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Denon 3313 vs Onkyo 818 vs????

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
I will give you a little background on my home theatre setup. I have a 120" projection screen that is new. I have a pair of TSi 400 and a CS20 for my front speakers. I have a set of polk surrounds as well(don't know the model off hand). I know they are not the best speakers but for my room that has 9ft ceilings and is about 15ft wide and about 20ft deep they sound pretty good. I do have a 10" sub from Polk as well that I will be replacing in the near future with a DIY 12" or possible even 2 10" subs. I currently have an Onkyo 607 that has been great for me. It has plenty of power and does most everything I need. I connect everything via HDMI and then run 1 HDMI to my projector. The biggest thing that I am missing is network capabilities as I want to 2 way feedback on my ipad via Irule.

Here is where I need the help. I have searched and read the forums inside and out. I like Onkyo and have good luck with them but I have heard of a lot of problems with them. I have also been looking at Denon 3313ci. I have also been looking at the Onkyo 818. On both of these models they have the dual output that I want to use on a small monitor that will be in my media closet. Airplay and all the other features will be nice and I will use them but mostly I want the dual output of HDMI and and the ability to control via ip and feedback through Irule.

which one would you recommend? Any other recommendations? Thanks everyone in advance

almost forgot...budget wise I would like to stay right around 1k or even less
post #2 of 14
Thread Starter 
I saw that I can get the 3313 for $800 over at accessories4less.com. I have seen good reviews from people on here about them but how does the warrantly work on a refurb? Would people recommend a refurb?

I also see that the 3313 has 3 HDMI outs. I know that two will be the same source but how does the 3rd work? Thanks
post #3 of 14
Thread Starter 
bump


really looking for help from the experts on here. Thanks in advance
post #4 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadcj7 View Post

bump

really looking for help from the experts on here. Thanks in advance

Well I noticed your thread, so I thought I'd share some info:

I would suggest going to this link of the 818 owners thread
and do some research, as there is a 24p playback bug with a certain number of models, including other models mostly around the 809 and 818, hdmi out 1 is where the problem is, when playing back a blu ray movie back at 24p, the bug is causing a processing issue where the movie playback causes some video abnormalities, it was enough for some of the owners to return their 818's, including myself.

You can use HDMI out2 for no video processing, but it will be using the display device you would be using, that video scaler, and it would be at 60p.

Now on the other hand, if you want the 818 for Audyssey Multi-eq XT32 and dual sub correction, and all of the other Extras, that come with it, and your willing to wait out for a firmware fix, then consider the 818, my 10 Klipsch speaker set-up never sounded better, but I did not like the VP issue, but mostly I would read starting from the last post, and work your way backwards like 20 plus pages, then at least your informed.

I always goto the owners thread of anything I'm considering on buying, that way I should know who's already bought it, using it, and posting about it, just to help me be informed....
post #5 of 14
Thread Starter 
thanks for this information. I have read some of the information on the 24p issue with the 818. There is just so much information and it is all so hard to decipher sometimes.

I would not want the video processing to be done on my Panasonic 8000 projector. You said that you had the 818 and returned it due to this issue. What did you decide to go with?

I like the idea of the Audyssey XT32 but how much difference will I see in the Audyssey XT that the Denon has?
post #6 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadcj7 View Post

thanks for this information. I have read some of the information on the 24p issue with the 818. There is just so much information and it is all so hard to decipher sometimes.

I would not want the video processing to be done on my Panasonic 8000 projector. You said that you had the 818 and returned it due to this issue. What did you decide to go with?

I like the idea of the Audyssey XT32 but how much difference will I see in the Audyssey XT that the Denon has?

Well, I have not found another receiver yet, I'm still using my 8 year old Yamaha RX-V2095, and use it with my Panasonic AE4000U Projector, a Panasonic Blu ray player, and going to consider a different receiver at another time, as I'm looking to move later this summer or towards fall, and already starting the designs on a serious dedicated room, where I would need a new high end receiver then, so not looking to buy a new receiver twice, but I started looking into Integra, they seem to have several models that show up at Audyssey's web page, as well as a few of the Denon, and many of the top end Onkyo's.

