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Has anyone actually experienced the "Holy Grail" of Sound - Page 3

Poll Results: Have you experienced the "Holy Grail" of sound

This is a multiple choice poll
  • 20% (14)
    No, I do not have it.
  • 13% (9)
    Yes, I have it.
  • 19% (13)
    Yes, but it is not mine.
  • 1% (1)
    No, but I know someone who has.
  • 42% (29)
    There is no "Holy Grail" - The chase continues!!!
  • 8% (6)
    There is no "Holy Graill" I gave up the chase!!
68 Total Votes  
post #61 of 139
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

I was just talking about that with my wife, about how one reporter who covers the 'extreme high end' joked that after a certain point, audiophiles 'lose all taste in music' as they start to hunt for recordings that 'sound right' on their systems. So far, I have been enjoying (almost) everything to the point where I am being more adventurous in my listening... so it is ubiquitous.


I too have been listening to the full gamut. I just get these moments and pop the music in and all the world is better.


Keep cranking,

Robert
post #62 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

I was just talking about that with my wife, about how one reporter who covers the 'extreme high end' joked that after a certain point, audiophiles 'lose all taste in music' as they start to hunt for recordings that 'sound right' on their systems. So far, I have been enjoying (almost) everything to the point where I am being more adventurous in my listening... so it is ubiquitous.

I am basically already there, the number of well-recorded recordings that have the exact type/style of music I prefer and are willing to tolerate, are growing smaller by the day.
But instead of aborting the baby with the bath water as it were, I just 'suffer' through it and turn a blind eye to the flaws that are displayed raw in front of me; that's all that can be done, and my system isn't even all that 'extreme', some would consider it entry-level even...

I feel the world would be a much better place if dynamics-compressors and lossy-compression codecs were never invented... or at least had never become as popular/mainstream as they have.

I admit, I do in fact absolutely 'hunt' for such recordings. It's not that the unwell-recorded tracks don't sound at their "best" on such systems... it is that they "still" sound like the not-good sound that they are. I think that is what gets under the skin of those types of people.

Some people are just very sensitive (or atuned) to distortions, and are noticing them more than the average-joe. It's the whole gift/curse thing. Once you know what to look for, you find it everywhere it occurrs. (Which is a lot.)

For example, this happens will movie producers as well. Once you know how all the special effects are done, all movie magic sheen is lost on them. They can see all of the tricks and gimmicks and flaws, and they 'hate' watching movies, they see it for the fakeness that it is and cannot get absorbed into the make-believe 2D simulation no longer.
Edited by BassThatHz - 1/18/13 at 1:51pm
post #63 of 139
1. Do you keep the old and enjoy it just the same? I keep the old gear I have for other rooms and sometimes keep it for the main room
2. Do you discard the old in favor of the new?No
3. Do you trade up just to get new features with no real increase in performance (just features)? No, I try to only upgrade what will yield an improvement in sound/Video upscaling. All other features can be added with a HTPC, Roku, or AppleTV
4. Do you feel that the old stuff is not as good as the products offered today?In some price segments I think the older stuff can offer a much higher value than the new. Look at the price of a new turntable for instance.
5. Do you feel that most equipment upgrades are just not upgrades at all but just trading one for another? Yes, some receivers add small, useless features that are not really needed and increase the price for the new model year
6. Do you ? Receivers/Processors used to focus only on the audio. Today they focus on audio, video, satelite radio, internet radio, pandora, calibration, DLNA, etc. I personally would give up all the extra features to just have pure sound control
post #64 of 139
Here's what ~$9300 dollars worth of 2 channel equipment sounds like. (Quad mono-block system, 8400w peak power on tap.)

These songs are near-flawless recordings IMO. (The CD originals that is, not my youtube stream LOL)






OR, if you want the subwoofered-up... full-scale $35,000 experience. (2-ch Quad mono-block system, with all subs pumping, ~30kW peak power on tap)
Basically the only difference from above is, more bass & played back at a higher SPL level.
post #65 of 139
^^^

I almost went the B&W route four years ago when I first started putting my HT system together. Loved the 802D and was OK with getting 3 of them for LCR but the JTR Speaker thread made me realize I wanted more clear output and SPL.

