Is it the resolution, or the quality of the panel

I have the 43" E450 Samsung ( 720p) and 50" TC-P50U50 (1080p) set up side by side hooked up to Dish HD
I am seeing a quality difference despite the claims by many that at normal viewing distance on should not be able to see the difference between 720p and 1080p

Note I have a smaller room and can only be max about 8 feet back from any screen, I wanted smaller but LCD/LED look terrible on Dish HD even after 2 techs checking the set ups and trying many brands and quality in that tech. The issues I have are less noticed with plasma.


The one issue is that the I can not find a 42" 1080p plasma to compare to. Best buy had an open box 50" so I pushed it back about 1.5' to help compensate for the size issue.

THe P50u50 is set about 1.5 feet back, and still looks sharper believe me, I wanted it not to be true in some ways since I kept reading the eye cant see the difference. . Yes it is close at 7+ feet,but there is a difference noticed. E450 just looks softer in faces. Watching faces on the 1080p panel set at 8 feet, I could see detail that was softened on the 720 panel. Side by side I would go with the 50" but I still have an issue with the size of the panel for the room. Plus I was not able to get the flesh tones right P50u50 and whites still are a bit gray compared to the 43" E450. I have found various settings on the net and tried WOW, but still not qite getting it to be ideal to my eye. However that said, still there is a sharpness on the 1080p not present in the other. The P50u50 has some hot spots even thoug the blacks are better some areas in the whites are getting blown out even though the whites are on the gray side. Also shes tones are on the greener side it appears. But as I said, even so, there is a sharpness not in the E450 at the current settings.

I am debating how much how this is due to resolution or how much of this is the quality in the panel.
that is creating what apears to be sharper detail. But I still think I am seeing a more defined detail even thoug the TV is pushed back further.

So much of the softness is due to the panel quality vs the resolution of the panel?

Mailiang, Yes I have read stuff like that but I would have to say I see a difference. It is crazy for Kane to demand someone sit further way until they match up. Smaller/more pixels means I should be able to site CLOSER.
Kanes suggestion is like telling me to squint in one eye until it matches the other eye.

OK lets test his theory. 50" x 1.4 sets me back just under 6 feet. 43" x 1.4 puts me at a little over 5 feet


Well that worked out to exactly to what I have the TVs set at distance wise if I sit on the end of the seat!

So actually I AM seeing a difference at the proper differeneces taking accout for the size. and even another foot or two back can see the Panonsic does look sharper.

I understand the comments about the difficulty of comparing different brands. But I would also think comparing a 720 Pan vs 1080 Pan of the SAME size would also raise questions as they are different tech in each.


So i guess I am still not sure if it is the larger panel is just "better" or if the sharpness is because it it is a better resolution.

Based on the Kane quote, it would be the panel quality not the resolution difference since they are both set at their proper view distance and I can see an improvement HD shows.


BTW, I move in 2 feet I am starting to see the defects I saw on LCD in motion in faces. So I can saw some of the IMPROVENT I saw with plasma was in part due to looking at 720p TVs and the 720/1080i strreams. the dish stream better blends, even with the box set to 1080i on the 720 TV. (did not have any differnece in 720p vs 1080i set on the dish box)
I guess the matching of resolution makes a larger difference. It hought the larger TV was supposed to scale up.

Yes plasma is still better at dislaying this "junk" but now seeing that it is there on the 1080 set but harder to notice on the 720p due to less pixels, I am not so sure I want to stick with plasma.


I hope I a not confusing anyone. My main issue with switching to plasma was that LED/LCD was not really displaying network TV very well and the HD stations had a SOFT or what I say is out of focus look.
I had a size/space issue so went with 42" plasma then the 43" . I thought all my isues were fixed and curious about higher res plasma. but it does seem like some of the isuse is in part that 1080p is still going to show the defects more than the 720p. I am not sure it is worth spending more , having more weight, daytime glare, and higher energy use, less bright if it really is the dish signal quality.

What is interesting is how even with all that said, on the better broadcasts, the 1080p does look sharper. I still am not quite sure if it is in part due to a better panel or blacks or the resolution that is making the difference. Logic says more pixels it should be sharpter but with the statements reposted above it is NOT supposed to be noticed at the proper distances.

The Samsung E450 they only have 3 modes. So I calibrated with WOW and AVS and then by pesonal preference withhe Panasonic side by side in MOVIE mode.

ON the Panasonic I tried Cinema mode but thought it looke dull and dark. I prefered the CUSTOM mode.

This was something that surprised me. Why do they make MODES with different hidden specs rather than than modes all being equally able to calibrate? That is, YOu could put the same settings in Custom and Cinema and they will not be the SAME. There are hidden settings for the mode. I do enjoy that each HDMI can take different settings. I found that broadcast and blue ray are different enough to need this. However it did take me for ride of confusion since after setting to the caibration disk and then plugging in a blu ray in the othe port, I thought my settings wer reset.


