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NAS or Server - Page 4

post #91 of 226
1/18/13 at 12:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bomberjim View Post

Absolutely not true concerning 3 (or 4) tb drives and WHS 2011, you're misunderstanding the limitation. You can certainly format to the full capacity (i.e. no splitting) and use 3tb drives on WHS 2011 unless your motherboard doesn't support it. Slowness is also not an issue, unless your trying to use it as a desktop as well.

I can understand your need to setup the device "behind something" because of a lack of hard-wiring, but what makes you think a NAS is necessarily quieter? The CPU/drives need to be cooled and noise is a factor of the fans. The hardware's the same whether it's called a NAS or a server. Often NAS's are quite loud because of the small form factor. If they're not loud, then they've sacrificed some cooling. Hardware is hardware, there is no free lunch.

You can certainly use a NAS in your situation, but a server would also work fine and probably provide a better/cheaper solution in the long run. If you need a small form factor, there are cases/motherboards that fit the bill. You can even use a full blown raid 5 card with WHS 2011, but raid 5 is generally overkill for home environments. I really think you're looking at this the wrong way. What do you think a NAS does that a server doesn't?

Thanks for clearing this up.

I meant to comment on this too and forgot.

YES YOU CAN USE 3TB DRIVES WITH WHS.

I HAVE 8 INSTALLED IN MY SERVER. All formatted as standard single partition and sector size. Nothing special you need to do.

WHS certainly can take 3TB drives and even 4TB drives without issue. It's only old hardware that can not. Any new motherboard can tolerate it without issue.
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post #92 of 226
1/18/13 at 12:18pm
You might want to check out this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1409654/assassin-server-project/0_40














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post #93 of 226
1/18/13 at 12:23pm















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post #94 of 226
1/18/13 at 12:27pm














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post #95 of 226
1/18/13 at 12:30pm



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post #96 of 226
1/18/13 at 12:30pm
That was a good build. One of the better I have seen from all new parts around here.

^
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post #97 of 226
1/18/13 at 12:34pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Asrock = $15 cheaper but Asus is a great brand. I own several ASUS and ASROCKS. I like Asrock better for a value board. They are stable, cheaper and they reboot much faster than ASUS.

I like ASUS for a high end board for overclocking. They usually have the best feaures for enthusiasts. My main desktop is an Asus Deluxe. ($279) My server and HTPC both use Z77
Asrocks that are under $95. The Asrocks are every bit as good as my $279 Asus, and in many ways better as a normal motherboard.
I linked earlier better options. Or should I say a cheaper place to buy these parts.

G860 for $57 is a nice choice. It's on par with i3 for half the cost.
I have one.
Case is personal choice. I will refrain.

Both your links look really nice.

You might want to check out a DEFINE XL if you can tolerate the size lots more room to grow and easier to build in.


I am just giving advice but your links all are valid options. I can't say I have much issue with your choices. Well done.
If I am going to build it.. it gets ASUS smile.gif. I dont trust another brand. Even if they are cheaper and just as reliable. ASUS and Intel chips are always a must for me. even if the equivalent is "better".

I really wish I didnt go looking at cpu's... because for 100 more I can be on an i5 quad core and have a beast of an HTPC + file server. they have some HTPC cases that can fit 6-7 drives as well. can I run win8 and use the raid software package? I can get a free copy of w8 pro since we are not upgrading here and have some copies.
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post #98 of 226
1/18/13 at 12:35pm
You can check out my server rebuild thread here:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1438027/what-is-a-good-value-server-board-and-cpu-for-a-20tb-whs-flexraid-server/360_40

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Here is some pics from my phone as I was playing with the server yesterday.








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post #99 of 226
1/18/13 at 12:35pm















I am in process of swapping from a desktop tower build to a server build in a NORCO chassis.

I wanted the 20 hot swap bays ..... lol
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post #100 of 226
1/18/13 at 12:35pm
Budget build:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128564 $50

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103888 $39

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151086 $40

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163223 $40

Bad reviews based on un-needed front usb.

With memory that is $189 +$89 for unraid plus w/usb is $278

You can save some money by buying unraid plus seperate from the usb stick. If you have an old usb stick with a proper serial id then you can subtract $20.

You can also always use unraid in it's basic form for free... Up to 3 hdd's including parity.

For a budget build AMD offers more sata ports for the price and the cpu is $10 cheaper. Add $30 - $40 for an equivalent intel build.
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post #101 of 226
1/18/13 at 12:38pm
But Intel G540 for $40 is just a way better dual core CPU. Not worth the trade off. Stay socket 1155 Intel and get the CPU cheaper from superbiz I linked earlier.