Listening to that makes me wonder if I made the right choice! I absolutely love how the B&W tweeters sound. So smooth and balanced. Maybe I am headed towards a Neosis upgrade to my Triple 12LF.
post #66 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

Here's what ~$9300 dollars worth of 2 channel equipment sounds like. (Quad mono-block system, 8400w peak power on tap.)


OR, if you want the subwoofered-up... full-scale $35,000 experience. (2-ch Quad mono-block system, with all subs pumping, ~30kW peak power on tap)
Basically the only difference from above is, more bass & played back at a higher SPL level.

Man, considering what I have learned about DIY over the past few years on this forum, spending that much on equipment would bug me.

Hell, it bugs me now knowing what I have spent on my (way cheaper than yours) 5 channel surround sound. Intro SEOS and I could have built my own 5.1 or 7.1 for about half of what I spent and see a massive performance gain!

I wonder what I (or some others in here) could do with $35K...

biggrin.gif

Since we are talking $$$, I'd venture to say that your $35K setup would compare well against some of the $10K DIY systems or some of the $200K systems over on Audiogon...

It just seems hard to associate a $ figure on "The Holygrail."
post #67 of 139
B+W is a brand I determined is 'not right for me'. The sound is too conservative - assuredly refined and flat - it's not surprising that their 801 is used as a studio monitor by Abbey Road. I mix music, I appreciate that quality in a speaker, but it's not what I want out of my 'entertainment' system. I Now that I'm into DIY it's just about impossible to imagine going back. I believe in maximum headroom - you can pry my subs out of my cold dead fingers. More than anything, CD horns put a smile on my face, I've never heard a dome that I liked as much.
Edited by imagic - 1/19/13 at 7:09am
post #68 of 139
801 is used as a studio monitor by Abbey Road

...not because that's what the engineers chose, but because they were part of an endorsement deal.
post #69 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrager View Post

801 is used as a studio monitor by Abbey Road

...not because that's what the engineers chose, but because they were part of an endorsement deal.

This ^ ^ ^

Their offerings have been quite nice, but it seems you don't see B&W stuff much in studios of mastering houses anymore. They were an aspect of my personal holy grail, years ago. 801s, and their construction were fantastic. But man, I wanted a pair of 808s, ... dynamically, I knew of very little hifi wise, that were likely as stout, dynamically, as the 808's,...I wanted them,..but damn were they expensive, like $8k each in the mid 80s (way too much). And I'm talking back 25-30 years ago. The studio offerings of JBL and Westlake were even more stout, they still are,...and damn, ... the home versions like that SM-1 (1000lbs., TAD equpped, 5-way, dual-18) was and still is, an absolute beast.

Throughout, the 70's, 80's and 90's, I was involved in live, to two-track recordings, and I still dabble today. Aside from live music, my favorite on location sources, were big, enormous, steam locomotives. My Dad and I traveled the country making high end recordings of trains, a la Brad miller of MoFi fame. Well, few things are as demanding dynamically as live steam locomotives,...the big ones. There's only a few left in the US, maybe three good ones. I always thought something like the B&W 808's had my name all over them,...never happened. They were available in both a studio/soffited version, and a more typical floorstander here. There were crazy, multi driver monsters out there, but I wanted total fidelity too. At the time, I wanted no horns, super high quality and capability, ... the 808s were it ... I thought.

Keele's (and Eargle) work on the JBL two ways, and constant directivity (JBL 4430, etc.), was just hitting the studio market. They could hit the levels I wanted, but the front loaded hifi design appealed to me more. I shoulda payed more attention to Keele's work,...genius. His AES papers, damn I love reading all that stuff. Way ahead of his time. Even today, he's still churing out great work.

With regard to the big steam trains, maintenance expense and insurance regulations have dramatically reduced the frequency and all but eliminated these big locomotive excursions. There's but a few left, and my personal fave; the Challenger, UP #3985, here, is the most incredible piece of machinery I've ever seen in my life. When it approaches off in the distance, with the wonderfully rich tonality of it's steam whitsle echoing off the surrounding lanscape, ... I watch my meter level accordingly. The ambient insect noise slowly makes way for the buildup of energy as the locomotive gets closer. The engineer begins whistling for the crossing where I'm set up. The tactile element via the ground is equalled by the visceral element against my skin, the entire body becomes involved in the sound excitation. Nothing like it.