I tried searching for Onkyo's newest receiver models, the 3010 and 5010 models, to gather any info from the most recent models, I did go into the 3009 thread, and a few of them stated no issues with 24p playback, as far as I'm concerned, this playback issue will be resolved, as it's isolated to a number of units, it's not been seen in the top end models ( yet ) so I really think Onkyo's higher end models are good to consider, I would have kept my 818, but I had 30 days to try and decide, the 818 was way too much power for my family room, but I got a sweet deal on it on Cyber Monday, that I figured, what the heck, all I can say is that my 10 speaker klipsch set-up never sounded so good, the detail of my klipsch towers were like they were totally new, right out of the box, I was shocked at how much improvement there was.

As you stated, there is so much info and really hard to decipher what's what, it all depends on how much your willing to spend on how nice you want it to sound....

There is a thread talking about the real Differences of MultEQ XT and XT32 in Onkyo here at Audyssey support forum
, maybe you could try a search there for Denon....

Official Audyssey thread: http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1

Hopefully Markus and or
Here is an example of someone that bought the Denon 2112, and running MultiEQ XT this past May: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1411391/multeq-xt

Here is a link direct at Audyssey's site, showing all the receivers that have each of the different levels of Audyssey: http://www.audyssey.com/products?field_multeq_flavor_value[]=MultEQ+XT32&pid=All&ptype=5

It's mostly Onkyo, Integra, and a few Denon, Marantz is in there with MultiEQ XT, you can check the different boxes to search for other models.

Hopefully the following will stop buy and lend their experience, and provide some feedback to your question:

jdsmoothie - has many links to audyssey and denon in his signature
kbarnes701 - has many links to audyssey in his signature
markus767 - has been doing a-lot of work with audyssey and XT32 with the 818
or anyone else that can lend a hand biggrin.gif
Edited by TheaterChad - 1/17/13 at 6:44am
post #7 of 14
In that price range you can find the Pioneer Elite SC61, SC63 or the standard models 1222K or 1522K. True 4 ohm support and top notch video processing.

Also the Yamaha 1020, 2010 etc....

I wouldn't get too hung up on Audessey versus the other ARC software.
post #8 of 14
Agreed with this. I have a Denon 3311 and bought the Pioneer SC-1222 (same as SC-61 without Elite Logo/Warranty). And I thought the 3311 sounds great; but this Pioneer sounds even better!!!. Very powerful; very clean output. and yes; the Video Processing is Excellent. I have the Onlyo 515 too which has the same video upscaling chipset; and when I do upscale on the Pioneer; the images looks better than when upscaling with Onkyo. Audessey vs Advanced MCACC is like a war; but if you like to tweak your audio after calibration then Pioneer is the way to go. ON Audessey you can't!....

Bass is deep and very clean on the Pioneer; on my Denon 3311 sometimes it gets boomy;. I performed this test on same room; same speaker placemen; same subwoofer and same source (Avengers - Avengers Assembled Scene and Hulk - Sonic Boom Scene; both on Bluray).

I have no idea how much difference is 3313 vs 3311 but; I prefer the Pioneer. I was sckeptical at MCACC but after trying it is really awesome!.... Plus you have 6 memory banks you can save for your different types of EQ; or you can even create a custom one as you wish.
post #9 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheaterChad View Post


Now on the other hand, if you want the 818 for Audyssey Multi-eq XT32 and dual sub correction.....

Note that the 818 does not include Sub EQ HT which would provide for the dual sub correction as is featured on the 1010 and higher level Onkyo modelswith XT32.
post #10 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Note that the 818 does not include Sub EQ HT which would provide for the dual sub correction as is featured on the 1010 and higher level Onkyo modelswith XT32.

Howdy jdsmoothie!

Could you please elaborate on Multi-EQ with the Denon, as chadcj7 was wondering about the 3313 vs 818 in the difference between Multi-EQ vs XT32 for the 818, any noticable difference to help decide each way or the other? I'm sure it's all personal preference....

I noticed a couple of reply's about the pioneers and MCACC, which I'm sure work well to some degree as the others ( just really depends on how serious everyone wants to get....LOL ) no difference between ford vs chevy, vs dodge, vs tastes great vs less filling......biggrin.gif

Thanks.
post #11 of 14
As most owners who have made the jump from an XT model to an XT32 model have indicated there is a noticeable improvement in audio fidelity. If you've never experienced Audyssey before on a previously owned model, then the basic MultEQ or XT will still serve you very well.

Also, the Zone 2 (HDMI) out on the 3313CI is designed to pass an HDMI source (same or different from the main zone) to an HDMI sync (ie. TV or another AVR).
post #12 of 14
Thread Starter 
on the 3313 will the second HDMI that can send an independent source pass digital audio through the HDMI?