You can get a sata card 2 port SATA 3 for $9.
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post #102 of 226
1/18/13 at 12:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by djtoodles View Post

If I am going to build it.. it gets ASUS smile.gif. I dont trust another brand. Even if they are cheaper and just as reliable. ASUS and Intel chips are always a must for me. even if the equivalent is "better".

I really wish I didnt go looking at cpu's... because for 100 more I can be on an i5 quad core and have a beast of an HTPC + file server. they have some HTPC cases that can fit 6-7 drives as well. can I run win8 and use the raid software package? I can get a free copy of w8 pro since we are not upgrading here and have some copies.

3570k is $169 at Microcenter. You get $40 off a Z77 Asus motherboard as the combo.

Might make sense step up to the Asus board with integrated INTEL LAN so you don't need to buy an INTEL NIC like I did in my server build thread ($20)

Intel LAN = best.
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post #103 of 226
1/18/13 at 12:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by djtoodles View Post

If I am going to build it.. it gets ASUS smile.gif. I dont trust another brand. Even if they are cheaper and just as reliable. ASUS and Intel chips are always a must for me. even if the equivalent is "better".

I really wish I didnt go looking at cpu's... because for 100 more I can be on an i5 quad core and have a beast of an HTPC + file server. they have some HTPC cases that can fit 6-7 drives as well. can I run win8 and use the raid software package? I can get a free copy of w8 pro since we are not upgrading here and have some copies.

Might be worthwhile to look at storage spaces if you have a copy of w8 pro. I can report xbmc works fine under win8, still waiting for my wmc keys. Last I heard mediaportal didn't work at all.

By what you just said my above build is worthless to you... I'm not posting anymore builds, takes too much time. frown.gif
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post #104 of 226
1/18/13 at 1:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

3570k is $169 at Microcenter. You get $40 off a Z77 Asus motherboard as the combo.

Just got the new ad from them today, they upped the 3570k back to $189
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post #105 of 226
1/18/13 at 2:06pm
Mfusick, nice server builds smile.gif

While I like WHS, one of the nicest parts of using a quality NAS appliance is that everything it is designed to do it does well. WHS is also EOL. It is still available but you will probably only see bug fixes from here on out. It is built on Server 2008 R2 I believe so it is a pretty solid base. Microsoft now has their $425 Storage Server 2012 to replace it.

You do need to watch what order you install stuff. I had SAB installed before Flexraid and had to edit the flexraid configuration to use a different HTTP port (easy enough for me to do, maybe not for someone else). Using flexraid on WHS I ran in to issues trying to use the built in server backup, I could not back up the server to the pool. Setting Sickbeard and Couchpotato up as services that starts with windows and without having to log in is a pain. All of these are little issues that can be resolved but still come down to spending hours tweaking to get just the right setup.

Edit: Also thinking out loud, are there many "free" iOS/Android apps for getting to WHS photos, music, video, etc? I am sure there are.
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post #106 of 226
1/18/13 at 2:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TType85 View Post

Mfusick, nice server builds smile.gif

One is his, the other he's pimping around the forum today was Assassin's Goliath build for Flocko smile.gif
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post #107 of 226
1/18/13 at 2:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Slayer View Post

One is his, the other he's pimping around the forum today was Assassin's Goliath build for Flocko smile.gif

Then nice build Assassin! smile.gif
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post #108 of 226
1/18/13 at 2:19pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

3570k is $169 at Microcenter. You get $40 off a Z77 Asus motherboard as the combo.

Might make sense step up to the Asus board with integrated INTEL LAN so you don't need to buy an INTEL NIC like I did in my server build thread ($20)

Intel LAN = best.
the 3570k was the one i was looking at because its the intel 4000. Whats the asus model with the intel card?
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post #109 of 226
1/18/13 at 2:21pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by macks View Post

Might be worthwhile to look at storage spaces if you have a copy of w8 pro. I can report xbmc works fine under win8, still waiting for my wmc keys. Last I heard mediaportal didn't work at all.

By what you just said my above build is worthless to you... I'm not posting anymore builds, takes too much time. frown.gif
Thanks for posting it though. It was a nice cheap build however I just dont do amd frown.gif.
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post #110 of 226
1/18/13 at 2:24pm
Thread Starter 
So I guess I have 3 choices.....

Unraid or Free nas setup thats a low end build.

win8 with flex raid on an i5 to be a Fileserver + HTPC

or just buy a synology.... Thoughts?
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post #111 of 226
1/18/13 at 2:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by djtoodles View Post

So I guess I have 3 choices.....

