 2 drivers as 4 ohm separate, 2 ohm parallel and 8 ohm series. It's late this seem right? 4 drivers would be hard to configure based on amp info below.

Well it looks like the inuke 6000 will not do anything in 2 ohm or bridged mode. So It kind of limits my wiring options. For 2 drivers I guess I would have to run one off of each channel at 4 ohms which is fine. If I got 4 drivers I guess I would have to run in 8 ohm load? Am I missing something?
The EP2500 or EP4000 look like they are a little low on power for 2 drivers based on actual measurements. 4 ohm stereo is 633 watts and 2 ohm bridged is not recommended. 8 ohm is too low and really is not an option.

So does this kind of force me to look at a different amp?

For the CV5000 I could not find any actual measurements. Took results from MFG site:
Rated Power:
Stereo @ 8 ohms 1100 W
Stereo @ 4 ohms 1800 W
Stereo @ 2 ohms 2500 W
Bridge @ 8 ohms 3600 W
Bridge @ 4 ohms 5000 W

What do you guys think?
post #71 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by brent_b_23 View Post

So for my wiring options I can configure the 2 drivers as 4 ohm separate, 2 ohm parallel and 8 ohm series. It's late this seem right? 4 drivers would be hard to configure based on amp info below.

Well it looks like the inuke 6000 will not do anything in 2 ohm or bridged mode. So It kind of limits my wiring options. For 2 drivers I guess I would have to run one off of each channel at 4 ohms which is fine. If I got 4 drivers I guess I would have to run in 8 ohm load? Am I missing something?
The EP2500 or EP4000 look like they are a little low on power for 2 drivers based on actual measurements. 4 ohm stereo is 633 watts and 2 ohm bridged is not recommended. 8 ohm is too low and really is not an option.

So does this kind of force me to look at a different amp?

For the CV5000 I could not find any actual measurements. Took results from MFG site:
Rated Power:
Stereo @ 8 ohms 1100 W
Stereo @ 4 ohms 1800 W
Stereo @ 2 ohms 2500 W
Bridge @ 8 ohms 3600 W
Bridge @ 4 ohms 5000 W

What do you guys think?

I've owned the CV-5000. It's a great amp that I would recommend to anyone! It's also notably quiter than the Crown amps I've come across and the iNuke I used to own. However, I would still suggest a fan mod if you are going to have the amp in your listening area.

Unless you are absolutely dead set on being content with a pair of subs, get the CV-5000 and don't look back. This will leave you the flexibility buy a single pair now and add another pair down the road when you realize there is no such thing as too much bass...

With that said, if there is any possibility at all of you wanting more than quads, you might as well purchase a Clone now to save some money in the long run.
post #72 of 98
Thread Starter 
I just ordered a new inuke6000dsp for less than half what any of the bigger amps were costing. I will only use it to power 2 drivers with 4 ohms stereo which should be plenty of power. If I end up wanting to run more than 2 drivers I will buy the LG clone amp from Johnson at sanway. Going to pick up MDF, glue and a few more clamps tomorrow. Still not sure if I am going to do dual opposed or 2 single boxes yet. Drivers should be here on Friday so maybe I will get inspired when I see them and make up my mind sooner.
post #73 of 98
Congrats brent!

The 6000 is about the max i would recommend running on the same line as the rest of your equipment.

It can/will suck 15amps continuous which dont leave much current reserve for the rest of your stuff. Not dangerous or anything, but you could see some voltage drop over a 12Ga line with that load depending on run length.

I would def run a ded line for something like a LG clone.... An extra line is "cheap" insurance IMO.
post #74 of 98
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the info. I can run another line if I need to. Will keep an eye on power draw.
post #75 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by brent_b_23 View Post

I just ordered a new inuke6000dsp for less than half what any of the bigger amps were costing. I will only use it to power 2 drivers with 4 ohms stereo which should be plenty of power. If I end up wanting to run more than 2 drivers I will buy the LG clone amp from Johnson at sanway. Going to pick up MDF, glue and a few more clamps tomorrow. Still not sure if I am going to do dual opposed or 2 single boxes yet. Drivers should be here on Friday so maybe I will get inspired when I see them and make up my mind sooner.

