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NAS or Server - Page 3

post #61 of 226
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I'd get a cheaper simpler case. Good cooling and good amount of HDD is all you need. $50 or less. Antec 300 like model.

I'd get an ATX or mATX board. Whichever is cheaper. Size is important with servers. They aren't on display a d can often be hidden away. Bigger is better cause you can get more inside and it's easier to build and work with. Look for a mid ATX cheap tower at minimum.

For motherboard i I would look at an AsRock 77 board under $80.

CPU I'd get a $55 g860 3.0ghz from superbiz.

You don't need a SATA card (yet)

PSU = $19.99 Coolermaster 460 watt on sale newegg now. That's the ultra cheap option.
Otherwise perhaps a 29$ Antec neo 400 watt is next step up in quality.

You should check out my server thread. I'm about a year ahead if you. I'm going on me second rebuild. First build was an ultra cheap build get my feet wet. Now I am trying to do it right.

You can make a server for $300 easily that will give you tons of room to grow and expand.

If you want a link let me know
I am not looking to build a server. I am looking to build a nas box that also stores a mysql server and runs sab. Its not going to be used to do anything else. So a giant case to me is going to be a waste. I am looking for something to hold 5-7 drives total that I can stick behind my entertainment center and forget about it.
post #62 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Btw- in skimming this thread I see a lot of " can't" "Won"t" "beta". "Limited" etc..

All talking about NAS box limitations.

That doesn't happen when you build a server.

NAS ready made boxes are noob. They only make sense for noobs that value the set up of them more than the limited options/ performance.

There is not really a price advantage.

I'd challenge anyone post a for sale NAS box and I'll post a better server build for same price.

I am far from a noob, I have been building my own computers since the early 90's. Sometimes an appliance like unit is better, especially if you value your time over the few dollars you save.

Post a server with 5 drives, a easy to use, user friendly UI with decent plugin support (sab,sickbeard,plex, etc), USB3, dual gig lan (no realtek please), iSCSI and expandable raid 5/6. If you can, fit it in a case about 10"x10"x10"

Your target is easy the $800 Synology 1512+. Use only new parts.
http://www.amazon.com/Synology-Performance-Server-Scales-DS1512/dp/B007CFRF72/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1358526595&sr=8-1&keywords=1512%2B
post #63 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin g. View Post

The 2tb cap is a limitation of the backup technology...no one is saying you "can't use" a 3tb (or larger) drive, but WHS will bust it up into it's own partitions. And partitions that are not equal , or do not seem to make logical sense. There may be a workaround...I am not "server savvy" enough to know...YMMV
A quick google will tell you all you want to know.

Not true, and there are no workarounds or hacks required. WHS 2011 will use 3tb drives just fine. It will also format these drives without partitioning provided your motherboard supports these drives and you use GPT partitioning. What you can't do is use WHS 2011 backup software to backup a server share that is larger than 2tb. That's a big difference.

I'm currently running 5 3tb drives in WHS 2011 using Flexraid and it works just fine. Even without Flexraid it'd work, I just couldn't back up a full drive. That's not much of a limitation since I don't want a bunch of 3tb backups.
post #64 of 226
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TType85 View Post

I am far from a noob, I have been building my own computers since the early 90's. Sometimes an appliance like unit is better, especially if you value your time over the few dollars you save.

Post a server with 5 drives, a easy to use, user friendly UI with decent plugin support (sab,sickbeard,plex, etc), USB3, dual gig lan (no realtek please), iSCSI and expandable raid 5/6. If you can, fit it in a case about 10"x10"x10"

Your target is easy the $800 Synology 1512+. Use only new parts.
http://www.amazon.com/Synology-Performance-Server-Scales-DS1512/dp/B007CFRF72/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1358526595&sr=8-1&keywords=1512%2B
Yeah its a great product the price is a bit steep. thats why I was looking at the DS412+. But I may regret being stuck at the 1gb of ram and 4 drive limit.. thats the only thing holding me back. that and possibly a home built that can be just as stable with more expansion... Then comes the fact tech changes so fast I might beable to buy a NAS 2 years from now that is way faster more efficient on power and can do more... these are the thoughts in my head this past week. Previous to that was how to built the right HTPC. but that got put on the back burner now that I have a space issue.
post #65 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by djtoodles View Post

THank you for this. What is that CPU comparable too? I thought everything now adays was either atom or i3, i5 or i7.

Do I gain an advantage 1 way or another going matx or mini itx?

Also you said I dont need a sata card now... is that just because it already has 6 slots? i am guessing 1 of those needs to be used for freenas or unraid so I will be able to have 5 useable drives for storage?