Unraid or Free nas setup thats a low end build.

win8 with flex raid on an i5 to be a Fileserver + HTPC

or just buy a synology.... Thoughts?
That i5 is complete overkill for a htpc or a nas. I would personally keep them separate. The intel 4000 doesn't really give you any advantage that wouldn't be better served elsewhere. It's your money spend it how you want I guess...
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post #112 of 226
1/18/13 at 2:50pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by macks View Post

That i5 is complete overkill for a htpc or a nas. I would personally keep them separate. The intel 4000 doesn't really give you any advantage that wouldn't be better served elsewhere. It's your money spend it how you want I guess...
the i5 is not much more than the i3 and it should help do the transcoding for plex no? I have read that a i3 cant do 1080P transcoding for plex. I wasent planning to do transcoding to anything but 1 tv. But maybe thats not a bad idea anymore.

if its going to create a lot of sound and power then that would be a bummer.
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post #113 of 226
1/18/13 at 2:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by djtoodles View Post

the i5 is not much more than the i3 and it should help do the transcoding for plex no? I have read that a i3 cant do 1080P transcoding for plex. I wasent planning to do transcoding to anything but 1 tv. But maybe thats not a bad idea anymore.

if its going to create a lot of sound and power then that would be a bummer.

You have read inaccurate and misleading information. Its rampant on the internet.
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post #114 of 226
1/18/13 at 3:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by djtoodles View Post

the i5 is not much more than the i3 and it should help do the transcoding for plex no? I have read that a i3 cant do 1080P transcoding for plex. I wasent planning to do transcoding to anything but 1 tv. But maybe thats not a bad idea anymore.

if its going to create a lot of sound and power then that would be a bummer.
As long as you are transcoding to mpeg2 it shouldn't matter that much. When you can build an atom box for a little over $100(who doesn't have an old dead laptop to pull a hdd from?) I have trouble finding a good reason to ever transcode...
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post #115 of 226
1/18/13 at 3:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by djtoodles View Post

the i5 is not much more than the i3 and it should help do the transcoding for plex no? I have read that a i3 cant do 1080P transcoding for plex. I wasent planning to do transcoding to anything but 1 tv. But maybe thats not a bad idea anymore.

if its going to create a lot of sound and power then that would be a bummer.

The following processors can all transcode 1080p

E8400 - I've used this
G550 - Reported by Assassin (and Flocko I believe)
G630 - Also reported by Assassin
i3 sandy or ivy
i5 3570k - I use this one now smile.gif

While I currently have a 3570k, and know that it's complete overkill, I like having one powerful computer in the house. This is my all in one Server, Plex, XBMC, emulating, workstation playground running W7 pro. I've yet to add a graphics card for gaming, because I really never game anymore. It's more than overkill, but when running at low utilization it doesn't draw more power and it isn't loud.

There's a lot of misconception about higher end stuff, but if nothing else in the house is high end then go that route. Having one thing do all of this with an i5 will still use less power than having a NAS/server separate from an HTPC

Also, for power consumption the Asus boards vary a lot from best to worst. Gigabyte is usually more efficient
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post #116 of 226
1/18/13 at 3:16pm
Some people actually test things and spend their valuable time doing it...

assassinhtpcblog.com/?p=320
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post #117 of 226
1/18/13 at 3:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

You sir are correct.

But you can do drive pooling without using flexraid. There is many free alternatives.

I do think FLEXRAID is worth the cost- since it give you parity back up and the ability to recover a failed drive or rebuild a failed drive. That's a lot more than just drive pooling, and certainly an appropriate feature for a media server.

I think the advantages of drive pooling + software raid+ Parity Back up are a major reason why a WHS server is much more appropriate than a NAS box.

What do you do with a NAS box to back up your media ????

I know you can run hardware raid- but that takes twice the amount of HDD's and adds tons of cost while cutting your storage space in half.

Sure it might make sense for a few drives- but what if your media library grows. ???

I have 14 HDD's in my server now. I certainly would not want to buy 14 more HDD's to back them up with hardware raid.

NAS boxes are starter options- and when you outgrow it your screwed.


On the ECC memory issue- You can get the model that does not have that BTW..... Or spend the extra $$ and get error recovery / correction and prevent data rot with ECC. It's not a deal killer either way.

I was not challenging your build. I was posting to the guy who challenged me.