The uncompressed dynamics of experiencing it live, words cannot convey. The peak energy involved in a trackside passing, can't adequately be described, ... and is obviously demanding. And just like the approach, the sound as it trails into the distance is equally as dramatic,... the loudness wanes as the insects become more prominent, the gorgeous tone of the locomotive is heard whistling for the next few crossings. As one can imagine, the incredible dynamics are killer, no doubt. But it's also the thick, lush reverberrant rich sound, both approaching and departing, that's so sweet to capture and reproduce. The direct energy, accompanied by the trailing reverberrant echos that illuminate the surroundings, .... talk about imaging, it's all there.

I digress, .. My point is I struggled mightily to play back some of these tracks with dynamic faithfullness. This led me to products from VMPS, and pro studio monitors. Additionally, it also introduced me to Speaker Builder magazine, Vance Dickason's "Cookbook", and all the wonderful DIY efforts going on in the 80's, and on into the 90's. Pre internet, sources like this were priceless, and industry giants like D'Appololito, et al, submitting lengthy tutorials in every issue were wonderful sources of info. High end drivers from TAD, Eton, Focal, Dynaudio, and JBL, made for some superbly capable efforts.

I've been thru DIY, Cerwin Vega, Speakerlab, Polk, Klipsch, JBL, QSC, and now the Cat12C. I'm happy, and for now, I've moved on to fully optimizing the speaker/room, acoustic interface. Holy grail? .... not yet. I've heard it though, a handful of times, ... that's a different post.

Damn, what a meandering, rambling rant. All from the B&W mention ...

All the best
post #70 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Since we are talking $$$, I'd venture to say that your $35K setup would compare well against some of the $10K DIY systems or some of the $200K systems over on Audiogon...

I think it might be more than that popalock, I have about $13,000 in amplification alone; and all the subs are already DIY, which is additional money.
and a lot of my stuff I bought used... so it would be nearly impossible to beat this for much less than what I basically paid, if purchased brand new or even going DIY for the front speakers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

B+W is a brand I determined is 'not right for me'. The sound is too conservative - assuredly refined and flat - it's not surprising that their 801 is used as a studio monitor by Abbey Road. I mix music, I appreciate that quality in a speaker, but it's not what I want out of my 'entertainment' system. I Now that I'm into DIY it's just about impossible to imagine going back. I believe in maximum headroom - you can pry my subs out of my cold dead fingers. More than anything, CD horns put a smile on my face, I've never heard a dome that I liked as much.

Your horn tweeter graphs measured amazingly on paper. You guys should upload some videos. I'd like to see what they sound like, and what 100db/watt mains with "maximum headroom" playback sounds like.
post #71 of 139
There is no way I could hear any JTR products in my area; even something well known like JBL there may only be two shops in town.
My location is too remote and too small-town'ish to be able to audition much of anything.
So I'd have to purchase it almost entirely blindly or make a pair myself, at my own expensive and risk.

On some level, it kind of makes me wonder exactly how loudly you guys are listening to music with your mains????
My B&W's are only 90db/watt, 9x less efficient than horns... so they are definitely not as suitable for attempting to reach deafening rock concerts levels or filling an IMAX theater with loud sounds.
But even with clones and large subs, they still can't overpower my mains as-is.

But some of your mains are like 100db/watt (or more)... so you must be requiring the need to be playing stuff back at 120db worth of treble.
I couldn't even imagine how painfully loud that would be, nor can I see how it would be enjoyable, or all that necessary.
I could see needing them if you throw a lot of parties and want to make crowds of drunk people happy by sizzling their ears off. Drunk people aren't happy with anything less than bleeding.

Even with clone amps ready to explode from being overloaded and such, any drunk guests I've ever had over were never all that "happy" with the hi-fi sound. It wasn't 'loud' enough for them. Despite having 9 subs and clones and such. Just saying... biggrin.gif
post #72 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

There is no way I could hear any JTR products in my area; even something well known like JBL there may only be two shops in town.
My location is too remote and too small-town'ish to be able to audition much of anything.
So I'd have to purchase it almost entirely blindly or make a pair myself, at my own expensive and risk.