The cpu posted is based on an i3 I believe. Slower clock speed... ohh well, doesn't matter for a file server. Might save some money by getting a cheaper cpu as I doubt the idle power consumption is very different.

Unraid is loaded into memory from a flash drive. One drive is used as a parity drive though. What you are left with is: 5x3tb=15tb or 5x4tb=20tb, 5x2tb=10tb. Remember you can mix drives freely, also. Unraid supports usb storage and esata so you can add more drives later via esata or usb.

Matx would save you money but there isn't a real advantage if you don't plan on ever expanding beyond 6 drives.

Now, one of my WD drives has died so it's time to start the RMA process...

Edit: The drive dying doesn't actually limit my ability to watch movies. One of my favority features.
post #66 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by djtoodles View Post

Yeah its a great product the price is a bit steep. thats why I was looking at the DS412+. But I may regret being stuck at the 1gb of ram and 4 drive limit.. thats the only thing holding me back. that and possibly a home built that can be just as stable with more expansion... Then comes the fact tech changes so fast I might beable to buy a NAS 2 years from now that is way faster more efficient on power and can do more... these are the thoughts in my head this past week. Previous to that was how to built the right HTPC. but that got put on the back burner now that I have a space issue.

My only reservation right now about the xx12+ line is the D2700 atom processor is at it's end of life. However, I don't think whatever the next generation of the processor they use is going to be a huge performance difference (like going from the atom to a i3). The D2700 atom is already real low power the big power draw comes from the drives.

I still haven't had a chance to test the speed of using mySQL on the NAS but I suspect in my setup I would be better off having it on the main HTPC's SSD dirve.
post #67 of 226
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TType85 View Post

My only reservation right now about the xx12+ line is the D2700 atom processor is at it's end of life. However, I don't think whatever the next generation of the processor they use is going to be a huge performance difference (like going from the atom to a i3). The D2700 atom is already real low power the big power draw comes from the drives.

I still haven't had a chance to test the speed of using mySQL on the NAS but I suspect in my setup I would be better off having it on the main HTPC's SSD dirve.
Well they xx12x stands for the year. they already released the 2013 line from what i can see on their website. they went away from intel on the DS413 so it cannot even run plex.
post #68 of 226
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by macks View Post

The cpu posted is based on an i3 I believe. Slower clock speed... ohh well, doesn't matter for a file server. Might save some money by getting a cheaper cpu as I doubt the idle power consumption is very different.

Unraid is loaded into memory from a flash drive. One drive is used as a parity drive though. What you are left with is: 5x3tb=15tb or 5x4tb=20tb, 5x2tb=10tb. Remember you can mix drives freely, also. Unraid supports usb storage and esata so you can add more drives later via esata or usb.

Matx would save you money but there isn't a real advantage if you don't plan on ever expanding beyond 6 drives.

Now, one of my WD drives has died so it's time to start the RMA process...

Edit: The drive dying doesn't actually limit my ability to watch movies. One of my favority features.
If the matx will save cost and can expand further might be the better option?...

what happens if the flash drive gets hosed?

Also power wise will the i3 be equiv to that? wondering if the extra cpu may be beneficial running something like plex server or increase file transfer rate as far as iops go.
post #69 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by bomberjim View Post

Not true, and there are no workarounds or hacks required. WHS 2011 will use 3tb drives just fine. It will also format these drives without partitioning provided your motherboard supports these drives and you use GPT partitioning. What you can't do is use WHS 2011 backup software to backup a server share that is larger than 2tb. That's a big difference.

I'm currently running 5 3tb drives in WHS 2011 using Flexraid and it works just fine. Even without Flexraid it'd work, I just couldn't back up a full drive. That's not much of a limitation since I don't want a bunch of 3tb backups.

I thought that is what I was trying to get accross, but thank you for the correction. As I said, I have no large drives so I am far from an expert. My goal right now is for 4 2tb drives...so I was never really worried about it.
post #70 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by TType85 View Post

I am far from a noob, I have been building my own computers since the early 90's. Sometimes an appliance like unit is better, especially if you value your time over the few dollars you save.

Post a server with 5 drives, a easy to use, user friendly UI with decent plugin support (sab,sickbeard,plex, etc), USB3, dual gig lan (no realtek please), iSCSI and expandable raid 5/6. If you can, fit it in a case about 10"x10"x10"

Your target is easy the $800 Synology 1512+. Use only new parts.
http://www.amazon.com/Synology-Performance-Server-Scales-DS1512/dp/B007CFRF72/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1358526595&sr=8-1&keywords=1512%2B


I am confused. Is this $800 without drives? Or with them ??
post #71 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by djtoodles View Post

If the matx will save cost and can expand further might be the better option?...

what happens if the flash drive gets hosed?