I could build a simpler cheaper server for $250 from all new parts still using the 1155 platform. But he wanted dual INTEL LAN... so I figured why not make my point with a true Supermicro branded motherboard build and dual INTEL LAN.

You can even step down to LGA775 builds for sub $200. Or there is that $299 SUPERMICRO alternative to a NORCO 4220 thread... that gets you a whole server too.

Tons of options.

You and I are both right. The NAS idea being cheaper or better is the only wrong thing in this thread.

NAS = simplicity. Small. Easy. It's decidedly for someone who values this over performance, or value- or expandability and upgrade path options. NAS is limited and not cheap, whereas real servers are affordable and highly customizable. You can go really cheap- or you can go really high end - and anywhere in between.

What is one of the free software that does drive pooling?

Stepping down to the 775 setup or that norco alternative can be cheap but you will pay for it in electricity. I am constantly in Tier 4 which is 30c kWh in the winter months.

The 412+ that the OP was looking at can be expanded with either 2 or 5 more bays using an expansion unit. Performance wise I have not seen a difference between running what I run on the 1812+ vs on my local machine. Most of the stuff happens in the background and if something takes an extra 30 sec to unrar, I won't notice it. If you get in to transcoding video all that goes out the door, Atom CPU doesn't have the power.

The NAS option is not cheaper, but depending on what you are looking to do you can't say it's not better. A leatherman has a screwdriver in it, but I wouldn't want to put my computer together with it.

My thoughs for the OP:
NAS = simplicity at extra cost. Low power draw, small size.
WHS = cheaper but more tweaking needed. The sky (and your wallet) is the limit.
HTPC/Server All-in-one = good way to do it if you need a HTPC. More functions in one box, less power draw and physical space than having multiple computers. LanLi makes some nice mATX cases that hold 7 drives, but they are not cheap. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112300

The one downside to having the HTPC and server AIO setup is if you are doing changes, rebooting, restarting things and you have a SO trying to listen to music or watch videos you may be in for some grief.
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post #118 of 226
1/18/13 at 3:27pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Slayer View Post

The following processors can all transcode 1080p

E8400 - I've used this
G550 - Reported by Assassin (and Flocko I believe)
G630 - Also reported by Assassin
i3 sandy or ivy
i5 3570k - I use this one now smile.gif

While I currently have a 3570k, and know that it's complete overkill, I like having one powerful computer in the house. This is my all in one Server, Plex, XBMC, emulating, workstation playground running W7 pro. I've yet to add a graphics card for gaming, because I really never game anymore. It's more than overkill, but when running at low utilization it doesn't draw more power and it isn't loud.

There's a lot of misconception about higher end stuff, but if nothing else in the house is high end then go that route. Having one thing do all of this with an i5 will still use less power than having a NAS/server separate from an HTPC

Also, for power consumption the Asus boards vary a lot from best to worst. Gigabyte is usually more efficient
do you think I can effecienctly use w7 or w8 with flexraid for up to 6 drives and just keep the os on an ssd?
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post #119 of 226
1/18/13 at 3:30pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

You have read inaccurate and misleading information. Its rampant on the internet.

I can tell you right now a 2-3 year old i7 struggles to transcode to 2 devices at once and causes stutter on a cat6 1gb network. Thats with direct storage to the i7. I have read several on the plexapp forums of people with i3's that expierance the same issue. It can handle 720p fine but big 1080p bluray rips stutter. Can you provide video proof of a 20+ gb bluray mkv playing fine over plex at the highest playback setting for transcoding on an i3 or lesser hardware? I have seen first hand it stutter smile.gif

No offense but i am not going to believe a blog site you run and write the articles on where you are trying to overcharge people hundreds of dollars for low end equipment for high end prices on what is the best options. Nobody else here has an agenda they are offering options and opinion's. Thanks for the input though.
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post #120 of 226
1/18/13 at 3:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by djtoodles View Post

I can tell you right now a 2-3 year old i7 struggles to transcode to 2 devices at once and causes stutter on a cat6 1gb network. Thats with direct storage to the i7. I have read several on the plexapp forums of people with i3's that expierance the same issue. It can handle 720p fine but big 1080p bluray rips stutter. Can you provide video proof of a 20+ gb bluray mkv playing fine over plex at the highest playback setting for transcoding on an i3 or lesser hardware? I have seen first hand it stutter smile.gif

I didn't do it with plex, but using Airvideo I was able to play "The Fifth Element" blu-ray rip (I ripped to MKV, no re-encoding) to both my ipad and iphone at the same time and my i3 2100 was sitting at about 80% cpu usage.
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