Is the only model that Denon has the XT32 on the 4520? I would love to have this unit but it is way to much for what I need

What do you all think of purchasing from Accessories4less.com?
post #13 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadcj7 View Post

on the 3313 will the second HDMI that can send an independent source pass digital audio through the HDMI?

Is the only model that Denon has the XT32 on the 4520? I would love to have this unit but it is way to much for what I need

What do you all think of purchasing from Accessories4less.com?

My understanding is that it will pass audio but the details seem fuzzy to me. I'm unclear exactly how this works, I believe I saw something that suggested you would either need an AVR or a TV in another room which could then access all the sources over HDMI. You may want to check the offical XX13 Denon thread there's a lot of good info there. I'm currently trying this receiver out but I have no use for the extra HDMI output so I haven't really looked into this.

Much like yourself, I've been considering these two AVRs as well as the Pioneer SC-65 so I thought I would share my thoughts:


Pioneer SC-65:

Great AVR, I got a great deal on it ($1K) and thought for sure it would be a keeper, plus it also had room to grow with 9 channels of amplifications though that's not much of an issue for me as wides don't fit in my HT room and due to WAF the heights were a no-go. It's overall SQ with music, as well as movies at reference or near reference levels was great (a bit better than the Denon 3313) but with no SubEQ low end bass was not as smooth as with the Denon 3313. Also,and for me this is a big - no Dynamic Volume or equivalent was a big letdown - enough to make me look elsewhere. As well, though the Pioneer has THX Loudness plus as a substitute for Dynamic EQ I would give the edge in effectiveness to Dyanmic EQ (I don't know which is more accurate but Dynamic EQ amplifies softer sounds more so and I found that more pleasing).

Denon AVR-3313

I installed the Denon 3313 into my setup on Sunday and so far I can tell you the Denon 3313 works great, its HDMI switching is very fast and has no handshake issues. Even though I use it in a large room (2,700 cubic feet) it capably drives my 7 speaker setup to the reference level (though my speakers are 8 ohm polks and I have them all set to small and use an 80Hz crossover). The remote app for my iPad is a great addition, airplay works great and it can pass through 24fps material without a hiccup (many complaints about this being a problem in the 818 thread).

Relative to the Onkyo 818 I only see a couple of signicant advantages:

- No 24fps bug
- Airplay
- Extra HDMI Output

On the other hand, the Onkyo has the following signficant advantages:

- MutliEQ XT32
- Extra HDMI Input
- More Power

Though I can find a bench test for either, the Onkyo is bound to have more power weighing in at 40 lbs versus 26.5 for the Denon. As well, max power consumption is listed as 670w for the Denon and 890w for the Onkyo suggesting the Onkyo will likely perform a fair bit better with 7 channels driven. On the other hand, with 7 channels driven, last year's Onkyo 1009 (similar weight relative to 818) and Denon's 3312 had similar 7 channels driven performance according to hometheater.com - Onkyo 86.1 vs Denon 79.5, though the Onkyo exhibited greater advantage in 2 and 5 channel tests.

Overall, I would say you can't go wrong with either of these two AVRs. You can work your way around the 24fps bug on the Onkyo by outputting 1080p60 and you can buy an ATV for airplay. On the other hand, where the Denon is concerned, I'm not convinced that the lack of XT32 is a dealbreaker, and by my calculations even if the Onkyo bench tested at 50% more power, that would only transalte into a 1.5db advantage - afterall having sensitive speakers is more important than having more power. To add one more wrinkle to this, if you don't need Dynamic Volume and have a Sub with its own EQ the Pioneer SC-65 may be the best choice for you.

Anyway, good luck with your decision.
post #14 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadcj7 View Post

on the 3313 will the second HDMI that can send an independent source pass digital audio through the HDMI?

Is the only model that Denon has the XT32 on the 4520? I would love to have this unit but it is way to much for what I need

What do you all think of purchasing from Accessories4less.com?

1. The Zone 2(HDMI) will pass any of the rear panel HDMI source inputs (only) to include audio and video to either a TV (using the TV speakers) or to another AVR and then from the AVR on to a TV using the 2nd AVR to power the Zone 2 speakers.
2. Yes, the 4520CI is the only current Denon model with XT32, although you may be able to find its predecessor, the 4311CI on clearance.
3. AC4L provides refurb items which come from Denon with a 1 year warranty (2 years if your credit card adds a 2nd year) and is often recommended in this forum for refurb units.
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