Also power wise will the i3 be equiv to that? wondering if the extra cpu may be beneficial running something like plex server or increase file transfer rate as far as iops go.

You buy a new flash drive and then ask for a new license key for it from lime-technology. The only time the flash drive should be doing anything is during bootup, you can actually remove it once unraid is up with no ill effect. I remove mine when I want to make changes. I'll try to do a microatx build later if I have time. Atom build if I get bored.
post #72 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I am confused. Is this $800 without drives? Or with them ??

Yes, $800 without the drives.
post #73 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I am confused. Is this $800 without drives? Or with them ??

Without.
post #74 of 226
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816101377

SuperMicro Socket 1155 - $279 (Dual INTEL LAN) COUPON CODE: 15% off Barebones servers



CPU:

http://www.superbiiz.com/landing.php?id=0bc97b49879ca7e6b738a4aa36dda39d5530dbe1ead148365f1a2880d5035923



You can even do a 3.0ghz G860 for $3 more. (I have one in my server, basically close to an i3 2100 with quicksync turned off )
http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=G860BOX

RAM- Just get some cheap. I'm not bothering to link up we all know a reasonable price for 4GB or even 8GB.

What else would you need???

WHS for $39.99 for the OS ???


Ok... so with that:

Now you can do automated backup of 10 PC's in your house, and tons more. To set that up I just needed to install the WHS Connector. The rest is automatic.
+
TV recording archiver. Automagic again. With the WHS Connector installed on my HTPCs, an add-on gets installed in WMC that manages this. I didn't have to do anything but click a couple of buttons and tick a box.
+
Dashboard. All the stuff I care about in a single app that already comes with the system.

If you own WHS, you get following unexpected benefits from Microsoft:
1. a free domain named assigned to your internet IP in the form of yourname.homeserver.com
2. a free SSL digital certificate to enabled your WHS as a HTTPS website. There are many ways to extend your WHS site functionality.

Both items normally cost you some yearly $$ to accquire otherwise.



Adding a flexraid back up option + a $10 month crash plan cloud back up option really gets things going. You have software raid back up- You can restore any failed drive and rebuild it. Adding more parity drives can increase the amount of simultaneous failures you can tolerate. Much better than a hardware raid solutions where you double your chances of a drive failure losing your data in RAID 0 - or you must use more than one drive for back up costing much more $$$$$

I'm at 30TB in my WHS server- so I can't afford another 30TB of hardware RAID drives to back up. And I don't want to lose all my media. I can back up 30TB with only 2 HDD's.

Plus Crash plan for $10 a month is a great option- and has unlimited back up.


Flexraid also adds drive pooling - but there is many other ways to get that for free also.

You have tons of future expandability and options.


You can get more serious or customize with other components that are even better than I linked- But I was trying to be 40% cheaper than your link.
post #75 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by djtoodles View Post

I am not looking to build a server. I am looking to build a nas box that also stores a mysql server and runs sab. Its not going to be used to do anything else. So a giant case to me is going to be a waste. I am looking for something to hold 5-7 drives total that I can stick behind my entertainment center and forget about it.

I guess I disagree with this. Why would you want a noisy box behind your entertainment center ??? Noise. heat. Lights flashing. Wires making a mess.

Isn't it easier to have it in an area that makes more sense. Like that closet you never use ??? Or the corner in your basement that's empty ?

Sometimes you can wall mount with a 4U mount in the basement right under the floor where the entertainment center is and just run a LAN cable up.

Everyone has a place in their home that can tolerate a small server. It's a small desktop- it's not a refrigerator.

You can go the ITX route and make a server smaller but why pay the extra $$$$ ????

If you really want it small then spend up the extra $$$ and get ITX mobo and case. I just think when you start cramming 5+ HDDS into a small case your asking for heat related failures.

HDD's failing is the #1 issue with any server or NAS box IMO.
post #76 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by macks View Post

Yes, $800 without the drives.


Almost seems too easy.
post #77 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by djtoodles View Post

If the matx will save cost and can expand further might be the better option?...

what happens if the flash drive gets hosed?

Also power wise will the i3 be equiv to that? wondering if the extra cpu may be beneficial running something like plex server or increase file transfer rate as far as iops go.

if your transcoding on the fly like plex does...

Some devices don't do all resolutions. Example: Stock APPLE TV only does 720p so you can transcode with PLEX to 720p, rather than upgrading to a crystal HD card inside it. Or- a device like tablet or smart phone... same thing. Use PLEX to transcode the resolution to something more appropriate. Often you can not stream 1080p wireless because of bitrate and bandwidth- but if your media server can crush down the resolution first before sending it then you don't hit the bottle neck of your wireless network speed- or get stutter or glitchy playback on non wired devices.