On some level, it kind of makes me wonder exactly how loudly you guys are listening to music with your mains????
My B&W's are only 90db/watt, 9x less efficient than horns... so they are definitely not as suitable for attempting to reach deafening rock concerts levels or filling an IMAX theater with loud sounds.
But even with clones and large subs, they still can't overpower my mains as-is.

But some of your mains are like 100db/watt (or more)... so you must be requiring the need to be playing stuff back at 120db worth of treble.
I couldn't even imagine how painfully loud that would be, nor can I see how it would be enjoyable, or all that necessary.
I could see needing them if you throw a lot of parties and want to make crowds of drunk people happy by sizzling their ears off. Drunk people aren't happy with anything less than bleeding.

Even with clone amps ready to explode from being overloaded and such, any drunk guests I've ever had over were never all that "happy" with the hi-fi sound. It wasn't 'loud' enough for them. Despite having 9 subs and clones and such. Just saying... biggrin.gif

I don't listen anywhere near those levels (120 db's) with my jtr's. for me the difference is in the dynamics. A gunshot, for example, gets a completely different reaction from me with my jtr's than it did when I had speakers that were in the low 90's for sensitivity.

Not only are the dynamics so much better, but music sounds incredible on the Noesis. Such a smooth, sweet, full sound that has a huge soundstage and great imaging. For the first time in my life I'm strictly a 2 channel guy when it comes to music, my Magnepans couldn't even pull that off. So for me it's the best of both worlds. A speaker that sounds better for music and movies than anything I've ever heard.

Now, I have heard a lot of speakers including a few models of B&W's but I've never heard yours so I don't have any idea how the Noesis would compare to them.
post #73 of 139
When it comes to the horns and treble - The reason I get a good graph has everything to do with headroom. Since I am using a constant-directivity horn, there is a natural falloff in the highs which reaches about 15db at 20,000 hz. I EQ that away (well most of it anyhow, I leave a bit of house curve)... So no, that power level does not translate to ear-bleeding highs, at least not in my system. It simply restores them to the levels one would expect from a 'flat' HF transducer. I EQ 20,000 at +12 (to keep a bit of 'house curve'), so it takes 16 watts at the top to keep up with 1 watt at 1Khz. The same HF CD horn that is so loud in concert, when pushed to do true HiFi duty becomes much more (relatively) modest in capability. Same thing happens with bass and ULF, live sound applications require cutting the bass off before power and excursion demands blow up the system.

Quoting JBL here: "For most drivers intended for high quality sound or music reinforcement, the mass break-point is in the 3500 Hz range. Above that frequency, the response falls off at 6 dB/octave. In many applications, the fall-off can be ignored, since it may correspond, more or less, to accepted system equalization practice. But in the cases of studio monitoring and music reinforcement, the inherent roll-off of the driver will have to be compensated for."..."JBLs most recent passive dividing network designs have provision for such compensation. Inasmuch as the high-frequency portion of a system is always padded down relative to the low-frequency portion, there is power to spare, thus allowing the compensation to be made with­out additional power input."
Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post


On some level, it kind of makes me wonder exactly how loudly you guys are listening to music with your mains????

But some of your mains are like 100db/watt (or more)... so you must be requiring the need to be playing stuff back at 120db worth of treble.

I couldn't even imagine how painfully loud that would be, nor can I see how it would be enjoyable, or all that necessary.
I could see needing them if you throw a lot of parties and want to make crowds of drunk people happy by sizzling their ears off. Drunk people aren't happy with anything less than bleeding.

Even with clone amps ready to explode from being overloaded and such, any drunk guests I've ever had over were never all that "happy" with the hi-fi sound. It wasn't 'loud' enough for them. Despite having 9 subs and clones and such. Just saying... biggrin.gif

Edited by imagic - 1/20/13 at 8:36am
post #74 of 139
When I really want to feel the bass train, I keep my music on decent listening levels and crank up the bass. I can't deal with 120dB's worth of treble in music. For peaks in movies I'm fine but music is a different story.
post #75 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

When I really want to feel the bass train, I keep my music on decent listening levels and crank up the bass. I can't deal with 120dB's worth of treble in music. For peaks in movies I'm fine but music is a different story.

Ok, so I have a few questions about bass, subs and altering the levels to what we like to hear. With a 2 channel system it's pretty simple, turn on the system and put the volume where you want it.