I will say that I watched the latest Batman and in the jail scene the the blind man sitting against the wall talking about fear, even though the panasonic appeared darker, I could see much more detail in the stone walls on the far left. On the Samsung, it was so dark that it just looked like dark shadow. On the Panasonic you see it was a wall.

So I turned up the brightness on the Samsung and played with the black tone setting and while I coudl get it up, the detail was not there.

Again I wonder if that is in part because the Samsung is 720p. But I would guess you would say the Panasonic is just better.


Now what I notice side by side is each has its own issues with colors.

For instance, the Samsung reds and blues are HOT/vidid and the Panasonic yellow and green is hotter/vivid. On the panasonic the flesh tones were more green or yellow. I had two turn the tint down but then that makes the reds tones off like orange.
Example an and for Resse cups came up and on the Samsung it came up with the distinct orange color we know is correct but maybe it was a bit too hot/saturated however onthe Panasonic, since I was trying to make hte flesh tones less yellow (I am set on NATUAL in the color settings) the orange was not the correct color.
It is too bad they limit the settings to color and tint. My lap top has more control than these tvs.


Seems like there can be tweaking,



I have not noticed any difference in playing 720 or 1080i on either of the TVs. What I have noticed on both is more interlaced lines when fast motion but mostly on commericals.

Vic, I will take a look at the thread. With the Samung I am using the 43" just to be clear. I do not know if there is a difference in the larger E450 in quality or software adjustments.

I was only explaining how I could see more detail and in better form on the panasonic and still wondering if the difference is due to the extra size, the quality or resolution difference.
I could bump up the brightness to get those dark area details to show but at a sacrifice in look as it would then have that grayed cast more htan sharpness. The Panasonic blacks were still there yet deatail in the shadows were there. ie on the Dark Night movie the stone wall continuted almost to the end of the left side of the screen but on the other it faded to shadow black.

I like theSamsung panel but side by side did show the differences.


As for setting the red is this in the white balance section?
I did nto fully understand how to work with the "offsets" I used some posting on AVS to set it at one point. However I like the reds where they were since it was not that it was making OTHER parts look off. So my flesh tones look fine and the reds just are move vivid than on the panasoinic while the panasonic panel the greens and yellows are brighter than on the Samsung by default. I first noticed this watching side by side with weather maps.

panasonic is more limited in adjustmenst. I do not see a way to play with individual colors. Just color and tint.

I would say at first I thougtht he E450 was doing a far better job with blacks than LCD and was doing a great job with DISH netowrks crappy broadcasts.
However now seeing that in part it is that 720p plasma matches their signal better, and that I see some of the same quality issues when watching on a larger 1080p panel, that I am only fixing one issue over he other. I will loose something by sticking with 720p for Blu rays.

I could be wrong, maybe the Samsung can be calibrated to match the panasonic but I think what I am seeing from playing around, the Panasonic will display more detail while keeping the blacks.


I just did a test, calibrated to my liking, it runs at close or over 300 watts. Yes it jumps around quite a bit but it worked otu to about 2 KWH 12 ours of use.

Since I was not looking at 50" panels for my room initially, I am not sure I am sold yet on plasma for this one draw back along. If the defects in the fa720ces vanished in plasma, I would say I would gladly pay more for that but it seemed I was fooled by the 720 p panel matchign up better with the 720 plasma.

Ian,

Best Buy had two floor models of a 720 P panasonic running side by side. They told me one was calibrated and the other was not. According to them I I picked the wrong one. I guess we have our own likes bu the calibrated one looked dark washed out, whites looked gray. I see this in Cinema mode on many TVs as well, dark and not very bright. Iguess they assume cinema or movie mode, you are always going to wach in a black room. I do no see how this is the most commone viewing mode.

On the Samsung Movie mode though is the mode I got best resutls with with Standard being dim and lacked contrast and ECO mode a joke they must put in there just to get the EG rating. I have no clue how one watches TV in Eco or Standard.

At least the Samsung has more adjustments. the panasonic does not have more the tint, color and some the warm cool settings.

I do not see what the big deal is in giving consumers the access to adjust their colors and give RESET setting if they screw it up.

But really the purpose of of this topic , for me, was the weather the Panasonic is just better at displaying finer detail and if so, if that is mostly becaue the panel as more resolution , because the pixesl are larger due to larger screen or because it is just better over all. That is, if I ffound a 42" 1080p would I see some of what is in the Panasonic but lost in the 720 samsung?

Ian,
I do have some concerns that Panasonic as not any specs of the set due to ship only in weeks. If it is ready to go, why not publish the specs and features and any improvements?

I saw someplace but forget who said it, but there is a chance it will not come out.

True Ian but I would like to know what they are claiming to have improved, if anything like deeper blacks, brighter whites, lower power use, less glare, less power use, ect. I want to know if it isworth the wait.
The only thing I was able to find was it will have wifi and I think some smart features.

Yeah but my friend has a 42" LED panel with what I think is called IPS and viewing angles are not an issue from what I saw.