Yes you will want the CPU.

My $55 G860 3.0ghz can do it easily...
i3 is certainly more than enough. I think a G630 would do it without issue. The 2.5Ghz+ Sandy bridge dual cores are amazingly powerful at CPU power.

I recently watched a 1080p rip on my iphone in Hawaii while waiting in the airport and my WHS flexraid server is located in my home in MA. That is basically half way around the world.
That's freaking cool if you ask me- Can't really do that with a basic NAS box can you ???
post #78 of 226
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816101377

SuperMicro Socket 1155 - $279 (Dual INTEL LAN) COUPON CODE: 15% off Barebones servers



CPU:

http://www.superbiiz.com/landing.php?id=0bc97b49879ca7e6b738a4aa36dda39d5530dbe1ead148365f1a2880d5035923



You can even do a 3.0ghz G860 for $3 more. (I have one in my server, basically close to an i3 2100 with quicksync turned off )
http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=G860BOX

RAM- Just get some cheap. I'm not bothering to link up we all know a reasonable price for 4GB or even 8GB.

What else would you need???

WHS for $39.99 for the OS ???


Ok... so with that:

Now you can do automated backup of 10 PC's in your house, and tons more. To set that up I just needed to install the WHS Connector. The rest is automatic.
+
TV recording archiver. Automagic again. With the WHS Connector installed on my HTPCs, an add-on gets installed in WMC that manages this. I didn't have to do anything but click a couple of buttons and tick a box.
+
Dashboard. All the stuff I care about in a single app that already comes with the system.

If you own WHS, you get following unexpected benefits from Microsoft:
1. a free domain named assigned to your internet IP in the form of yourname.homeserver.com
2. a free SSL digital certificate to enabled your WHS as a HTTPS website. There are many ways to extend your WHS site functionality.

Both items normally cost you some yearly $$ to accquire otherwise.



Adding a flexraid back up option + a $10 month crash plan cloud back up option really gets things going. You have software raid back up- You can restore any failed drive and rebuild it. Adding more parity drives can increase the amount of simultaneous failures you can tolerate. Much better than a hardware raid solutions where you double your chances of a drive failure losing your data in RAID 0 - or you must use more than one drive for back up costing much more $$$$$

I'm at 30TB in my WHS server- so I can't afford another 30TB of hardware RAID drives to back up. And I don't want to lose all my media. I can back up 30TB with only 2 HDD's.

Plus Crash plan for $10 a month is a great option- and has unlimited back up.


Flexraid also adds drive pooling - but there is many other ways to get that for free also.

You have tons of future expandability and options.


You can get more serious or customize with other components that are even better than I linked- But I was trying to be 40% cheaper than your link.

Are those cpu's going to put out less power than an i3? They look like older tech. my C2D puts out a decent amount of power and is loud!!!. I want to avoid that like the plague smile.gif

as far as running WHS. to me it defeats the purpose of a NAS. you are adding the need for more processors and utilization than is needed. I dont need to backup PC's. everything will be on the NAS that is important smile.gif PC's get slow overtime anyway due to the lame registry so backing up to a previous state where it was already slower than a fresh format to me seems like wasted HDD space. That is just my thoughts though. furthermore a search I did just now shows that WHS will only support 2tb drives. You can put larger drives in but it will keep splitting them up into different partitions. That is a nightmare to manage!

my entire place is not hardwired. only 2 rooms are hardwired and both have wireless routers and 1 is acting as an access point. so both of those rooms the nas has to sit behind something. and if its only serving up files and fits the bill like a synology it should be pretty quiet. especially with a 5.1 sound system going.

Thanks for putting that together though.
post #79 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by djtoodles View Post

Are those cpu's going to put out less power than an i3? They look like older tech. my C2D puts out a decent amount of power and is loud!!!. I want to avoid that like the plague smile.gif

as far as running WHS. to me it defeats the purpose of a NAS. you are adding the need for more processors and utilization than is needed. I dont need to backup PC's. everything will be on the NAS that is important smile.gif PC's get slow overtime anyway due to the lame registry so backing up to a previous state where it was already slower than a fresh format to me seems like wasted HDD space. That is just my thoughts though. furthermore a search I did just now shows that WHS will only support 2tb drives. You can put larger drives in but it will keep splitting them up into different partitions. That is a nightmare to manage!

my entire place is not hardwired. only 2 rooms are hardwired and both have wireless routers and 1 is acting as an access point. so both of those rooms the nas has to sit behind something. and if its only serving up files and fits the bill like a synology it should be pretty quiet. especially with a 5.1 sound system going.