What I don't like it all these options, adjusting sub levels and running things hot depending on how we want things to sound. So help me understand how I can have my system reproduce the source without me adjusting things to how I like it. How do you manage all these sub option when recordings are all different as well? It kind of bugs me that my subs are set at X for one recording and then X+2db for others.

This probably isn't the proper thread to discuss be the above post had me wondering....
post #76 of 139
I use the volume knob on the amp that runs the subs. I know where 'flat' is on the dial, so I can reset for movies after a music session. For music, I tweak 'on the fly', usually album by album. When listening to a playlist, I live with the subs at one level, usually flat. Some movies force me to turn the bass down as well. I'd say most stuff sounds great to me between flat and +3db, so the knob does not move much. Crossover is at 80, phantom center.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post

Ok, so I have a few questions about bass, subs and altering the levels to what we like to hear. With a 2 channel system it's pretty simple, turn on the system and put the volume where you want it.

What I don't like it all these options, adjusting sub levels and running things hot depending on how we want things to sound. So help me understand how I can have my system reproduce the source without me adjusting things to how I like it. How do you manage all these sub option when recordings are all different as well? It kind of bugs me that my subs are set at X for one recording and then X+2db for others.

This probably isn't the proper thread to discuss be the above post had me wondering....
post #77 of 139
I generally just turn on more subs. I have switches for all my amps in the main HT room. if I'm craving more bass, I turn on a few more subs. That way I never have to mess with any settings.
post #78 of 139
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post

Ok, so I have a few questions about bass, subs and altering the levels to what we like to hear. With a 2 channel system it's pretty simple, turn on the system and put the volume where you want it.

What I don't like it all these options, adjusting sub levels and running things hot depending on how we want things to sound. So help me understand how I can have my system reproduce the source without me adjusting things to how I like it. How do you manage all these sub option when recordings are all different as well? It kind of bugs me that my subs are set at X for one recording and then X+2db for others.

This probably isn't the proper thread to discuss be the above post had me wondering....

I really do not like options myself. I like 2 channel stereo and I use DTS or Dolby 5.1. I rarely use any of the extra modes and I just play the dvds or Bluerays in the format they were recorded. That said, I usually just play movies in my HT, but if I do music, the subs seem to be more than enough for what I happen to be listening. I use the Subwoofer level on the remote for the Integra to raise the output in 1/2 dB steps usually for a dB or 2.

Sooner or later, I will be finishing the install of the whole HT, so maybe I will use the Audyssey MultEQ XT and see how that goes. I tried it when I first got the Integra but I did not like the outcome. Maybe time and a few more tweaks will lead to better results.


Keep cranking,

Robert
post #79 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post

Ok, so I have a few questions about bass, subs and altering the levels to what we like to hear. With a 2 channel system it's pretty simple, turn on the system and put the volume where you want it.

What I don't like it all these options, adjusting sub levels and running things hot depending on how we want things to sound. So help me understand how I can have my system reproduce the source without me adjusting things to how I like it. How do you manage all these sub option when recordings are all different as well? It kind of bugs me that my subs are set at X for one recording and then X+2db for others.

This probably isn't the proper thread to discuss be the above post had me wondering....

To solve the leveling issue, what I've done is to config the source output to be at maximum at 0-Ref(clip) and the amp output stages to be at maximum at 0-Ref(clip)... relative with to a "known" level on the pre-amp (with the bass response curve EQ'ed to the way I like it).
In this way, all I have to do is adjust the level with my remote relative to the "known" maximum, depending on how agressive or compressed the source material is and how loud I want it to be; and of course never exceeding the max (unless I'm familiar with the song in order to avoid bottoming out the subs).

Now if the song isn't flat, then "oh well"... that's how my system is going to play it back.

That said, I could probably find an XLR based pre-amp on PE to attach to the bass lines of my treble pre-amp to allow them to be remotely controlled independently. I'll have to look into this...
A bass-remote and a treble-remote (or just one universal switcher)... Sweet!
What a great idea!!! (pats self on back) biggrin.gif
post #80 of 139
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

To solve the leveling issue, what I've done is to config the source output to be at maximum at 0-Ref(clip) and the amp output stages to be at maximum at 0-Ref(clip)... relative with to a "known" level on the pre-amp (with the bass response curve EQ'ed to the way I like it).
In this way, all I have to do is adjust the level with my remote relative to the "known" maximum, depending on how agressive or compressed the source material is and how loud I want it to be; and of course never exceeding the max (unless I'm familiar with the song in order to avoid bottoming out the subs).