+1

Well played sir....
post #76 of 98
Good deals on the inuke6000dsp amps lately. Just picked up a brand new one for $425.
post #77 of 98
Thread Starter 
Yep, great option as long as you are only going to run 4 or 8 ohm loads. Actual measured power was decent for the money as well.
post #78 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by brent_b_23 View Post

Yep, great option as long as you are only going to run 4 or 8 ohm loads. Actual measured power was decent for the money as well.

And you don't mind missing any sub 20hz material. smile.gif
post #79 of 98
If the reliability was better I would have ordered a 14000 clone. I can't take the chance that it shows up DOA or breaks down. I'll take 2 of the inuke6000dsp amps and be happy.
post #80 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post

If the reliability was better I would have ordered a 14000 clone. I can't take the chance that it shows up DOA or breaks down. I'll take 2 of the inuke6000dsp amps and be happy.

...
post #81 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

...

X2 or 3 depending on PL's statement, lol.

I really wanted to try one but figured with my luck, I'd better stick with the EP's.
post #82 of 98
Why go with the iNuke 6000 over the EP4000? Doesn't the iNuke roll off sharply below 20khz?
post #83 of 98
^It doesn't have dsp cap below 20, but AFAIK its amplification extends comparably as low as the EP4000.
post #84 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post

If the reliability was better I would have ordered a 14000 clone. I can't take the chance that it shows up DOA or breaks down. I'll take 2 of the inuke6000dsp amps and be happy.

John - In your situation with 8 x 8ohm subs, the 14K clone wouldn't be working efficiently. You would be running it at 8 ohm stereo and would be getting 2350 watts to each channel with four subs. The FP10000Q 4 channel version would have been more appropriate anyway since you would be running a pair of subs per channel in 4 ohms.
post #85 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Why go with the iNuke 6000 over the EP4000? Doesn't the iNuke roll off sharply below 20khz?

Besides the added DSP functionality, the Inuke6k is far more powerful than the EP4000. This is assuming of course you don't have the need to run it in bridged mode or 2 ohm stereo.

Inuke6000 bench tests around 1800W per channel @ 4 ohm in the 'sub zone' vs. ~700 or so for a comparable test in the EP4K.
post #86 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Besides the added DSP functionality, the Inuke6k is far more powerful than the EP4000. This is assuming of course you don't have the need to run it in bridged mode or 2 ohm stereo.

Inuke6000 bench tests around 1800W per channel @ 4 ohm in the 'sub zone' vs. ~700 or so for a comparable test in the EP4K.

That is impressive. I did not know the inukes were that powerful in the 'real world'. Is that from chasw's tests?
post #87 of 98
^^^I rocked an iNuke 6000DSP, definitely powerful enough for any ordinary subwoofer ($1,000 super-subs exempted). If all you've got is a 15 amp line, it'll just about max out your circuit. Digs deep, I ran sine waves as low as 4hz and a sweep that started at 1hz. Handled everything. Fan mod, that's all I can say. And don't accidentally wire it 2 ohms eek.gif just be careful it's not as fault-tolerant as more expensive amps i.e. you can break it. That's the other thing I know from 'personal experience'. Not the amps fault.
post #88 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

That is impressive. I did not know the inukes were that powerful in the 'real world'. Is that from chasw's tests?

http://forum.speakerplans.com/behringer-inuke-nu6000-vs-kam-kxd7200-bench-tested_topic69202_page1.html

Pretty impressive for the money involved here. Of course they won't hold a handle to the LG clones in 4 ohm stereo, but they are ~double the cost too.
post #89 of 98
So, you ordered two of the Dayton RSS460HO-4 correct?

If you are trying to mimic the SVS, you are going ported right?

I've been doing some M&S on this scenario, and I keep thinking 2 x 4" ports about 29" long for a tuning freq of 18 Hz is just about where I'm at. That's a 22x23x32" box, and the ports will need a 90 degree elbow. I'm wanting to use thin-wall PVC "sewer pipe" but it can be hard to find. The regular schedule 40 PVC is 4.5" OD and eats up a lot of internal volume. (about 0.6 cubic feet!)

A single 6" port might be nice but it would have to be even longer. About 33". 1130 cubic inches displaced
post #90 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

http://forum.speakerplans.com/behringer-inuke-nu6000-vs-kam-kxd7200-bench-tested_topic69202_page1.html

Pretty impressive for the money involved here. Of course they won't hold a handle to the LG clones in 4 ohm stereo, but they are ~double the cost too.

Ya, for the money, that is the bomb. I may have to order one myself, 12 lbs!?!?!? WTF?!
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