Thanks for putting that together though.

lol. No. Your very wrong.
These 1155 CPU’s are not older tech at all. They are the little brothers of the current i3’s. I used a current socket 1155 platform. They are all socket 1155 Sandy Bridge chips. They are all comparable in power to "i3"

My $55 G860 is basically the same as the i3 2100. It is a 3.0ghz dual core made from the same core chip- but has a few features disabled to differentiate it from the i3. i3 is usually $99+ and if your building a media server that does not need the more powerful HD2000, HD3000 or HD4000 graphics because it does not play back videos like a HTPC- then a G860 with only HD graphics (the big difference between the G860 and i3) is perfect for near half the cost.

It's certainly not old technology. It's as powerful as most are using to build HTPC's today. I am not sure you need to step up from a sub $40 G540 2.5ghz in a server- but stepping from 2.5ghz to 3.0ghz isn't going to cost you much. If your transcoding with PLEX it might be smart- but if your just streaming media around without transcoding it you don't need it.

That is why I listed all three options. Good, Better, even better. I use a 3570k i5 for my HTPC and a 2600k overclocked i7 in my desktop. Both are quad cores and beasty CPU’s. I just didn't see the need for more than the G860 in my server. It’s perfect value and choice for me.

Your totally wrong and noobish about this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by djtoodles View Post

as far as running WHS. to me it defeats the purpose of a NAS. you are adding the need for more processors and utilization than is needed. I dont need to backup PC's. everything will be on the NAS that is important smile.gif PC's get slow overtime anyway due to the lame registry so backing up to a previous state where it was already slower than a fresh format to me seems like wasted HDD space. That is just my thoughts though. furthermore a search I did just now shows that WHS will only support 2tb drives. You can put larger drives in but it will keep splitting them up into different partitions. That is a nightmare to manage!

A slow registry is usually because of multiple installs and uninstalls- bloating.. and fragmentation.
That is why fresh installs always feel fastest.

Trust me I am a loud proponent and advocate of this. I recommend fresh installs all the time here on AVS.

But there is a huge difference between uninstalling, or restoring to a known archived high performing back up.

I think it’s noob to uninstall or suffer issues like your describing. Having a back up that is clean and high functioning- is the perfect solution for the issue your talking about. When you install something that goes wrong or creates issue- Don’t uninstall it. Restore to before you installed it.

It’s just as fast and easy.

Sure- You can keep important stuff on the NAS like programs or media or pictures- but a back up is really more than that. It’s your exact working PC set up how you like- without the hassle of reinstalling everything from a clean install.

It’s not a waste of HDD space at all. It’s really excellent.

And in today’s age where NAS boxes and servers are multiple TB and greater- what’s 50GB worth of back up ???? That’s like one bluray rip of a long movie to put into perspective.

Most use SSD drives that are 128GB- and only 60% of that is usually full. Backing up your system is not a waste of space when you can get a 3TB Seagate 7200.14 drive for $90.

Quote:
Originally Posted by djtoodles View Post


my entire place is not hardwired. only 2 rooms are hardwired and both have wireless routers and 1 is acting as an access point. so both of those rooms the nas has to sit behind something. and if its only serving up files and fits the bill like a synology it should be pretty quiet. especially with a 5.1 sound system going.

Thanks for putting that together though.

What happens when your movie is not cranked up with 5.1 sound going?? You tolerate the noise ???

Seems like your making tons of compromises everywhere. That’s cool. Just understand it.

You could upgrade to wireless AC spec to allow for faster wireless. Or you could use powerline adapters. Or you could run some CAT6 cheap. All three of those are simple and affordable.

But if you don’t want to do something usually you can easily find a reason not to do it.
post #80 of 226
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

lol. No. Your very wrong.
These 1155 CPU’s are not older tech at all. They are the little brothers of the current i3’s. I used a current socket 1155 platform. They are all socket 1155 Sandy Bridge chips. They are all comparable in power to "i3"

My $55 G860 is basically the same as the i3 2100. It is a 3.0ghz dual core made from the same core chip- but has a few features disabled to differentiate it from the i3. i3 is usually $99+ and if your building a media server that does not need the more powerful HD2000, HD3000 or HD4000 graphics because it does not play back videos like a HTPC- then a G860 with only HD graphics (the big difference between the G860 and i3) is perfect for near half the cost.

It's certainly not old technology. It's as powerful as most are using to build HTPC's today. I am not sure you need to step up from a sub $40 G540 2.5ghz in a server- but stepping from 2.5ghz to 3.0ghz isn't going to cost you much. If your transcoding with PLEX it might be smart- but if your just streaming media around without transcoding it you don't need it.

That is why I listed all three options. Good, Better, even better. I use a 3570k i5 for my HTPC and a 2600k overclocked i7 in my desktop. Both are quad cores and beasty CPU’s. I just didn't see the need for more than the G860 in my server. It’s perfect value and choice for me.