Now if the song isn't flat, then "oh well"... that's how my system is going to play it back.

That said, I could probably find an XLR based pre-amp on PE to attach to the bass lines of my treble pre-amp to allow them to be remotely controlled independently. I'll have to look into this...
A bass-remote and a treble-remote (or just one universal switcher)... Sweet!
What a great idea!!! (pats self on back) biggrin.gif



So..., in ou rcollective experience of chasing or having the "Grail", we are more in search of the ultimate in sound and feel in the bottom octaves or full range or...... Any thoughts?


Keep cranking,

Robert
post #81 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

I generally just turn on more subs. I have switches for all my amps in the main HT room. if I'm craving more bass, I turn on a few more subs. That way I never have to mess with any settings.

Must be nice to be able to turn on as many subs as you feel haha
post #82 of 139
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

Must be nice to be able to turn on as many subs as you feel haha


No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!



Now that is what I am talking about. Each person has a frame of reference as to what the ultimate in sound truly is. Have you ever desired to try to reproduce those sounds from the Corp or are those sounds that are better left alone? Thanks for the service!!

Keep cranking,

Robert
post #83 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertcharles View Post

So..., in our collective experience of chasing or having the "Grail", we are more in search of the ultimate in sound and feel in the bottom octaves or full range or...... Any thoughts?

Keep cranking,

Robert

I would say that the criteria would be:

1) It must have vanishingly low distortion throughout the audible-band (at least).
There should be no significant hiss, hum or ground-loop.
It shouldn't sound digital or digitized, i.e. 8-BIT sampling for example tongue.gif LOL
No listener fatigue, even after 2 to 8 hours non-stop.

2) As wide a bandwidth as possible, at least 20 to 20khz (or better).

Those two aren't optional IMO.

3) As high a dynamic range as obtainable. (One might consider THX Ref level as a minimum criteria for this; sounds reasonable to me.)


Basically, being "as true to the source as possible", preferably be an exact replica (within reason).
I want to be able to have my ears 'fooled' into thinking that I'm listening to a human singing in my room directly, not a "human via a mic, undigitized and amped through speakers" (even though deep down we all know that that is what it is).
If it were a true blind test condition I ideally wouldn't want to be able to tell that it was a reproduced simulation vs the real thing.

(Note: There is no live-performance equivalent of computer generated music, such as techno. So there are limits to that generalization. Let's not over-analyze things to that degree.)

The first 3 are measurable metrics, the rest is (more or less) subjective and varies by individual (and their past experiences / knowledge domain).

For me, that about sums it up; and hits all the key points I could think of or wanted to make.




I feel that I am there, to a large degree. (There are still quirks, it's not perfect, but there is no major roadblocks IMO.)
Not sure if you can tell from my videos or not...
post #84 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertcharles View Post

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!



Now that is what I am talking about. Each person has a frame of reference as to what the ultimate in sound truly is. Have you ever desired to try to reproduce those sounds from the Corp or are those sounds that are better left alone? Thanks for the service!!

Keep cranking,

Robert

Hhhhhoooaaaa!

While I wasn't a door basher or a "shooter" per se, I've spent 4 years of my career in a war zone as both active duty Air Force and Army Civilian. 2 years in Iraq and 2 in Afghanistan.

While I love this hobby, I'm convinced that NOTHING in our hobby will ever come close to recreating the experience of indirect fire or mortors exploding 20 meters from your sleeping quarters.

If any system can recreate that experience, I think I'll pass...
Edited by popalock - 1/25/13 at 5:15am
post #85 of 139
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Hhhhhoooaaaa!

While I wasn't a door basher or a "shooter" per se, I've spent 4 years of my career in a war zone as both active duty Air Force and Army Civilian. 2 years in Iraq and 2 in Afghanistan.

While I love this hobby, I'm convinced that NOTHING in our hobby will ever come close to recreating the experience of indirect fire or mortors exploding 20 meters from your sleeping quarters.