Your totally wrong and noobish about this:
A slow registry is usually because of multiple installs and uninstalls- bloating.. and fragmentation.
That is why fresh installs always feel fastest.

Trust me I am a loud proponent and advocate of this. I recommend fresh installs all the time here on AVS.

But there is a huge difference between uninstalling, or restoring to a known archived high performing back up.

I think it’s noob to uninstall or suffer issues like your describing. Having a back up that is clean and high functioning- is the perfect solution for the issue your talking about. When you install something that goes wrong or creates issue- Don’t uninstall it. Restore to before you installed it.

It’s just as fast and easy.

Sure- You can keep important stuff on the NAS like programs or media or pictures- but a back up is really more than that. It’s your exact working PC set up how you like- without the hassle of reinstalling everything from a clean install.

It’s not a waste of HDD space at all. It’s really excellent.

And in today’s age where NAS boxes and servers are multiple TB and greater- what’s 50GB worth of back up ???? That’s like one bluray rip of a long movie to put into perspective.

Most use SSD drives that are 128GB- and only 60% of that is usually full. Backing up your system is not a waste of space when you can get a 3TB Seagate 7200.14 drive for $90.
What happens when your movie is not cranked up with 5.1 sound going?? You tolerate the noise ???

Seems like your making tons of compromises everywhere. That’s cool. Just understand it.

You could upgrade to wireless AC spec to allow for faster wireless. Or you could use powerline adapters. Or you could run some CAT6 cheap. All three of those are simple and affordable.

But if you don’t want to do something usually you can easily find a reason not to do it.

I am out of the loop on hardware so I will take a look at it a bit later when I get home.

As for the windows backup debate we will agree to disagree. All computers get slower over time regardless of what you may think. My home computer now has windows installed on it, adobe cs6 suite and spotify and its slower now than it was 6 months ago. I am just too lazy to format it. I havent installed anything else or tried to even install anything else. and i do believe it is because of the registry. Mac's also get slower over time however they take a lot longer and its usually permission issues within the OS that cause it to run slower.

We actually are running AC wireless here. I wouldnt trust AC wireless as serving up my files though. It should be the fastest component in the house IMO.

Thanks for the info on the cpu's though I will definatly look at the options a bit more. seems like i just need to make sure to buy an 1155. anyone know if there is a site that shows the power rating per cpu? also is a 300w psu enough or too much for power?
post #81 of 226
The build you posted is actually more expensive than the one I posted. You need to add flexraid to whs to get comparable features. Also, please note that it requires ECC memory.

The CPU's he posted are basically i3's minus features and the first one is minus a core.
post #82 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by djtoodles View Post

Are those cpu's going to put out less power than an i3? They look like older tech. my C2D puts out a decent amount of power and is loud!!!. I want to avoid that like the plague smile.gif

as far as running WHS. to me it defeats the purpose of a NAS. you are adding the need for more processors and utilization than is needed. I dont need to backup PC's. everything will be on the NAS that is important smile.gif PC's get slow overtime anyway due to the lame registry so backing up to a previous state where it was already slower than a fresh format to me seems like wasted HDD space. That is just my thoughts though. furthermore a search I did just now shows that WHS will only support 2tb drives. You can put larger drives in but it will keep splitting them up into different partitions. That is a nightmare to manage!

my entire place is not hardwired. only 2 rooms are hardwired and both have wireless routers and 1 is acting as an access point. so both of those rooms the nas has to sit behind something. and if its only serving up files and fits the bill like a synology it should be pretty quiet. especially with a 5.1 sound system going.

Thanks for putting that together though.

Absolutely not true concerning 3 (or 4) tb drives and WHS 2011, you're misunderstanding the limitation. You can certainly format to the full capacity (i.e. no splitting) and use 3tb drives on WHS 2011 unless your motherboard doesn't support it. Slowness is also not an issue, unless your trying to use it as a desktop as well.

I can understand your need to setup the device "behind something" because of a lack of hard-wiring, but what makes you think a NAS is necessarily quieter? The CPU/drives need to be cooled and noise is a factor of the fans. The hardware's the same whether it's called a NAS or a server. Often NAS's are quite loud because of the small form factor. If they're not loud, then they've sacrificed some cooling. Hardware is hardware, there is no free lunch.

You can certainly use a NAS in your situation, but a server would also work fine and probably provide a better/cheaper solution in the long run. If you need a small form factor, there are cases/motherboards that fit the bill. You can even use a full blown raid 5 card with WHS 2011, but raid 5 is generally overkill for home environments. I really think you're looking at this the wrong way. What do you think a NAS does that a server doesn't?
post #83 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

You sir are correct.

But you can do drive pooling without using flexraid. There is many free alternatives.

I do think FLEXRAID is worth the cost- since it give you parity back up and the ability to recover a failed drive or rebuild a failed drive. That's a lot more than just drive pooling, and certainly an appropriate feature for a media server.

I think the advantages of drive pooling + software raid+ Parity Back up are a major reason why a WHS server is much more appropriate than a NAS box.

What do you do with a NAS box to back up your media ????

I know you can run hardware raid- but that takes twice the amount of HDD's and adds tons of cost while cutting your storage space in half.

Sure it might make sense for a few drives- but what if your media library grows. ???

I have 14 HDD's in my server now. I certainly would not want to buy 14 more HDD's to back them up with hardware raid.

NAS boxes are starter options- and when you outgrow it your screwed.


On the ECC memory issue- You can get the model that does not have that BTW..... Or spend the extra $$ and get error recovery / correction and prevent data rot with ECC. It's not a deal killer either way.

I was not challenging your build. I was posting to the guy who challenged me.

I meant you need to add flexraid to get comparable features to unraid.
post #84 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by macks View Post

The build you posted is actually more expensive than the one I posted. You need to add flexraid to whs to get comparable features. Also, please note that it requires ECC memory.

The CPU's he posted are basically i3's minus features and the first one is minus a core.


You sir are correct.

But you can do drive pooling without using flexraid. There is many free alternatives.

I do think FLEXRAID is worth the cost- since it give you parity back up and the ability to recover a failed drive or rebuild a failed drive. That's a lot more than just drive pooling, and certainly an appropriate feature for a media server.

I think the advantages of drive pooling + software raid+ Parity Back up are a major reason why a WHS server is much more appropriate than a NAS box.

What do you do with a NAS box to back up your media ????

I know you can run hardware raid- but that takes twice the amount of HDD's and adds tons of cost while cutting your storage space in half.

Sure it might make sense for a few drives- but what if your media library grows. ???

I have 14 HDD's in my server now. I certainly would not want to buy 14 more HDD's to back them up with hardware raid.

NAS boxes are starter options- and when you outgrow it your screwed.


On the ECC memory issue- You can get the model that does not have that BTW..... Or spend the extra $$ and get error recovery / correction and prevent data rot with ECC. It's not a deal killer either way.

I was not challenging your build. I was posting to the guy who challenged me.


I could build a simpler cheaper server for $250 from all new parts still using the 1155 platform. But he wanted dual INTEL LAN... so I figured why not make my point with a true Supermicro branded motherboard build and dual INTEL LAN.

You can even step down to LGA775 builds for sub $200. Or there is that $299 SUPERMICRO alternative to a NORCO 4220 thread... that gets you a whole server too.

Tons of options.

You and I are both right. The NAS idea being cheaper or better is the only wrong thing in this thread.

NAS = simplicity. Small. Easy. It's decidedly for someone who values this over performance, or value- or expandability and upgrade path options. NAS is limited and not cheap, whereas real servers are affordable and highly customizable. You can go really cheap- or you can go really high end - and anywhere in between.
post #85 of 226
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

You sir are correct.

But you can do drive pooling without using flexraid. There is many free alternatives.

I do think FLEXRAID is worth the cost- since it give you parity back up and the ability to recover a failed drive or rebuild a failed drive. That's a lot more than just drive pooling, and certainly an appropriate feature for a media server.

I think the advantages of drive pooling + software raid+ Parity Back up are a major reason why a WHS server is much more appropriate than a NAS box.

What do you do with a NAS box to back up your media ????

I know you can run hardware raid- but that takes twice the amount of HDD's and adds tons of cost while cutting your storage space in half.

Sure it might make sense for a few drives- but what if your media library grows. ???
you should be doing a raid 5 at the minimum on any solution as well as have a parity. we just implemented a SAN at my work 8 months ago and we have just under a peta of storage (should hit that mark in the next few months after our next purchase) and to this date our slowest tier running storage which is running sata drives (3tb) only 2 have gone bad. That is over 3 server racks filled top to bottom all 48U with 3tb disc trays and 2 have gone bad. they are setup as a 6+1 per tray.

So chances of losing anything with 1 hot spare in a small home setup is going to be VERY rare. thats a gamble I would take. I backup all my important docs and photos online so really anything else I lose is not a end of the world scenario.

with unraid or freenas you cant do raid5 out of the gate?
post #86 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by macks View Post

I meant you need to add flexraid to get comparable features to unraid.

Right. Makes sense.

FLEXRAID is better IMO... but it's a paid application.

It's quite excellent and highly appropriate for a media server, but is an added cost.