If any system can recreate that experience, I think I'll pass...


I have seen tons of fireworks displays over the years. If there ever was a thing that I enjoy over and over again, it is a fireworks display. The explosions and colors are just something to behold. The report of some of the big ones when they are far away has seemingly so much power and low frequency energy. I have listened to the Danley recording many times and it is truly amazing how close to reality it comes with that recording. I think it has to do with the distance that the recording was made. The power in those reports is intense and it is very fulfilling to experience such a powerful recording and feel like you are really right there as it is happening. That is kind of how I knew my LFE system was doing what it was designed to do. Measurements are great and all the testing is fine, but when it comes down to it, if the system puts a grin on your face every time you turn it on, you have done it right for yourself. Looking forward to your build.


Keep cranking,

Robert
post #86 of 139
Explosions create hypersonic shockfront overpressures, exceeding 194db. It doesn't go very far maybe a 100ft for large non-nuclear. Obviously nuclear explosions create them for miles, that's why stuff is flying apart.
So unless you can make the cone go faster than the speed of sound, it ain't anywhere near that violent.
That would require pumping a 4.2khz burst into an LMS and making it go full xmech; ain't happenin' tongue.gif
post #87 of 139
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

Explosions create hypersonic shockfront overpressures, exceeding 194db. It doesn't go very far maybe a 100ft for large non-nuclear. Obviously nuclear explosions create them for miles, that's why stuff is flying apart.
So unless you can make the cone go faster than the speed of sound, it ain't anywhere near that violent.
That would require pumping a 4.2khz burst into an LMS and making it go full xmech; ain't happenin' tongue.gif



ROCKVILLE, MD–With an eye to the upcoming Fourth of July celebrations, the American Speech-Language-Hearing Association (ASHA) issued an advisory this week to Americans everywhere to protect their hearing from exposure to Independence Day’s traditional fireworks displays.

ASHA warned that the noise from exploding fireworks can reach 155 dB– louder than a military jet taking off. As a result, spectators anywhere close to where the pyrotechnics are set off run the risk of suffering sudden and possibly permanent hearing loss.

The 150,000-member association of audiologists, speech-language pathologists, and hearing and speech scientists specifically urged parents to take the following measures to protect their children:

• Sit at least 500 feet from where the fireworks are launched. Fireworks noise for those 800 feet away ranges from 88 to 126 dB. But from 10 feet away, it’s 155 dB!




I happen to like the fireworks from a distance- fairly distant from the actual explosion itself. I had my SPL meter with me once and the SPL's were around 100- but it "felt" a lot louder to me. I think it has to do with the vastness of the open area between me and the detonation- it was in Disney at a good distance from the display. The same report when viewed up close-easily compared because the display is always the same- just seems "louder" but lacks the impressive feeling of power. I try to watch the displays from different perspectives to see how it changes the feeling of the reports. Recreating the sounds and "feel" from larger distances seems possible for high performance LFE systems, whereas recreating the actual close-up explosion of the mortor itself would not.

I set off so many fireworks every year it is hard to describe. I have been buying direct from a distributer since I could remember- My family is the main distibuter in my city- they actually are based in Gretna, La. I have had so many explode near me-really close and no matter how small they were, they were loud- really loud .I would not want to recreate those sounds in room nor could I, but there is something about distant explosions that is just magical and those are the ones I strive to recreate. I go to Disney about 10 days per year and I see the fireworks every night I am there- they are that impressive. Plus, they do all the work and I can enjoy them with my family.





Keep cranking,

Robert
post #88 of 139
Thread Starter 
Seems as though the poll results are pretty diverse with There is no "Holy Grail" - The chase continues!! leading the way.


Keep cranking,

Robert
post #89 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertcharles View Post

Seems as though the poll results are pretty diverse with There is no "Holy Grail" - The chase continues!! leading the way.


Keep cranking,

Robert

I love this hobby.

However, I wish I could be satisfied already... Sure would make home life easier... frown.gif
post #90 of 139
i think i"ve heard what i thought was real clean, undistorted broad bandwidth reproduction that left me wanting very little more. it all depends on your taste. now, on the other hand if you set out a reference of numbers and criteria then that changes everything and my system would probably fall short somewhere.....
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