I think it's worth it. But others might not.

You don't have to use FLEXRAID. It's only one of many options.

There is many applications like snapraid, unraid, and even drive pooling applications too.

FLEXRAID just does it all very well, and is stable and easy to set up. I like that it combines the features of parity backup- with drive pooling- as both are nice.
post #87 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by djtoodles View Post

you should be doing a raid 5 at the minimum on any solution as well as have a parity. we just implemented a SAN at my work 8 months ago and we have just under a peta of storage (should hit that mark in the next few months after our next purchase) and to this date our slowest tier running storage which is running sata drives (3tb) only 2 have gone bad. That is over 3 server racks filled top to bottom all 48U with 3tb disc trays and 2 have gone bad. they are setup as a 6+1 per tray.

So chances of losing anything with 1 hot spare in a small home setup is going to be VERY rare. thats a gamble I would take. I backup all my important docs and photos online so really anything else I lose is not a end of the world scenario.

with unraid or freenas you cant do raid5 out of the gate?

I think your wrong. Hardware raid is just more complicated and a PITA. Recovery is not fun either. Nor is rebuilding.

I agree drive failures are rare- but they will happen.

Who invests this kind of money and does not expect to keep it long enough to experience a drive failure ???

If the drive fails inside one year, inside two years, or 3 years down the road... I am not sure it matters. It is certain they all will fail. It's nice to slap a new drive in it's place and click "rebuild" and watch that lost drive come back to you.

FLEXRAID just makes more sense. Because you can turn off your PC, take that drive out and install it in any machine or USB dock and read the data from it without issue. That is a huge underated value of FLEXRAID and software RAID IMO.

It makes upgrading or changing things around- or any hardware failure a lot easier to deal with. If you lose a RAID card, A RAID controller, or a HDD's it's much more pain with hardware raid.

If your MOBO or CPU fails... same story. With Flexraid- as long as your drive works your good. If your drive fails you can rebuild it.

What's not to like about that in a home server?

Home server should be easy to use- affordable- and upgradable. They should be very tolerant of failures and also be highly reliable. Your mixing industrial server applications with home media server applications.

If your going high end- your better off with a ZFS platform over FLEXRAID- but that is not the majority of users here. It's overkill.
post #88 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by macks View Post

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131841 $99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116407 $79

Here is a mini-itx mobo with 6 sata and a 35W processor since you are concerned with efficiency. This will be much faster than the various NAS solutions mentioned above.


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352027 $89

A lot of people complain about finding a psu that will fit in the Lian Li case. This one looks very similar but fits a "real" ATX PSU.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151086 $39

Seasonic has a high reputation for making some of the best PSU's. This is an extremely efficient PSU.

Memory: Doesn't matter much spend less than $20.

Preconfigured unraid plus flash drive: $89

Total $410

Going with a micro-atx config would bring this down a bit. Going with an atom config would bring this down a bit too(might lose sata ports though).

There are many much cheaper ways to do this.

I just really noticed this now... and it was a good option that was a bit less upgradable and "serious" than mine.

If you went this route you could also replace the ASUS board with an Asrock board for $20 savings.

You could also replace your $80 CPU with the $40/50/58 options I listed from superbiz that are better. Saving another $30.

I would replace the Seasonic PSU for a seasonic variant like the Antec NEO for $29 (it's on sale every other week)

Case is nice- but your right going with matx will save you $$$ additionally and add more upgrade paths. I'd do that personally.

ITX is cute but it's less applicable and functional as mATX IMO.
post #89 of 226
Thread Starter 
post #90 of 226
Quote:

Asrock = $15 cheaper but Asus is a great brand. I own several ASUS and ASROCKS. I like Asrock better for a value board. They are stable, cheaper and they reboot much faster than ASUS.

I like ASUS for a high end board for overclocking. They usually have the best feaures for enthusiasts. My main desktop is an Asus Deluxe. ($279) My server and HTPC both use Z77
Asrocks that are under $95. The Asrocks are every bit as good as my $279 Asus, and in many ways better as a normal motherboard.



I linked earlier better options. Or should I say a cheaper place to buy these parts.

G860 for $57 is a nice choice. It's on par with i3 for half the cost.
I have one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by djtoodles View Post

Case

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112300

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0085RR0TY?tag=intercept-kb-20

I suppose I could rethink it all and just throw an i5 in it and use it as a file server & HTPC. however I think it would be a loud beast at that point. And I dont think an HTPC case can fit 7 drives.

Case is personal choice. I will refrain.

Both your links look really nice.

You might want to check out a DEFINE XL if you can tolerate the size lots more room to grow and easier to build in.


I am just giving advice but your links all are valid options. I can't say I have much issue with your choices. Well done.
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